Trump Signs First Anti Abortion Legislation Today

[Norm Lenhart]

I've carried on this discussion with most of the folks here; folks who I may disagree with but respect.

You?  Not worth the bother.

Avoidance...just as I said above.

[txradioguy]

How is advocating for individual liberty "imposing my morality on others"?

You have a real spineless way of avoiding saying exactly what it is you're advocating for.  I asked you yesterday how it is you equate murder with women's "Liberty".

Naturally you avoided giving an answer.

You dress it up in code words and Libspeak.  Not sure whether that's to make you feel better about the grisly procedure you support and defend or it's jsut the Liberl in you coming out and you can't help yourself.

Abortion is not Liberty.  Not when you're taking away the Liberty of of the baby in the womb.  That's cold blooded murder.  No noe of the Liberal code words you use will change that fact.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

The only one here that sounds ridiculous is you.  The only one here that doesn't see how stupid you sound...is you.

[Cyber Liberty]

Go away - you contribute nothing of substance to this discussion.   

Your liberal arrogance moves to new heights.  Who the Hell do you think you are, telling people to go away?  The owner?

[txradioguy]

This analogy is absurd.   Is it fair for me to say that you advocate for the slavery of women?

talk about sounding absurd.

No woman should be forced by the state to reproduce.     

This is quite a pretzel you twist yourself into in order to advocate and support abortion.

You absolve women of any responsibility for keeping their legs closed or using birth control in order to prevent pregnancy...but want to give them and them alone responsibility for murdering the unborn baby that was the result of a choice they made but you claim they have zero responsibility for.

[Norm Lenhart]

Your liberal arrogance moves to new heights.  Who the Hell do you think you are, telling people to go away?  The owner?

That reaction makes me think I hit too close to home. And he doesn't want to fess up to WHY he's so insistant on support for liberal positions on abortion.

Oh well. People can read his nonsense and decide for themselves.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

I have stated exactly what I believe.  A fetus, if left alone, will develop and be born as a human being.

So a baby that won't be born for a week isn't human yet, but a the preemie that was born a month ago is. I don't follow. It either is human or it isn't. At what exact moment does it become human to you?

If you take the fetus DNA to be analyzed they will say it is human...

[TomSea]

Individual Liberty clearly can be defined as taking precautions before another life is at stake.

Personal freedoms also mean personal responsibilities.

I posted in the lifenews forum how Goldwater apparently was a pro-choicer. At the same time, things were a lot different back then, we seem to know more now.

[Cyber Liberty]

That reaction makes me think I hit too close to home. And he doesn't want to fess up to WHY he's so insistant on support for liberal positions on abortion.

Oh well. People can read his nonsense and decide for themselves.

You know the old saying about when you're taking Flak.

[txradioguy]

Personal freedoms also mean personal responsibilities.

This can't be repeated often enough.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

talk about sounding absurd.

This is quite a pretzel you twist yourself into in order to advocate and support abortion.

You absolve women of any responsibility for keeping their legs closed or using birth control in order to prevent pregnancy...but want to give them and them alone responsibility for murdering the unborn baby that was the result of a choice they made but you claim they have zero responsibility for.

Well if we can't force women into the slavery of carry the child to term. How can we force women into slavery that have toddlers they don't want anymore? If they let the child be borne we thrust them into years of slavery. Clearly to preserve a women's right to live as they want we have to let them kill the toddler too. Just a modest proposal @Jazzhead

BTW: I've never met a women who was expecting a fetus, or felt a 'lump of tissue' move for the first time. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Individual Liberty clearly can be defined as taking precautions before another life is at stake.

Personal freedoms also mean personal responsibilities.

I posted in the lifenews forum how Goldwater apparently was a pro-choicer. At the same time, things were a lot different back then, we seem to know more now.

Barry changed a lot of his positions as he got close to passing on.  I think his later wife was a heavy influence on him, not for the better.

[txradioguy]

Well if we can't force women into the slavery of carry the child to term. How can we force women into slavery that have toddlers they don't want anymore? If they let the child be borne we thrust them into years of slavery. Clearly to preserve a women's right to live as they want we have to let them kill the toddler too. Just a modest proposal @Jazzhead

BTW: I've never met a women who was expecting a fetus, or felt a 'lump of tissue' move for the first time. 

Between 4 kids and now my first grandchild...I never once heard a doctor or a nurse say "lets listen for the fetus' heartbeat" or "congratulations you're the father/grandfather of a healthy boy/girl fetus

[Cyber Liberty]

Well if we can't force women into the slavery of carry the child to term. How can we force women into slavery that have toddlers they don't want anymore? If they let the child be borne we thrust them into years of slavery. Clearly to preserve a women's right to live as they want we have to let them kill the toddler too. Just a modest proposal @Jazzhead

BTW: I've never met a women who was expecting a fetus, or felt a 'lump of tissue' move for the first time. 

He seems to think that because we don't prosecute mothers who abort for murder, then it's not murder.  That doesn't seem like a very good test to me.  It also ignores the fact that we do prosecute people for fetal murder.  Someone mentioned the example of Lacy Peterson, and it's a good one.   Drunk driving resulting in the death of a fetus (even if the mother lives) is another one.

[Norm Lenhart]

Clearly to preserve a women's right to live as they want we have to let them kill the toddler too. Just a modest proposal @Jazzhead

Mord macht frei

[INVAR]

or deliberately mischaracterizing your opponent's position (calling me an advocate of "murder").

You are an advocate for murder - just because you think an infant in the womb is not a human being and 'not viable' does not negate that you advocate for the killing of that infant - which is murder.

This is a decision for the woman to make, not the state. 

Then likewise, when we determine that my mother-in-law is no longer 'viable'  - we can "abort" her too and call it a 'choice', because - I mean, why should we be forced by the state to care for an Alzheimer's patient when it wold benefit everyone if we just 'aborted' her?

That's a conservative position, rooted in the American tradition of individual liberty and the guarantees of same by the Constitution.   

No it's not.  You justify the killing of infants in the womb out of convenience for irresponsible behavior.  You advocate only for the liberty of the mother to 'choose' whether or not to kill her baby, you do not advocate for the liberty of the infant or the father.

So you are hypocritical at best.

[txradioguy]

Every single time JazzHead gets pinned into a corner with his liberal positions...his go to phrase is about how we're "imposing our morality" on others.

This topic isn't the first time he's used that phrase.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Yo @Jazzhead riddle me this: An expectant mother gets in a car accident and the stress triggers early labor while while the Mom is on the way to the planned parenthood clinic. The pair are rushed to the hospital and the baby is born a preemie is it a child and is the mom stuck with it? Why or why not?

L

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Every single time JazzHead gets pinned into a corner with his liberal positions...his go to phrase is about how we're "imposing our morality" on others.

This topic isn't the first time he's used that phrase.

When it comes to defending the basic human rights of those who can't fight back darn tootin I am. See tagline.

[Norm Lenhart]

Every single time JazzHead gets pinned into a corner with his liberal positions...his go to phrase is about how we're "imposing our morality" on others.

This topic isn't the first time he's used that phrase.

Ducks quack and people that so freely use the language of liberals are liberals. I will always marvel at why so many people are resistant to such obvious truths. (Not you, just generally)

[Cyber Liberty]

Ducks quack and people that so freely use the language of liberals are liberals. I will always marvel at why so many people are resistant to such obvious truths. (Not you, just generally)

I find it encouraging that our culture still attaches some stigma to leftists, and they feel the need to verbally fence around the language.

[Silver Pines]

I have stated exactly what I believe.  A fetus, if left alone, will develop and be born as a human being.

@Jazzhead

What is it before it comes out of the womb?  A chicken?

[Norm Lenhart]

I find it encouraging that our culture still attaches some stigma to leftists, and they feel the need to verbally fence around the language.

Unless I read you wrong, and apologies if I did, I don't find it encouraging at all. I think the word games are the primary reason the left took and hold the power/influence they do. I'm old school. Call a thing by what it is. The gentle soft shoe/high road got us to this position. We will never reverse it until we stop doing that/stop being 'nice' to people that are our moral/philosophical/other enemies.

Think of it like Obama's refusal to name Islam in Terrorism discussions. Many of us do exactly the same with leftists. We 'can't do that' because we are trained that it 'might offend' and God knows today that offending someone is a crime worse than murdering an unborn child to leftists.

I get that many don't want the grief of arguing with liberals. There is no need for those people to argue. I say call them what their actions prove them to be and let them scream.

[Cyber Liberty]

Unless I read you wrong, and apologies if I did, I don't find it encouraging at all. I think the word games are the primary reason the left took and hold the power/influence they do. I'm old school. Call a thing by what it is. The gentle soft shoe/high road got us to this position. We will never reverse it until we stop doing that/stop being 'nice' to people that are our moral/philosophical/other enemies.

Think of it like Obama's refusal to name Islam in Terrorism discussions. Many of us do exactly the same with leftists. We 'can't do that' because we are trained that it 'might offend' and God knows today that offending someone is a crime worse than murdering an unborn child to leftists.

I get that many don't want the grief of arguing with liberals. There is no need for those people to argue. I say call them what their actions prove them to be and let them scream.

I think you read me incorrectly.  When leftists no longer have to hide behind the language, that's an indication that our culture has accepted their notions 100%.  It's encouraging to me they have to lie about what they believe, albeit frustrating as all get-out.

[Norm Lenhart]

I think you read me incorrectly.  When leftists no longer have to hide behind the language, that's an indication that our culture has accepted their notions 100%.  It's encouraging to me they have to lie about what they believe, albeit frustrating as all get-out.

AH! Gotcha. My mistake. I agree fully. It is indeed encouraging they have to lie.

[Hoodat]

That question isn't as academic as it may sound at first. 

JH had better pray his children are more enlightened when he gets to be 92 and suffering from Dementia, as my father is.  Oh, I could not possibly contemplate anything others may find to be a great idea, like knocking the old coot off.

When life is devalued, such possibilities are readily contemplated.  The same Obama who champions the right to kill a live baby outside of the womb - 'accidentally' born during a botched abortion procedure - also champions death panels for the elderly.