Russia was trying to help Donald Trump win election, says CIA in secret assessment

[Smokin Joe]

Yeah but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Syria now has the latest export models of the BMP and the T-84 in their inventory when the dust settles in Syria.

I just keep thinking back to the first ever kill of an M1A1 in combat...it was done by an AT missile that according to experts around the globe the Iraqi's didn't have...the Kornet...must have been why there were Soviet military advisers in Baghdad two weeks before we went across the berm in 2003.

Proxy wars have always been an opportunity to try out new toys...
Our side manages to do it too (Stingers to the Muj back when, before we stepped into that tar pit). They'll have what the soviets want them to have. How good that is depends on whether the Soviets trust them, too.

[txradioguy]

Proxy wars have always been an opportunity to try out new toys...
Our side manages to do it too (Stingers to the Muj back when, before we stepped into that tar pit). They'll have what the soviets want them to have. How good that is depends on whether the Soviets trust them, too.[/b]

Two interesting asides on what I bolded.

AQ has what's left of the Muj stinger stockpile.  As of 2011 they hadn't been able to use them because the batteries were dead...however they were actively seeking out ways to either modify the batteries from the SA7 or find otehr battery packs that can be wired to the Stingers.

I'm guess that we'll know they were successful when we start hearing about our A-10's or other attack aircraft getting show down while on a CAS mission.


I knew guys when I was in the 24th ID that had been in the first Gulf War that talked about how the Russians screwed the Iraqis on their T-72 tanks that the RG were using....especially since the 25MM HE on the Bradley's was punching holes in the turret armor.

Turns out that the Russians had filled the space between the two layers of steel armor...where the reactive stuff was supposed to go...with trash and sand and anything they could stuff in there to make the tank weigh what it was supposed to weigh.   

[Smokin Joe]

Two interesting asides on what I bolded.

AQ has what's left of the Muj stinger stockpile.  As of 2011 they hadn't been able to use them because the batteries were dead...however they were actively seeking out ways to either modify the batteries from the SA7 or find otehr battery packs that can be wired to the Stingers.

I'm guess that we'll know they were successful when we start hearing about our A-10's or other attack aircraft getting show down while on a CAS mission.

Keep them off of eBay....

I knew guys when I was in the 24th ID that had been in the first Gulf War that talked about how the Russians screwed the Iraqis on their T-72 tanks that the RG were using....especially since the 25MM HE on the Bradley's was punching holes in the turret armor.

Turns out that the Russians had filled the space between the two layers of steel armor...where the reactive stuff was supposed to go...with trash and sand and anything they could stuff in there to make the tank weigh what it was supposed to weigh.   

You sure the Russians didn't farm out the turret armor to the Chinese? I have little doubt they looked good--until they didn't.

[musiclady]

@sneakypete that is such a load of crap I can't even believe you were dumb enough to hit send on it.

But then I guess when you're as deep into BDS as you are...the ends justify the means no matter how offensive you have to be.

If you had any shred of decency you'd apologize to @musiclady for that.

He can't apologize.   He really believes the filthy, delusional crap he posts about me.

It's some kind of sickness, I think.

But thanks for coming to my defense, and the defense of truth, @txradioguy

It's nice to know there are real men on this forum.

(I should probably report him, but I just feel sorry for him).

[HonestJohn]

@sneakypete

this is worth watching.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Kjp9N4mlo

Infowars.

Proof this is already fake... and likely Russian propaganda.

[HonestJohn]

My take on the Syrian problem is pretty simple. First, Assad, no matter what we think of him, is the duly elected president of a sovereign country. Since the mass destabilization effort carried out by the Muslim Brotherhood and sympathizers on governments around the Mediterranean, including Libya and Egypt, which may or may not have had help from the US State Department under Hillary, Syria has been beset with 'rebel factions' trying to seize a country critical to pipeline transport of petroleum and petroleum products from the Middle East to Europe.
That Obama, whose efforts include one dead ambassador, two dead former SEALs, and a host of others including Mummar Khadaffi (who had been relatively well behaved since he gave up his WMDs) and the deposition of Hosni Mubarak, supported the destabilization of yet another government in the region was enough to give me pause.
That friends of Hillary's 'assistant' were emplaced in Egypt (Mursi--Muslim Brotherhood connection) during this destabilization effort (and later removed from office by the locals) indicated to me that there was indeed a power play in the region, but to benefit one faction seeking to dominate the region. Other hotspots of unrest occurred during the period.
When the media pick a boogeyman, they don't let go, and the question, not of whether WMD (Chemical weapons) were being used, but by whom, arose. Adamant claims by the Obamites that Assad's government was the perpetrator by both the MSM and the Obama Administration again gave me pause.
Recall, if you will, that the WMDs attributed to Saddam were transported into Syria using Russian trucks. Aside from the interest in pipeline corridors, the Russians may be interested in keeping those assets from falling into hands that will ensure they surface in Russia and satellite states where there are heavy Russian interests, among other places in the West.
The line in the sand is between the Muslims of the MB and other organizations which hate the west and Western Civilization, including the Russians, despite the general differences between our form of government and theirs. It is difficult to maintain a statist hold on a people when you have theocratic terrorists trying to pry that control from you, just as it is difficult to balance the liberty that should be inherent in our system of government with the amount of surveillance needed to thwart terrorism.

For either system, and those in between, the advance of Islamism is a bad deal, and the region is rife with that. However, under Assad, Christians were tolerated and not lined up and beheaded for their faith. Being the tough guy in that region is the way to retain power, and has always been the way to keep the squabbling tribal and other factions in line.

With the incredible disinformation campaigns out there, especially in support of the actions of Obama and Hillary (as SoS), even the difficulties in getting the skinny on Benghazi, I would not doubt that there is a lot of anti-Assad agitprop out there being pumped by the Western Media that is simply untrue. I have witnessed with a local issue how lies can, through repetition and bombardment by media, become commonly accepted as true, even though those closer to the situation know them to be false.

So the question arises of whether, in this instance, Putin is telling more truth than Obama, who helped destabilize the region. Who would you trust more? At least Putin didn't promise I could keep my doctor or my insurance (both gone).

Assad is a dictator who took the reins of power after his father died.  His 'election' was as much a sham as Saddam's or Kim Jong-Eun's.

[Smokin Joe]

Assad is a dictator who took the reins of power after his father died.  His 'election' was as much a sham as Saddam's or Kim Jong-Eun's.

Mummar Khadaffi was no saint either. Both were typical 'strong man" types who kept their respective populations in line through iron fisted policy. I'm not debating that, nor am I lauding it, I'm just saying with those populations in those areas, it is effective.
One of the effects of the "Arab Spring" series of destabilized governments was the wholesale slaughter of Christians in those countries. Something which was not happening in Syria.
We don't particularly like him, he is not a 'nice guy', we may not agree with how he came to power, but he is their President. We have more reason to see Kim Jong-Eun as a threat than Assad, but we're playing paddycake with the North Koreans, while Obama was all hot to trot to topple another Mediterranean regime. Recall, the American People pretty much just said "No.".

Between the behaviour of the US State Department and decisions made in re the disposition of American Troops in Iraq, I believe it may be possible that Obama & Co. were trying to enable IS, and eliminating Assad would have worked toward that end. The Russians stepped into the relative vacuum we left by not supporting Assad (not saying we should have, nor should we have even been involved, much less talking of opposition), and improved their hegemony in the region while using that to operate against IS, which will eventually threaten the relative stability of the former Soviet 'stans. Talk of deposing Assad left him little choice but to side with the one group who could promise some semblance of 'protection' from US intervention.

YMMV.

[HonestJohn]

Mummar Khadaffi was no saint either. Both were typical 'strong man" types who kept their respective populations in line through iron fisted policy. I'm not debating that, nor am I lauding it, I'm just saying with those populations in those areas, it is effective.
One of the effects of the "Arab Spring" series of destabilized governments was the wholesale slaughter of Christians in those countries. Something which was not happening in Syria.
We don't particularly like him, he is not a 'nice guy', we may not agree with how he came to power, but he is their President. We have more reason to see Kim Jong-Eun as a threat than Assad, but we're playing paddycake with the North Koreans, while Obama was all hot to trot to topple another Mediterranean regime. Recall, the American People pretty much just said "No.".

Between the behaviour of the US State Department and decisions made in re the disposition of American Troops in Iraq, I believe it may be possible that Obama & Co. were trying to enable IS, and eliminating Assad would have worked toward that end. The Russians stepped into the relative vacuum we left by not supporting Assad (not saying we should have, nor should we have even been involved, much less talking of opposition), and improved their hegemony in the region while using that to operate against IS, which will eventually threaten the relative stability of the former Soviet 'stans. Talk of deposing Assad left him little choice but to side with the one group who could promise some semblance of 'protection' from US intervention.

YMMV.

No disagreement here.

I just didn't want to see any false legitimacy granted to Assad.

[Smokin Joe]

No disagreement here.

I just didn't want to see any false legitimacy granted to Assad.

Oh no. He's a Sonofabitc but he's their sonofabitch, and we really should not go messing around in sovereign nations without casus bellli  or invitation. Instead between the press and saber rattling at him, we drove him into the Soviet Russian penumbra.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete that is such a load of crap I can't even believe you were dumb enough to hit send on it.

But then I guess when you're as deep into BDS as you are..

@txradioguy

"BDS"? You really are a programmed Bush-Bot,ain't ya? I bet you dream at night about being reinstated at FR so you can feel the comfort of being back in the cult hive at the Mother Ship.

[sneakypete]

Yeah I undertand about the whole "the enemy you know" concept.

But Putin uses his "anti-Islam" fight as a guise to re-establish power from Moscow in countries like the Stans where Islam is prevalent.

@txradioguy

You may have noticed,or not,that Putin and Russia have a few "stans" located either within their borders or right on the very edge. They have been dealing with this crap a lot longer than we have,and have had more problems with them than we have.

[sneakypete]

Infowars.

Proof this is already fake... and likely Russian propaganda.

@HonestJohn

Yes,it is. Thanks for posting it.

I think we are at the point now where if anyone told the truth about anything happening in the Muddle East,everybody on all sides would go into shock.

[sneakypete]

Assad is a dictator who took the reins of power after his father died.  His 'election' was as much a sham as Saddam's or Kim Jong-Eun's.

@HonestJohn

So what? How is any of that a legitimate concern of the US government? Is Syrian now a US state or Congressional District,and nobody told me about it?

[sneakypete]

Mummar Khadaffi was no saint either. Both were typical 'strong man" types who kept their respective populations in line through iron fisted policy.

@Smokin Joe

Seems to me those are the only kind of rulers that get any respect or last longer than a week in the Muddle East. It's a cultural/tribal thing.

[geronl]

Two interesting asides on what I bolded.

AQ has what's left of the Muj stinger stockpile.  As of 2011 they hadn't been able to use them because the batteries were dead...however they were actively seeking out ways to either modify the batteries from the SA7 or find otehr battery packs that can be wired to the Stingers.

I'm guess that we'll know they were successful when we start hearing about our A-10's or other attack aircraft getting show down while on a CAS mission.

I am pretty sure (and hope) most of our aircraft can defeat those old-style Stingers.

[HonestJohn]

@HonestJohn

So what? How is any of that a legitimate concern of the US government? Is Syrian now a US state or Congressional District,and nobody told me about it?

I answer this here:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,237209.msg1167160.html#msg1167160

[txradioguy]

I am pretty sure (and hope) most of our aircraft can defeat those old-style Stingers.

I'd give our pilots right now a 50/50 chance.

[sneakypete]

I answer this here:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,237209.msg1167160.html#msg1167160

@HonestJohn

I'm pretty much in agreement with your evaluations,but still don't see how this is any real business of America.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy

You may have noticed,or not,that Putin and Russia have a few "stans" located either within their borders or right on the very edge. They have been dealing with this crap a lot longer than we have,and have had more problems with them than we have.

Unless they were dealing with Islam during the late 18th amd early 19th Century...the only ones that have been dealing with radical Islam longer than the US is France and England.

[sneakypete]

Unless they were dealing with Islam during the late 18th amd early 19th Century...the only ones that have been dealing with radical Islam longer than the US is France and England.

@txradioguy

The only time before the Boy Jorge administration that the US had problems with Islam was when we were fighting the Barbary Pirates. The Russians have pretty much been having problems with Islam since some guys called Mongols decided to pay them a visit around 1221. They stayed there for around 250 years,and ran things.

More recently the Russians have had major problems with a Russian Republic named Chechnya. Are you seriously going to try to claim the US problems with Islam,which basically started during the Boy Jorge administration were more serious than either of those?

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy

The only time before the Boy Jorge administration that the US had problems with Islam was when we were fighting the Barbary Pirates. The Russians have pretty much been having problems with Islam since some guys called Mongols decided to pay them a visit around 1221. They stayed there for around 250 years,and ran things.

More recently the Russians have had major problems with a Russian Republic named Chechnya. Are you seriously going to try to claim the US problems with Islam,which basically started during the Boy Jorge administration were more serious than either of those?

You're kidding right?  You can't seriously believe that the only other time we've had to deal with Radical Islam after the Barbary Pirates was during the Bush Administration.

IF you really believe that you show a stunning lack of knowledge of world history and the U.S. involvement with radical Islam.


Oh...and the Mongols...yeah they are Asian...mainly Chinese and definitely NOT Muslim.

[Smokin Joe]

@txradioguy

You may have noticed,or not,that Putin and Russia have a few "stans" located either within their borders or right on the very edge. They have been dealing with this crap a lot longer than we have,and have had more problems with them than we have.

Ayup. And they don't piddle around. They'll gas the whole theater, or pull a Beslan on them, but when they are done the lucky terrorists ones will already be dead. I bet they aren't squeamish about 'waterboarding' and will move on to more advanced techniques of information extraction.

[jpsb]

Infowars.

Proof this is already fake... and likely Russian propaganda.

IDK, if you google Eva Bartlett there are tons of articles and she appears to be exactly what she claims to be. An independent journalist/human rights activist from Canada.

[sneakypete]

You're kidding right?  You can't seriously believe that the only other time we've had to deal with Radical Islam after the Barbary Pirates was during the Bush Administration.

IF you really believe that you show a stunning lack of knowledge of world history and the U.S. involvement with radical Islam."
@txradioguy

Ok,educate me,then.


"Oh...and the Mongols...yeah they are Asian...mainly Chinese and definitely NOT Muslim."

Have you ever been to Russia and tried to explain that to their descendants? BTW,"Muslim" isn't a ethnic group/race.

[rodamala]

I just opened my browser to look up how I am going to fix the POS headlights on my '04 Dodge Ram, and blasting me in the face is the headline,

"U.S. Officials: Putin Personally Involved in U.S. Election Hack"
 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-officials-putin-personally-involved-in-us-election-hack/ar-AAlzZQI?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE07DHP

I am just absolutely amused how these communist wordsmiths insist on spinning a message to insinuate that Putin was directly involved in election fraud and that the process of casting ballots by U.S. voters was somehow compromised and we need to put Al Gore in the Whitehouse.

I swear, after I get these headlights fixed I am going to go find the first liberal I can and punch them in the face... just for shits and giggles.