Author Topic: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law  (Read 26571 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #350 on: November 18, 2016, 03:31:22 am »
Slavery lasted 300 years, it was in our country at birth. I guess now I know it was okay because it was settled law.

You don't see a difference between a law that suppresses liberty, and one that extends it? 

The peaceable community's law is never settled when it comes to oppression.  But a liberty extended attracts its constituents. 
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Offline TomSea

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #351 on: November 18, 2016, 03:34:28 am »
You don't see a difference between a law that suppresses liberty, and one that extends it? 

The peaceable community's law is never settled when it comes to oppression.  But a liberty extended attracts its constituents.

I think I can agree with this; but in this instance, Roe V. Wade seemed to be mentioned as "choice".  In that, liberty would be suppressed to the unborn.

I think Trump and a lot of people see the "life" issue as carrying more weight. At the least, our government should not be giving any funds to abortion and so on.

Offline TomSea

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #352 on: November 18, 2016, 03:35:11 am »
Take it up with Donald. He's the guy thats good with 'settled law'.

So is Donald wrong?

As said, Trump is smart enough to not pick a fight with the LGBT lobby.

That would be a distraction to everyone.

Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #353 on: November 18, 2016, 03:39:09 am »
You don't see a difference between a law that suppresses liberty, and one that extends it? 

The peaceable community's law is never settled when it comes to oppression.  But a liberty extended attracts its constituents.


marriage cant be extended to this not quipped for it SCreW the law Common sense TRUMPS the law!!!
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Offline goodwithagun

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #354 on: November 18, 2016, 03:44:28 am »
1. If you don't know that Baptists, some at least, Fundamentalists, see drinking and dancing as sins, you sure haven't been around.

2. Trump is not the only person to have multiple marriages, I understand it is quite common.  But I guess he makes a good scapegoat to pop off at someone.

I was raised Baptist, coolottes and all. Ironically I married a good Catholic boy and with him had three Catholic babies. I'm now a proud 1.5 year old Catholic. What's your point?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #355 on: November 18, 2016, 03:59:02 am »
You don't see a difference between a law that suppresses liberty, and one that extends it?

What law?  I don't see any law here.  All I see are five Supreme Court Justices forcing their personal moral preference on the rest of the nation while due process, equal protection, and self-governance are tossed atop the pyre.

Before this ruling, we had law.  We had the citizens of a state governing themselves within the confines of Amendment XIV.  We had equal protection.  Personal preference played no role.

After the ruling, personal preference has been injected forcing equal protection out the door, since it is only the personal preference of five tyrants that is allowed at the expense of everyone else's. 
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #356 on: November 18, 2016, 03:59:52 am »
As said, Trump is smart enough to not pick a fight with the LGBT lobby.

That would be a distraction to everyone.

What you said was "Slavery lasted 300 years, it was in our country at birth. I guess now I know it was okay because it was settled law."

When it's the right fight, and this is, it doesn't matter who you pick it with. Unfortunately your pragmatism both rules out understanding that and prolongs the liberalism in control of America.

Online DB

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #357 on: November 18, 2016, 04:07:22 am »
As said, Trump is smart enough to not pick a fight with the LGBT lobby.

That would be a distraction to everyone.

And you don't think they said the same thing when slavery was legal?

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #358 on: November 18, 2016, 04:10:06 am »
And you don't think they said the same thing when slavery was legal?
That fight they picked over slavery turned out to be a four-year, extremely bloody civil war and a decade-long, tension-filled "reconstruction" in which the South was basically coerced into adopting the 13th through 15th Amendments in exchange for self-government.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #359 on: November 18, 2016, 04:10:47 am »
It's like the Bible says, if you commit one sin, you've committed them all.

Drinking, dancing are sins to a lot of fundamentalists; we are left with the question as to whom legislates morality. Some things are obviously not acceptable such as stealing and so on.

Offline mirraflake

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #360 on: November 18, 2016, 03:52:42 pm »


All the legal aspects you believe homosexuals are excluded from are available in different forms, be it trusts or other documents.

Gays cannot pass their estate to their partner tax free unless they are married. No trust or legal document allows it. Period

@thackney

Offline SirLinksALot

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #361 on: November 18, 2016, 04:44:53 pm »
Gays cannot pass their estate to their partner tax free unless they are married. No trust or legal document allows it. Period


Well, I am sure the law can be changed to accomodate for that without having to change the definition of marriage.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #362 on: November 18, 2016, 04:58:22 pm »
Well, I am sure the law can be changed to accomodate for that without having to change the definition of marriage.

To me is sounds like a simple excess of governance period.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #363 on: November 18, 2016, 05:37:47 pm »
Gays cannot pass their estate to their partner tax free unless they are married.


Neither can straight people.


No trust or legal document allows it. Period

@thackney

There are many ways to avoid estate taxes that do not involve marriage.
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Offline thackney

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #364 on: November 18, 2016, 05:37:58 pm »
Gays cannot pass their estate to their partner tax free unless they are married. No trust or legal document allows it. Period

I thought there are ways to place your into a trust or other legal entity such that the entity continues to exist and hold the wealth outside of death, regardless of the relationship, children, business partner, etc...  I will take your word I am wrong.  My net worth is below the level of inheritance tax so I've never researched it.

That said, as I stated before, I support civil unions that give the legal status to same sex couples as heterosexual couples. 

Also I see inheritance tax as an abuse of governmental power and should not exist for anyone.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #365 on: November 18, 2016, 05:39:45 pm »
Gays cannot pass their estate to their partner tax free unless they are married. No trust or legal document allows it. Period

@thackney


Really? Civil unions didn't do that?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #366 on: November 19, 2016, 02:06:26 am »

Really? Civil unions didn't do that?

I believe the problem was at the federal level.    The feds should have acted proactively and granted anyone in a state-sanctioned civil union the full rights of a spouse under the Internal Revenue Code.   That would have muted the equal protection argument,  and caused marriage equality advocates to have to argue something more ephemeral than the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in taxes.   Which they did, successfully, in the pivotal California Supreme Court opinion,  which in my view is the case that first articulated why gay marriage was inevitable.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #367 on: November 19, 2016, 01:47:30 pm »
I believe the problem was at the federal level.    The feds should have acted proactively and granted anyone in a state-sanctioned civil union the full rights of a spouse under the Internal Revenue Code.   That would have muted the equal protection argument,  and caused marriage equality advocates to have to argue something more ephemeral than the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in taxes.   Which they did, successfully, in the pivotal California Supreme Court opinion,  which in my view is the case that first articulated why gay marriage was inevitable.

Not the Feds job. Thisnis clearly a state issue. See 9th and 10th Amend!ents.

And again...there is NOT any kind of Equal Protection violation.

Stop lying.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #368 on: November 19, 2016, 02:27:10 pm »

I support civil unions that give the legal status to same sex couples as heterosexual couples. 

Also I see inheritance tax as an abuse of governmental power and should not exist for anyone.


I'm good with this. In fact I think social security survivor benefits should go to a chosen beneficiary rather than the beneficiaries chosen by the state. I know my mother hated the idea of her current husband getting anything and she hoped to outlive him so he wouldn't get anything.

My mother would have divorced the guy years ago but again the federal and state governments interfered and created a situation that kept them married and estranged for nearly 20 years. Michigan's no fault divorce law means my mother would have forced her to sell everything she owned and give him half. (The man never had a job or paid a bill the whole time they were married and he robbed her blind to pawn things off to get high).

The state again steps in where they don't belong and dictates that the spouse gets 1/3 despite my mother's will saying he deserves nothing. Fortunately he has managed to screw himself with his excitement to seize everything and has likely lost any right to the rest that he had.

Point being, these problems are all rooted in the state interference (And my mother marrying a turd)

Offline INVAR

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #369 on: November 19, 2016, 05:32:44 pm »
You don't see a difference between a law that suppresses liberty, and one that extends it?   


There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Proverbs 14:12

Proverbs 16:25

But a liberty extended attracts its constituents.

Homosexual marriage is not liberty.

It's LICENSE.

Big difference.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #370 on: November 22, 2016, 07:18:29 pm »
Not the Feds job. Thisnis clearly a state issue. See 9th and 10th Amend!ents.

It certainly is with respect to the Internal Revenue Code.  That case that secured marriage equality stemmed directly from a widow's inability to exclude her spouse's inheritance from federal estate tax.  If the feds had acted to recognize state-sanctioned marriages and civil unions under the Tax Code, the SCOTUS may never have acted.       

Quote
And again...there is NOT any kind of Equal Protection violation.

Stop lying.

We have a difference of opinion.   That's not "lying".   And the courts back me up, not you.   That's also not a lie.     
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #371 on: November 22, 2016, 07:21:56 pm »


Homosexual marriage is not liberty.

It's LICENSE.

Big difference.

Malarkey.  A gay couple that wants to marry must make the same commitment that you have with your spouse -  'til death (or the divorce court) do us part. 

Marriage is an institution for legal recognition of the family.  A gay couple has as much right to that recognition as you do.

How God feels about it is irrelevant.   
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Offline SirLinksALot

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #372 on: November 22, 2016, 07:24:59 pm »
Malarkey.  A gay couple that wants to marry must make the same commitment that you have with your spouse -  'til death (or the divorce court) do us part. 

Marriage is an institution for legal recognition of the family.  A gay couple has as much right to that recognition as you do.

How God feels about it is irrelevant.

How about the feelings and deeply held beliefs of devout Christians? Are they or should they be irrelevant?

Offline ABX

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #373 on: November 22, 2016, 07:25:05 pm »

Homosexual marriage is not liberty.

It's LICENSE.

Big difference.

All marriage in relation to the government contract of marriage is license.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
« Reply #374 on: November 22, 2016, 07:27:02 pm »
Malarkey.  A gay couple that wants to marry must make the same commitment that you have with your spouse -  'til death (or the divorce court) do us part. 

Marriage is an institution for legal recognition of the family.  A gay couple has as much right to that recognition as you do.

How God feels about it is irrelevant.

How God feels about a religious covenant is irrelevant?  Well...ok then.