GOP President-Elect Donald Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law

[Jazzhead]

I didn't call them perverts.  Stop putting words in my mouth.  Your problem with this issue is you're too close to the subject.

My apologies for that, TRG.   The term was used in the thread discussion, but not by you.   Am I too close to the subject?   Well, millions of folks know gay couples well and think it's wrong to treat them as second class citizens.   The woman who won the SCOTUS decision had several hundred thousand dollars in taxes at stake.   A failure to recognize marriage equality causes real people real tax dollars,  and it's within the power of government to rectify that.   And it has nothing to do with "morality".

  Sure, the culture has changed,  and in many ways not for the better.  If you ask me,  I think the real cancerous cultural problem is promiscuity and unplanned pregnancies among straight folks.   So speak out against the culture -  but don't penalize productive, responsible citizens who marry to underscore their COMMITTMENT, not their promiscuity.   

And once again I will ask you...since you've ignored the question a couple times...please cite to me what Constitutional right gays are being denied?

And I keep on telling you -  the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.   It applies to and controls this matter.  You deny it.   We simply disagree - and a century of court precedent agrees with me that equal protection applies to far more than former slaves.    It is our strongest bulwark against the arbitrary power of government.   

Marriage is not a right.  You are wanting to bastardize something that has nothing to do with gay "rights" and give them a protection that I'm not afforded.

You've always had the protection -  why are you so selfish?    What does it cost you?   

I want MY constitutional "right" to marry.

You do not have the right to be shielded from the mere sight of cultural change.   Your neighbors can marry, and it's no skin off your nose.  [/quote] 

Where do I go to get redress?

There's room for good folks to respect each others' differences and sensibilities.   The law should reflect the good faith exercise of  liberty, religious and otherwise.   

If you object to homosexuality than exercise your right to speak out.  But don't insist the law elevate your values so as to arbitrarily deny another his right to fair treatment by the state.   

[Hoodat]

And I keep on telling you -  the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

Bullshit already.  We already had equal protection before the court decided to legislate from the bench.

[txradioguy]

Bullshit already.  We already had equal protection before the court decided to legislate from the bench.

Thank you!

[TomSea]

I thought the good book said, to give unto Caesar what is Caesar.

Another idea is just to get 'marriage' out of the government's hands.

Who knows, maybe in 8 years of a Republican presidency, the pendulum will eventually swing the other way.

[thackney]

There is no Constitutional right to marry,  whether to one person or several.   But as it turns out,  the law provides for civil marriage between two individuals, and conveys benefits and protections for those who agree to its obligations.  It is, in essence, a unique and extremely valuable form of contract.   That the contract is limited to two individuals gives no right to demand that it be extended to polygamy.   But since it is extended to two adult individuals, who are presumed to be in a sexual relationship,  it must be extended on the same basis to two adult individuals of the same sex as well as two adult individuals of the opposite sex.   That's the essence of equal protection. 

I appreciate the response, but I cannot agree.

I see marriage as a unique pairing of a man and a woman.  I can accept civil unions between individuals.  I would like to separate the religious ceremony from the legal status.  I know pastors with this idea and don't care to be agent of the state.

[TomSea]

That's beautiful and all, but still takes away nothing from the fact that Donald Trump is a New York liberal.  His policies prove it - policies that you continue to ignore no matter how many times they are brought up.

I'll go with ex-Reagan Staffers, Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich and many other luminaries, medal of honor winners and so on if one is going to be cynical.

It's beautiful and all to hear a condescending attitude, but I don't want to sit around and do nothing.

If Trump appointed Cruz to some position, that is because Trump won. If he and Pence cut the abortion rate down, that is because they were elected.

Again, Trump never legislated abortion into law like Reagan, his record is better than Romney's.

Oh, someone who hasn't passed any bills or held real leadership roles like Ted Cruz, no real record of accomplishment, I guess, his record is much better.

[DB]

I'll go with ex-Reagan Staffers, Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich and many other luminaries, medal of honor winners and so on if one is going to be cynical.

It's beautiful and all to hear a condescending attitude, but I don't want to sit around and do nothing.

If Trump appointed Cruz to some position, that is because Trump won. If he and Pence cut the abortion rate down, that is because they were elected.

Again, Trump never legislated abortion into law like Reagan, his record is better than Romney's.

Oh, someone who hasn't passed any bills or held real leadership roles like Ted Cruz, no real record of accomplishment, I guess, his record is much better.

You do realize that abortion is "settled law" too. So by that standard Trump will do nothing.

[TomSea]

You do realize that abortion is "settled law" too. So by that standard Trump will do nothing.

Settled Law may not have a superficial meaning we all may see it is.

John Roberts:

Roe v. Wade is more than settled as precedent
SEN. SPECTER [as read into the record by Sen. Feinstein]: “Judge Roberts, in your confirmation hearing for the circuit court you testified: ‘Roe is the settled law of the land.’ Do you mean settled for you, settled only for your capacity as a circuit judge, or settled beyond that?”

ROBERTS: “Well, beyond that. It’s settled as a precedent of the court, entitled to respect under principles of stare decisis. And those principles, applied in the Casey case, explain when cases should be revisited and when they should not. And it is settled as a precedent of the court, yes.“

SPECTER: ”You went on to say then, ‘It’s a little more than settled. It was reaffirmed in the face of a challenge that it should be overruled in the Casey decision, so it has added precedental value.’“

ROBERTS: ”I think the initial question for the judge confronting an issue in this area, you don’t go straight to the Roe decision. You begin with Casey, which modified the Roe framework and reaffirmed its central holding.“

One could call Roe V. Wade settled law, however Trump said he would work to unfund planned parenthood if they perform abortions and he may also enable the Mexico City policy immediately too, which prohibits US funds from funding overseas abortions.

To call Roe v. Wade as settled law is also being a bit cynical, Slavery was settled law too.

Pence is the most pro-life Republican ever on the ticket especially if one includes actual accomplishments.

A Trump Administration: Social Policy Fiats on Day One

1. Access to Birth Control
Defunding Planned Parenthood

Replacing the Mexico City Policy

http://www.thirdway.org/memo/a-trump-administration-social-policy-fiats-on-day-one

I look for Trump to act on this.

[Jazzhead]

I see marriage as a unique pairing of a man and a woman.  I can accept civil unions between individuals.  I would like to separate the religious ceremony from the legal status.  I know pastors with this idea and don't care to be agent of the state.

I absolutely agree!   Religious marriage is something quite different from civil marriage, which is a bundle of legal rights, benefits and obligations.  The latter must be extended consistent with the Constitution.  A pastor who solemnizes, or refuses to solemnize,  a civil marriage in the name of the Creator is in no way an agent of the state.   

[TomSea]

That's beautiful and all, but still takes away nothing from the fact that Donald Trump is a New York liberal.  His policies prove it - policies that you continue to ignore no matter how many times they are brought up.

Hoodat, we get it,

In the Primaries, Tennessee, Arkansas, North and South Carolina, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama voted for Trump.

So, you say those states voted for a liberal. Got it.

Was a conservative on the ballot?

[DB]

Settled Law may not have a superficial meaning we all may see it is.

John Roberts: One could call Roe V. Wade settled law, however Trump said he would work to unfund planned parenthood if they perform abortions and he may also enable the Mexico City policy immediately too, which prohibits US funds from funding overseas abortions.

To call Roe v. Wade as settled law is also being a bit cynical, Slavery was settled law too.

Pence is the most pro-life Republican ever on the ticket especially if one includes actual accomplishments.

http://www.thirdway.org/memo/a-trump-administration-social-policy-fiats-on-day-one

I look for Trump to act on this.

Look, I don't think law is anymore "settled" than science. But according to your guy, gay marriage is settled law and yet abortion isn't... No contradiction in your mind at all?

[DB]

I absolutely agree!   Religious marriage is something quite different from civil marriage, which is a bundle of legal rights, benefits and obligations.  The latter must be extended consistent with the Constitution.  A pastor who solemnizes, or refuses to solemnize,  a civil marriage in the name of the Creator is in no way an agent of the state.

Actually the state version was civil union. Not marriage. Words have meaning. Marriage is a very old word with a specific meaning that you are trying to redefine.

[Frank Cannon]

Hey! Anyone know what Trumps position on gay marriage is?

I can't find anything on the site about it.

[Hoodat]

That's beautiful and all, but still takes away nothing from the fact that Donald Trump is a New York liberal.  His policies prove it - policies that you continue to ignore no matter how many times they are brought up.

Hoodat, we get it,

In the Primaries, Tennessee, Arkansas, North and South Carolina, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama voted for Trump.

So, you say those states voted for a liberal. Got it.

Was a conservative on the ballot?

Let's review it again, shall we?

Trump's position on abortion - he favors federal subsidies for the abortion industry.  LIBERAL

Trump's position on Obamacare - he favors insurance mandates.  LIBERAL

Trump's position on commerce - he opposes free trade.  LIBERAL

Trump's position on property rights - he supports Kelo 100%.  MORE LIBERAL THAN BERNIE SANDERS

Trump's position on taxes - Trump believes higher tax rates stimulate economic growth - LIBERAL

Trump's position on stimulus - Trump believes that putting $1 trillion in the hands of government to spend is better for the economy than leaving that money at the disposal of those who worked hard to earn it.  LIBERAL

Trump believes that taxpayers should pick up the tab for college loans taken out for worthless degrees.  LIBERAL

Trump supports ethanol subsidies.  LIBERAL

Trump supports federal rather than state control of public lands.  LIBERAL

Trump believes that the power of government should be used to punish members of a free press if they report something he doesn't agree with.  LIBERAL

Trump believes that the judiciary should conduct criminal investigations.  LIBERAL

As you can see, Reagan, Ed Meese, the Republican and Democrat crossover voters of North Carolina, Alabama, etc.  don't have a damn thing to do with Trump's beliefs and positions.  Again and again and again, Trump is a liberal.  And again and again and again, you ignore it.

So instead of bringing up something Reagan did in the 60's, perhaps you can explain the Conservative aspects of taking money from the American taxpayer at the point of a gun and giving that money to America's biggest abortion provider.  Because that is EXACTLY what Donald Trump stands for.

[DB]

Trump supports federal rather than state control of public lands.  LIBERAL

Add health care to that. Health care should be out of the federal governments control and left to the states. There's that thing called the constitution that explicitly states what the federal government's authority is and it doesn't include health care, education, etc... To say otherwise is LIBERAL.

[Hoodat]

however Trump said he would work to unfund planned parenthood if they perform abortions

In other words, Trump is a lying POS.  Because after someone clued him in that Planned Parenthood not only performed abortions, but was the nation's largest abortion provider, Trump went on record to call for taxpayer funding for Planned Parenthood, citing that they do wonderful things.
[/quote]

Pence is the most pro-life Republican ever on the ticket

Trump is the most pro-abortion Republican ever on the ticket.  And there is nothing Mike Pence could ever do to take away from that.

[EC]

Furthermore (sorry, the rice for tonight's black bean soup was boiling over) it is one of the nastiest symptoms because it is unconstitutional (in that marriage isn't in the Constitution), it is given to a severe minority of the electorate, it is an extra right granted to a severe minority of the electorate, and the reasons put forth are unconstitutional (for example social security distribution to a partner is unconstitutional in that SS is itself unconstitutional).

With respect - what extra right? What prevents you personally from availing yourself of that right? The fact that you have absolutely zero interest in engaging in a same sex marriage in no way prevents you legally from engaging in a same sex marriage.
It's not an extra right if there is no EXTERNAL bar to you carrying it out.

[sneakypete]

Donald still refuses to open his bible I see.

@mrpotatohead

Why the HELL should he even HAVE a bible,never mind have one he opens? If you want a religious police state,you should move to Vatican City or to Saudi Arabia.

This is America. We are a free people and not required to be  followers of any religious cult.

I know nothing about Trump's religious POV,and don't care to know. I only require him to keep it personal and not try to make it the law of the land.

[sneakypete]

By that reckoning Dredd-Scott should be "settled law" too.

Ought to make whatever tyranny he imposes, to be 'settled law' too.

@INVAR

Seems like many people here prefer THEIR tyranny BE the Law of the Land,and to hell with all that silly "freedom stuff".

[sneakypete]

It's the position you have to take to get elected in this country these days.

 

@jmyrlefuller

And why not? Are not homosexual Americans still Americans,with the same rights and privileges as the rest of us? We are either a free people or we are serfs.

Lots of people here need to do some deep thinking about what kind of a country they want to live in and pass on to their children,because it will either be a free country where a free people are left alone to manage their own personal lives in ways that suit them,or a religious police state where we have High Priests or Mullahs to tell us how to think and live.

Be VERY careful what you ask for,lest you get it. Freedom is easy to give up and hard to restore.

[sneakypete]

Settled Law? Did the US Congress pass this law? What bill is it?

@SirLinksALot

Congress has a responsibility to follow the will of the people,and it SEEMS like most people seem to have the radical idea that homosexual Americans are STILL Americans,and have the same rights as the rest of us.

Imagine that!

Next thing you know,people will be demanding that left-handed and color-blind people have the same rights as the rest of us too,but we all KNOW their agenda is to make the rest of us left-handed or color-blind too,right?

What's next,giving rights to fat people? If we aren't careful,we just might wake up one day and realize we are living in a country where all people have equal rights under the law!

We just can't have that,can we?

[sneakypete]

If a strict constitutionalist Supreme Court justice appointment in the mold of Scalia were appointed,  is it not possible for this issue to be revisited?

@SirLinksALot

I think a strict Constitutionalist Supreme Court Justice would be your worse nightmare come true. You,and many,many others here seem to be confusing being a conservative Christian/Muslim/Jew/Whatever with being a conservative American. It just ain't so. There has never been an organized religion in all of history that can even bear the thought of people controlling their own lives.

[sneakypete]

He's also siding with the left on the electoral college.

@Cripplecreek

How so? This is the first time I have heard that.

[sneakypete]

Not if something like a religious conscience act gets passed in Congress.

Evangelicals who gave Trump over 80% of their vote should petition for this.

@SirLinksALot

Religious people would first have to develop a conscience before that were possible,and once they did they would have no desire to create a religious police state.

[sneakypete]

Well, technically he is correct, just like slavery was settled law, jim crow was settled law, prohibition was settled law. The thing about our Constitutional Republic is that 'settled law' is subject to change as long as it doesn't violate the Constitution. We have a system in place that updates laws and customs. So, outside a few limitations on the government, nothing is truly 'settled'.

@AbaraXas

What you wrote.