Author Topic: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump  (Read 70468 times)

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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #650 on: October 23, 2016, 02:38:55 am »
What gets me about that whole dust-up, even beyond the who hit who of it, is that the pictures existed in the first place. The whole finger-pointing episode only draws attention from the fact that she was posing in the nude for money before all this came about.
Otherwise, there wouldn't have been images to have fits about.
That little issue gets kicked to the sidelines in the ensuing attacks on people who didn't deserve it.
They wouldn't just be selling hot dogs around the Mall...
(Psssst! Hey buddy! Have any naked pictures of the First Lady? Wanna buy some???)

Yea but look at the bright side. If people gave it too much scrutiny, they'd realize the entire modeling industry is filled with pedos and homosexuals and Donald was real big on advancing his daughter's modeling career. Which in the fashion modeling industry means that she spent a lot of time naked around adults, both male and female, as a part of the job. Not doing porn or anything of the sort. Just doing the legit job of a fashion model.

They don't have individual changing rooms. Models walk the runway, they get backstage, clothes fly off, new clothes fly on ASAP and back on the runway they go.

So who thinks that every male leaves the backstage area when most of the designers etc are gay men?

Online Hoodat

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #651 on: October 23, 2016, 03:00:59 am »
Was that an attack on  Meleana Trump by the Cruz campaign or not?

From the front page of the Daily Mail on August 19, 2015 - 215 days before Donald Trump would fake outrage to falsely accuse Ted Cruz:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201088/Melania-Trump-Lady-pose-NUDE-talk-incredible-sex-life-Donald-Howard-Stern-rival-Jackie-Kennedy-elegance-style-quiet-strength.html

Donald Trump is a pathological liar, and so are his supporters.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #652 on: October 23, 2016, 03:08:54 am »
The whole finger-pointing episode only draws attention from the fact that she was posing in the nude for money before all this came about.

Posing nude for money, and using Trump's plane as a backdrop.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #653 on: October 23, 2016, 07:10:27 am »
From the front page of the Daily Mail on August 19, 2015 - 215 days before Donald Trump would fake outrage to falsely accuse Ted Cruz:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201088/Melania-Trump-Lady-pose-NUDE-talk-incredible-sex-life-Donald-Howard-Stern-rival-Jackie-Kennedy-elegance-style-quiet-strength.html

Donald Trump is a pathological liar, and so are his supporters.
Read the fine print at the bottom of the original ad and you tell me.

NOT from Cruz. That attribution has to be present on any legal political ad.

Posted as a link and not an image on purpose to keep from offending those who might be offended. The truth, however, is right there along the bottom of the image.

Liz Mair's PAC was not tied to the Cruz camp, but was definitely anti-Trump.

The story is here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/03/24/creator-of-anti-trump-ad-featuring-melania-goes-on-twitter-tirade-against-the-billionaire/

Edited to post the image and not just the link, because some horses just won't be led to water.

The image the Trump camp posted conveniently didn't have the attribution text, which tells me they could either remove that, or they had the image and just added everything but the attribution text and then palmed that off as the ad, without attribution (which would have been illegal if it was used as a political ad), in order to keep the anti-Cruz attack going and justify continuing to viciously attack Heidi Cruz.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 07:26:39 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jpsb

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #654 on: October 23, 2016, 07:19:14 am »
jpsb is a pure 110% Trump drone.  No thought...no speaking his own words...just repeat whatever he's told to by the Trump campaign even when it's been throughly debunked and proven false.

You'll do better to and have more cognitive reactions from your family pet talking about this stuff than you will with a Trump drone.

throughly debunked?

Beginning at the 3:58 you will see a Cruz staffer attack Mrs Trump and call her unfit to be First Lady. Debunk that.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALErcfr7jQ0


Offline jpsb

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #655 on: October 23, 2016, 07:23:47 am »
From the front page of the Daily Mail on August 19, 2015 - 215 days before Donald Trump would fake outrage to falsely accuse Ted Cruz:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201088/Melania-Trump-Lady-pose-NUDE-talk-incredible-sex-life-Donald-Howard-Stern-rival-Jackie-Kennedy-elegance-style-quiet-strength.html

Donald Trump is a pathological liar, and so are his supporters.

Yes ignore the hard evidence right in front of your nose. Typical Cruzer.

Offline jpsb

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #656 on: October 23, 2016, 07:26:45 am »
Read the fine print at the bottom of the original ad and you tell me.

NOT from Cruz. That attribution has to be present on any legal political ad.

Posted as a link and not an image on purpose to keep from offending those who might be offended. The truth, however, is right there along the bottom of the image.

Liz Mair's PAC was not tied to the Cruz camp, but was definitely anti-Trump.

The story is here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/03/24/creator-of-anti-trump-ad-featuring-melania-goes-on-twitter-tirade-against-the-billionaire/

Edited to post the image and not just the link, because some horses just won't be led to water.

Yeah Cruz hiding behind a Super Pac, typical. Trump had no super Pacs. He had balls enough to be his own man unlike Lyin Ted.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #657 on: October 23, 2016, 07:28:55 am »
Yes ignore the hard evidence right in front of your nose. Typical Cruzer.
Post 679, this thread. GO ahead, and ignore that.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jpsb

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #658 on: October 23, 2016, 07:48:55 am »
Post 679, this thread. GO ahead, and ignore that.

Another one that continues to ignore the hard evidence right under his nose. I've already dealt with Cruz supporter Liz Mair.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #659 on: October 23, 2016, 07:57:11 am »
Another one that continues to ignore the hard evidence right under his nose. I've already dealt with Cruz supporter Liz Mair.
I get it. You are down, body and soul for the orange glorious. Either you are well paid, or clinically deluded. Good luck, pal, you're going to need it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #660 on: October 23, 2016, 02:08:42 pm »
Yeah Cruz hiding behind a Super Pac, typical. Trump had no super Pacs. He had balls enough to be his own man unlike Lyin Ted.

It came from a pro RUBIO Super PAC you obtuse dolt.

Talking about ignoring the evidence right in front of your nose.

Thanks for proving my point about being a Trump drone.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online Hoodat

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #661 on: October 23, 2016, 02:27:38 pm »
Yes ignore the hard evidence right in front of your nose. Typical Cruzer.

So where is this hard evidence linking the Ted Cruz campaign with Make America Awesome?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #662 on: October 23, 2016, 02:33:02 pm »
@Smokin Joe @jpsb @Norm Lenhart

I have been giving this idea of "cheap moralizing" some thought. I've been trying to find some historic parallels.

Quote
If a man is fortunate he will, before he dies, gather up as much as he can of his civilized heritage and transmit it to his children. And to his final breath he will be grateful for this inexhaustible legacy, knowing that it is our nourishing mother and our lasting life.
Will and Ariel Durant

Now you can argue the "cheap moralizing" of the "greatest generation" brought about  the rise of the beat generation.

Quote
---It never meant juvenile delinquents, it meant characters of a special spirituality who didn't gang up but were solitary Bartlebies staring out the dead wall window of our civilization--the subterraneans heroes who'd finally turned from the 'freedom' machine of the West and were taking drugs, digging bop, having flashes of insight, experiencing the 'derangement of the senses,' talking strange, being poor and glad, prophesying a new style for American culture, a new style (we thought), a new incantation-"

The beat generation that died a necessary death finding their new "freedom" could not last without standing on the shoulders of the "cheap moralizing" constaints that true freedom imposes.

And on through the counter-culture of the sixties to more recent history.

One can suppose that  "Better that people teach their children tools for thinking and a habit of thinking for themselves rather than copy the ways of their parent's generation."

That is a great idea. But where do they find their own new answers? What philosophical base do they employ?

In the current situation of Trump vs. NeverTrump this accusation of "cheap moralizing" on the part of the NeverTrumps is in fact completely the opposite. It is a finely honed philosophy based on knowledge and principles derived exactly from people who neither sought favor or fame but as, in the words of Will Durant--

Quote
“men standing on the edge of knowledge, and holding the light a little farther ahead; men carving marble into forms ennobling men; men molding peoples into better instruments of greatness; men making a language of music and music out of language; men dreaming of finer lives, and living them.” 

The Trump supporters (with their cheap moralizing) scream we don't have TIME for that crap.

IMO, NOW, especially, IS THE TIME for that crap.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #663 on: October 23, 2016, 02:51:32 pm »
@Smokin Joe @jpsb @Norm Lenhart

I have been giving this idea of "cheap moralizing" some thought. I've been trying to find some historic parallels.
 Will and Ariel Durant

Now you can argue the "cheap moralizing" of the "greatest generation" brought about  the rise of the beat generation.

The beat generation that died a necessary death finding their new "freedom" could not last without standing on the shoulders of the "cheap moralizing" constaints that true freedom imposes.

And on through the counter-culture of the sixties to more recent history.

One can suppose that  "Better that people teach their children tools for thinking and a habit of thinking for themselves rather than copy the ways of their parent's generation."

That is a great idea. But where do they find their own new answers? What philosophical base do they employ?

In the current situation of Trump vs. NeverTrump this accusation of "cheap moralizing" on the part of the NeverTrumps is in fact completely the opposite. It is a finely honed philosophy based on knowledge and principles derived exactly from people who neither sought favor or fame but as, in the words of Will Durant--

The Trump supporters (with their cheap moralizing) scream we don't have TIME for that crap.

IMO, NOW, especially, IS THE TIME for that crap.
Trump supporters philosophy on life comes from television in sound bytes and morality plays written by leftists pushing leftism. There is not a thinker of any depth among them, much less anyone with the principles that actual thought would naturally develop.

One need only look at the Trumpist sloganeering to see the truth of that. Trump posted his manifesto and they all jump on it as if it was truth revealed to Moses. Not one has stopped and asked "How" it will come to pass.

Basicly, we should argue with them for two reasons.
1: so that lurkers see how vapid the Trumpist mindset and positions are. The lurker is whats important. Not the Trumpist. The Trumpist is a write off of no worth to himself or his country. He is to be opposed and used as a warning to others as to what a person who does not think, becomes.

2: Entertainment and practice. Trumpists do not think and thus by definition cannot be taught. If they cannot be taught, they cannot learn. So practice and entertainment are all they are worth spending time on other than 1 above.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #664 on: October 23, 2016, 03:17:11 pm »
@Smokin Joe @jpsb @Norm Lenhart

I have been giving this idea of "cheap moralizing" some thought. I've been trying to find some historic parallels.
 Will and Ariel Durant

Now you can argue the "cheap moralizing" of the "greatest generation" brought about  the rise of the beat generation.

The beat generation that died a necessary death finding their new "freedom" could not last without standing on the shoulders of the "cheap moralizing" constaints that true freedom imposes.

And on through the counter-culture of the sixties to more recent history.

One can suppose that  "Better that people teach their children tools for thinking and a habit of thinking for themselves rather than copy the ways of their parent's generation."

That is a great idea. But where do they find their own new answers? What philosophical base do they employ?

In the current situation of Trump vs. NeverTrump this accusation of "cheap moralizing" on the part of the NeverTrumps is in fact completely the opposite. It is a finely honed philosophy based on knowledge and principles derived exactly from people who neither sought favor or fame but as, in the words of Will Durant--

The Trump supporters (with their cheap moralizing) scream we don't have TIME for that crap.

IMO, NOW, especially, IS THE TIME for that crap.

Morals... ideals... governing principles... a constant fight to not only preserve, but expand individual freedoms.

Those are the things that brought me to the GOP.

Now I'm told that the things that brought me to the Party that I've supported my entire adult life are "cheap" and inferior to winning an election, when the person that I am supposed to support stands in stark opposition to the principles that brought me to the dance to begin with.

No.

Just no.

There's nothing cheap about my decision to stay true to mine own standards.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline musiclady

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #665 on: October 23, 2016, 04:22:55 pm »
Morals... ideals... governing principles... a constant fight to not only preserve, but expand individual freedoms.

Those are the things that brought me to the GOP.

Now I'm told that the things that brought me to the Party that I've supported my entire adult life are "cheap" and inferior to winning an election, when the person that I am supposed to support stands in stark opposition to the principles that brought me to the dance to begin with.

No.

Just no.

There's nothing cheap about my decision to stay true to mine own standards.

Amen, Luis!  AMEN!!!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #666 on: October 23, 2016, 04:39:40 pm »
Morals... ideals... governing principles... a constant fight to not only preserve, but expand individual freedoms.

Those are the things that brought me to the GOP.

Now I'm told that the things that brought me to the Party that I've supported my entire adult life are "cheap" and inferior to winning an election, when the person that I am supposed to support stands in stark opposition to the principles that brought me to the dance to begin with.

No.

Just no.

There's nothing cheap about my decision to stay true to mine own standards.

All I know for sure is my 'cheap moralizing' has cost me EVERYTHING material in the past. I blindly put my trust in "good" people and they destroyed me. They didn't do it out of meanness or spite. They did it out of cheap moralizing. Kicking the can down the road. And they now bring this country to the mess of this election.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #667 on: October 23, 2016, 04:57:59 pm »


If Trump loses we are all going to need a hell of a lot more than luck.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #668 on: October 23, 2016, 05:01:11 pm »

If Trump loses we are all going to need a hell of a lot more than luck.

Trump wont be any different that Hillary.

Only the truly delusional think otherwise.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #669 on: October 23, 2016, 05:01:27 pm »

If Trump loses we are all going to need a hell of a lot more than luck.

Then I guess you should have considered that before forcing a liberal on us to oppose Hillary. Now this is owned by you and yours. We told you 'no'. You knew better.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #670 on: October 23, 2016, 05:02:48 pm »

If Trump loses we are all going to need a hell of a lot more than luck.

Exactly so. I am ready. Are you?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #671 on: October 23, 2016, 05:12:23 pm »
@Smokin Joe @jpsb @Norm Lenhart

I have been giving this idea of "cheap moralizing" some thought. I've been trying to find some historic parallels.
 Will and Ariel Durant

Now you can argue the "cheap moralizing" of the "greatest generation" brought about  the rise of the beat generation.

The beat generation that died a necessary death finding their new "freedom" could not last without standing on the shoulders of the "cheap moralizing" constaints that true freedom imposes.

And on through the counter-culture of the sixties to more recent history.

One can suppose that  "Better that people teach their children tools for thinking and a habit of thinking for themselves rather than copy the ways of their parent's generation."

That is a great idea. But where do they find their own new answers? What philosophical base do they employ?
They go out and reinvent the social wheel. They experiment until they find something that works, or they get lost in their immorality or die young and stupidly, having accomplished little of note except perhaps providing a good bad example for another generation.
Better to have listened at an early age and held those concepts close, to have avoided the pain and impoverishment of a badly lived life.
You see, those rules laid out by a loving God in the Bible weren't laid out to be mean, any more than not letting your four year old play with fire is 'mean'. They were put there to guide those who would listen in how to live a long, healthy, and happy life, well regarded by their peers, prosperous and without pitfalls.
They weren't "mean" any more than a parent disciplining a child to prevent it from self-immolation, no more mean than the rules which prohibit smoking in a fuel depot.

It is only when the outlook of the person is so focused on their thoughts of instantaneous gratification that restrictions on that, however prudent, become cruel, mean, or evil in their minds, a complete inversion of reality. It is little surprising that the followers of such a prominent man-child would demonstrate that trait as well.
Quote
In the current situation of Trump vs. NeverTrump this accusation of "cheap moralizing" on the part of the NeverTrumps is in fact completely the opposite. It is a finely honed philosophy based on knowledge and principles derived exactly from people who neither sought favor or fame but as, in the words of Will Durant--

The Trump supporters (with their cheap moralizing) scream we don't have TIME for that crap.

IMO, NOW, especially, IS THE TIME for that crap.
It is back to the philosophy of instantaneous gratification. I find it sadly amusing that people so into "If it feels good, do it" call themselves "conservative" when that was the absolute hallmark of hippie liberalism.
Like addicts who want their life to improve the second they lay down the spike or cork the bottle, it will take time for the improvements to manifest themselves. But no, rather than support a person who could start that pendulum swinging the other way, they took up the standard for the one who promised the moon and stars with free overnight delivery, because they WANTED to BELIEVE, so much so, that even when told it was not possible, they persisted.
NOW is ABSOLUTELY the time to fall back on principle, to be guided by those things we know are right and good, and to choose our leaders wisely from people guided by those principles of honesty, decency, and self-restraint. But that doesn't mean voting for the Republican or the Democrat.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #672 on: October 23, 2016, 05:16:59 pm »

If Trump loses we are all going to need a hell of a lot more than luck.
Yep. We're going to need a Congress with stones, a spine, and some sense of direction to fight all the leftist BS and safeguard our Rights. (Same as we'd need if he won.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #673 on: October 23, 2016, 05:17:05 pm »
Trump wont be any different that Hillary.

Only the truly delusional think otherwise.

I think he will be slightly less bad.   

Offline txradioguy

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #674 on: October 23, 2016, 05:18:50 pm »
I think he will be slightly less bad.

IMHO slightly less bad is what we just spent 8 years enduring.

That's not a real bright future we're looking at either way.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!