WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump

[jmyrlefuller]

I really cannot believe the stupidity that has gripped this site.

Ignore Donald Trump for a moment.  I know that's a hard thing for some of you sociopaths.

Hillary Clinton - day by day, revelation after revelation - has demonstrated that she is the most dangerous, corrupt and treacherous political figure in the history of our wonderful American Republic.

This "First Woman" -after this "First Black guy" is going to throw our beautiful American experiment ... salvaged by the lives of over 1.5 million soldiers in our Civil War and others ... 

You folks don't like Trump?  You think he's a boor, a buffoon, a huckster?    Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt political figure in America's history.   The Podesta emails and this stuff by Project Veritas should inform EVERY patriotic and informed person about what to do November 8.

Some of you have spent every moment of every single day the last six months ridiculing and demeaning Trump.  I did too, back "then".  Now, we are seeing the treacherous corruption of Hillary Clinton, Accomplice Meia and this Soros-led Leftist conspiracy.

Hey, jackasses:  IT IS NOW TRUMP VS. HILLARY.

Make your mark   Tell us who you are voting for or against. 
I expect an onslaught of "oh so principled conservative" bullshit.  You better be ready to make an argument why any Trump presidency is WORSE than the Hillary reign of Socialist Terror.

I'm fit to fight, punks.  Let's GO!

This is a conservative website?  Bullshat.  This is like DU or DailyKos.

Trump has openly admitted wanting to be a dictator. How many times has he said that only he can fix the problems we face? How many times has he said "I will do" this or that? We're not even talking about a benevolent dictator, either, in the vein of Lee Quan Yew. We're talking about a mentally unstable, self-centered, power-hungry sociopath who will do literally anything for power, including assaulting women; he's a man so deranged that he will make sexual comments about children, even his own, without batting an eyelash. He has donated to the Clinton Foundation, they've attended each other's weddings, he's heaped lavish praise on her when he wasn't seeking the Presidency. If she is as nefarious as you fear, he will do her bidding. If not, he will do his own-- and we ought to have great fear if that happens because he will destroy this country without hesitation if it would lead to his own benefit.

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump are fit for the office. Both must be stopped, by whatever lawful means necessary. I will vote for someone else on the ballot in the hopes that enough join me in putting a dent in the corrupt two-party system that got us to this point.

The fact that you have stated "ignore Donald Trump for a moment" is a fatal flaw in your logic, because we're not voting for blank slates. You could say the exact opposite--"ignore Hillary Clinton for a moment" and you could come to the exact same conclusions about Donald Trump.

[HonestJohn]

Trump's only chance is to focus solely on policy and to discuss it intelligently and coherently.  That's the only chance he has to demonstrate a basic fitness for the office to the undecideds.

More of the same will sink him.

Personally, I think it's too late for him to change enough minds to make a difference.  I suspect the true "undecideds" are probably not that numerous at this point.  At best, he might win some wavering Republicans back, who are not the "undecideds" he needs to convince.

I don't see that happening.  He's been 'unleashed', you see.  And his invitation to Obama's half-brother to attend the debate, coupled with the debate crew having to tell him that, should he bring Bill's rape girls as well, that they'd be removed... is a clear indicator that he's going to go full nuclear in the debate.

[Emjay]

He came on this thread to attack both the posters here AND to attack this forum.

I have always thought the world of Arne........... until he did this.

I would never block him.  All it would take is an apology for his smearing me, and for smearing this good forum.

If he's the Arne I thought he was, he'll do that.....

I don't remember knowing Arne before but he must have been a fairly good guy to have so much  support.

He's a Trump supporter and they are now officially desperate and it seems to make them mean.

They couldn't con us into voting Trump and they couldn't threaten us into voting Trump so they are in a melt down.

[mystery-ak]

He came on this thread to attack both the posters here AND to attack this forum.

I have always thought the world of Arne........... until he did this.

I would never block him.  All it would take is an apology for his smearing me, and for smearing this good forum.

If he's the Arne I thought he was, he'll do that.....

I know what he wrote and I am in no way condoning it....I just think it is so sad that this election has caused all this...friends turning on each other.

[jmyrlefuller]

Well, there goes another legendary poster. You know the only folks chased off this pitiful excuse for a right-leaning website are Trump voters.

Trump voters, the only republican voters standing against the sorrowful loss of American sovereignty that will surely be our future if we stupidly allow ourself to elect an authoritarian, progressive left regime, headed by the most corrupt person to ever seek the presidency, Hillary Clinton.

If you want an authoritarian, progressive left regime, all you have to do is elect Donald Trump!

[HonestJohn]

Yup. I'm just amazed at how so few people see it for what it is.

They flat out said it in the primaries.  "Blow up the GOP" was the goal.

[Norm Lenhart]

I do not remember the incident but I blocked him a long time ago.  Regardless, I think anyone who wants to stay should stay.  But if they dish it out, they had better be able to take it right back.

Viewing it another way, some of us (myself included) have to occasionally stomp off like we are never coming back.  It is just part of the emotional roller coaster of this election.  So maybe we should all make clear we are not intending to run him off and that he should come back whenever he wants to.  So that makes it easier for him to just take a needed break.

He's an adult. He can choose as he likes.

[HonestJohn]

I really cannot believe the stupidity that has gripped this site.

Ignore Donald Trump for a moment.  I know that's a hard thing for some of you sociopaths.

Hillary Clinton - day by day, revelation after revelation - has demonstrated that she is the most dangerous, corrupt and treacherous political figure in the history of our wonderful American Republic.

This "First Woman" -after this "First Black guy" is going to throw our beautiful American experiment ... salvaged by the lives of over 1.5 million soldiers in our Civil War and others ... 

You folks don't like Trump?  You think he's a boor, a buffoon, a huckster?    Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt political figure in America's history.   The Podesta emails and this stuff by Project Veritas should inform EVERY patriotic and informed person about what to do November 8.

Some of you have spent every moment of every single day the last six months ridiculing and demeaning Trump.  I did too, back "then".  Now, we are seeing the treacherous corruption of Hillary Clinton, Accomplice Meia and this Soros-led Leftist conspiracy.

Hey, jackasses:  IT IS NOW TRUMP VS. HILLARY.

Make your mark   Tell us who you are voting for or against. 
I expect an onslaught of "oh so principled conservative" bullshit.  You better be ready to make an argument why any Trump presidency is WORSE than the Hillary reign of Socialist Terror.

I'm fit to fight, punks.  Let's GO!

This is a conservative website?  Bullshat.  This is like DU or DailyKos.

You ignore Trump and his behaviors and policy statements.  He is a demagogue who seeks to destroy the basic foundations upon which America was founded.  He also shows a leaning toward supporting thuggish behavior and violence to achieve his goals.  A proto-fascist in the making.

He is unarguably worse than Hillary in the same way Mussolini was worse than Nixon.

And his ardent supporters, with their calls for and actual violence against non-supporters, are acting much like brownshirts, attacking anyone they desire.  The only reason this site hasn't succumb is that they are a *VERY* small minority with no capability to actually *FULFILL* their desires.  Had they more support, you can best believe they'd have instigated a coup and removed everyone who would not bow.

And yes, that's a fair comparison.  Look at the two's behavior and ask, "What's the difference?"

You'll have a hard time finding one!

[Norm Lenhart]

They thought they would have us when they bullied Cruz into an endorsement, but no.

"NO" Is exactly why they are so upset. They refuse to accept 'no' for an answer. But they don't have a choice and they can't deal with it.

[Norm Lenhart]

Obviously.  I'm not talking about force.  I'm talking about a tiny bit of grace even if it is undeserved.  For mystery's sake if nothing else.

You can't nice this away. They flatly refuse to stop with the Hillary supporter crap among the other BS.

Look. I appreciate Myst and hate the level of shit she has to deal with. But this isn't on us. It's on the Trumpists. They won't stop. and catering to them is the wrong choice.

[Jazzhead]

I really cannot believe the stupidity that has gripped this site.

Ignore Donald Trump for a moment.  I know that's a hard thing for some of you sociopaths.

Hillary Clinton - day by day, revelation after revelation - has demonstrated that she is the most dangerous, corrupt and treacherous political figure in the history of our wonderful American Republic.

This "First Woman" -after this "First Black guy" is going to throw our beautiful American experiment ... salvaged by the lives of over 1.5 million soldiers in our Civil War and others ... 

You folks don't like Trump?  You think he's a boor, a buffoon, a huckster?    Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt political figure in America's history.   The Podesta emails and this stuff by Project Veritas should inform EVERY patriotic and informed person about what to do November 8.

Some of you have spent every moment of every single day the last six months ridiculing and demeaning Trump.  I did too, back "then".  Now, we are seeing the treacherous corruption of Hillary Clinton, Accomplice Meia and this Soros-led Leftist conspiracy.

Hey, jackasses:  IT IS NOW TRUMP VS. HILLARY.

Make your mark   Tell us who you are voting for or against. 
I expect an onslaught of "oh so principled conservative" bullshit.  You better be ready to make an argument why any Trump presidency is WORSE than the Hillary reign of Socialist Terror.

I'm fit to fight, punks.  Let's GO!

Sorry, Arne, but Trump's worse, far worse, than Hillary.  Hillary's a conventional, corrupt politician.  She's no one's choice for President, but she won't get our soldiers killed, or worse, in a egomaniacal hissy fit like Trump may.   

Trump's problem is his temperament.  A megalomaniac boy-child with no impulse control has no business being Commander in Chief.   It's not about the issues;  I could live with Trump's message if it were delivered by a sane messenger.  Clinton may be Don Corleone, but Trump's Kim Jong Il with a thousand nukes at his disposal.   

I've always voted for the Republican over the Democrat, so believe me,  my defection comes with a heavy heart and real fear for the future of our Republic.  Trump has created the conditions by which the Dems may control all three branches of government.   That's a horrifying prospect, but one we will have to endure to ensure the safety and security of our loved ones, and our fighting men.   Trump simply can't be trusted to be Commander in Chief; that's the tragic reality as I see it.     

[jmyrlefuller]

I know what he wrote and I am in no way condoning it....I just think it is so sad that this election has caused all this...friends turning on each other.

This is what partisanship does to people. We've lost sight of our principles and our conscience and tethered ourselves to teams. This is why I am, and always have been, a registered independent: parties get corrupted, and eventually people in large numbers make incredibly horrible decisions, ones that seem to be getting worse and worse as the years pass.

This is a perfect example. If we would have looked back to 2014, and assessed Donald Trump on a yes-or-no vote, he would have been rejected with a resounding no, comparable to Hillary Clinton herself. Yet, because he hijacked a primary process that we knew from the past two cycles was horrendously broken, we now tether ourselves to him even though I think most of us clearly know that he would never do the right thing.

This is the first election where I really don't have a preference for which one wins. I wasn't thrilled with Bush but preferred him over Kerry. I despise Obama and what he did to this country and ultimately supported both of his opponents. But Trump and Clinton? Between the two of them alone, I could seriously look and come to the conclusion that Clinton is less of a risk than Trump. At least the Clintons were kept in check with a GOP congress: we got deficit reduction, welfare reform, and a temporary end to the era of Big Government, so if that's the consequence of not voting Trump, I guess it is what it is. Trump is unrestrainable, and I know I'm drifting off on a tangent here, but I'm glad that I don't bind myself to the false dichotomy.

[Silver Pines]

You don't have the political influence to do so. 

@Axel
@Norm Lenhart

Yet we're responsible for Trump losing?  How's that work?

[Norm Lenhart]

I didn't mean to imply it was on us.  I agree with all the NeverTrumpers.  You guys are my sanity this election cycle.  You are probably right it will not work.  I don't know.  I was just trying to think of a way to calm his anger since it seemed to really disappoint mystery.  I have personally had him on ignore for quite awhile so....I don't really know him very well.

I'm sure we all would rather deal with issues than flame wars. Yes, even evil old me. But the more pressure builds up, the bigger the blast when it ignites.

You cannot placate people only interested in getting their way. They just keep ramping up, as we clearly see daily until they get their spoiled child way or they get blowback. And most of us are done with catering to their same speil over and over.

[musiclady]

I know what he wrote and I am in no way condoning it....I just think it is so sad that this election has caused all this...friends turning on each other.

Yes.  It's sad.

But my opinion, right or wrong, is that intense loyalty to Trump has changed people for the worse.

If people have turned on me and are calling me a Hillary supporter then the problem is theirs.

And hopefully, they will fix it once Trump loses badly because he's such a horrific candidate.....

[Silver Pines]

It seems to me, given the quote and the circumstances, that you would have to work very hard to say this is anything but assault.

I understand that in a court of law, it may take more to actually prove it, but the cold reality is that Donald Trump took advantage of and molested women just because he could.

Applying common sense is a rare thing these days......... or so it seems.

@CatherineofAragon

@musiclady

Trump's meaning was clear.  Even his lapdog, Giuliani, admitted it. 

I hate to be a broken record, but I really regret defending conservative men from attacks by liberal feminists.  I wish I hadn't wasted my breath.  When the chips are down, it's hey, little lady, there are more important things to worry about than a little crotch grabbing.

[Norm Lenhart]

@Axel
@Norm Lenhart

Yet we're responsible for Trump losing?  How's that work?

Magic!

[TomSea]

Arne is correct but I think what people get will be similar to all of those who wanted Obamacare, got it and now, see it is terrible.

No way, is Trump worse than the Bush dynasty, and we owe him for really overthrowing such Gloabalists and Elitists.

[HonestJohn]

I love ya but ... are you out of your mind?

Have you seen the recent scandals regarding the DNC/Media/Organized Crime program to take our votes and destroy our Republic???

What the F??

Donald Trump is a boorish, narcissistic BUFFOON.  I've said that from the start. 

How, in any fantasy of his going-forward treachery or danger, could he EVER be more dangerous as a candidate than we know HILLARY CLINTON IS????!!!

Grow rup, Gosh dammit. 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?   This site is no different than Daily Kos.  F it/

Scandel versus revoking US citizenship from those born here?

In what way is *THAT* even *CLOSE*!!!

(revoking birthright citizenship, a key Trump policy)

[musiclady]

Obviously.  I'm not talking about force.  I'm talking about a tiny bit of grace even if it is undeserved.  For mystery's sake if nothing else.

I wholeheartedly agree............. grace is definitely called for here.

And I'm very glad you joined this conversation, @RAT Patrol !   

[HonestJohn]

This election has turned friends into enemies....it is so sad.

That's why it's called a civil war.

The GOP is in the middle part of the first half.  What happens after the election is the latter half.  And no matter who wins, there will be political casualities.

Talk radio, for one.

[musiclady]

@musiclady

Trump's meaning was clear.  Even his lapdog, Giuliani, admitted it. 

I hate to be a broken record, but I really regret defending conservative men from attacks by liberal feminists.  I wish I hadn't wasted my breath.  When the chips are down, it's hey, little lady, there are more important things to worry about than a little crotch grabbing.

Only some of them, @CatherineofAragon .

There's been a lot of support from the real conservatives (and real men) here in defense of the dignity of women.

I'll have to admit though, that in the big picture with the support for or excusing of Donald's assault against women, there has been a frightening realization that the left's attack has not been totally without merit.

There definitely are pigs on our side of the aisle.....   

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Only some of them, @CatherineofAragon .

There's been a lot of support from the real conservatives (and real men) here in defense of the dignity of women.

I'll have to admit though, that in the big picture with the support for or excusing of Donald's assault against women, there has been a frightening realization that the left's attack has not been totally without merit.

There definitely are pigs on our side of the aisle.....   

Trump comments and behavior was indefensible. Is voting for Trump tantamount to supporting Trump in your eyes?


I think that  liberal dominated USSC will make life terrible for all Americans, including women.

[Smokin Joe]

People don't change drastically. the mask just comes off.

Maybe one of the Trump Militants bit him?

[Norm Lenhart]

There definitely are pigs on our side of the aisle.....   

@CatherineofAragon

I don't think they are on our side of the aisle. That mindset, by definition is not one based in conservatism. They may otherwise have conservative beliefs but respect for women is a core of chivalry, conservatism and basic JudeoChristian morality. Anyone that would bench that over a political candidate simply is not conservative.

Now someone make me a damn sammich! ;)