Author Topic: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment  (Read 68049 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #325 on: October 12, 2016, 03:01:49 am »

 
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.@realDonaldTrump tells supporters in Florida to vote on "November 28."
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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #326 on: October 12, 2016, 03:18:15 am »

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.@realDonaldTrump tells supporters in Florida to vote on "November 28."

He's down the road in Panama City.  It is the only part of FL he might win.  Poor sap thinks FL is in play. 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #327 on: October 12, 2016, 03:39:41 am »
He's down the road in Panama City.  It is the only part of FL he might win.  Poor sap thinks FL is in play.
The more things change...
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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #329 on: October 12, 2016, 04:00:07 am »

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.@realDonaldTrump tells supporters in Florida to vote on "November 28."

I fully agree.

Furthermore, as their orange god hath spoken, they may not disobey his diktats.  They must not vote on November 8th, for that would render their lord's words a falsehood.  And the punishment for such apotasy is to be 'hunted down with dogs'.

Offline EC

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #330 on: October 12, 2016, 05:18:20 am »
What part of consent do you not understand?

con·sent
kənˈsent/
noun
    1.
    permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.
   
verb
    1.
    give permission for something to happen.

What part of permission do you fail to understand?

I could come over to your place, grope and kiss your wife and, if the alternative presented to her was to destroy your life or career, she'd consent. Which, by your reasoning, absolves me of any wrong doing at all.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #331 on: October 12, 2016, 12:14:37 pm »
No, that is assault. And remember, "letting him" was only from his perspective. His numerous accusers would beg to differ.

Combine both sides of the picture, and you have assault.

This is not something that can really be determined in isolation from the actual conduct.  There are layers of subtlety, non-verbal communication, degrees of touching, etc. that go on.  There are some women who lust after powerful men, and will gladly hop in the sack with them because of that power.  If Trump is referring to that, then it may not be actual assault.  It would be difficult to make that determination without knowing more about the particular incidents where it happened.

And while a lot of folks like to throw the "assault" label on as a technical legal definition applicable to any unwanted touching, that usage of the word can be misleading.  Back in my younger days, I had my butt and various other body parts touched without permission by women (sometimes just a touch inebriated) who used it as kind of a heavy come-on.  The idea of claiming "assault" was absurd -- it was generally "no thanks", or "not interested".  Sometimes it took more than one turn-down before they got the message.  Then again, it wasn't always turned down.

Obviously that things can go farther than that, so I'm not saying that what Trump did was "only" boorish and not really assault.  I'm simply saying that these kind of things really need to be looked at in a lot more detail to get an accurate handle on what went on.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:15:43 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

geronl

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #332 on: October 12, 2016, 12:26:05 pm »
Ingraham is now joining Katrina P--- in encouraging Trumpturds not to vote down-ballot.

I said from the start that Trump would lead his idiot followers to voting Democrat and it sure looks like it will happen for all intents and purposes. Trump is the best weapon Hillary could have launched to become President.

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #333 on: October 12, 2016, 12:29:29 pm »
Ingraham is now joining Katrina P--- in encouraging Trumpturds not to vote down-ballot.

I'm just going to point out that there also exists some non-Trump supporters who peddle the argument that the GOP Congress is "useless anyway", and that it doesn't make a difference if we elect Republicans or not down-ticket because they won't stand up to Hillary anyway.  It's the "the GOP gave Obama everything he wanted" crowd, and they're actually pulling in the same direction as those Trumpists.


Offline LMAO

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #334 on: October 12, 2016, 12:30:46 pm »
The assault charge is been thrown around too casually here. If a man makes a pass at a woman, she kisses back, he touches her, she doesn't say no nor try to stop him, were is the assault?

Are we going to throw men in jail for making passes at women? Too many here are letting their dislike of Trump making them sound like left wing University professors.

I showed several women Trump's words to guage how they felt. Their opinion was Trump believed that his fame and wealth entitled him to certain privileges and he used the women as groupies. None thought it was assault
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #335 on: October 12, 2016, 12:31:31 pm »
What part of consent do you not understand?

con·sent
kənˈsent/
noun
    1.
    permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.
   
verb
    1.
    give permission for something to happen.

What part of "Donald Trump is a predator and a liar" don't you understand?

Believing a man who cheats on every wife and brags about it, who brags about looking at naked beauty pageant contestants because who can stop him? who brags about kissing and grabbing women because he's rich and famous and they "let him" is telling the truth about "consent" is as naïve and stupid as a human being can be.

When a rich, powerful man grabs your daughter by the crotch and brags that she "consented" you get back to us, OK?

You are absolutely CLUELESS about sexual predators and assault if you actually believe these women consented to being molested just because the molester claims they "consented."

Fortunately, there are only a few of you on this forum, but the argument you guys are making to defend Trump reveals that you are either dumber than a box of rocks, or as amoral as Trump is.

My guess is the former, because there are very few men as debauched as he is and I doubt there are 5 of you posting on this forum.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #336 on: October 12, 2016, 12:34:28 pm »
The assault charge is been thrown around too casually here. If a man makes a pass at a woman, she kisses back, he touches her, she doesn't say no nor try to stop him, were is the assault?

Are we going to throw men in jail for making passes at women? Too many here are letting their dislike of Trump making them sound like left wing University professors.

I showed several women Trump's words to guage how they felt. Their opinion was Trump believed that his fame and wealth entitled him to certain privileges and he used the women as groupies. None thought it was assault

That's the subtlety that just gets lost when this stuff is reduced to a few words on a page, or in a casual statement.  We simply don't know the full context.

geronl

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #337 on: October 12, 2016, 12:34:35 pm »
The assault charge is been thrown around too casually here. If a man makes a pass at a woman, she kisses back, he touches her, she doesn't say no nor try to stop him, were is the assault?

So the women who report having to wrestle their way out of his tiny hands and yell at him to stop are consenting?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #338 on: October 12, 2016, 12:48:02 pm »
This is not something that can really be determined in isolation from the actual conduct.  There are layers of subtlety, non-verbal communication, degrees of touching, etc. that go on.  There are some women who lust after powerful men, and will gladly hop in the sack with them because of that power.  If Trump is referring to that, then it may not be actual assault.  It would be difficult to make that determination without knowing more about the particular incidents where it happened.

And while a lot of folks like to throw the "assault" label on as a technical legal definition applicable to any unwanted touching, that usage of the word can be misleading.  Back in my younger days, I had my butt and various other body parts touched without permission by women (sometimes just a touch inebriated) who used it as kind of a heavy come-on.  The idea of claiming "assault" was absurd -- it was generally "no thanks", or "not interested".  Sometimes it took more than one turn-down before they got the message.  Then again, it wasn't always turned down.

Obviously that things can go farther than that, so I'm not saying that what Trump did was "only" boorish and not really assault.  I'm simply saying that these kind of things really need to be looked at in a lot more detail to get an accurate handle on what went on.
An awful lot gets ignored as not worthy of complaint. Someone is out of line, you put them back in line, end of story. In many cases, it's just not worth complaining about--but we're guys, and yes, Virginia, there is a double standard there.

But, once again, we're seeing a small rock sticking out of an ocean. That little chunk of lithic material above sea level isn't floating, it isn't something isolated, rather it has a lot beneath it holding it up.

The idea that because he is somebody he can conduct himself in such a fashion as to ignore the patent lack of desire some women may have for his advances is the foundation that small rock sits on. Whether that be callous disregard for other people, objectification, hubris on his part, or the idea that somehow money and a little fame (often seen as equating to power) grant him immunity from the rules--whether those be just common decency or the Law--a lot unseen underlies his behaviour.
You decide whether that is just a rare instance of misguided testosterone, like a rock floating in the ocean, or the tip of a seamount, just the momentary manifestation of a much deeper syndrome of behaviour. If the latter, then it bespeaks an attitude that the ordinary rules don't apply to him as a result of his wealth or fame or power, some form of jus primae noctis or droit du seigneur.

As for assault, well, one possible metric is simple enough to apply. If the average guy did what he claimed he did to whom he did it to, would he be facing charges? If you or I walked in on Miss USA pageant contestants changing clothes? Laid nude in their hotel beds waiting for them?  Groped married women while 'shopping for furniture'? What are the chances we would be arrested for such behaviour?
 
If he only 'got away with it' because of wealth, fame, or 'power', that bespeaks a serious tendency to abuse that power, if not the feeling that he is entitled to do so. That's the mountain that puts the little rock above the waves. We know what Hillary will do with such an attitude. After all, 'rules are for little people'. Unfortunately, supporting that mentality from the allegedly Conservative end of the political spectrum would leave no place at the table for the Rule of Law.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #339 on: October 12, 2016, 12:49:06 pm »
That's the subtlety that just gets lost when this stuff is reduced to a few words on a page, or in a casual statement.  We simply don't know the full context.

Maj. Bill ............... we DO know the context that Donald Trump is vain, arrogant, disrespects women, abuses his wealth and power, and is a vulgar liar.  We DO know that he has been accused of sexual misconduct by multiple women.

And we DO know that he lies about pretty much everything.

What kind of naivte does it take to actually believe it when he claims the women he groped and molested "consented?"

I know you're trying to be fair here, but sometimes working so hard to do so makes you miss the obvious.

Would you be OK with it if a rich, powerful man groped your daughter and he said she "consented?"

That's the excuse sexual predators make ALL the time.  That she "wanted it."

Put it in context of his character (or lack thereof) on display throughout his life, and you'll see that this is just one more evidence that he is a reprobate and a serial liar.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Online kevindavis007

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #340 on: October 12, 2016, 12:51:59 pm »
Ingraham is now joining Katrina P--- in encouraging Trumpturds not to vote down-ballot.

I said from the start that Trump would lead his idiot followers to voting Democrat and it sure looks like it will happen for all intents and purposes. Trump is the best weapon Hillary could have launched to become President.


It seems the basic understanding of civics is lacking on both sides....


Here is a refresher...



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Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #341 on: October 12, 2016, 12:52:04 pm »
So the women who report having to wrestle their way out of his tiny hands and yell at him to stop are consenting?

To a Trump lover, THEY are the liars and HE is telling the truth.

The man (using the term loosely) is a serial offender.  He is.....  Just. Like. Clinton.

And NONE of these people working so hard to defend Trump thought that it was OK for Clinton to abuse women.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online kevindavis007

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #342 on: October 12, 2016, 12:55:35 pm »
To a Trump lover, THEY are the liars and HE is telling the truth.

The man (using the term loosely) is a serial offender.  He is.....  Just. Like. Clinton.

And NONE of these people working so hard to defend Trump thought that it was OK for Clinton to abuse women.


I said this before, we can't complain about Bill's behavior since a lot of people are defending Trump's behavior.
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Offline Major Confusion

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #343 on: October 12, 2016, 01:06:14 pm »
It's more that Trump hates America. The only glove he laid on her was on her rotund bottom when he helped push up her standing. If you wanna effectively go after her for sex issues, it helps to not have a shipping container full of ones own.

With probably more to follow.  Are there other shoes out there, waiting to fall?  Anyone surprised if there are?
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Offline Major Confusion

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #344 on: October 12, 2016, 01:14:55 pm »
Ingraham is now joining Katrina P--- in encouraging Trumpturds not to vote down-ballot.

I said from the start that Trump would lead his idiot followers to voting Democrat and it sure looks like it will happen for all intents and purposes. Trump is the best weapon Hillary could have launched to become President.

Almost makes you wonder if that wasn't the plan all along?
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Offline LMAO

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #345 on: October 12, 2016, 01:18:32 pm »
So the women who report having to wrestle their way out of his tiny hands and yell at him to stop are consenting?


If Donald Trump makes a pass at them and they say no  but he continues or ignores them that then can become assault.  From his statement,  his own words ,  it sounds to me that he is using his fame and wealth to his advantage.  If they let him, as what he says in his statement, then that's not assault .

Being a pig and  being boorish and bombastic is not a crime
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #346 on: October 12, 2016, 01:23:19 pm »
Maj. Bill ............... we DO know the context that Donald Trump is vain, arrogant, disrespects women, abuses his wealth and power, and is a vulgar liar.

That doesn't mean that these particular actions were what people would normally classify as an "assault", other than in the most strict legal definition of a touching without consent.  Just because someone is a scumbag in general does not make them guilty of every accusation.

Quote
What kind of naivte does it take to actually believe it when he claims the women he groped and molested "consented?"

Women grabs guys butt in a bar, without obtaining consent.  Assault?

Quote
I know you're trying to be fair here, but sometimes working so hard to do so makes you miss the obvious.

Well, not exactly -- I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle.  I've handled sexual harassment cases in the high double digits, and the subtleties of actual human interactions are different than how they are portrayed when discussed in the abstract.  The difference between harassment and flirting can be nothing more than whether or not the woman actually liked the guy.  There are flirtatious glances that are "I think that cute guy is checking me out" and then there's "Ew, that creep keeps staring at me."  Every unsuccessful pass is not sexual assault.

Generally, I think it should come down to whether the guy took "no" for an answer, more so than the initial pass.  If he persists in making physical contact after being given a "no", that's something different.  The truth is there are a thousand bars in this country where what Trump described happens on a nightly basis.  It can certainly be creepy when it is unwanted, but at the same time, it doesn't always end up as unwanted, and that seems to have been Trump's point.  Doesn't mean it wasn't sleazy, but I think the "sexual assault!" cry of the lynch mob may be overblown.

That's is an issue separate from other valid criticisms of his character otherwise.

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #347 on: October 12, 2016, 01:31:03 pm »
As for assault, well, one possible metric is simple enough to apply. If the average guy did what he claimed he did to whom he did it to, would he be facing charges? If you or I walked in on Miss USA pageant contestants changing clothes? Laid nude in their hotel beds waiting for them?

Well, that's a tough metric because he's involved with those pageants, and we're not.  The former - no.  The latter - yuck.  Although...
Hell, once while summer interning for a major law firm, I came home to a party my roommates were throwing in our house.  Just came back from working out, so I went upstairs to take a shower.  Literally face with the exact same situation.

I should add that this was not someone with whom I'd had any prior relationship.  But she clearly knew it was my room, and went in there deliberately knowing I'd be back.  Cops?

Quote
Groped married women while 'shopping for furniture'? What are the chances we would be arrested for such behaviour?

Depends if the woman called a cop, or just brushed it off.  Hitting on married women is scummy, but I don't think it counts as a disqualifier for office.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 01:33:02 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Silver Pines

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #348 on: October 12, 2016, 01:34:09 pm »
What part of consent do you not understand?

con·sent
kənˈsent/
noun
    1.
    permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.
   
verb
    1.
    give permission for something to happen.


@jpsb

Where did you read that any of the women consented?

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #349 on: October 12, 2016, 01:35:12 pm »

 All of the legal rights, including the Presidency should he seek it.


If you think a state can pass a law to undo a requirement of the Presidency,   than it is pointless to argue with you further on that point. 

The Marquis was not born in Virginia.  The Marquis was not born to an American.   He cannot be born twice.   Since he was already born a Subject of King Louis XVI,   He cannot be born as anything else. 


You accuse me of playing word games,   but I am speaking the plain truth.  I am speaking reality,  not trying to force reality to confirm to words games such as you are seemingly insisting upon. 



It is a distinction of dogma—not of function, not even of semantics, but pure dogma, based on the false assumption that only 14th Amendment Birthright, which did not exist at the time the phrase was coined, is the only natural born citizenship.


The 14th amendment is *NOT*  "natural citizenship."   Even the Supreme Court explicitly said it wasn't.   It is statutory citizenship.    Anyone made a citizen by the action of the 14th amendment is not a natural citizen,  but is instead a citizen by statute.   (man made law.)   


The founders believed that only "the laws of Nature or Nature's God",   could make natural citizens.    Congress has the power of "naturalization",   which means to make "like natural."   i.e. effectively Adoption.   


Naturalized citizens are adopted citizens,   they are not "natural"  citizens.   Their descendants are natural citizens,   but naturalized citizens are not.   



That's a dubious assertion. 
 The same King Louis XVI who was, in short order, overthrown, which would have thrown any French subject's citizenship into serious doubt.


The French Revolution is the time in which France transitioned from having Subjects  to having "Citizens." 


Aux armes, citoyens!
Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons! Marchons!
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons!



While it was a Monarchy,  it  had Subjects.   When it became a Republic,   it had "Citizens."    At the time,  it was only the third Nation in the World that had "Citizens."   All the rest used the term "Subjects."   

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