Author Topic: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment  (Read 68090 times)

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #300 on: October 12, 2016, 12:24:45 am »
Trump has not assaulted anyone, he was bragging and said his "groupies" let him do anything he wants to them since he was a "star". That is a far cry from assault.


Not legally.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #301 on: October 12, 2016, 12:26:02 am »
Trump has not assaulted anyone, he was bragging and said his "groupies" let him do anything he wants to them since he was a "star". That is a far cry from assault.

Perhaps. And I think the sexual assault charge may be overblown. That is a crime and we have no evidence Trump has committed an actual crime

I showed his words to some women I know. All of them, when they saw his own words, took it as Trump believing his wealth and status as a star gave him special privileges when it comes to women. Imagine that belief repeated throughout the country and you then begin to understand why Trump will probably lose.

He may have not meant that for public consumption but then he goes on the Howard Stern show and talks the same way. And then continues that mindset through out his campaign
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:26:44 am by LMAO »
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #302 on: October 12, 2016, 12:28:25 am »
No, that is assault. And remember, "letting him" was only from his perspective. His numerous accusers would beg to differ.

Combine both sides of the picture, and you have assault.

There are no numerous accusers only paid operatives of the democrat party whose cases are thrown out of court for being without merit.

Offline GtHawk

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #303 on: October 12, 2016, 12:29:59 am »

If deliberate lies worked in that race,  why would you not think they would work in another race?   




I have no idea if the man is guilty,  I only know that the media says he is.   In any case,  it wrecked his career.   The point is,  they didn't care if the allegations were true or not.   They simply didn't care.
Well it's hard to argue with your statement since it is exactly what Trump and his minions did to Cruz, now isn't it? And what do we have to show for it but but crazyman at the top of our ballot.


Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #304 on: October 12, 2016, 12:32:14 am »
Oh ok. Never mind that Cruz has been determined to be eligible in federal courts what - a half dozen times? Smart people know better.

Tedious.

They do not know better.   They are just certain in their ignorance and in a position to make their ignorance apply.   

And no,  the question of Cruz has not been determined in any court.   It is Obama's status which was challenged in various courts,  (some of them Federal,  but most of them State courts.)  and most often the case was rejected because the courts did not believe ordinary citizens had "standing"  to sue  for court intervention.   

Cruz has nothing more than opinions from various lawyers,   but the case of Rogers v Bellei was decided by the Supreme court,  and the circumstances of Aldo Mario Bellei are exactly the same circumstances as Ted Cruz.   

The court explicitly said that such citizens as were created by statute are subject to the requirements congress places in such naturalization statutes.   The court explicitly held that Bellei was a naturalized citizen.    So it would too in the case of Ted Cruz,  because he was also  naturalized by statute. 


As a matter of fact,  the 1952 law that makes him a citizen  *SAYS*   that it is a naturalization statute. 


It's certainly not a constitutional amendment.   
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #305 on: October 12, 2016, 12:36:34 am »
This is a topic that I have been strenuously researching since 2008.   I believe I have done a better job of it than most,  and know a lot of things about it which most "experts"  do not know.

The Constitution is vague about the subject. Therefore statute has always been used to make these determinations.

Two honest questions, respectfully offered - has the Supreme Court ruled on whats a 'natural born citizen', and what do you know about the issue, that were missed by the multiple federal courts in which challenges to Cruz's eligibility (as implied by their ruling he is eligible to be on the ballot in their respective states) have been found to have no merit, that would cause him to be found ineligible in the future?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:40:26 am by skeeter »

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #306 on: October 12, 2016, 12:44:09 am »
Trump has not assaulted anyone, he was bragging and said his "groupies" let him do anything he wants to them since he was a "star". That is a far cry from assault.

@jpsb

Nope, wrong.  Firstly, Giuliani admitted on TV that what Trump described was assault.  A former prosecutor should know.

Secondly, here are Trump's exact words:

"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the bleep. You can do anything."

So he said his habit was to approach women and just kiss them without asking---and they let him do it.  He kissed them and they didn't do anything after it happened.  Then----you can do it because you're a star, you can do anything, grab them by the p***y.  The grabbing and groping is an extension of the kissing.  And let's face it, do gropers ask before they grope?  Do you think Trump asked anyone, hey, can I grab you down there?  Of course he didn't, especially if he didn't ask to kiss them.  He's saying he did it, and the women let him get away with it because they were intimidated by his status. 


Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #307 on: October 12, 2016, 12:46:36 am »
The Marquis de Lafayette was not made into a natural born citizen.   The statutes to which you are referring say that he and his descendants will be regarded  as "natural born citizens."  In other words,  a polite pretense that he is one,  but with all the rights of a citizen granted to him.   
There you go again, twisting and contorting what is there into something that isn't. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If one is regarded as a natural born citizen in the eyes of the law, and the Constitution is law, then the person is eligible. Thus, if one can be arbitrarily declared one, it is an inherently meaningless and arbitrary phrase.

You are making a fallacy, assuming a statement and then trying to interpret the evidence in your favor, even if it doesn't fit.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #308 on: October 12, 2016, 12:52:11 am »

I do not believe Trumps "conversion"  is genuine,  rather I believe it is opportunistic.   He wanted to be President  (He has always been motivated by ego)  and there was no way he was going to be able to elbow Hillary out of the way for the Democrat nomination,   so he "converted".   


That being said,   I don't think he is actually very ideological,   and it is my hope that he will adopt policies which his hopefully conservative advisers will suggest.   He has already indicated he will nominate conservative Judges for the Federal courts,  and that is a MAJOR part of the reason why we need a Republican as President.   


Regardless of any misgivings I have about him,  he is still a better alternative than Hillary.

I had considered the 'conversion' idea and Trump being opportunistic when he first announced his run for the presidency.  I considered he couldn't run under the DEM umbrella because he couldn't compete with Hillary.  But if you look at the logic for a moment, if he couldn't compete under the DEM umbrella what makes you think competing under the GOP umbrella the outcome would be any different?  Secondly, I disagree that his ego encouraged him to be president.  The Clintons encouraged him to run.  He's done nothing but hand Hillary the White House since he jumped into the arena.  There is a likelihood that his ego has taken over since then and Trump could very well be stabbing them in the back ... Bill didn't look at all pleased with being the focus of adultery and rape again ... as for Hillary ... she seems to be one step ahead of him.

All this is certainly hypothetical.  The only way we would really know if Trump is actually even remotely sincere is if he's actually voted in and makes good on his campaign promises....I definitely don't see that happening.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #309 on: October 12, 2016, 12:55:51 am »
They do not know better.   They are just certain in their ignorance and in a position to make their ignorance apply.   

And no,  the question of Cruz has not been determined in any court.   It is Obama's status which was challenged in various courts,  (some of them Federal,  but most of them State courts.)  and most often the case was rejected because the courts did not believe ordinary citizens had "standing"  to sue  for court intervention.   
Which is what I have been saying all along: no one can sue in court because of lack of standing. If it were possible, you know one of the candidates would have tried: particularly a lesser-known one who saw an opportunity to knock off a better-funded opponent. Yet no one did, because they knew it would lose.

Quote
the case of Rogers v Bellei was decided by the Supreme court,  and the circumstances of Aldo Mario Bellei are exactly the same circumstances as Ted Cruz.   
Bellei was not running for President, the only circumstance in which there is any distinction. (By the way, the law under which the Bellei case was tried was also repealed, not that it particularly matters in this case.)

Once again, the Trump birthers are deliberately and wrongly conflating natural-born citizenship with 14th Amendment birthright citizenship. That form of permanent, irrevocable citizenship did not even exist at the time the phrase "natural born citizen" was coined. The two concepts are not one and the same.

Quote
The court explicitly said that such citizens as were created by statute are subject to the requirements congress places in such naturalization statutes.   The court explicitly held that Bellei was a naturalized citizen.
No, it didn't. Bellei was born a citizen, but not under 14th Amendment permanent birthright, and thus could lose his citizenship.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:56:51 am by jmyrlefuller »
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #310 on: October 12, 2016, 01:04:34 am »
The Constitution is vague about the subject.


The Constitution is not vague,  it is completely silent.   The only word defined in it is "Treason".   As Madison said:


Quote


What could the Convention have done? If they had in general terms declared the Common law to be in force, they would have broken in upon the legal Code of every State in the most material points: they wd. have done more, they would have brought over from G.B. a thousand heterogeneous & antirepublican doctrines, and even the ecclesiastical Hierarchy itself, for that is a part of the Common law. If they had undertaken a discrimination, they must have formed a digest of laws, instead of a Constitution.



The meaning of "natural born citizen" cannot be discerned from the Constitution,   it must be gleaned from where the term came into the vernacular of that era.   



Therefore statute has always been used to make these determinations.


There are no statutes defining "natural born citizens",  there are only statutes defining the requirement/conditions  for naturalized citizens.    "Natural citizens"  cannot be defined by man made laws,  they are the consequence of "natural law"  which the founders cited in the Declaration of independence.    To the founders,  the idea of defining a "natural citizen"  would make as much sense as a law defining pi.   





Two honest questions, respectfully offered - has the Supreme Court ruled on whats a 'natural born citizen',


They have only touched on the subject,  but never offered more than an opinion about what it means.   In other words it was "dicta"  not a holding.    There are several Supreme Court cases in which they make it clear that they believe the Vattel definition applies, the latest being Minor v Happersett. (1875)The Earliest of which I can think,  being the case of "The Venus."   (1814)



and what do you know about the issue, that were missed by the multiple federal courts in which challenges to Cruz's eligibility (as implied by their ruling he is eligible to be on the ballot in their respective states) have been found to have no merit, that would cause him to be found ineligible in the future?


Nobody challenged Cruz's eligibility.   For the last couple of years I have argued that no one would challenge his eligibility until it was too late for us to pick someone else.   Then they would try him in the arena of public opinion.    (and probably in court too.)   


All of the challenges were to Obama's eligibility,  and as for what I know that the Federal courts missed?   Quite a lot actually.    This is not an issue of law that law schools spend any time on.   They simply cite "United States v Wong Kim Ark" as the defining case,  and leave the impression that this precedent decides the whole matter.   


They do this by equating "citizen"  to "natural born citizen"  with the assumption being that they mean the exact same thing.    They don't.   


In any case,  the entire controversy regarding Obama (supposing he actually was born within the United States)   hinges on whether the founders intended the English Common law understanding to apply,  or whether they intended the Emmerich Vattel "Law of Nations"  definition to apply.   


I have developed what I believe is a compelling argument to tip the scales in the direction of Vattel's "Law of Nations" definition.   


I'll trot it out directly.   
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #311 on: October 12, 2016, 01:16:51 am »
There you go again, twisting and contorting what is there into something that isn't. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If one is regarded as a natural born citizen in the eyes of the law, and the Constitution is law, then the person is eligible.


And I thought only Bill Clinton was unsure of what "is"  is.    The word "Regarded"  does not mean the same thing as "is."    You can regard four quarters as as  a dollar,   but it isn't.   



Thus, if one can be arbitrarily declared one, it is an inherently meaningless and arbitrary phrase.


"Deemed and Considered"  does not mean "is."   The fact is,  those declarations by those states were "honorary"  and not real.   Clearly the Marquis De La Fayette  was not even a citizen,  let alone a "natural" citizen.   They simply granted him all the legal rights of one,  though he was not actually a citizen.   

In those days,  dual citizenship was not comprehended.  The Marquis was and remained a Subject  of King Louis XVI. 


Please make a note of that word Subject.   We will come back to it later.   
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #312 on: October 12, 2016, 01:25:38 am »
And when you're a star they let you do it

consenting female, not an assault. Plus he was just bragging in some private "man talk". The whole thing is ridiculous, there is no there there. Just another attempt by the media and the uniparty to take down Trump. 

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #313 on: October 12, 2016, 01:27:39 am »

And I thought only Bill Clinton was unsure of what "is"  is.    The word "Regarded"  does not mean the same thing as "is."    You can regard four quarters as as  a dollar,   but it isn't.   
In the eyes of the law, four quarters are a dollar. If you owe a $1.00 tax, if you pay with four quarters, it is just as much paid in full as it is if you pay with a one-dollar bill.

You are extrapolating something in that word out of thin air.

Quote
"Deemed and Considered"  does not mean "is."   The fact is,  those declarations by those states were "honorary"  and not real.
Virginia resident and President Thomas Jefferson would beg to differ, as it was his opinion that the Marquis being declared a natural born citizen in the eyes of Virginia law made him eligible for U.S. offices if he wanted them. (The Marquis had returned to France by this point.)

Quote
Clearly the Marquis De La Fayette  was not even a citizen,  let alone a "natural" citizen.   They simply granted him all the legal rights of one,  though he was not actually a citizen.
All of the legal rights, including the Presidency should he seek it. It is a distinction of dogma—not of function, not even of semantics, but pure dogma, based on the false assumption that only 14th Amendment Birthright, which did not exist at the time the phrase was coined, is the only natural born citizenship.

Quote
In those days,  dual citizenship was not comprehended.
That's a dubious assertion. 

Quote
The Marquis was and remained a Subject  of King Louis XVI. 

Please make a note of that word Subject.   We will come back to it later.
The same King Louis XVI who was, in short order, overthrown, which would have thrown any French subject's citizenship into serious doubt.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #314 on: October 12, 2016, 01:29:36 am »
I had considered the 'conversion' idea and Trump being opportunistic when he first announced his run for the presidency.  I considered he couldn't run under the DEM umbrella because he couldn't compete with Hillary.  But if you look at the logic for a moment, if he couldn't compete under the DEM umbrella what makes you think competing under the GOP umbrella the outcome would be any different?



Have you not been following the news?  (see wikileaks )   The Democrat system is rigged.  At least running as a Republican he had half a chance of actually beating a Dem candidate.   In the Dem system,  none at all.   


  Secondly, I disagree that his ego encouraged him to be president.  The Clintons encouraged him to run.


Both things are true.   If you have been keeping up with Trump's doings for the last several decades,  you might have noticed that pretty much everything he has ever done in his life was some form of stroking his own ego.   "Trump! This!"  "Trump! That!"    Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump! Trump.   

Trump is a complete narcissist,  and he has arrived at a point in his life where the only honor of any significance which he can possibly bestow on himself is 'President!"     It's really just about his over inflated ego.   





He's done nothing but hand Hillary the White House since he jumped into the arena.  There is a likelihood that his ego has taken over since then and Trump could very well be stabbing them in the back ... Bill didn't look at all pleased with being the focus of adultery and rape again ... as for Hillary ... she seems to be one step ahead of him.


The media are handing it to Hillary.   Trump is pissing them off by fighting back.   Do not mistake him.   He is mostly motivated by his need for adulation,  and he is only running to achieve what he regards as the highest social status he can obtain.   "Number 1".   "Big Dog Daddy."  "The Boss."   





All this is certainly hypothetical.  The only way we would really know if Trump is actually even remotely sincere is if he's actually voted in and makes good on his campaign promises....I definitely don't see that happening.


I do,  because it would lower his perceived social status if he is seen as reneging on his promises.   His enemies will say "Ah  HA! "   and his Friends will lose respect for him.   

The Wall he will definitely build.  He's invested too much of his own credibility in that promise.   I *think*  he will honor his commitment to appoint conservative judges.   He is certainly more likely to do it than is Hillary.   


But it really is a crap shoot on the one hand, (Trump)  and jumping into the fire on the other.  (Hillary) 


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Offline Emjay

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #315 on: October 12, 2016, 01:46:54 am »

Did we not just watch the same primary election?   Did you not see the media claiming he Lied about Ben Carson stopping his campaign?   Did you not see the media repeating the allegations that Cruz engaged in Adultery?   

It doesn't matter if he is innocent,   the media will make crap up.   Remember the accusations that George HW Bush had an affair?   Remember the accusations that McCain had an affair?   Remember the headlines that Romney put a dog on his car roof,  and that he once cut the hair of a kid in school? 


The media will spread lies,  and if they can't find any,  they will create them.    They already hated Cruz for his filibuster of the government,  and they were going to portray him as that evil Republican that shut down the government because he hates poor people.


Do not think that being squeaky clean is any defense against them.   They will force you to deny false claims all day and every day so long as they can get away with it.

You are right about the media (for the most part) but wrong about the people.  People know about media bias and they are not controlled by it.  Most people can see past it.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #316 on: October 12, 2016, 01:48:21 am »
Yes he is and he is not a natural born citizen of these United States.

May I please violate the forum rules just this once and call you idiot?  Moderator?  Moderator?
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #317 on: October 12, 2016, 01:51:34 am »
@DiogenesLamp

And?

I've forgotten how to block people.  I desperately need to no longer see posts from DiogenesLamp.  I saw plenty of him on TOS and he is not only excessively wordy but he won't stop talking.  Can you tell me how?
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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #318 on: October 12, 2016, 01:53:28 am »
May I please violate the forum rules just this once and call you idiot?

 :beer:

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #319 on: October 12, 2016, 01:55:13 am »
I've forgotten how to block people.  I desperately need to no longer see posts from DiogenesLamp.  I saw plenty of him on TOS and he is not only excessively wordy but he won't stop talking.  Can you tell me how?

Click Modify Profile.  Scroll down to Block/Ignore.  Add the bastard to your list.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #320 on: October 12, 2016, 01:59:44 am »
Click Modify Profile.  Scroll down to Block/Ignore.  Add the bastard to your list.

Thank you!!!  Thank God and Greyhound, he's gone !!!
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #321 on: October 12, 2016, 02:24:07 am »
@jpsb

Nope, wrong.  Firstly, Giuliani admitted on TV that what Trump described was assault.  A former prosecutor should know.

Secondly, here are Trump's exact words:

"I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the bleep. You can do anything."

So he said his habit was to approach women and just kiss them without asking---and they let him do it.  He kissed them and they didn't do anything after it happened.  Then----you can do it because you're a star, you can do anything, grab them by the p***y.  The grabbing and groping is an extension of the kissing.  And let's face it, do gropers ask before they grope?  Do you think Trump asked anyone, hey, can I grab you down there?  Of course he didn't, especially if he didn't ask to kiss them.  He's saying he did it, and the women let him get away with it because they were intimidated by his status.

There is no way for Trump lackeys to weasel out of it, hard as they may be trying.

Trump sexually assaulted every single woman that this happened to.

The only question is, how many different women did he molest in his life?

How many women did he harm, humiliate and shame just because he had the power and money to get away with it?

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #322 on: October 12, 2016, 02:32:54 am »

And no,  the question of Cruz has not been determined in any court.

There plenty of states that studied the issue and gave Ted a green light

Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #323 on: October 12, 2016, 02:36:25 am »
Thank you!!!  Thank God and Greyhound, he's gone !!!

One of the most annoying, arrogant Trumplovers ever to appear on this forum.

Glad you only see his remains.   :beer:

(It's amazing how much he spams, isn't it?  Kinda like he's suffering from diarrhea of the fingers).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Laura Ingraham: We've been waiting for this moment
« Reply #324 on: October 12, 2016, 02:57:26 am »
There is no way for Trump lackeys to weasel out of it, hard as they may be trying.

Trump sexually assaulted every single woman that this happened to.

What part of consent do you not understand?

con·sent
kənˈsent/
noun
    1.
    permission for something to happen or agreement to do something.
   
verb
    1.
    give permission for something to happen.