OFFICIAL DEBATE THREAD: Trump vs. Clinton September 26

[Bigun]

The country has changed (since LBJ) it is no longer Ds vrs Rs, it is now a battle between Marxists/Fascists/Globalists vrs Patriots. Trump is a Patriot, Hillary is a Marxist/Fascist/Globalist.

And you base that on exactly what?

[andy58-in-nh]

I wound up not watching much of the debate last night, owing to the fact that it quite literally bored me to sleep. Or perhaps it was the scotch.

Either way, I found it to be a cringe-worthy spectacle, as a morning-after review of the proceedings has confirmed.

On one side, we have Hillary!^®: utterly dishonest but cunningly disciplined. On the other, we have The Donald: utterly undisciplined and honestly unable to complete a single coherent thought.

After struggling to get her bearings for the first 15 minutes or so, I thought the Hildabeast ate him alive. She got under his skin and stayed there, which she had to know would be no great challenge unless Trump suddenly decided to change a lifetime of habit, which is no more likely for him than it would be for her.   

[Norm Lenhart]

12 hours later the trumpanzee "spin is in"

Trump is a shitty debater.  but it doesn't matter cuz he's a patriot.

I have some "Insight for Trump's apologists as well

'Like a dog': Donald Trump impersonates Mitt Romney 'choking' in the 2012 election

    Pamela Engel

    Apr. 12, 2016, 6:10 PM

Donald Trump livened up his Tuesday rally in Rome, New York, with an impression of former Republican nominee Mitt Romney supposedly "choking" in the 2012 presidential election.

After lamenting the fact that Republicans haven't won an election in the last two cycles, he called out the former Massachusetts governor for failing to beat President Barack Obama in 2012. Romney, who has been critical of the current Republican frontrunner, and Trump have engaged in a long-running back and forth during the 2016 cycle.

"The RNC hasn't won an important election in a long time," Trump said. "We've had Obama far too long."

He then punctuated his point by grabbing his neck to imitate Romney "choking."

"The last election should have been won, except Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went," Trump paused to grab his neck and imitate choking and then said, "I can't breathe! I can't breathe, he said."

He continued: "Romney choked. ... Romney can't recover from a choke."

Trump contended that Romney "went into a house" and "disappeared" for the last month of the 2012 election.

"What the hell happened to him?" Trump asked.

He then acknowledged that he endorsed Romney in 2012.

"You wouldn't believe this, but I actually backed him, raised a lot of money and other things, and he failed," Trump said.
---------------

I hear Trump isn't gonna do more debates. That is like going into a house for the last month of an election.

Hopefully Romney has the balls to do the "Grabs neck imitates Trump choking in Hillary debate" pose.

[aligncare]

Does using the term Trumpanzee help you somehow? I don't understand why you insist on dragging the discussion, and the site, to that level.

It embarrasses everyone who is involved with this, when the thread devolves to playground 'zingers'.

But whatever. I have to get to work anyway.

JMHO, 'Trumpanzee' is used to ridicule Mr. Trump's supporters as a (desperate and futile) attempt to humiliate and silence them – it makes the slinger of slur feel somehow superior. Plus, it comforts them in their feelings of insecurity and loss of control. It's as old as politics itself.

Anyway, just my humble opinion.

[Gov Bean Counter]

As I had predicted for months; Trump absolutely choked!!  He can't debate on the issues because he has no in depth knowledge. He was slouched over (granted the mike was short -- doesn't he have the brain power to adjust it?) and he looked sloppy, he spoke sloppily and his whole debate was a total mess.  When he spoke he kept repeating the same things over and over and then he would tell people to believe him.  He spoke like a 5th grader. He is not articulate nor does he have any charismatic, presidential attributes.

10 minutes into the debate I knew he was in trouble and I am 110% convinced that he has been in this from the very beginning to hand Hillary the White House; and he did exactly that last night.

You nailed it. I could only shake my head in disbelief at the local media sycophants who claim Donny will get better in the next debate and take advantage of all the lost opportunities. Last night was as good as it is going to get. Trump has neither the raw intellect nor the depth of understanding on the issues to elevate his performance. In fact the next debate could be worse.

[Wingnut]

I have some "Insight for Trump's apologists as well

'Like a dog': Donald Trump impersonates Mitt Romney 'choking' in the 2012 election

    Pamela Engel

    Apr. 12, 2016, 6:10 PM

Donald Trump livened up his Tuesday rally in Rome, New York, with an impression of former Republican nominee Mitt Romney supposedly "choking" in the 2012 presidential election.

After lamenting the fact that Republicans haven't won an election in the last two cycles, he called out the former Massachusetts governor for failing to beat President Barack Obama in 2012. Romney, who has been critical of the current Republican frontrunner, and Trump have engaged in a long-running back and forth during the 2016 cycle.

"The RNC hasn't won an important election in a long time," Trump said. "We've had Obama far too long."

He then punctuated his point by grabbing his neck to imitate Romney "choking."

"The last election should have been won, except Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went," Trump paused to grab his neck and imitate choking and then said, "I can't breathe! I can't breathe, he said."

He continued: "Romney choked. ... Romney can't recover from a choke."

Trump contended that Romney "went into a house" and "disappeared" for the last month of the 2012 election.

"What the hell happened to him?" Trump asked.

He then acknowledged that he endorsed Romney in 2012.

"You wouldn't believe this, but I actually backed him, raised a lot of money and other things, and he failed," Trump said.
---------------

I hear Trump isn't gonna do more debates. That is like going into a house for the last month of an election.

Hopefully Romney has the balls to do the "Grabs neck imitates Trump choking in Hillary debate" pose.

When it comes down to it, Trump is a small man with delusions of adequacy.  Last night he proved he is not a person who should ever be let near the White House.

[Norm Lenhart]

When it comes down to it, Trump is a small man with delusions of adequacy.  Last night he proved he is not a person who should ever be let near the White House.

And like I say, his supporters live through him vicariously as well. So between the two, they make a well matched pair of deluded mediocrity.

[Wingnut]

And like I say, his supporters live through him vicariously as well. So between the two, they make a well matched pair of deluded mediocrity.

If anyone (but the true believers who worship the Orange Jesus)  didn't see the train wreck called Donald coming, last nights performance removed all doubt that trump is not your ordinary idiot.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I did too.

I have been forced to consider that I expect something from our candidates that differs from what the majority want.

So, I have no friggin idea how well or poorly Trump did last night. To me he looked like the buffoon he always has.

Exactly! I don't understand why they Trump choked. That's how he has always been in debates. If that's choking then he has choked since last spring.

[240B]

If Trump refused to do another debate after last night it would be viewed as a forfeit win by Clinton.

"Look! Trump is so scared he won't even come out of his corner for round2."

That perception would be disastrous for Trump. It would be even worse than losing the debate.

Like Rocky and every other fight movie ever made, we all know that he has to get beat up in the first round. The hero always does.

[libertybele]

If anyone (but the true believers who worship the Orange Jesus)  didn't see the train wreck called Donald coming, last nights performance removed all doubt that trump is not your ordinary idiot.

   Yes indeed ... you just can't make stupid, smart!

[Wingnut]

Exactly! I don't understand why they Trump choked. That's how he has always been in debates. If that's choking then he has choked since last spring.

His past chokes were contained to the RNC faithful.  This time Trump choked the chicken at the big boy table for all to see.

[musiclady]

You nailed it. I could only shake my head in disbelief at the local media sycophants who claim Donny will get better in the next debate and take advantage of all the lost opportunities. Last night was as good as it is going to get. Trump has neither the raw intellect nor the depth of understanding on the issues to elevate his performance. In fact the next debate could be worse.

And I might add that, as a narcissist and dullard, he hasn't even got the intellectual curiosity to investigate issues with which he is completely ignorant.

He will never improve from the idiocy in which he now wallows because he thinks he's perfect already.

[libertybele]

If Trump refused to do another debate after last night it would be viewed as a forfeit win by Clinton.

"Look! Trump is so scared he won't even come out of his corner for round2."

That perception would be disastrous for Trump. It would be even worse than losing the debate.

Like Rocky and every other fight movie ever made, we all know that he has to get beat up in the first round. The hero always does.

On the other hand, Hillary can refuse to do another debate and can state that he was an embarrassment and she doesn't want to waste her time with another debate.  Unfortunately, she would not only get away with it, but it would pretty much cinch the nomination for her.

Trump certainly didn't do himself any favors and surely didn't win over any of the Independent or undecided voters...all by design of course.

[mystery-ak]

Exactly! I don't understand why they Trump choked. That's how he has always been in debates. If that's choking then he has choked since last spring.

Upon reflection of last night's debate I don't think Trump did as bad as I initially thought...that said he should go out today and admit he didn't do as well as he had hoped..and don't blame Holt...tell people he is not a politician and not a debater but a doer..use some self-deprecating humor....jmo

[Wingnut]

Upon reflection of last night's debate I don't think Trump did as bad as I initially thought...that said he should go out today and admit he didn't do as well as he had hoped..and don't blame Holt...tell people he is not a politician and not a debater but a doer..use some self-deprecating humor....jmo

What you are suggesting he do would be totally alien to his nature.   The man could no more act civil and humble than a fish can breath air. 

[pjohns]

A lot depends upon whether one looks to substance or style.

In terms of substance, I think Donald Trump clearly was far superior to Hillary Clinton.

In terms of style, however, Hillary Clinton projected a warm and happy image (as much as she can, anyway); whereas Donald Trump seemed dour and annoyed whenever the camera did a split screen.

And far too many, I believe, look to style as a determining factor. 

Karl Rove may have summed it up nicely when he said, basically, that Donald Trump did nothing to disqualify himself; so he will live to fight another day.

[aligncare]

Upon reflection of last night's debate I don't think Trump did as bad as I initially thought...that said he should go out today and admit he didn't do as well as he had hoped..and don't blame Holt...tell people he is not a politician and not a debater but a doer..use some self-deprecating humor....jmo

Donald Trump will do what he's been doing all along; bypass the mainstream media and go directly to the thousands of people at his two and three-a-day rallies and through the online coverage of these events.

He will simply reach the folks by outworking Hillary – and Hillary won't be able to respond – even with the help of a complicit main stream media.

She's corrupt and unlikable and people know it. Trump's poll numbers will no doubt continue to inch up beyond Hillary's.

[LilLamb]

I listened to the debate while I was at work last night.  I've been trying to catch up on this thread. I've seen people talking about Holt being a lefty. For what it's worth, he is a registered Republican.

My thoughts on the debate. Trump needs to keep the makeup artist from last night. He looks so much better in a lighter shade of orange and no white raccoon eyes.

Trump started out sounding very presidential, then it went downhill from there.  I came away from the debate thinking only one thing, we are truly screwed.

[240B]

JMHO, 'Trumpanzee' is used to ridicule Mr. Trump's supporters as a (desperate and futile) attempt to humiliate and silence them – it makes the slinger of slur feel somehow superior. Plus, it comforts them in their feelings of insecurity and loss of control. It's as old as politics itself.

Anyway, just my humble opinion.

Next time just remind him that you are rubber and he is glue.

He should run and tell Mom, then cry for little while then take a nap.

[CSM]

@Norm Lenhart

It was the best snort, and believe me, I know all about snorting.  We're going to have so much snorting you'll get sick of it!

I'm actually logging in to listen to Rush.  I haven't listened in over a year, but I am curious if he has any intellectual honesty left in him....

[CSM]

Rush:  "He didn't do anything last night that will cause his supporters to re-think their position."

Yep, he could literally shoot someone on 5th avenue and his supporters would still support him.

Keep spinning Rush.  I now have an answer to my question above.

[Idiot]

I'm actually logging in to listen to Rush.  I haven't listened in over a year, but I am curious if he has any intellectual honesty left in him....

Listening now....he's in full support Trump mode.

[guitar4jesus]

Listening now....he's in full support Trump mode.

I lasted about 3 minutes...

[CSM]

Perhaps this may offer some insight for you.

I kept hearing “Trump was disappointing in the debate.” Okay, agree. But what do debating skills have to do with being an effective president?

The country is tired of professional politicians who debate “real good.” We need real people whose real life experiences are in the real world of business, commerce and trade – the real world of real people, not these politicians who only know politics, and giving the business to WE THE PEOPLE in smokey back rooms of Washington DC.

We’re not here to pick a debater. We’re interested in people who inhabit our world and have good judgment. Donald Trump has that, Hillary doesn’t (just list all her failings in policy, in sos performance, in incompetency and corruption here).

In the spirit in which this was given, I hope this helps you to understand another's perspective.  I wish you clarity in this important decision. 

How does a person "make better deals" if they can't debate better?  Understanding facts and effective communication is parmount to making good deals in business.  I am beginning to doubt that he has ever actually negotiated.  I suspect he simply dictates and uses the weight of his influence in the political ruling class to command his way in the business world!

In addition, there is no way that the Trumps "inhabit our world."  In fact, they have no concept of the average day for the normal American.  To think otherwise is projection...