Author Topic: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump  (Read 128647 times)

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Silver Pines

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1025 on: September 29, 2016, 04:30:04 pm »

Geez......



Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1026 on: September 29, 2016, 07:40:53 pm »
You quoted @INVAR and then said "Exactly".

I'll admit when I've screwed up in wrongly attributing something to someone, but I think for me to infer that your "Exactly" signified agreement with his statement was a reasonable inference.
Okay, so let's argue about the Quote from the article @INVAR was quoting. Here is the link, http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omarosa-critics-bow-down-trump and the quote, in its entirety (albeit this is an excerpt from the article)
Quote
The most striking comment in the trailer comes from Manigault, the former "Apprentice" contestant who now serves as the Trump campaign's director of African-American outreach. She paints an ominous picture when she suggests that a big motivation for Trump's candidacy is making his haters "bow down" to him.

“Donald Trump is running for president because he really, truly believes he can turn the country around," she said. "More importantly, every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to President Trump.”

So, what there did she not say?
Why did she say it if she didn't mean it?

It is from the article @INVAR cited and commented on, which is the comment which I commented on. Find fault with the quote, then. It is roughly at 3:10 in the trailer.


http://youtu.be/yYMEvuZz1RU
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1027 on: September 29, 2016, 07:53:38 pm »
Okay, so let's argue about the Quote from the article @INVAR was quoting. Here is the link, http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omarosa-critics-bow-down-trump and the quote, in its entirety (albeit this is an excerpt from the article)
So, what there did she not say?
Why did she say it if she didn't mean it?

It is from the article @INVAR cited and commented on, which is the comment which I commented on. Find fault with the quote, then. It is roughly at 3:10 in the trailer.


http://youtu.be/yYMEvuZz1RU

She doesn't sound terribly bright.  Bright people rarely get elective boob jobs, let alone boob jobs that jump about five cup sizes.  It's not healthy.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1028 on: September 29, 2016, 07:58:10 pm »
She doesn't sound terribly bright.  Bright people rarely get elective boob jobs, let alone boob jobs that jump about five cup sizes.  It's not healthy.

You got that right. It ain't healthy. My brother's third wife got some silicone implants during a previous marriage. One of them got to leaking and she had them removed. (Before my bro met her) That silicone in her system killed her.

Trump is a silicone implant. Looks good from the outside to those who like that. Poison on the inside.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 07:59:43 pm by bigheadfred »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1029 on: September 29, 2016, 07:59:31 pm »
She doesn't sound terribly bright.  Bright people rarely get elective boob jobs, let alone boob jobs that jump about five cup sizes.  It's not healthy.

I suppose having brains in your boobs is a step up from having them in your butt.

Then again - cosmetic butt enlargement is all the rage these days.
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1030 on: September 29, 2016, 08:06:04 pm »
I must admit I took a bit of a risk making that observation, which is why I couched my words with "elective."  Somebody could have really jumped on me for it for being a "shallow Hal."  But I looked up her images on Google, and she had enormous bolt-ons installed.   The kind you see on porn stars.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline kartographer

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1031 on: September 30, 2016, 03:04:30 am »
Talk about not being serious....

In what universe do you take every stupid statement someone makes and accept it as fact?  If Omarosa said that Trump was going to sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back, would you accept that as fact?  Then why pass off as fact her asinine statement that everyone will have to "bow down" to Trump???

No, everyone will not have to bow down to Trump.  Nor will they have to bow down to Hillary either, for that matter.  That, at least, is well beyond the ability of either of them to enforce.

It seems to me that you haven't been paying much attention to what is going on or you purposely choose not to, which is the most likely answer.

If a Trumpster post  that Trump is going to sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back you had best not post something to the contrary, because you instantly become an enemy of the Trump State, you are labeled a GOPe, Globalist, Neocon, RINO, CFR, Goldman Sach's lick boot Hillary lover of the most loathsome of nature and a traitor to the Republic, which requires that you be placed on a watch list of like minded others who will be address once Trump is in office.

In fact just that you posted something that it was not reasonable that Trump could actually sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back most likely at the very least placed you of some loyal Trumpkins RADAR and may even gotten your own name placed on a list sonewhere of those with questionable loyalty to 'The Donald'.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 03:10:25 am by kartographer »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1032 on: September 30, 2016, 03:42:27 am »
It seems to me that you haven't been paying much attention to what is going on or you purposely choose not to, which is the most likely answer.

If a Trumpster post  that Trump is going to sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back you had best not post something to the contrary, because you instantly become an enemy of the Trump State, you are labeled a GOPe, Globalist, Neocon, RINO, CFR, Goldman Sach's lick boot Hillary lover of the most loathsome of nature and a traitor to the Republic, which requires that you be placed on a watch list of like minded others who will be address once Trump is in office.

In fact just that you posted something that it was not reasonable that Trump could actually sprout wings and fly to the Sun and back most likely at the very least placed you of some loyal Trumpkins RADAR and may even gotten your own name placed on a list sonewhere of those with questionable loyalty to 'The Donald'.
Quote
The most striking comment in the trailer comes from Manigault, the former "Apprentice" contestant who now serves as the Trump campaign's director of African-American outreach. She paints an ominous picture when she suggests that a big motivation for Trump's candidacy is making his haters "bow down" to him.

“Donald Trump is running for president because he really, truly believes he can turn the country around," she said. "More importantly, every critic, every detractor will have to bow down to President Trump.”
If you go to the link, scroll down the page and watch the video,http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omarosa-critics-bow-down-trump
at 3:10 she says it.

http://youtu.be/yYMEvuZz1RU
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1033 on: September 30, 2016, 03:48:25 am »
I must admit I took a bit of a risk making that observation, which is why I couched my words with "elective."  Somebody could have really jumped on me for it for being a "shallow Hal."  But I looked up her images on Google, and she had enormous bolt-ons installed.   The kind you see on porn stars.

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Offline verga

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1034 on: September 30, 2016, 11:28:51 am »
She doesn't sound terribly bright.  Bright people rarely get elective boob jobs, let alone boob jobs that jump about five cup sizes.  It's not healthy.
@Cyber Liberty This thread is useless with out pictures.
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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1035 on: September 30, 2016, 11:30:25 am »
I must admit I took a bit of a risk making that observation, which is why I couched my words with "elective."  Somebody could have really jumped on me for it for being a "shallow Hal."  But I looked up her images on Google, and she had enormous bolt-ons installed.   The kind you see on porn stars.
@Cyber Liberty And yet still no pictures.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1036 on: September 30, 2016, 11:33:31 am »
@Cyber Liberty And yet still no pictures.

The kind you see on porn stars.

And apparently he has seen plenty. Seems a bit selfish here.  :silly:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1037 on: September 30, 2016, 11:35:27 am »
The kind you see on porn stars.

And apparently he has seen plenty. Seems a bit selfish here.  :silly:
How is this keeping people abreast of the latest developments? :tongue2:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jpsb

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1038 on: September 30, 2016, 12:33:02 pm »
Exactly. Those who refuse to see the rebranding of "conservative" taking place, and with it "Republican" are being willfully blind to the facts.

Since when has it been acceptable to have a Republican candidate for POTUS who donated conspicuously to Democrats, especially some of the most rabid ones?

Newt was discarded as a candidate for his marital affairs, but Trump is OK?

When do we back someone who has such obvious contempt for women, based on nothing but their physical appearance? (Conservatism has a long heritage of being Chivalrous, is that so easily discarded?)

The republican Party has not been "conservative" since Hoover. The country stopped being a Constitutional Republic under Wilson when the USA adopted a progressive income tax and the Federal Reserve System. Ever since then it has been to goal of the oligarchy known has the federal government and banking partner to steal has much wealth as possible from the American people.

The battle is not really between so called liberals and so called conservatives. The battle is us vrs them. Us are those tired of being ripped off by incompetent warmongering elites that want to take away the few "rights" we have left. Them is the unipary and those that serve or are owned by the uniparty.

Neither H.W.Bush nor W. Bush were any where near being conservative. McCain was not a conservative and neither was Romney. All of them, the Clintons, Obama and every one in leadership in Congress are gold plated members of the uniparty (previously mentioned as the oligarchy). Until you get this into your head you will by default be a servant of oligarchy. As you are now by your constant bashing of the one man that threatens to crash the party and actually implement policies that are good for the American people.

You judge a person not by the friends they have, judge them my the enemies they have. Trump has the most impressive list of enemies I have ever seen.  Every servant of Mortor is out to take down Trump. The bad news is that if you take down Trump you get Hillary, the most evil, cowardly, incompetent, uniparty Marxist ever to run for office.

The nation will not survive President Hillary Clinton. She would be Obama on steroids. She has already promised to begin the destruction of the United States within her first 100 days! She would get us into a war with Russia and China just to prove how tough she is. No Hillary is unthinkable.

The argument that Trump is a liberal is meaningless, so what? Even if that was true (it's not) at least he is not uniparty, not owned by the uniparty and not beholden to the uniparty.

With Trump there is a chance we can stop the Marxist Globalist take over of the USA, with Hillary they (the Marxist Globalists) will own us.  So you see this election is all about us vrs them. Forget all the labels, it's the people vrs the ruling elites and like it or not Trump is leading the people.

@Smokin Joe
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 12:46:01 pm by jpsb »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1039 on: September 30, 2016, 12:42:13 pm »
@Cyber Liberty And yet still no pictures.

I did a Google search.  Pretty easy actually.  And, when it comes to that, I admit I am a bit selfish.   :whistle:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1040 on: September 30, 2016, 01:00:54 pm »
Grace? Excuse me? Where were you while packs of Cruz supporters and assorted #NeverTrumpers ganged up on and ravaged with streams of vile insults the handful of Trump supporters here?

No no no, this doesn't just end with the cult leader Cruz endorsing Trump. No, it's not that easy. It doesn't just stop with that.

The way you people HERE treated Trump supporters was nothing less than shameful and I won't soon forget that.

While I agree with you I think you are making the Major's point. If you goal is to win people over to your way of thinking then don't bash them when they do.  On the other hand if your goal is payback, bash away.  Just understand you are only cementing their opposition to whatever it is you are selling. 

@aligncare
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1041 on: September 30, 2016, 01:01:45 pm »
As you are now by your constant bashing of the one man that threatens to crash the party and actually implement policies that are good for the American people.

 

@Smokin Joe
Oh, I'm not denying that there is an oligarchy, there sure is. I wasn't a fan of the Bush Clan, especially after Neil's Silverado S&L bit. But banking manipulation, screwing the 'little' guy, pay for play, Alinsky tactics, media manipulation, the selfsame tactics one candidate uses, the other does, too. You need to wake up to the new, improved, citrus uniparty product you are supporting. He's no more an outsider than Chelsea, he's just been at it longer. As for implementing policies, what do you want, a dictator to restore the Republic? He can't do squat without the oligarchy backing it up. period. So where does that leave you? Going down the same road with a new face, with a blank slate who has promised promises all over the chart, but who has betrayed those he made promises to in the past, and is setting up the biggest con in the history of the country. Do you want a dictator? Otherwise, what is he going to do that the uniparty won't have to vote for?
You can't burn the Constitution to save it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 01:03:13 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jpsb

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1042 on: September 30, 2016, 01:33:13 pm »
He's no more an outsider than Chelsea, he's just been at it longer.

As for implementing policies, what do you want, a dictator to restore the Republic? He can't do squat without the oligarchy backing it up. period.

So where does that leave you? Going down the same road with a new face, with a blank slate who has promised promises all over the chart, but who has betrayed those he made promises to in the past, and is setting up the biggest con in the history of the country. Do you want a dictator? Otherwise, what is he going to do that the uniparty won't have to vote for?
You can't burn the Constitution to save it.

Trump is an "outsider". He has never held a political office and he's never gotten a government paycheck. He is running to reform what he correctly sees as a corrupt system. He is a classic outsider. Just being rich does not make him part of the oligarchy. You know he is a outsider when everyone on the "inside" is attacking him.

Trump promises to build the wall and enforce existing immigration laws. He does not need anything from Congress or the oligarchy to do that. As the chief executive of the United States he is fully authorized to enforce our laws. Congress has already authorized The Wall so all he would need is funding. Also the President conducts foreign policy so once again President Trump needs nothing out of the ordinary to implement his policies (stop training and funding groups like ISIS, renegotiate bad trade deals, halt importing Muslim rapefuges).

Where does that leave me? In a much better USA than Hillary would have.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1043 on: September 30, 2016, 02:07:39 pm »
Trump is an "outsider". He has never held a political office and he's never gotten a government paycheck. He is running to reform what he correctly sees as a corrupt system. He is a classic outsider. Just being rich does not make him part of the oligarchy. You know he is a outsider when everyone on the "inside" is attacking him.

Trump promises to build the wall and enforce existing immigration laws. He does not need anything from Congress or the oligarchy to do that. As the chief executive of the United States he is fully authorized to enforce our laws. Congress has already authorized The Wall so all he would need is funding. Also the President conducts foreign policy so once again President Trump needs nothing out of the ordinary to implement his policies (stop training and funding groups like ISIS, renegotiate bad trade deals, halt importing Muslim rapefuges).

Where does that leave me? In a much better USA than Hillary would have.
He is authorized to enforce our laws, not make them. Without funding there won't be any wall, and what flavor of wall will that be? Virtual wall, physical barrier, a hybrid? What about the places where you can't build a wall, or will ranch land access to water be cut off and the land seized along the Rio Grande? There are 1954 miles of highly varied terrain along that border, and part of it runs down the middle of the river.

Some of the key factors driving business from these United States are regulations from agencies like EPA, OSHA, and an alphabet soup of others, along with laws like the ESA. Just the requirements for surveys along a construction site for Raptors, rare plants, rare/endangered animals, cultural assets and antiquities, protected and sacred ground, etc. along with the EIS will take more than four years. Just getting the ACOE, BLM, USFWS, USFS, NPS, EPA, BIA, Tribal Governments, and others on the same page will be a challenge.

I'm all for controlling the border and immigration. I just realize that routes and methods will change, too, even before any wall is ever done.  Whether they are looking for a home depot to wait in front of, smuggling drugs, or terrorists from far away, they'll find a way in.

But yeah, he is going to need something from Congress. Money, and a lot of it. That funding won't come through 'clean', there will be riders, which means more money, and a lot of that.

Oh yeah, Mexico is going to pay for it... **nononono*

When someone promises to move the moon and stars, color me skeptical.
When they promise it free, I politely advise them to leave my property.

I'm not disagreeing that all those things need to be done: The borders need to be better controlled, we need to keep "radical Islam" out, clamp down on foreign aid, and renegotiate bad trade deals. Keep in mind that the oligarchy put all that stuff there for a reason, their reason, and they aren't going to be any too happy to see it go. It's their pie, and they don't want to lose any of it. Which is a big part of why I have little faith it will get done. As for an outsider, we'll differ. He has bought (well, rented access to) politicians, and those donations have him more involved in politics at higher levels than most Americans. His absence of holding office does not, imho, make him an 'outsider'. He's just been playing from behind the scenes.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1044 on: September 30, 2016, 02:08:21 pm »
It seems to me that you haven't been paying much attention to what is going on or you purposely choose not to, which is the most likely answer.

And it seems very clear to me that you have absolutely no idea of the context in which I made that statement.  The context was asking for evidence of how Trump will actually destroy the conservative movement once in office.  The comparison was Hillary enabling the registration and voting of up to ten million illegal voters, and packing the Supreme Court with progressive activists who will issue rulings finding that much of the progressive agenda is constitutionally mandated.  That is something from which there is no recovery.

In response, I was quoted a serious of stupid statements/ridiculous threats made by some Trump supporters.  I then pointed out that statements like "we'll all have to "bow down" to Trump", or that non-Trump supporters will be "hunted down with dogs" are not reality.  They are braggadocious B.S., and do not reflect what will happen after the election.

Given that you very clearly did not pay attention to what had been said earlier, I'll just ask you directly:

Which do you believe is more likely to actually occur?

A) If Hillary is elected, she will 1) appoint progressive justices who will grant constitutional protections to much of the progressive agenda, and 2) loosen voting and immigration restrictions so as to enable the casting of votes by millions of new voters who should not be eligible; or,

B) If Trump is elected, we will all be forced to bow down to him, and everyone who didn't vote for him will be hunted down like dogs.

Which of those do you think, in reality, is the more plausible scenario?

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1045 on: September 30, 2016, 02:22:06 pm »

Angry people do stupid things, and Trump has already damaged the GOP, conservative credibility, and caused the entire discussion of what is politically acceptable to take a couple of side steps to the Left, further away from the Constitution.


The angry ones.  Not going to take us to a good place.
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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1046 on: September 30, 2016, 02:30:05 pm »
He is authorized to enforce our laws, not make them. Without funding there won't be any wall, and what flavor of wall will that be? Virtual wall, physical barrier, a hybrid? What about the places where you can't build a wall, or will ranch land access to water be cut off and the land seized along the Rio Grande? There are 1954 miles of highly varied terrain along that border, and part of it runs down the middle of the river.

Some of the key factors driving business from these United States are regulations from agencies like EPA, OSHA, and an alphabet soup of others, along with laws like the ESA. Just the requirements for surveys along a construction site for Raptors, rare plants, rare/endangered animals, cultural assets and antiquities, protected and sacred ground, etc. along with the EIS will take more than four years. Just getting the ACOE, BLM, USFWS, USFS, NPS, EPA, BIA, Tribal Governments, and others on the same page will be a challenge.

I'm all for controlling the border and immigration. I just realize that routes and methods will change, too, even before any wall is ever done.  Whether they are looking for a home depot to wait in front of, smuggling drugs, or terrorists from far away, they'll find a way in.

But yeah, he is going to need something from Congress. Money, and a lot of it. That funding won't come through 'clean', there will be riders, which means more money, and a lot of that.

Oh yeah, Mexico is going to pay for it... **nononono*

When someone promises to move the moon and stars, color me skeptical.
When they promise it free, I politely advise them to leave my property.

I'm not disagreeing that all those things need to be done: The borders need to be better controlled, we need to keep "radical Islam" out, clamp down on foreign aid, and renegotiate bad trade deals. Keep in mind that the oligarchy put all that stuff there for a reason, their reason, and they aren't going to be any too happy to see it go. It's their pie, and they don't want to lose any of it. Which is a big part of why I have little faith it will get done. As for an outsider, we'll differ. He has bought (well, rented access to) politicians, and those donations have him more involved in politics at higher levels than most Americans. His absence of holding office does not, imho, make him an 'outsider'. He's just been playing from behind the scenes.

That's all true, and well said.  But even without significant funding, a President and his appointees can still have enormous influence on the regulatory side of things.  There is also the question of enforcement -- the Obama Administration has used the Justice Department as an affirmative tool to advance an agenda many of us oppose, and that has also happened with things like the NLRB, EPA, etc....

Even if Trump is not able to get funding for things like the wall, isn't it still far better to have the administrative agencies using the discretion they do have to push in the other direction?  Because the alternative is going to be a Hillary Administration that is going to actively seek to accelerate all the things we find wrong on the regulatory side of things.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1047 on: September 30, 2016, 09:23:41 pm »
That's all true, and well said.  But even without significant funding, a President and his appointees can still have enormous influence on the regulatory side of things.  There is also the question of enforcement -- the Obama Administration has used the Justice Department as an affirmative tool to advance an agenda many of us oppose, and that has also happened with things like the NLRB, EPA, etc....

Even if Trump is not able to get funding for things like the wall, isn't it still far better to have the administrative agencies using the discretion they do have to push in the other direction?  Because the alternative is going to be a Hillary Administration that is going to actively seek to accelerate all the things we find wrong on the regulatory side of things.
Actually, no. I don't really think it is to our benefit to continue to entrench agencies for which there is no Constitutional Authorization, to continue to fund them nor to grant them legitimacy by saying they are operating in spirit the way we want them to, even if they aren't getting anything done? What is the purpose of such Kabuke other than bamboozling the taxpayer and continuing to usurp the power over lands which should be the property of individuals and under the jurisdiction of the States?
When over half of the land west of the Mississippi is owned by the Federal Government to the detriment of the States, removing that land from productive use, the tax rolls, and preempting the industry which could exist thereby with labyrinthine regulations spread over a plethora of agencies (if even so much as a road is allowed), something is wrong. There is no Constitutional Authority for this. With the exception of military reservations and other specific instances, such as the Federal District, there is no need for land ownership on the Part of the Federal Government, and ABSOLUTELY NO authorization for any international agency to exert any pseudo-governmental authority over so much as one square inch of American Soil. 
The continuing existence of the agencies which perpetrate this upon the American People, replete with funding and staffing and regulations imposed, simply should not happen.

It isn't a question of softening regulatory stances, it is a question of usurped power, period.

 When each successive Administration appears to be competing with the previous one in locking away productive land as a "National Monument", not by the dozens of acres, but by the millions of acres of land, claimed to be henceforth off limits from productive development (IOW, an expense instead of an asset, and a handful more guaranteed Federal Jobs), something is grievously wrong.

When entire industries can be shut down over an owl that only differs from owls which live further south by home address, something is wrong. The only right direction for these sorts of programs is to the ash heap.

Conservation can be practiced by private individuals, especially those who farm/ranch/own the land. They have a vested interest in the continued viability of that land. My ancestors and relatives have owned and farmed the same land for 375 years, but the wise management of those resources, "good stewardship" if you will, is interfered with by governmental decree, with harsh penalties for not obeying the edicts of some agency whose representatives haven't set foot on land, land that the people who are currently managing have lived on and worked for over seventy five years. Even worse, the knowledge acquired by those who have lived and worked on that land is ignored because they don't have a 'degree', which any more is four years of questionable theory with the rubber stamp of the politically influenced mindsets of 'scientific' whim.
It was a government agency which killed the river I grew up on, destroyed the fisheries industry there, and to this day to treats a brackish water tidal estuary like a man made freshwater lake. The regulations imposed preclude the restoration of what was a thriving ecosystem that provided not only food, but a living for many locals, but go even farther to prevent the installation of structures which have traditionally prevented erosion of land, and sedimentation damage to the estuary itself and its fauna.
There is no right direction for such, with the exception of the elimination of such agencies and an end to their usurped authority.
When the fellow you refer to was in Iowa, he pledged to not only support a harmful mandate, but to increase it, and to use one of those agencies to the fullest extent of the law to enforce that mandate. I saw then he was not the person for the job. I have not changed my mind on that.

At the bottom of the current 'movement' masquerading as operating out of concern for the environment are two things: Money, and the elimination of private property and the rights which pertain thereto.

That selfsame agency (EPA) has asserted dominion over the rain that falls on land, the land it falls on, the water that runs off, the water that soaks in, and any low spots it collects in. It has asserted dominion over the plants which grow on that land, the animals which walk on or burrow in it, the birds which fly above it, and the air they fly in and we all breathe.
It has to go, and a host of other agencies along with it. For some things, their very existence is anathema. There is no 'right direction' for their continued existence.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1048 on: September 30, 2016, 10:06:10 pm »
Actually, no. I don't really think it is to our benefit to continue to entrench agencies for which there is no Constitutional Authorization, to continue to fund them nor to grant them legitimacy by saying they are operating in spirit the way we want them to, even if they aren't getting anything done?

I don't understand your point here.  Are you saying we shouldn't elect anyone unless they refuse to staff federal agencies, promise to repeal the APA, and pretend the bureaucracy doesn't exist?

I don't disagree with you that the entire regulatory state is out of control.  I personally think that regulations should not have the force of law unless ratified by Congress, and that the entire structure is unconstitutional.  But expecting an instant, immediate halt to that ignores reality.  What it would take is a serious of Administrations willing to ratchet them back.  And in the meantime, it's better to have agencies staffed by people who are less activist.

I don't see any reasonable basis not to believe that Trump's cabinet would be better in that regard than Hillary's, especially since Hillary's is likely going to exceed it's powers to grant voting rights to people who should not be permitted to vote.

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Re: Cruz: I'm voting for Trump
« Reply #1049 on: September 30, 2016, 10:31:14 pm »

With Trump there is a chance we can stop the Marxist Globalist take over of the USA

Trump & Hillary are on the same side.