Author Topic: Republican friendships shatter over Trump  (Read 39669 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #400 on: September 22, 2016, 03:29:13 am »
NOTICE TO TRUMPSTERS READING OR POSTING TO THIS THREAD: CRUZ IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. YOU NEED TO COME TO TERMS WITH THAT AND QUIT OBSESSING ABOUT HIM.

I think this thread epitomizes it's title.  The divide is irreparable, the discord sown is deep, and indeed - friendships have been shattered because Trump.

Not exactly a unifier, but a demagogue - and his supporters are exhibiting the same demagoguery, having to keep bringing up those who refuse to genuflect and oppose their savior.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Longmire

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #401 on: September 22, 2016, 01:38:37 pm »
@HoustonSam

With the exception of Carson, all of the examples you cited fall short of the mark or are wildly off target.

Fiorina attacked Trump first in a bid to get on the main stage in the debates.

Trump's not donating a million dollars to veterans fast enough is a media inspired red herring, and skipping a debate isn't a dirty trick.

The coordinated attack on Trump's wife came from a pro-Cruz PAC with ties to Fiorina who subsequently joined Cruz on the campaign trail.

The Steve Tyler incident encapsulates the Cruz mindset about dirty campaign tactics.

Tyler re-tweeted something without verifying its authenticity. He quickly deleted the tweet once it's inaccuracy was revealed. He issued a public apology to Rubio.

Not good enough for Cruz who summarily fired his communications director and used the incident to deflect blame for all his campaign's dirty tactics.

It should be noted that the dirty tricks didn't stop with the removal of Tyler, but they did become more nuanced and harder to trace back to Cruz.

If Cruz really wanted to run a clean campaign he never would have hired someone like Jeff Roe to run it.

Trump may be crude and offensive but he didn't play dirty like Cruz.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #402 on: September 22, 2016, 01:50:19 pm »
I think this thread epitomizes it's title.  The divide is irreparable, the discord sown is deep, and indeed - friendships have been shattered because Trump.

Not exactly a unifier, but a demagogue - and his supporters are exhibiting the same demagoguery, having to keep bringing up those who refuse to genuflect and oppose their savior.

They exhibit the same demagoguery and an exasperating obtuseness. In spite of how often they are presented with facts and evidence they continue to repeat the narrative they've been given.

Not all, but enough to give the rest a bad name.

Like doctrinaire leftists there just is no common ground with these folks.

Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #403 on: September 22, 2016, 02:32:36 pm »
@HoustonSam
With the exception of Carson, all of the examples you cited fall short of the mark or are wildly off target.

Fiorina attacked Trump first in a bid to get on the main stage in the debates.

How?  When?  What did she say?

Quote
Trump's not donating a million dollars to veterans fast enough is a media inspired red herring, and skipping a debate isn't a dirty trick.

So it's purely a coincidence that he donated the money the day after the media exposed that he had never done so, and months after he publicly took credit for doing it?  "Fast enough" means donating *before* talking about it, and if he were sincere he wouldn't need to talk about it at all.  No it's not a dirty trick to skip a debate, it's simply cowardice, but all the pro-veteran hype Trump wrapped around it was exposed as a lie when the media called him out on failing to deliver.  Using veterans as props and then lying about it is pretty dirty in my book.

Quote
The coordinated attack on Trump's wife came from a pro-Cruz PAC with ties to Fiorina who subsequently joined Cruz on the campaign trail.

No, it was done by a pro-Rubio PAC.

Quote
The Steve Tyler incident encapsulates the Cruz mindset about dirty campaign tactics.

Tyler re-tweeted something without verifying its authenticity. He quickly deleted the tweet once it's inaccuracy was revealed. He issued a public apology to Rubio.

Not good enough for Cruz who summarily fired his communications director and used the incident to deflect blame for all his campaign's dirty tactics.

Replacing senior campaign staff for falsely disparaging someone else's faith is simply holding them accountable to a principled standard.

Quote
It should be noted that the dirty tricks didn't stop with the removal of Tyler, but they did become more nuanced and harder to trace back to Cruz.

If Cruz really wanted to run a clean campaign he never would have hired someone like Jeff Roe to run it.

If Trump really wanted to "Make America Great Again" he never would have hired someone like Paul Manafort, a lobbyist for Putin, to run his campaign.

Quote
Trump may be crude and offensive but he didn't play dirty like Cruz.

Finally we agree on something, Trump is crude and offensive, so you who support him have a lot of work to do in making his candidacy attractive to the rest of us.  But rather than making Trump look better, you are just making yourself look bad by continuing irrelevant and baseless attacks against Cruz.  Not only do you continue digging when you're in a hole, the hole itself defeats your own purpose.  Kelly Ann Conway seems to have done some good work with Trump in getting him to focus on the actual campaign rather than his childish personal vendettas.  You and other Trump supporters could profit from that example.

Make the best case you can for Trump, leave Cruz out of it, and we'll have no argument.  Otherwise I think we've both made our positions clear and at this point we are pretty much talking past each other.

@Longmire
James 1:20

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #404 on: September 22, 2016, 02:34:52 pm »
Trump may be crude and offensive but he didn't play dirty like Cruz.

You must be joking. Dumbest statement ever.

Wingnut

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #405 on: September 22, 2016, 02:37:47 pm »
You must be joking. Dumbest statement ever.

Well, it all fairness not The Dumbest..... as Trump holds that record. 

But for aTBR member, yeppers... Quaqmire has my vote.

Offline Longmire

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #406 on: September 22, 2016, 02:57:26 pm »
@HoustonSam

A pro-Rubio PAC ran a coordinated attack ad encouraging Utah voters to choose Cruz?

I'll file that under things that didn't happen.

Otherwise, fair enough. 

Offline Longmire

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #407 on: September 22, 2016, 03:03:14 pm »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure Feel free to weigh in on what you consider Trump's dirty campaign tactics were.








Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #408 on: September 22, 2016, 03:06:11 pm »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure Feel free to weigh in on what you consider Trump's dirty campaign tactics were.

I'm too lazy to reply, just Google. Trump actually accused Cruz's father of killing Kennedy, from his own mouth (I believe). Certainly a new low.

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #409 on: September 22, 2016, 03:10:35 pm »
Hmmmm.... Maybe the font was too small. Trying again.

NOTICE TO TRUMPSTERS READING OR POSTING TO THIS THREAD: CRUZ IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. YOU NEED TO COME TO TERMS WITH THAT AND QUIT OBSESSING ABOUT HIM.

@Longmire


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline Longmire

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #410 on: September 22, 2016, 03:15:52 pm »
@AllThatJazzZ  translation: 8888crybaby make it stop...

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #411 on: September 22, 2016, 03:39:34 pm »
Trump's explanation that Cruz's father attacked him first is valid.

In fact Rafael Cruz had been engaging in escalating rhetoric against Trump and his supporters for months.

I'll also note that Cruz dropped out the day after Trump made mention of the Miami Herald article about his father.

As a kill shot it was pretty effective .
It just doesn't matter to you if someone lies does it?
There's an old part of the Cowboy code that says if its not true don't say it.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #412 on: September 22, 2016, 04:23:00 pm »

There's an old part of the Cowboy code that says if its not true don't say it.

It may well be that @Longmire 's cowboy dreams extend no further than his avatar... Just sayin.

Offline CSM

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #413 on: September 22, 2016, 04:27:07 pm »
Now, I will re-examine when some of those are really warmongers like the Bushes and McCain.

In other words, you have a principle that you are not willing to sacrifice for candidates that are not aligned with that principle.

Welcome to the club.


Offline musiclady

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #414 on: September 22, 2016, 04:29:59 pm »
In other words, you have a principle that you are not willing to sacrifice for candidates that are not aligned with that principle.

Welcome to the club.

 :beer:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline CSM

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #415 on: September 22, 2016, 04:31:33 pm »
Because @Longmire it isn't reality.  Cruz's campaign certainly was not perfect, but he focused on issues rather than people until his family was attacked, he worked to maintain party unity by not insulting others in the party and acting toward them graciously when others dropped out, and he accepted accountability and apologized or fired people when his campaign did something wrong.

A down and dirty campaign is one where the candidate insults the face of one competitor and says that another is as pathological as a child molester, announces that he's donating a million dollars to veterans as a reason to skip a debate but then makes no donation until the media exposes that he has failed to do so, and lies about another rival in addition to attacking his wife and father.

You pro-Trump people have a legitimate case that we pro-Cruz types continue to attack Trump.  It's because you insult our intelligence by maintaining that Trump has the slightest shred of respectability, credibility, or intelligence, and by continuing your jihad against Cruz when he hasn't even been in the race for months.  If you think Trump is better than Hillary then more power to you in voting for him, but don't expect us to sit silently when we hear, or read, sermons about Trump's virtue or capabilities and continued attacks on Cruz for faults both real and imaginary.  On the other hand if you simply argue that you feel that Trump is better than Hillary in spite of his faults and you leave Cruz out of it, as a few others do here, you'll get no fight from me.

 :thumbsup3: :thumbsup3: :thumbsup3: :thumbsup3: :thumbsup3:

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #416 on: September 22, 2016, 04:35:04 pm »
It just doesn't matter to you if someone lies does it?
There's an old part of the Cowboy code that says if its not true don't say it.

Remember when "conservatives"* were disgusted by the ends-justify-the-means tactics used by leftists? Trump has lowered that bar substantially. Things these "conservatives" may have said in the privacy of their own homes or even only in their own minds are now celebrated in the open on message boards, in interviews, in rallies and all across the land. Their (ahem) character has fallen by the wayside in direct correlation to the ascension of their new messiah. And all this time we thought the leftists were the dangerous ones. Now that a good portion of the GOP has abandoned the ranks of the Constitutionally principled (some even ridiculing those who revere the Constitution), we have to watch our backs, fronts, and both sides. Whom do we trust? Whom, indeed.

*"conservatives" denotes those who have proven that they are not moored to the foundation of the Constitution, to limited government, and other conservative principles. Short of a striking epiphany and ensuing repentance, I don't believe we can ever trust them again.

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Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #417 on: September 22, 2016, 04:37:59 pm »
@AllThatJazzZ  translation: 8888crybaby make it stop...

The compassionate conservative in me wants to protect you from making a fool of yourself. Since you seem to love wallowing in your fixation, knock yourself out.

@Longmire


A government big enough to give you everything you want
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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #418 on: September 22, 2016, 04:47:22 pm »
Remember when "conservatives"* were disgusted by the ends-justify-the-means tactics used by leftists? Trump has lowered that bar substantially. Things these "conservatives" may have said in the privacy of their own homes or even only in their own minds are now celebrated in the open on message boards, in interviews, in rallies and all across the land. Their (ahem) character has fallen by the wayside in direct correlation to the ascension of their new messiah. And all this time we thought the leftists were the dangerous ones. Now that a good portion of the GOP has abandoned the ranks of the Constitutionally principled (some even ridiculing those who revere the Constitution), we have to watch our backs, fronts, and both sides. Whom do we trust? Whom, indeed.

*"conservatives" denotes those who have proven that they are not moored to the foundation of the Constitution, to limited government, and other conservative principles. Short of a striking epiphany and ensuing repentance, I don't believe we can ever trust them again.

@Idaho_Cowboy

What makes this worse is that Conservatives pride themselves on knowing right from wrong.  Conservatives recognized this as wrong when it happened in the past and from Liberals.

Which means that some Conservatives willingly said to themselves, "I have seen this before and recognized it as evil.  I still choose it."

And they did so with clear eyes, too.

That is one reason why this split will be so deep.  How can you trust someone that did that?

---

It's like the aftermath of Twilight Zone episode where a nuclear attack alarm was announced, which turned out to be a false alarm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shelter_(The_Twilight_Zone)

« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 04:49:00 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline rodamala

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #419 on: September 22, 2016, 05:11:52 pm »
@roamer_1
It may well be that @Longmire 's cowboy dreams extend no further than his avatar... Just sayin.
With his new avatar, I believe there is evidence of a Vitamin R overdose.  That would explain the seemingly drunken babble at least.

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #420 on: September 22, 2016, 05:14:47 pm »
@roamer_1 With his new avatar, I believe there is evidence of a Vitamin R overdose.  That would explain the seemingly drunken babble at least.

Well, at least it's not Coors, I'll give him that.
@Longmire

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #421 on: September 22, 2016, 05:16:36 pm »
It just doesn't matter to you if someone lies does it?
There's an old part of the Cowboy code that says if its not true don't say it.

But, that sort of attitude pretty much exemplifies the current ethical landscape.   Just as many Hilary supporters (and, no, I'm not saying anyone here is one) know she has lied, continues to lie and will lie in the future, they just accept lies as a normal and apparently acceptable part of life and don't get particularly excited about it.  "Everyone lies."

That makes you (and I) a dinosaur rather than a cowboy.  Being truthful and honest and all that stuff is so last century, dude!  Get with the times!

Offline Longmire

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #422 on: September 22, 2016, 05:25:25 pm »
It just doesn't matter to you if someone lies does it?

Trump didn't write the story in the Miami Herald about Rafael Cruz, he commented on it. There's a big difference.

It's not like he made a pro-immigration speech during a Senate hearing that he later disavowed...

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #423 on: September 22, 2016, 05:30:12 pm »
Trump didn't write the story in the Miami Herald about Rafael Cruz, he commented on it. There's a big difference.

It's not like he made a pro-immigration speech during a Senate hearing that he later disavowed...

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Republican friendships shatter over Trump
« Reply #424 on: September 22, 2016, 05:30:43 pm »
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