Author Topic: Donald Trump Unveils Child Care Subsidy Aimed at Women, Suburban Swing Voters (Mandatory Paid Maternity Leave)  (Read 25316 times)

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Offline LateForLunch

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   Welcome to the Forum.   Simple - A NEW YORK Politician or anyone affiliated with such, EXAMPLE A: Donald Trump, there is nothing, nothing conservative about him, or Hillary, deblasio, Schumer, Weiner or even America's mayor Giuliani.
   Wouldn't it be easier for you, @LateForLunch to list any Conservative New Yorkers?

Thank you very much for your welcome, sieur. This is a terrific vital forum! That being said, I sense that you are a doctrinaire conservative for which only 100% passes - at least 100% of the items you personally hold to be "deal breakers". That again is not meant as a criticism, because I accept your POV as legitimate because feelings are real. I have a greater problem however, with justifying highly exclusionary blanket condemnations  as being "conservative" in nature since for me that standard is set by RWR's appraisal. 

RWR stated that anyone with whom you agree 80% of the time is a political ally. Remove Trump's silly infrastructure big spending, this equally silly benefit for pregnant women, and some of his silly attacks on conservatives (Cruz and Carson among the worst) and the silly idea of raising tariffs to solve the trade imbalance, and you are left with what is likely to be strong support for the military (in terms of reallocating necessary spending to the Navy) strong support for veterans, strong support for Christians, strong support for Israel, strong support for reform in (ending) farming subsidies, strong support for stopping overregulation from EPA in many areas, choosing strong supreme court and appellate court nominees (the list he proposed for nominees has many who rate highly on conservative indexes), strong support for a State Department which actually HAS a consistent foreign policy, and some sort of immigration policy that is not amoral or illegal. I don't know if that is actually 80% but its a lot closer than the 0% we'd get from Hill-O-Lies.

So by my definition, which is admittedly not doctrinaire, Donald Trump is a (more) conservative New Yorker than Hill-O-Lies Clinton. Is he a strong conservative? Probably not. Is his future unwritten? Yes, though it is not likely to be as brilliant as RWR. But he is conservative enough for me to vote for him this time.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:56:53 pm by LateForLunch »
GOTWALMA Get out of the way and leave me alone! (Nods to General Teebone)

Offline Longmire

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  Why should they also be required to pay the woman when she is not there, plus potentially have to temporarily hire and pay someone to do that job while the woman is gone?

Employers aren't required to pay direct unemployment costs, its an insurance program. There's also no requirement to hire a temp either.

Offline ABX

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Employers aren't required to pay direct unemployment costs, its an insurance program. There's also no requirement to hire a temp either.

Except employers are required to buy unemployment insurance in most States (in NY for example, just having one employee you are required to buy it). Adding a middle man to the process doesn't alleviate the issue.

But even then, one big question looms.

Why is this the government's business?

Offline ABX

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I sense that you are a doctrinaire conservative for which only 100% passes - at least 100% of the items you personally hold to be "deal breakers". That again is not meant as a criticism, because I accept your POV as legitimate because feelings are real. I have a greater problem however, with justifying highly exclusionary blanket condemnations  as being "conservative" in nature since for me that standard is set by RWR's appraisal. 

RWR stated that anyone with whom you agree 80% of the time is a political ally. Remove Trump's silly infrastructure big spending, this equally silly benefit for pregnant women, and some of his silly attacks on conservatives (Cruz and Carson among the worst) and the silly idea of raising tariffs to solve the trade imbalance, and you are left with what is likely to be strong support for the military (in terms of reallocating necessary spending to the Navy) strong support for veterans, strong support for Christians, strong support for Israel, strong support for reform in (ending) farming subsidies, strong support for stopping overregulation from EPA in many areas, choosing strong supreme court and appellate court nominees (the list he proposed for nominees has many who rate highly on conservative indexes), strong support for a State Department which actually HAS a consistent foreign policy, and some sort of immigration policy that is not amoral or illegal. I don't know is that is actually 80% but its a lot closer than the 0% we'd get from Hill-O-Lies.

Most here are pragmatic Conservatives who don't see someone who is 80% of the time an ally- they seem someone who is a johnny come lately ally-- 20% through his history at best-- and a history that says he will lie to your face to sell you on his deal.

Almost everything you listed in the 'what you have left' column are things that Trump has changed is position on countless times or more importantly, when it came to his own money and his own businesses- did the exact opposite.

What we see is a lifetime con-artist, cronyist liberal, who is the very definition of what everyone complains is wrong with the political establishment- for every politician being bought, there is someone doing the buying and in his circle, Trump led the way.

This is a man who has zero regard for private property rights if they get in his way. This is a man who started a PAC in NY specifically to block businesses from competing with his New Jersey businesses. This is a man who paid politicians to have businesses all along the NJ boardwalk condemned so he could buy them up for pennies on the dollar and build casinos.

Here is your challenge, I call it -actions speak louder than words.

Take away everything Trump says or promise he makes and just look at what he does with his own money and with his own businesses and come back and tell us he is anywhere close to a Constitutional, free-market Conservative (or is, by how he runs his businesses, much closer to a George Soros styled cronyist?)

Offline Longmire

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Except employers are required to buy unemployment insurance in most States (in NY for example, just having one employee you are required to buy it). Adding a middle man to the process doesn't alleviate the issue.

Why do you presume to know before hand how the program would be administered?

As an employer you pay your premiums as required, what is done with them isn't necessarily your business.






Offline corbe

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Thank you very much for your welcome, sieur. This is a terrific vital forum! That being said, I sense that you are a doctrinaire conservative for which only 100% passes - at least 100% of the items you personally hold to be "deal breakers". That again is not meant as a criticism, because I accept your POV as legitimate because feelings are real. I have a greater problem however, with justifying highly exclusionary blanket condemnations  as being "conservative" in nature since for me that standard is set by RWR's appraisal. 

RWR stated that anyone with whom you agree 80% of the time is a political ally. Remove Trump's silly infrastructure big spending, this equally silly benefit for pregnant women, and some of his silly attacks on conservatives (Cruz and Carson among the worst) and the silly idea of raising tariffs to solve the trade imbalance, and you are left with what is likely to be strong support for the military (in terms of reallocating necessary spending to the Navy) strong support for veterans, strong support for Christians, strong support for Israel, strong support for reform in (ending) farming subsidies, strong support for stopping overregulation from EPA in many areas, choosing strong supreme court and appellate court nominees (the list he proposed for nominees has many who rate highly on conservative indexes), strong support for a State Department which actually HAS a consistent foreign policy, and some sort of immigration policy that is not amoral or illegal. I don't know if that is actually 80% but its a lot closer than the 0% we'd get from Hill-O-Lies.

So by my definition, which is admittedly not doctrinaire, Donald Trump is a (more) conservative New Yorker than Hill-O-Lies Clinton. Is he a strong conservative? Probably not. Is his future unwritten? Yes, though it is not likely to be as brilliant as RWR. But he is conservative enough for me to vote for him this time.


   The Donald is more Conservative than Elliot Spitzer, I'll give you that.  But if the guy getting your vote can show, other than worthless words that he believes in any of the following, he would have my vote too.


    Adherence to the US Constitution
    A Limited, much smaller federal govt.
    A Moral Backbone.
    Show Prudent restraints on power and human emotions.
    Respect Freedom and Property (no kelo).
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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The proposal also calls for providing six weeks of paid maternity leave through unemployment benefits to parents whose employers don’t offer paid maternity leave.

The alternative would be to pay unemployment benefits to the mother for a longer period after she loses her job for not being available to work due to her pregnancy. The Trump approach may also keep single mothers off welfare by providing an incentive to stay employed.

Hard to see how this doesn't score well with values voters.
Free stuff always sells.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Why do you presume to know before hand how the program would be administered?

As an employer you pay your premiums as required, what is done with them isn't necessarily your business.
How the government uses my money is darn well my business.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline GrouchoTex

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I understand your sensitivity but let me assure you that it was not my intention to make any of my remarks personal. It is a general proclivity that I am observing. Some of the most obnoxious characters I have observed on web forums have indeed been Trump supporters. It seems a lot of them are very emotionally-centered in their POV and are not overly concerned with supporting their position with rational, substantive argument.
all right, fair enough.

Offline ABX

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Why do you presume to know before hand how the program would be administered?

No presumption, the fact sheet on the proposal was released. It is specifically expanding the required unemployment insurance program.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/fact-sheet-donald-j.-trumps-new-child-care-plan

As it is mandatory, think of it as Obamacare for childcare.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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The proposal also calls for providing six weeks of paid maternity leave through unemployment benefits to parents whose employers don’t offer paid maternity leave.

The alternative would be to pay unemployment benefits to the mother for a longer period after she loses her job for not being available to work due to her pregnancy. The Trump approach may also keep single mothers off welfare by providing an incentive to stay employed.

Hard to see how this doesn't score well with values voters.

Excellent point @Longmire and well said.   :thumbsup3:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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I'm interested in knowing what the pure "conservative" child/elder care plan would look like.

Please ... tell me.

Offline Fantom

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Just more..New Deal/Great Society socialist stuff.

Like I have said, trump is turning the Republican party into the FDR/LBJ democrat party of old.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

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Offline sinkspur

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Trump:  Champion of working mothers:

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline RoosGirl

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Translated, with all else being equal, why would an employer hire a young woman if the employer knows there is a financial risk involved. Don't think that is a sexist comment either, I know a lot of women in the HR field and they ascribe to that and are open about that far more than men are. They can't say that is the reason or document it, but it is part of the subconscious cost benefit analysis one does when they hire.

Exactly right, and as a woman I would function the same way if I were in the HR position.

Offline sinkspur

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stuart stevens ‏@stuartpstevens  11m11 minutes ago
Trump has privately held companies. He can set policy. None of Trump companies offer paid maternity leave as he now proposes
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline RoosGirl

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Employers aren't required to pay direct unemployment costs, its an insurance program. There's also no requirement to hire a temp either.

The hell they aren't.  At my last job prior to becoming a stay at home mom my boss requested resignations from anyone who was fired based on disciplinary type problems, so the company didn't have to pay for the unemployment the person would otherwise collect if he were fired.

Offline sinkspur

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Aaron Gardner
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Wait, you can put $2k tax free into an account for child enrichment activities? So, pop warner football, little league, dance, gymnastics?


Aaron Gardner ‏@Aaron_RS  32m32 minutes ago
Oh … matching govt funds? Magical money creation machines for everyone! #IvankaCare


Aaron Gardner ‏@Aaron_RS  37m37 minutes ago
#Ivankacare Part 1 - All Childcare is deductible on federal taxes. From birth to age 13!!
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline RoosGirl

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I'm interested in knowing what the pure "conservative" child/elder care plan would look like.

Please ... tell me.

Traditionally it looked like people taking care of their own families and churches and volunteers/non-profits picking up the slack.

Offline sinkspur

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Charles C. W. CookeVerified account
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Great Ivanka Trump speech in favor of Hillary Clinton’s agenda.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline RoosGirl

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There's also no requirement to hire a temp either.

A business hires a person to do a certain job, if that person isn't there who will do that job?  Why should the person hired to do the job be paid when they are not performing the duties they were hired to do?  How does a business afford to pay two people to do the job of one person?  Most importantly, where does the gov't get the authority to force a business to do this?

Offline sinkspur

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Sopan DebVerified account
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Trump aide says 6 weeks of guaranteed paid maternity leave will be paid for by eliminating fraud in unemployment insurance.

stuart stevens ‏@stuartpstevens  6m6 minutes ago
stuart stevens Retweeted Sopan Deb
The same crackerjack sleuths who were tricked by Larry King are going to find lost millions in the couch.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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A business hires a person to do a certain job, if that person isn't there who will do that job?  Why should the person hired to do the job be paid when they are not performing the duties they were hired to do?  How does a business afford to pay two people to do the job of one person?  Most importantly, where does the gov't get the authority to force a business to do this?

Trump is all about mandates on business.  After all, if a business wants to move some operations offshore, he will stop them from doing so or impose punitive taxes.

If an offshore business wants to bring goods into the United States, Trump will tax those goods to the tune of 35%, thus raising the prices you pay.

Donald Trump, authoritarian.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 12:51:44 am by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline ABX

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Trump aide says 6 weeks of guaranteed paid maternity leave will be paid for by eliminating fraud in unemployment insurance.


Funny, that's the same reasoning used in Obamacare.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/reform/deficit-reducing-health-care-reform


Offline UMichConservative

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If someone says they are going to cut spending by getting rid of "waste, fraud, and abuse" they really aren't serious about cutting spending.