Alt-Right Leaders: We Aren’t Racist, We Just Hate Jews

[txradioguy]

@Smokin Joe

Trump wants the United States to become energy independent.

Trump would back off many of the punitive regulations that are holding back the domestic energy industry production.

One of Trump's biggest supporters is the CEO of Continental Resources, Harold Hamm who many consider to be the next Energy Secretary.

More work needs to be done to study the effects of fracking, and accommodations will have to be made with local municipalities and tribes, but to suggest that Trump wants top 'shut down' the oil industry while that takes place is an outright falsehood.

And how exactly does he plan to do that?  Do you think the Democrats...their special interest groups...and the entrenched unelected employees at the Department of the Interior and the EPA are just going to stand aside and let him do all of this?

All of his vague grand plans don't stand a chance if he doesn't have a solid plan to battle the enemy that lurks inside the Beltway.

[Restored]

In my opinion it takes more faith to believe there is no God then to accept that he exists and is our creator.

There is no way to prove something doesn't exist (except for my reading glasses). The only way you truly believe in God is that you have proof that He exists.

[Longmire]

Do you think the Democrats...their special interest groups...and the entrenched unelected employees at the Department of the Interior and the EPA are just going to stand aside and let him do all of this?

I'm actually looking forward to watching Trump turn the Fed-Gov bureaucracy inside out and who opposes him doing that.

Lots of masks left to be removed...

 

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Trump wants the United States to become energy independent.

There are two ways to do that, and if those flyover country people just didn't use so much oil...

Trump would back off many of the punitive regulations that are holding back the domestic energy industry production.

Name one.

One of Trump's biggest supporters is the CEO of Continental Resources, Harold Hamm who many consider to be the next Energy Secretary.

More work needs to be done to study the effects of fracking, and accommodations will have to be made with local municipalities and tribes, but to suggest that Trump wants top 'shut down' the oil industry while that takes place is an outright falsehood.

If you don't think the Obama administration has poked and prodded every pore of that critter, you haven't been paying attention. How Mr. Hamm and Mr. Trump deal with each other is up to them. Maybe his competitors will get the lion's share of the scrutiny "more study" entails.

In over ten thousand wells in this state alone there are zero incidences involving pollution of surface water from a frac, no earthquakes, none of the evils that have been attributed to fraccing.

Extensive campaigns of sampling well water before drilling oil and gas wells have been undertaken in the Marcellus Shale areas, and the result is that while complaints of contamination have fallen off (because there is baseline data showing whether or not that occurs), there have been no substantiated incidents of groundwater contamination--nor would any be expected by anyone who knew even the basics about how these wells are constructed.

Mr. Trump may be in thrall to the Ethanol Lobby, whom he has promised great things, but then his aircraft don't use ethanol--it isn't in aviation fuels. Maybe he is a fan of windmills (so long as they don't block his view), or maybe he thinks renewables are the key, but messing with the oil industry won't get us anywhere.

[txradioguy]

I'm actually looking forward to watching Trump turn the Fed-Gov bureaucracy inside out and who opposes him doing that.

Lots of masks left to be removed...

You are either really naïve or truly delusional if you think he's going to do that. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

People seem to forget (or never learned)  that the US accounted for something like 3% of the slave trade.  The vast BULK went to the Caribbean and Brazil. 

@DiogenesLamp

Do you have a source/link for that map?  I really like it, and think it would be very useful in some discussions.

[sneakypete]

Not really right.

What is being argued here......... that the Founders were moving within a Judeo-Christian ethic......... has nothing to do with having any religion or government dictate to us what we must believe.

sneaky is conflating issues here because of his own anti-Christian bias.<<

@musiclady

HorseHillary! You are just reacting in a kneejerk fashion and playing defense. I am personally opposed to ALL religions,not just yours. The only one I am aware of that I want to see wiped out isn't even a religion. It is a government and political system based on slavery and is known as "Islam". There is no such thing as a non-murderous version of Islam any more than there was a peaceful non-murderous version of Christianity until after the Reformation. Although even today many Christians would approve of murdering/doing Gawd's will non-believers if they thought they could get away with it.


NO conservative wants any given Church or religion to be in control of our lives.  NO one here is arguing that position.<<

Really? Ever met Pat Robertson or any of his cult followers? And he is just one of many. There are still "dry counties" in the US where the citizens can't even buy a beer because the Mrs.Grundy's in the local church's think it is a sin and offends Gawd. Just a few years ago,it was even illegal to dance in some counties. Hopping up and down and speaking in tongues while drooling and in the grip of "Gawd's Love" doesn't seem to count as dancing,though.



Basing the Constitution on morality and on the worldview of the Founders is historical fact.<<

An outright lie if you are defining morality by what passes for standards in the Christian world.


Their not wanting a theocracy (which pete is alluding to) is also historical fact.<<

The Founding Fathers grew up in countries still reeling under the damage of churches with government power,and getting away from that is one reason many of them came here. The people that defined our Constitution weren't ignorant laborers. They came from wealthy and educated families,and they understood the dangers of allowing religions to run governments.


Most conservatives understand both facts.<<

Once again,talked to anybody in Pat Robertson's crowd lately?



The Founders and Conservatives agree.  pete is on the outside, looking in.<<

How would you know? You are a cult member,and like all cult members you put your religion ahead of your country.

[sneakypete]

Historically America is unique especially from the European countries at the time of our founding in not having a state established religion/denomination.

@Idaho_Cowboy

Which is precisely why they used the term "Creator" instead of the term "God".

[musiclady]

@musiclady @sneakypete

In my opinion it takes more faith to believe there is no God then to accept that he exists and is our creator.

I also believe its the height of fallacy to believe that the only things that exist in the universe are those things we humans can comprehend.

Both a fallacy and arrogance, @driftdiver .

To be so vain that one thinks his own mind is the highest intelligence in the universe, and his own understanding all there is to know is quite remarkable.

The Enlightenment went too far when it put man at the center of the universe, but the personal hubris of one declaring there is no life after death because he personally doesn't believe it is so extremely arrogant that it's preposterous.

[musiclady]

@Sanguine @Longmire

I think its because he gets paid to be here.

I wouldn't bet against that.

Though he's not very good at his job.  He disrupts and annoys, but doesn't really accomplish anything for Trump, does he?

[musiclady]

No sense in continuing to post facts to a person who thinks he knows all there is to know, but in actuality knows very little.

You need to think outside the proverbial box, sneaky.  Everything that exists is not in your own head.

[sneakypete]

True enough, except that we now live in the post-Constitutional Era, where the Constitution is no longer the supreme law of the land - the Executive Branch and the Federal Bureaucracy are now the overriding authorities in the US government.  We are no longer a Constitutional Republic, we are now a leftist, Statist bureaucratic oligarchy.

Oh,it's been like that since at least the 1800's. Don't forget,Congress wouldn't allow Utah to join the United States until they did away with a basic tenet of their religion and agreed to have only 1 wife per husband. This was the fundie Christians insisting on this,and getting their way despite it being un-Constitutional.

Granted,the Mormons didn't HAVE to go along with it. They could have refused and remained a Territory,but instead they decided "What the hell? My religious beliefs ain't all THAT important!" and punked out. Somehow or another,the mainstream religious cults seemed to have more freedom than the Mormon cult.

[Smokin Joe]

Somehow or another,the mainstream religious cults seemed to have more freedom than the Mormon cult.

Nah, they can't have more than one wife, either.

[sneakypete]

I always start catching up on these long threads by starting with the latest comment.  Therefore I end up missing some content in between my last visit and the current one.   There is no list like at FR where I can be sure to not miss anything someone said to me directly...and following other people's conversations is even harder.  For me anyway.  Perhaps there are tricks of which I am unaware.<<

@RAT Patrol

If you ever learn them,PLEASE let me know what they are. I even have hard times finding my own posts. I have been trying to talk them into creating ping lists since my first day here,with no luck whatsoever. The closest they come to is the lame-ass "@screename" system,which ain't even close to being a ping list.

[sneakypete]

You simply can't know that. None of us can. To state it as fact does harm to your credibility.

@DB  How do you know I don't know that to be a fact? You True Believers claim you "know" The Big Spook in the Sky" is going to rescue you from the dirt and you will then spend all of eternity thinking pure thoughts and praising Gawd while reclining on a cloud and playing harps,so why is it that *I* can't know "The Big Dirt Nap" lies in the future for all of us?

[sneakypete]

That wasn't my experience, I was told to go back, it wasn't my time.

Now if you decide to blow that off as stray firing neurons, dopamine transmission, whatever, fine, that is up to you. I saw Jesus and He sent me back. I reckon He's not done with me yet.


@Smokin Joe
YMMV.

If that's what you want to believe and it makes you happy,I am happy for you. Just don't try to insist that others have to say your "magic words" and suck up to your "magic spirit in the sky" and live according to YOUR beliefs.

[sneakypete]

You do realize that you're overreacting to the concept of a Divine Being, don't you. Your posts grow more tortured and snarly as your argument progresses. Ever wonder why that hatred is so visceral? Do you get as worked up about other things you disagree with others about or just the concept of the Christian God?<<

@AllThatJazzZ

No,I have a perfect understanding of what drives that hatred. I grew up hearing all about "Gods law" and how it "should be the law of the land,and once that happens American will be saved! Hallelujah!" I even heard it preached that non-believers weren't even really Americans because "America is a Godly country,and they have no place here."

Ever heard of things like Sunday "Blue Laws"?

Organized religion is VERY dangerous and MUST be prevented from gaining too much power.

>>It's interesting to watch. I would suggest that your anger is unnatural, except that I believe it's actually supernatural.<<

BOO! The debbil gonna git you,boy!

[sneakypete]

@musiclady

Arrogance isn't a great idea, @sneakypete.   Especially when one is ignorant.<<

OHHH,the irony!

[DB]

@DB  How do you know I don't know that to be a fact? You True Believers claim you "know" The Big Spook in the Sky" is going to rescue you from the dirt and you will then spend all of eternity thinking pure thoughts and praising Gawd while reclining on a cloud and playing harps,so why is it that *I* can't know "The Big Dirt Nap" lies in the future for all of us?

Because you can't know the unknowable. I didn't say I could prove there's a God. I simply said you can't prove there isn't a God. When something can't be proven either way - it should not be handled with certainty. To claim with certainty that's there's no God is simply illogical and comes down to an emotional argument of what you want to believe.

[Smokin Joe]

If that's what you want to believe and it makes you happy,I am happy for you. Just don't try to insist that others have to say your "magic words" and suck up to your "magic spirit in the sky" and live according to YOUR beliefs.

Pete, I'm just saying what I saw. It's like having a peek over the next ridge, and I won't even say everyone who gets a look will see the same thing.

Thanks for being happy for me, and I hope you never get that sick. I'm not about to demand you believe all the same things I do, and that includes religious beliefs. 

Either way, I think we agree well enough on what we consider 'right' and what we consider 'wrong', what we consider 'good' and what we consider 'evil' without going into why we believe that. 

[sneakypete]

And thanks to the Framers for doing that via the 1st Amendment.

@txradioguy

Sadly, Liberals have taken the Establishment Clause and totally twisted it into something it was never intended to mean.

It was put in there to prevent another Church of England scenario where the head of state was also the head of the church.<<

The prime reason it was put in there was to prevent a situation developing here in America where a religion took over and ran a unelected shadow governrment that answered to no one but themselves,collected taxes,and even make and prosecuted their own laws. Which is exactly what the Catholic Church did in Europe until Martin Luther stepped forward and started a religious freedom movement that resulted in the war known as The Reformation.

It was NOT put in there to prevent a nativity scene from being displayed on the front lawn of city hall or to stop a prayer from being said prior to the start of a HS football game.<<

I'm in total agreement with that. Those of us who aren't religious have no more right in America to tell religious people they CAN'T celebrate their (essentially harmless) religious holidays than they do to insist that we celebrate them against our will.

I'm not talking about some loon cult coming up with a "Burn a Jew at the Stake" holiday or a "Kill a Homo for Christ Day".  I am talking about religious holidays geared towards peace and family with everyone getting along in harmony.

[Sanguine]

I think y'all are giving our Creator a headache.

[sneakypete]

No sense in continuing to post facts to a person who thinks he knows all there is to know, but in actuality knows very little.

You need to think outside the proverbial box, sneaky.  Everything that exists is not in your own head.

@musiclady

Now you are saying I need to believe in magic?

[sneakypete]

Nah, they can't have more than one wife, either.

LOL!

[sneakypete]

Either way, I think we agree well enough on what we consider 'right' and what we consider 'wrong', what we consider 'good' and what we consider 'evil' without going into why we believe that.

BINGO! This whole argument is really a meaningless side show. I am never going to convince any of you true believers to quit believing,and truth to tell,I have no interest in doing so. It ain't like I am starting a "anti-religion religion" and looking for a religious tax exemption and wealthy followers.

In MY opinion,everybody in America is free to believe any damnfool thing they want to believe,as long as they aren't trying to get their beliefs codified into laws the rest of us MUST follow or face fines,imprisonment,or loss of freedom and property.

BTW,I know for a fact there are religions out there that believe we are the offsprung of visiting spacemen in pre-history times,and they worship space ships and flying saucers. I'm a little surprised none of them showed up.