Author Topic: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration  (Read 3082 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« on: August 24, 2016, 01:13:27 pm »
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/york-team-trump-makes-a-mess-of-immigration/article/2600051?platform=hootsuite

Team Trump makes a mess of immigration

By BYRON YORK

8/24/16 1:10 AM

One thing is certain in the current brouhaha over Donald Trump's immigration proposals: the candidate and his top aides are making a mess of things. What is the status of his old proposal to deport all immigrants who are in the United States illegally? After days of Trump and his senior advisers talking about it, the answer is entirely unclear.

The fundamental problem vexing Team Trump is that the deportation proposal was never really clear. Yes, Trump said it often last year, but he also pointedly left it out of many immigration discussions, as well. It went largely unnoticed, for example, that when Trump posted an immigration position paper on his campaign website last year, it had a lot about a border wall and enhanced enforcement — and nothing at all about mass deportations.

Many of the statements from Trump being played in current coverage of the deportation issue date from November 2015. This year — not so much.

Trump has held many, many rallies in which he talked about building the wall — he's talked about it so much that it is now a call-and-response with some audiences. But at the same events he said nothing about deportations.

 
Back in January, not long before the Iowa caucuses, I interviewed Trump and asked whether the deportation proposal was some sort of bargaining chip, rather than a set policy. This is our exchange:

QUESTION: I read Art of the Deal. And one of the things you write about is you have to be bold, you have to make a splash, you have to attract attention. You've also talked about compromise. There was a time you said there's nothing wrong with compromise — you just ask for about three times what you want, and then you get what you want. So I look at deporting all illegal immigrants. I look at a temporary ban of Muslims coming to the United States. They get a lot of attention. Are they opening positions in a negotiation?

TRUMP: I'm not saying there can't be some give and take, but at some point we have to look at these things. You look at the radical Islamic terrorism and you look at what's going on, we have to take a serious look. There's tremendous hatred. You look at illegal immigration and all that's taking place with respect to illegal immigration, whether it's the crime or the economy, I mean, it affects many different elements. It doesn't mean I'm hard and fast 100 percent, but we to get a lot of what I'm asking for, or we're not going to have a country any more.

QUESTION: So they are opening positions?

TRUMP: They are very strong positions. It doesn't mean you're not going to negotiate a little bit, but I guess there will always be some negotiation. But they are very strong positions, and I would adhere to those positions very strongly. That doesn't mean that at some point we won't talk a little bit about some negotiation. Who wouldn't do that?

What did that mean, precisely? Trump deliberately left that unclear, but he wanted to stress that whatever he did would be strong. And strength was the subject a couple of months earlier, in November 2015, when I first wrote about the possibility of a Trump compromise on deportations:

Perhaps deporting all illegal immigrants is the political version of asking for about three times more than you want.

Trump has repeated his deportation vow many times. But few have noted that when Trump rolled out his written immigration plan, posted on his campaign website, there was nothing about mass deportation. In addition to Trump's famous "beautiful wall," the plan had a lot of mainstream conservative proposals about securing the border and tightening interior enforcement.

The effect of Trump's deportation proposal was to pull the Republican immigration debate toward immigration and further right — that is, where Trump wanted it to go. When Trump made an actual written proposal, even an abbreviated campaign-style proposal, it was more measured.

Asking for about three times more than he wants helps Trump keep up his image with supporters. Perhaps the biggest part of Trump's appeal to those supporters is that they see him as strong, and other candidates as weak. Trump has to keep sounding strong to keep their support — even if the things he says scandalize others.

The strategy — making strength on immigration Trump's signature issue — worked fantastically well in Trump's march through the Republican primaries. But the general election campaign is different, and Trump has finally found himself under pressure to clarify his position. And in the last 72 hours Trump has lost control of the issue.

His new campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, has said Trump's position on deportations is to be determined. Trump himself has said things that appear to be hardline and things that appear much softer. The problem will not be resolved until Trump lays out, in some systematic way, where he stands on the question and explains in turn where that position fits into his larger immigration policy.

Trump's deportation mess is troubling to some of the best-informed conservatives on the immigration issue because it creates a huge and damaging controversy over a matter that is not at the heart of solving the larger immigration problem. "The disposition of the 12 million illegals already here is not the core dilemma we face," writes Mark Krikorian, of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors tighter limits on immigration. "The core dilemma is how to make sure we don't end up with another 12 million illegal aliens."

What Trump does could have a serious effect on his campaign. Perhaps a new, more moderate position might attract some undecided voters. But a retreat from the deportation pledge, or at least what many supporters believed Trump's deportation pledge to be, could disillusion some who have supported and worked for Trump's candidacy. There are a significant number of Trump supporters who were drawn to him because of his stand on immigration.

Like Ann Coulter. The conservative author has written a new book, In Trump We Trust: E Pluribus Awesome!, and in an appearance on MSNBC Tuesday said she hoped Trump is not, in fact, backing away from his positions on immigration.

Still, Trump's recent statements "sound very consultant to me," Coulter said. "I think this is a mistake." And she added: "This could be the shortest book tour ever if he's really softening his position on immigration."
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2016, 01:19:20 pm »
"I was for it before I was against it."

Karl Rove killed John Kerry with the flip-flopping charge in 2004.

The problem with Trump is that there doesn't seem to be a flip to flop on.  He's always all over the place on everything.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Oceander

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2016, 01:22:09 pm »
Dear Trumpkins:  are you now going to start opening your eyes and your ears to what we've been vainly telling you for the last 6 months?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2016, 01:33:03 pm »
Trump is governed by his narcissism.  He talks to Hannity about "softening" his stance on immigration, then goes to one of his rallies, hears all the cheering when he mentions "build that wall" and talks tough again.

The man is totally at the mercy of his adoring audiences. 

He created this mob and it's now out of control. 

His biggest fear is that they will turn on him.  They won't, of course, but narcissists don't exist outside of the worship of fans.  So that fear is always there.

That's why he needs these rallies, to give him his daily high.  And he has to have the cheers.  The cheers!!

Why do you think he cancelled the "immigration speech" tomorrow?  Afraid of the reaction. He may never give it, just let this muddled mess he's made go on.

Why is Melania not giving the promised press conference?  Afraid of the reaction. She will never give a press conference now.

Trump will retreat more and more into the bunker with Bannon and Conway and a few staff.  The circle will get smaller rather than larger.

The implosion is underway.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2016, 01:37:32 pm »
So the Huge Wall was an 'opening position'.

Don't say you weren't warned.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 01:39:46 pm »
So the Huge Wall was an 'opening position'.

Don't say you weren't warned.

Donald will betray his supporters on every issue. If you care about immigration, Donald is laughing at you. And he's telling the moneyed elites that he doesn't believe what he's saying, he's not gonna build a wall - that's what he told the New York Times, he will betray you on every issue across the board. -Ted Cruz May 3rd

#MAGA = #MakeAmnestyGreatAgain

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 01:40:54 pm »
Dear Trumpkins:  are you now going to start opening your eyes and your ears to what we've been vainly telling you for the last 6 months?


geronl

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 03:31:28 pm »

Trump will retreat more and more into the bunker with Bannon and Conway and a few staff.  The circle will get smaller rather than larger.

The implosion is underway.

and they will claim to be winning even when they are down 20% in every poll

geronl

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 03:32:10 pm »
So the Huge Wall was an 'opening position'.

Don't say you weren't warned.

"A 4-foot chain link fence is a lot like a wall..."

Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 03:38:03 pm »
"A 4-foot chain link fence is a lot like a wall..."

TOS is melting down.

The vision I'm getting is Dr. Stadler fighting over "The Xylophone" with Cuffy Meigs, and that didn't turn out so well. 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3462382/posts
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 04:01:11 pm »
TOS is melting down.

The vision I'm getting is Dr. Stadler fighting over "The Xylophone" with Cuffy Meigs, and that didn't turn out so well. 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3462382/posts

If Donny isn't careful, he is going to get zotted over there.

Online LMAO

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 04:03:08 pm »
TOS is melting down.

The vision I'm getting is Dr. Stadler fighting over "The Xylophone" with Cuffy Meigs, and that didn't turn out so well. 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3462382/posts

This poster summed it up best:



Interesting to sit back now, and watch this unfold on FR, a day many of us warned would come.

114 posted on 8/24/2016, 9:02:43 AM by AmericanInTokyo (Try rock climbing. It builds character and guts.)




Judging from that link you've posted, they are eating each other alive over there. There is alot of "I'm sure he meants" and "what he means" and "it's been what he's said all alongs."

At the rate Trump is going, they're going to be zotting each other until all that's left is the site owner and he may end up zotting himself at some point

« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 04:04:26 pm by LMAO »
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2016, 04:05:32 pm »
If Donny isn't careful, he is going to get zotted over there.

Donations are slowing down, too. Applying the average thru yesterday, the TOS-a-thon will conclude on September 28.

The Echo Chamber is hurtling toward critical mass.
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 04:07:18 pm »
This poster summed it up best:



Interesting to sit back now, and watch this unfold on FR, a day many of us warned would come.

114 posted on 8/24/2016, 9:02:43 AM by AmericanInTokyo (Try rock climbing. It builds character and guts.)




Judging from that link you've posted, they are eating each other alive over there. There is alot of "I'm sure he meants" and "what he means" and "it's been what he's said all alongs."

At the rate Trump is going, they're going to be zotting each other until all that's left is the site owner and he may end up zotting himself at some point

Has a lifeline been sent to AiT? I know, perhaps should be on the Welcome Freepers thread...apologies for sidestepping protocol.
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 04:11:22 pm »
TOS is melting down.



To: TheStickman

So If I criticize Trump’s foolish campaign maneuvers then I am NeverTrump? I want him to win, not lose. This is the path to defeat. If you cant tell the truth on FR where can you?

175 posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:17:30 AM by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)

Talk about multiple disconnects from reality...

debrawiest

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2016, 04:12:08 pm »
If Donny isn't careful, he is going to get zotted over there.

 :silly: :silly: :silly:

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2016, 04:22:18 pm »
This poster summed it up best:



Interesting to sit back now, and watch this unfold on FR, a day many of us warned would come.

114 posted on 8/24/2016, 9:02:43 AM by AmericanInTokyo (Try rock climbing. It builds character and guts.)


They wanted the man who told the boldest lies and they got him, now they get his inevitable retreats.

Ted Cruz told them the truth, He was going to finish the fencing already approved by congress because that's all he could promise with any kind of assurance. The Trumpers declared that to be weak because he wouldn't promise them a 50 foot wall from sea to shining sea. Instead they fixated on what the word "fence" means and posted pic after pic of single strand wires like morons.

Then the wall is apparently magical becausde you can't see through it like you can see through a fence. And Trump's great wall didn't require any further immigration procedures or laws. Ted Cruz on the other hand laid out extensive immigration control measures beyond a physical barrier. Things like supporting real verification measures, real penalties for companies that knowingly hire illegals, enforced requirements that assure Americans get first dibs at jobs before guest workers are allowed to take them.

Online LMAO

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2016, 04:29:16 pm »
To: TheStickman

So If I criticize Trump’s foolish campaign maneuvers then I am NeverTrump? I want him to win, not lose. This is the path to defeat. If you cant tell the truth on FR where can you?

175 posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2016 8:17:30 AM by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)

Talk about multiple disconnects from reality...

That whole thread is a mash of one group warning Trump against going soft or no vote, another explaining what he really meant, others telling others they didn't really hear what they heard, name calling to all those who aren't displaying adequate loyalty, others deciding that maybe amnesty might not be a negative as long as Trump does it, some claiming Trump never called for deportations.....

I have to admit I did crack a smile when I read that thread. It's their bed. They made it. Now they can sleep in it
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline starstruck

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2016, 04:34:57 pm »
TOS is melting down.

The vision I'm getting is Dr. Stadler fighting over "The Xylophone" with Cuffy Meigs, and that didn't turn out so well. 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3462382/posts
I've been watching that thread. It's apparent that the Trump campaign has been backed into a corner. The hard core Trump supporters aren't enough. They have to attract more voters. TOS seems to be in two camps when it comes to Trump. You have the group that believed what he was saying and you have the group that is for him no matter what he says. The direction this goes could cause a further decline over there. Waiting for Boss Jim's take on the situation.
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2016, 04:35:54 pm »
That whole thread is a mash of one group warning Trump against going soft or no vote, another explaining what he really meant, others telling others they didn't really hear what they heard, name calling to all those who aren't displaying adequate loyalty, others deciding that maybe amnesty might not be a negative as long as Trump does it, some claiming Trump never called for deportations.....

I have to admit I did crack a smile when I read that thread. It's their bed. They made it. Now they can sleep in it

Oh I'm just waiting until Trump comes out of the closet as a full liberal before God and country. There are several pieces of human garbage there that are going to be suicidal. And I plan on encouraging their madness.

Tunnel Bear is a wonderful thing. They wanted to destroy my country? So be it. Their going to hear about it. A lot.

geronl

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2016, 04:38:22 pm »
I saw a Trumper on FB saying Trump never promised mass deportations, if this is their new spin try this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/11/politics/donald-trump-deportation-force-debate-immigration/

Offline ExFreeper

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2016, 04:59:41 pm »
Has a lifeline been sent to AiT? I know, perhaps should be on the Welcome Freepers thread...apologies for sidestepping protocol.

AiT joined here a month or so back.  Have not seen him posting since he initially joined.
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2016, 05:51:19 pm »
I saw a Trumper on FB saying Trump never promised mass deportations, if this is their new spin try this:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/11/politics/donald-trump-deportation-force-debate-immigration/

Heard a Trump caller on the radio this morning say the same thing, then the host played audio of Trump saying the 11 million must go, which caused the caller to switch his tune and say "yes and that is what Trump will do". By the end of the call the host on red-eye radio were scratching their heads. It was clear the caller hadn't a clue what Trump's immigration policy was and was happy to shift his position along withTrump.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2016, 06:29:44 pm »
TOS is melting down.

The vision I'm getting is Dr. Stadler fighting over "The Xylophone" with Cuffy Meigs, and that didn't turn out so well. 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3462382/posts

This one cracked me up. They fail to mention that the story the are posting on is from Fox News, reporting on a Town Hall meeting with Sean Hannity.
Not exactly enemy territory.

To: Will88
The press is trying to depress support for Trump right now. Don’t be manipulated by the presstitutes. This is psywar. They are yanking our chains right now.

I looked at CNN.com yestrday. They had 4 negative stories on Trump. ZERO on the Clinton Foundation scandal breaking news. Why would you believe ONE WORD they right about Trump?


30 posted on 8/24/2016, 7:23:40 AM by lodi90 (Clear choice for Conservatives now: TRUMP or lose)
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Team Trump makes a mess of immigration
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2016, 06:32:34 pm »
They wanted the man who told the boldest lies and they got him, now they get his inevitable retreats.

Ted Cruz told them the truth, He was going to finish the fencing already approved by congress because that's all he could promise with any kind of assurance. The Trumpers declared that to be weak because he wouldn't promise them a 50 foot wall from sea to shining sea. Instead they fixated on what the word "fence" means and posted pic after pic of single strand wires like morons.

Then the wall is apparently magical becausde you can't see through it like you can see through a fence. And Trump's great wall didn't require any further immigration procedures or laws. Ted Cruz on the other hand laid out extensive immigration control measures beyond a physical barrier. Things like supporting real verification measures, real penalties for companies that knowingly hire illegals, enforced requirements that assure Americans get first dibs at jobs before guest workers are allowed to take them.

Also, Cruz and "Kate's law", which, unfortunately, got shot down.