Author Topic: WOW! POLITICAL SUICIDE! TED CRUZ REFUSES TO ENDORSE TRUMP – CROWD BOOS HIM OFF STAGE  (Read 78157 times)

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Offline Cripplecreek

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Combat grunts LOVE them Hogs.  When danger is close, nothing hits Hajii harder and more accurately (except a JDAM) than a strafing run by a Hog Driver that knows how to skim the treetops and lay down fire that will instantly liquefy an entire brigade of Jihadists.

Hog drivers are essentially grunts in the AF that have more in common with a platoon cmdr than a career officer with sleek wings to a tech savvy fast mover.

I've seen video out of Afghanistan of troops on the ground lining up in a string over 100 yards or so to wave flags to accurately point a low flying A-10 at a specific point that apparently needed to hit from a very low angle.

Offline HoustonSam

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Combat grunts LOVE them Hogs.  When danger is close, nothing hits Hajii harder and more accurately (except a JDAM) than a strafing run by a Hog Driver that knows how to skim the treetops and lay down fire that will instantly liquefy an entire brigade of Jihadists.

Hog drivers are essentially grunts in the AF that have more in common with a platoon cmdr than a career officer with sleek wings to a tech savvy fast mover.

Several of you fellows talk about this with the confidence of experience, experience that I don't have.  So let me further hijack the thread with a question : why isn't tactical air support with fixed wing aircraft like the A-10 moved back to Army command?  It seems that the Army and the Air Force want to concentrate on different battlefields; wouldn't it make more sense to give the Army all aspects of its battlefield, including close air support of troops on the ground, and let the Air Force focus on the strategic mission and air superiority?

Apologies to mods and everyone else if I'm perpetuating an unwelcome drift in the thread topic.
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Offline txradioguy

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Several of you fellows talk about this with the confidence of experience, experience that I don't have.  So let me further hijack the thread with a question : why isn't tactical air support with fixed wing aircraft like the A-10 moved back to Army command?  It seems that the Army and the Air Force want to concentrate on different battlefields; wouldn't it make more sense to give the Army all aspects of its battlefield, including close air support of troops on the ground, and let the Air Force focus on the strategic mission and air superiority?

Apologies to mods and everyone else if I'm perpetuating an unwelcome drift in the thread topic.

I think a lot of it has to do with agreements made back in the late 40's when the AF became its own branch of service.

IRRC there was a huge pissing contest in the 50's when the Army started taking an interest in helicopters.. especially armed ones.

The AF wanted to forbid the Army from using rotary wing aircraft as well.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 10:59:38 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline EC

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In short, it's too sensible an idea and too expensive to fix a historical cock up.

The Army (and Marines) do look after a lot of their own close support needs, but tend to do so with choppers, not fixed wing. For some reason (more than likely budgetary, but a scrap at the top could also be behind it) when the A-10 was first rolled out it was given to the AF. To transition the A-10 to Army control would take several years and a butt load of cash - you'd need to build the support units from scratch, unless you want some very unhappy AF types being forced to mix with the ground pounders. The planes themselves are a vanishingly small part of the cost.
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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 I then put on Levin's show from yesterday. Now Levin says he will vote for Trump to avoid having Hillary in the WH. But Levin doesn't shrink from nailing Trump on his numerous faults.

@CatherineofAragon
Doesn't matter a single Tinkers dam in the end though. He sold out just as I long predicted he would.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly laugh in the faces of all those staunch 'conservatives' who called me everything but a white man for calling Levin what his actions PROVE he is. A fraud.

I told you so folks.


Offline txradioguy

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@CatherineofAragon
Doesn't matter a single Tinkers dam in the end though. He sold out just as I long predicted he would.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly laugh in the faces of all those staunch 'conservatives' who called me everything but a white man for calling Levin what his actions PROVE he is. A fraud.

I told you so folks.

Hold off there Carnack...he hasn't said for sure hes voting for Trump.


Levin has a solid history as the Conservatives Conservative.  So your BS about his allegedly selling out isnjust that...BS.

You didnt tell us anything but that your an arrogant prig who pretends to be above it all so you can laugh at all sides while pretending to be the only one who can see the error of our collective stupidity.

That doesn't make you smart ...just makes you an bleep. 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 11:56:42 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Norm Lenhart

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He has a solid history of saying one thing during the leadup to an election and another right before the election when he tells his audience to vote for whatever POS the GOP provides. Thats history. Thats a fact.

Mitt Romney ring any bells? Mr. Conservative Levin went out and told his audience to elect the guy that profits from the abortions his own laws enabled.

A F T E R he spent months telling us what a bad guy Romney was. That to is a fact of history. Do you suppose that Romney and now Trump are suddenly free of all his prior criticzms? Do you suppose that their idiocy is now OK to give pass to because ...reasons? Now do YOU think it's acceptable to milk your audience for ratings and profit at the expense of your country? Because I sure as hell do not.

Oh...and he did it just like Jim Robinson did. Birds of a feather.

EDIT:  PS: Call me arrogant all you like. Don't care. I was right and I am NOT ashamed of it. Listen to people like me next time and you won't have to make excuses for fallen idols.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 12:26:06 am by Norm Lenhart »

Offline JustPassinThru

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He has a solid history of saying one thing during the leadup to an election and another right before the election when he tells his audience to vote for whatever POS the GOP provides. Thats history. Thats a fact.

Mitt Romney ring any bells? Mr. Conservative Levin went out and told his audience to elect the guy that profits from the abortions his own laws enabled.

A F T E R he spent months telling us what a bad guy Romney was. That to is a fact of history. Do you suppose that Romney and now Trump are suddenly free of all his prior criticzms? Do you suppose that their idiocy is now OK to give pass to because ...reasons? Now do YOU think it's acceptable to milk your audience for ratings and profit at the expense of your country? Because I sure as hell do not.

Oh...and he did it just like Jim Robinson did. Birds of a feather.

EDIT:  PS: Call me arrogant all you like. Don't care. I was right and I am NOT ashamed of it. Listen to people like me next time and you won't have to make excuses for fallen idols.

Romney would have been UNQUESTIONABLY better than the African Moslem.

UNQUESTIONABLY.

He's a leftist RINO - I get that.  He's not a wrecking ball.  He's not a child filled with Marxist rot.

He's not a Moslem.

Those were sound reasons to support Romney at the end of the day.

I cannot find similar sound reasons today.

But Levin recognized, then, that the less-evil was the better choice.

FWIW, Levin seems on the verge of giving a grudging nod for Trump.  He can if he wants; but I think it's a coin toss. He'd probably preserve more cred just saying so as well.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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"Low energy" destroyed Bush. Not because Bush was actually low energy - you don't govern a state being low energy. He was just boring & wore glasses

Destroyed?  You think winning two Presidential elections has one 'destroyed'?

Kinda dramatic I would think.
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Offline verga

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That is correct.

Hog drivers made mincemeat out of Sadaam's retreating army.


Warthogs are bad ass planes. Coonts did an amazing job of describing their capabilities in his first book.
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Destroyed?  You think winning two Presidential elections has one 'destroyed'?

Kinda dramatic I would think.
@skeeter
I think he meant JEB, not W.
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Romney would have been UNQUESTIONABLY better than the African Moslem.

UNQUESTIONABLY.

He's a leftist RINO - I get that.  He's not a wrecking ball.  He's not a child filled with Marxist rot.

He's not a Moslem.

Those were sound reasons to support Romney at the end of the day.

I cannot find similar sound reasons today.

But Levin recognized, then, that the less-evil was the better choice.

FWIW, Levin seems on the verge of giving a grudging nod for Trump.  He can if he wants; but I think it's a coin toss. He'd probably preserve more cred just saying so as well.

I don't care if he's a VooDoo witch doctor. The guy and his supporters traded the lives of babies away to try winning an election.

Romney profited from his own laws that killed human babies. His supporters knew that going in and gave their approval of trading babies lives for victory. Then lost.

Not my fault...just their lack of morality. Some of them realized their mistake. Some didn't.

At the end of the day, the lesser evil argument is one put forth by the morally bankrupt because ultimately, they WILL accept evil on their terms. If that upsets people, reevaluate your voting folks, because it's true regardless of any polite feelings involved.


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At the end of the day, the lesser evil argument is one put forth by the morally bankrupt because ultimately, they WILL accept evil on their terms. If that upsets people, reevaluate your voting folks, because it's true regardless of any polite feelings involved.
Evil is evil. When you start putting it classes, in lesser and greater modes, all that is done is to give an excuse to choose which evil will be accepted, not the refutation of evil in and of itself.

Why I don't expect a candidate to be perfect (for none of us are), I still expect them to uphold, as a servant of the people, the highest standards of behaviour and morality. We say private life goes away when someone becomes a public figure, at that point their behaviour, their actions all become something they are doing for us by proxy.

If we find, beforehand, that that proxy will be abused and used to commit evil, we have no business giving it if we seek good. Saying that granting that proxy to act on our behalf because the person who receives it will commit less evil than some other person we could so empower is like voting for someone who is only a serial murderer and not a mass murderer because they won't kill as many people.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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They should just go ahead and turn them over to the Army like they planned to do prior to their last star turn during Desert Storm.

This isnt the first time the AF has tried to rid themselves of the A10.

As an aside...former Dallas Cowboys DE Chad Hennings flew Warthogs in Kuwait in 1991

@txradioguy

You are right,but the USAF is incredibly jealous of being birdmen,and will do anything and everything to prevent the army from doing their own flying and leaving them out of a job. It was before my time,but people were still serving when I was in the army that remember the howls of outrage over the army even having helicopters. ALL they wanted the army to have were unarmed piper cubs for observation planes. Armed planes were consider to be THEIR domain,and nobody was welcome to step on their turf,thank you very much. The fact that all these wanted were zoomies to shoot the gawdless commies out of the sky and had less than zero interest in providing air cover for ground troops was irrelevant.

They even got the old Caribou taken out of army service by claiming they could provide the same troop and supply airlift in C-123's and C-130's,never mind that they had to go to JATO (Jet assisted take off) to get even a C-123 out of a short strip where a C-130 couldn't even land,never mind take off. And there were more than a few remote SF camps that could ONLY be supplied by air that even the C-123's couldn't get in or out of. They were reduced to getting resupplied by a C-123 coming in on the dirt airstrip with the door down,and then the load master rolling pallets with the re-supplies out the back door with a parachute attached to help them slow down enough they didn't tumble and bust all to pieces when they hit the ground. Some of those A camps they couldn't even do that with so they ended up using air drops. In the end,they just gave up and the most remote camps were resupplied by helicopters,which mean multiple takeoffs and landings,giving the NVA in the hills plenty of time to bring weapons to bear on the strips.

Now the newest pack of asshats in blue with stars want to eliminate the A-10 less they be confused with enlisted swine that fight in the dirt instead of fighting the officer and gentlemen who are their social equals.

Then again,I may be just the tiniest bit bitter because I was thinking we were all on the same side.
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Offline sneakypete

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Several of you fellows talk about this with the confidence of experience, experience that I don't have.  So let me further hijack the thread with a question : why isn't tactical air support with fixed wing aircraft like the A-10 moved back to Army command?

Turf fights and jockeying for a larger chuck on the defense budget. It all about building and maintaining your empire.
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Offline sneakypete

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Destroyed?  You think winning two Presidential elections has one 'destroyed'?

Kinda dramatic I would think.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Think "JEB",not Boy Jorge.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Several of you fellows talk about this with the confidence of experience, experience that I don't have.  So let me further hijack the thread with a question : why isn't tactical air support with fixed wing aircraft like the A-10 moved back to Army command?  It seems that the Army and the Air Force want to concentrate on different battlefields; wouldn't it make more sense to give the Army all aspects of its battlefield, including close air support of troops on the ground, and let the Air Force focus on the strategic mission and air superiority?

Apologies to mods and everyone else if I'm perpetuating an unwelcome drift in the thread topic.

Maybe it has to do with the relationship between providing good CAS, and needing relative air superiority.  If you don't control the air, then effective CAS is much more difficult, and you'll lose planes.  So (and this is guessing since I wasn't in the AF), the people who are shaping the air battlefield are in the best position to control the commitment of CAS.  You also have the whole issue of requiring separate airfields, separate command structures, logistical support (fuel, for example) etc. for fixed wing aircraft.  Putting it all under the same command structure simplifies a lot of the those problems.

Offline txradioguy

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I don't care if he's a VooDoo witch doctor. The guy and his supporters traded the lives of babies away to try winning an election.

Romney profited from his own laws that killed human babies. His supporters knew that going in and gave their approval of trading babies lives for victory. Then lost.

Not my fault...just their lack of morality. Some of them realized their mistake. Some didn't.

At the end of the day, the lesser evil argument is one put forth by the morally bankrupt because ultimately, they WILL accept evil on their terms. If that upsets people, reevaluate your voting folks, because it's true regardless of any polite feelings involved.

So basically what you do is set this impossibly high standard for what is and isn't a sellout so that you never have to commit to ome person or another and you're never wrong in your mind....got it. 

I notice too that you waited until Levin's name was mentioned to even show up on this thread. Do you jabe anything to add to thr OP or were you just waiting on your chance to skewer Levin because hes your personal daemon.  I notice that you left Rush and Hannity alone. Why is that?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Maybe it has to do with the relationship between providing good CAS, and needing relative air superiority.  If you don't control the air, then effective CAS is much more difficult, and you'll lose planes.  So (and this is guessing since I wasn't in the AF), the people who are shaping the air battlefield are in the best position to control the commitment of CAS.  You also have the whole issue of requiring separate airfields, separate command structures, logistical support (fuel, for example) etc. for fixed wing aircraft.  Putting it all under the same command structure simplifies a lot of the those problems.

Yup that sums it up nicely.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Norm Lenhart

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So basically what you do is set this impossibly high standard for what is and isn't a sellout so that you never have to commit to ome person or another and you're never wrong in your mind....got it. 

I notice too that you waited until Levin's name was mentioned to even show up on this thread. Do you jabe anything to add to thr OP or were you just waiting on your chance to skewer Levin because hes your personal daemon.  I notice that you left Rush and Hannity alone. Why is that?

Because they proved themselves nothing but shills for the establishment long ago. Unfortunately there are still people here that look to the sellout as some kind of conservative because he writes books and yells at people. BFD. That's nice. But his actual actions are not something you can wish away.

And if you call standing behind the words coming out of your/his/my/whoever's mouth an 'impossibly high standard" then you may better take a long and hard look at your standards because they would be extremely lax. Most people would call standing behind their words honorable and even conservative.

So when some 'icon' of conservatism flip flops every election on backing liberals, I would think an honorable person would call it what it is, not try to pretend it all away by diverting the issue. Wouldn't you agree?

Here's the problem. If you look to entertainers (and a guy with a radio show is most assuredly an entertainer, whether it's Levin, Rush or Hannity) to give you (the general 'you' your political opinion, you shouldn't be allowed to vote in the first place as you abandoned your duty as an American and lack the intelligence to govern yourself.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Evil is evil. When you start putting it classes, in lesser and greater modes, all that is done is to give an excuse to choose which evil will be accepted, not the refutation of evil in and of itself.

It's the very same mindset that leads people to call themselves conservatives while voting for people who offer the exact opposite of everything they say between elections.
They want to sit at that table while doing nothing to have earned their place there. They WANT. It's really no deeper than that. They want to be called conservative no matter how liberal their voting is. They will simply blame you for calling them on their actions.

Trump does that daily. So they do that as well. Before him, it was Romney. Or Mitch. Or Jonbon. It doesn't matter what liberal the GOP puts up, they vote for it and demand their seat at the conservative table instead of where their actions place them. At the kids table with the rest of their Democrat brethren.

Why? So they can destroy from within and ensure that a Liberal wins. Look at the last three four elections. Fully within the age of the Internet with any info imaginable a mere mouseclick away and what do they do? Spread rumor, attack facts, act like card carrying Democrats and DEMAND they be called conservative...which helps make the word utterly meaningless.

I can't begin to tell you how many people I have talked to in my life that think people like the current Trump crowd, or the Romneybots before them were 'conservative' and thus wanted nothing to do with the brand as those people disgusted them. Much like the drunk 'christian' that blows his check at the strip joint Saturday night and sits piously in the pews Sunday morning.

Frauds. Hypocrites. Evil. There are many descriptors that apply fully. They hate hearing there is consequence to their actions. But they never hate it enough to do anything to repeat their behavior and condemn anyone with enough of a spine to point it out.

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So basically what you do is set this impossibly high standard for what is and isn't a sellout so that you never have to commit to ome person or another and you're never wrong in your mind....got it. 


Romney was a Massachussetts liberal who signed proclamations praising homosexual parades with children as Grand Marshals.

For electability what was ever worse was that he was the Godfather of ObamaCare and it pretty much took the biggest issue of the election off the table.

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If Levin wants to support Trump, that's his business.  He's a grown man.  It is a decision that he is going to have to live with, not me. 

But if he starts telling us that Trump is a Conservative, or that voting for anyone other than Trump is a vote for Hillary, or if he starts badgering us in any way to vote for Trump, then he becomes dead to me.  I can't handle the lying.
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Offline txradioguy

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If Levin wants to support Trump, that's his business.  He's a grown man.  It is a decision that he is going to have to live with, not me. 

But if he starts telling us that Trump is a Conservative, or that voting for anyone other than Trump is a vote for Hillary, or if he starts badgering us in any way to vote for Trump, then he becomes dead to me.  I can't handle the lying.

Levin very clearly and affirmatively says that hes not seen anything Conservative about Trump and that Trump is going to have to quit appleaing to Bernie Sanders voters amd start reaching out to Conservatives if he (Levin) ends up voting for Trump. 

I don't at all believe he'll pull a Limbaugh and try to tell us Donny is Conservative.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Smokin Joe

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It's the very same mindset that leads people to call themselves conservatives while voting for people who offer the exact opposite of everything they say between elections.
They want to sit at that table while doing nothing to have earned their place there. They WANT. It's really no deeper than that. They want to be called conservative no matter how liberal their voting is. They will simply blame you for calling them on their actions.

Trump does that daily. So they do that as well. Before him, it was Romney. Or Mitch. Or Jonbon. It doesn't matter what liberal the GOP puts up, they vote for it and demand their seat at the conservative table instead of where their actions place them. At the kids table with the rest of their Democrat brethren.

Why? So they can destroy from within and ensure that a Liberal wins. Look at the last three four elections. Fully within the age of the Internet with any info imaginable a mere mouseclick away and what do they do? Spread rumor, attack facts, act like card carrying Democrats and DEMAND they be called conservative...which helps make the word utterly meaningless.

I can't begin to tell you how many people I have talked to in my life that think people like the current Trump crowd, or the Romneybots before them were 'conservative' and thus wanted nothing to do with the brand as those people disgusted them. Much like the drunk 'christian' that blows his check at the strip joint Saturday night and sits piously in the pews Sunday morning.

Frauds. Hypocrites. Evil. There are many descriptors that apply fully. They hate hearing there is consequence to their actions. But they never hate it enough to do anything to repeat their behavior and condemn anyone with enough of a spine to point it out.

Well, Norm, this is the reason we have a Congress with a couple of warriors for Liberty and a host of 'centrists' and Liberals.

The "He's our Liberal" or our "lesser evil" argument has been winning elections for too long.
There is a comforting convenience in electing the status quo, people have the same somethings to bitch about, the same things to get angry about, like that ache in a knee or elbow in the morning, those problems, those chains are an old friend.

Only now, that ache isn't just an arthritic twinge, but heralds something that is growing, getting worse, contagious, metastasizing, and accelerating. The bromides of denial work only so long, the opiates of the Media will only mask the damage for a while, and sooner or later the pain will burn through the analgesics, by which time the damage will be done.

Then, inevitably, fingers will be pointed and excuses made, but the bottom line is that there is always the choice to not do or not support evil.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis