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Offline sinkspur

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The Fractured Republicans
« on: July 17, 2016, 09:19:13 pm »
The Fractured Republicans

by MATTHEW CONTINETTI

July 16, 2016 12:00 AM

 With the nomination of a nationalist, populist candidate, the GOP has changed forever. The Republicans arriving in Cleveland this weekend will be part of something extraordinary. They will witness not only the nomination of Donald Trump for president but the reconfiguration of the GOP and the American conservative movement. They will legitimize their party’s dramatic shift toward nationalism and populism. They will redefine what it means to be Republican, and who is conservative.

This has happened before. For decades, the American conservative movement was made up of three groups. Traditionalists preserved the best of Western civilization’s Judeo-Christian heritage. Libertarians sought to maximize individual freedom. Cold Warriors, some of them ex-Communists, wanted not only to contain but to roll back and defeat the Soviet Union.

It fell to one man, William F. Buckley Jr., to bring these people together. He did it by founding a magazine, National Review, in 1955, and by captivating the public for decades with his wit, charm, erudition, books, newspaper columns, lectures, and television series. Buckley embodied the various strands of conservatism. He was a devout Catholic and patriot who emphasized the transcendent. He was a self-identified “individualist” and “libertarian journalist.” His anti-Communism was so strong that his second book was a defense of Senator Joseph McCarthy.

But even Buckley had trouble defining the movement he led. “I have never failed,” he wrote in 1970, “to dissatisfy an audience that asks the meaning of conservatism.”

 Perhaps that was because conservatism was best described in negative terms. Conservatives knew what they were against — secularism, relativism, materialism, liberalism, socialism, and Communism. But did they know what they were for? What united conservatives above all was a common enemy: the Soviet Union and its allies and apologists worldwide. It was the Soviet threat that justified large defense budgets and American intervention overseas. Postwar was not peacetime. The title of James Burnham’s National Review column was “World War III.”

 Over the years, new allies joined the traditionalists, libertarians, and hawks. There were neoconservatives, liberal intellectuals mugged by reality in the 1960s and ’70s. And there was the religious Right, spurred into activism by Roe v. Wade (1973), by proposed changes to the tax status of religious schools (1979), and by the moral climate of the Me Decade. The rise of neoconservatism inspired a reaction in the form of paleoconservatism: traditionalists and libertarians angered by neoconservative acceptance of the welfare state and by America’s role as guarantor of international security.

 President Reagan, like Buckley, was an ecumenical figure. He appealed to every faction. But the era of good feelings ended when Reagan left the scene and, shortly afterward, the Soviet Union collapsed. Conservatives were deprived of their shared adversary. The tension between communal tradition and individualism became pronounced. Government continued to expand. Defense expenditures and military expeditions were more difficult to justify.

 The neoconservatives and the religious Right were dominant in the 1990s and 2000s. There were fewer traditionalists, Cold Warriors no longer existed, and libertarians and paleoconservatives were marginalized. The GOP of neocons and theocons had a string of electoral and policy successes: 1994, 2000, 2002, and 2004; the Hyde Amendment, welfare reform, broken-windows policing, the partial-birth-abortion ban, Medicare Part D, Justice Alito.

But things fall apart. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and too few troops to keep the peace. The Bush administration’s most libertarian initiative, Social Security reform, went nowhere. Hurricane Katrina, Harriet Miers, Dubai Ports, government spending, Dick Cheney shooting his friend in the face — nothing seemed to go right. In 2007, a year before his death, Buckley was asked when conservatism reached its apogee. “Viewed as a straight political trajectory,” he replied, “it peaked in 1980.”

The events of the last decade, as if guided by an invisible hand, seem to have discredited conservatism. The ongoing trials in Iraq diminished the neoconservatives. Free-marketers and supply-siders were tarnished when the Bush presidency began with tax cuts and ended in recession and financial crisis. The rapid triumph of same-sex marriage exposed the weakness of the religious Right. Where conservatives once agreed on the threat of international Communism, they rarely find consensus today on any topic. Is Islamism an existential threat? Should America police the world? Is free trade good or bad? What about immigration? How large should government be? Have you a position on the gold standard? What’s the proper attitude to take toward the police? Should conservatives make their peace with social and cultural change?

 Conservatism splintered, paleoconservatives asserted themselves, Trump captured the GOP. “We are witnessing in an inchoate form the birth of a political phenomenon never before seen in this country,” says historian George Nash. “An ideologically muddled, ‘nationalist-populist’ major party combining both left-wing and right-wing elements.” Aiding Trump is “an array of aggressive dissenters called the ‘alternative right’ or ‘alt-right,’ many of whom openly espouse white nationalism and white-identity politics.”

 The number of groups vying for dominance of the Republican party and conservative movement has more than doubled. In addition to the traditionalists, libertarians, and defense hawks, we have neocons, theocons, paleocons, tea-partiers, Trump supporters, alt-righters, and reformicons. “I have never observed as much dissension on the right as there is at present,” Nash says. There are two ways to look at this. Debate and competition can be signs of health. But chaotic squabbling is also a sign of collapse.

 Reading about Buckley and conservatism, one can’t help noticing how libertarian sentiments have become attenuated in the GOP and popular conservative movement. Buckley’s idol was Albert Jay Nock, whose works include Our Enemy, the State. Buckley was a critic of not only the Great Society but also the New Deal. “I will not cede more power to the state,” he wrote in a famous passage in Up from Liberalism (1959). “I will not willingly cede more power to anyone, not to the state, not to General Motors, not to the CIO. I will hoard my power like a miser, resisting every effort to drain it away from me.”

Buckley’s key political alliances were with the libertarian Barry Goldwater and with Reagan, who once said, “If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” Buckley opposed the drug war. Individualism was not only a political philosophy but a personal one. His very life was an expression of the principle that one can live on one’s own terms. Read Cruising Speed and Overdrive if you think I’m kidding.

 Buckley’s libertarianism was constrained by his Catholicism and profound love of country. He was a pro-life activist. His speeches are filled with appeals to the American Founding. Conservatism, he wrote in 1970, was the use of prudence to determine “a general consensus on the proper balance between freedom, order, justice, and tradition.” Militaries are necessary to confront wars, police are necessary to establish order, and borders are necessary for sovereignty. Beyond those necessities, freedom reigns.

Not for the Republicans in Cleveland next week. Their nominee opposes entitlement reform, is fond of nationalized health care, is a protectionist and nativist, calls himself the “most militarist person ever,” wants to broaden libel laws, and condones torture and the killing of civilians. “Prudence” and “consensus” are not exactly his favorite words. What did Buckley think of Donald Trump? “When he looks at a glass,” Buckley wrote in 2000, “he is mesmerized by its reflection. If Donald Trump were shaped a little differently, he would compete for Miss America.”

 Conservatism never has been totally dominant in the Republican party. But the GOP has been the historic vehicle of conservatism. As Donald Trump takes the stage Thursday evening, Americans inspired by William F. Buckley Jr. may want to reflect on just how estranged they have become from the GOP, from contemporary conservatism, from the origins of their movement. And they may want to ask if some other candidate better represents the beliefs and aspirations of National Review and its irrepressible, irreplaceable founder.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437942/donald-trump-republican-party-conservative-movement-william-f-buckley-jr-gone?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=578beb7d04d3017ff4e616d7&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

geronl

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 10:50:04 pm »
Whatever Trumpism might be, it ain't conservative.

HonestJohn

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 11:40:37 pm »
Socialism and nationalism in one party... what could *POSSIBLY* go wrong with that.


Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 11:44:23 pm »

Mark MurrayVerified account
‏@mmurraypolitics
Striking: 60% of Dems, 54% of indies, and 51% of GOPers say that free trade is a good thing in new NBC/WSJ poll
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 11:58:53 pm »
Whatever Trumpism might be, it ain't conservative.

The real question is what is Trump trying to redefine conservatism as.

I keep hearing that Trump is conservative because he talks tough on border control but that isn't really a strictly conservative issue. Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson and Calvin Coolidge were all tough border controllers but two of them were progressives.

I hear that Trump is conservative because he wants to bring jobs back. Well Democrats also talk about bringing jobs back and Trump adopts their rhetoric about punishing business for fleeing the economic oppression that exists here.

Trump talks about using the power of federal government for a multitude of things from land management to imposing the death penalty for cop killers.

We should be looking to Calvin Coolidge as the example of what conservatism is.

Offline LMAO

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2016, 12:01:53 am »


We should be looking to Calvin Coolidge as the example of what conservatism is.

 :beer:
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

HonestJohn

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2016, 01:59:36 am »
Mark MurrayVerified account
‏@mmurraypolitics
Striking: 60% of Dems, 54% of indies, and 51% of GOPers say that free trade is a good thing in new NBC/WSJ poll

Free trade has been the cornerstone of conservatism for decades. 

Offline billva

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2016, 02:18:19 am »
I for one feel that Trump is expanding the Republican Party and I am for that.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2016, 02:21:39 am »
I for one feel that Trump is expanding the Republican Party and I am for that.

How?  Fewer blacks and Hispanics support Trump than Romney, fewer married women, fewer college educated, and fewer women.

Where is Trump expanding the Party?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

geronl

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 02:23:56 am »
I for one feel that Trump is expanding the Republican Party and I am for that.

Trump is a leftist, he is destroying the party for his friend Hillary

HonestJohn

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2016, 02:31:34 am »
He's throwing out more than he's taking in.  And who he's taking in are liberals.  So good luck with that.

He's not getting liberals.  He's getting the skinhead, Klan, and white nationalist voters.  The ones that neither party ever wanted, and who were rejected whenever discovered.  That's all he's adding.

Offline libertybele

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 02:51:17 am »
Trump is a leftist, he is destroying the party for his friend Hillary

BINGO!!! 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline billva

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2016, 03:13:46 am »
Good grief the hate is even worse than I thought.

Trump is bringing in working class people as evidenced by the large number of people in Pennsylvania who are changing parties.  Obviously a lot of you don't like that.  However the replies above to my comment really lack in accuracy and are pretty knee jerk. 

I am happy to see people outside the party taking a look at what we stand for and if we don't become more attractive to other voters we will die as a party.  No doubt some of you don't care, but I do.

Offline libertybele

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2016, 03:39:18 am »
Good grief the hate is even worse than I thought.

Trump is bringing in working class people as evidenced by the large number of people in Pennsylvania who are changing parties.  Obviously a lot of you don't like that.  However the replies above to my comment really lack in accuracy and are pretty knee jerk. 

I am happy to see people outside the party taking a look at what we stand for and if we don't become more attractive to other voters we will die as a party.  No doubt some of you don't care, but I do.

Trump is bringing in liberals; any way you cut it.  The demise, splintering and fracturing of the GOP is because of the mindset of those within the party thinking that it needs to swing more to the middle or to the left in order to pander to the politically correct and to appease liberals in order to garner more votes.  That mindset hasn't worked in the past several presidential election cycles.  In case you haven't noticed, liberalism isn't working.  It hasn't worked in the past and sure as hell won't work in the future.  Those who are supporting Trump have been duped into believing that he, (a long acting liberal) has changed his stripes and has moved to the right; only problem is he continues to flip-flop on the issues and is steadily moving to the left.

#NeverTrump
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2016, 03:42:09 am »
He's throwing out more than he's taking in.  And who he's taking in are liberals.  So good luck with that.

I saw the "menu" for the week of the Republican convention and there is a Trump family member speaking every day.  Those people are not conservative, never have been, and "their" government will be like a Royal Family, as in King/Queen/etc., a title for every family member, a job with their salary set by Trump and paid with taxpayer money.

I will not watch any day of the Trump Convention.  Normally, a TV news station is on all day.  This week, I will watch Turner Classic movies every day.  I work on my computer with the TV on.  Maybe that is multi-tasking, but it is what I do.

This household is a conservative Christian household and it will stay that way no matter what Trump family members do to the country.  Who is John Galt?  We go Galt if Trump wins.   

Offline billva

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2016, 03:43:46 am »
What I notice from the Never Trump people is that they don't respect the vote of the people who clearly voted for Trump.

As to brining in Liberals, I guess there may be some but mostly what he is brining in are people who are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs in the country.  For sure he is not bringing in far left radicals.

If that changes the party then so be it.  As far as I am concerned the party needs changed and that includes changing from the status quo. 

Offline billva

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2016, 03:45:52 am »
I saw the "menu" for the week of the Republican convention and there is a Trump family member speaking every day.  Those people are not conservative, never have been, and "their" government will be like a Royal Family, as in King/Queen/etc., a title for every family member, a job with their salary set by Trump and paid with taxpayer money.

I will not watch any day of the Trump Convention.  Normally, a TV news station is on all day.  This week, I will watch Turner Classic movies every day.  I work on my computer with the TV on.  Maybe that is multi-tasking, but it is what I do.

This household is a conservative Christian household and it will stay that way no matter what Trump family members do to the country.  Who is John Galt?  We go Galt if Trump wins.   

Well enjoy, personally I am going to watch more than I have in recent years.  And all those family members speaking hardly represents what you are stating.

So it's a free world, watch whatever you want to next week.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 03:46:34 am by billva »

Offline Victoria33

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2016, 03:53:02 am »

Your name fits nicely into an Ignore box.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2016, 03:57:40 am »
:amen:  Good for you and your family.

You are one of the good guys.  I read your posts.   :seeya:

Offline billva

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2016, 04:31:14 am »
Your name fits nicely into an Ignore box.


Wow, if my mild comment deserves being put on the ignore box so be it.  If you offend that easy I imagine your ignore box is pretty full.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 04:33:13 am by billva »

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2016, 04:37:51 am »
I for one feel that Trump is expanding the Republican Party and I am for that.

The ONLY expansion, if one could call it that, is bringing in DemRats to help select the other party's nominee, all with the support of the RNC.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2016, 05:08:45 am »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline INVAR

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2016, 05:43:42 am »
I am happy to see people outside the party taking a look at what we stand for and if we don't become more attractive to other voters we will die as a party. 

Your party is already dead.  It's just another arm of the Uniparty Oligarchy in DC with radical Marxists at one end, and Liberal Socialist Democrats on the other.  Congratulations on belonging to the party of the Left.

What I notice from the Never Trump people is that they don't respect the vote of the people who clearly voted for Trump.

I don't respect anyone who votes for liberals, Leftists and Communists.  This was not to be a pure mobocracy - but too many of you big-government types think that it is.

Your prince supported and funded liberals all of his life, including the Clintons.  Less than 3 years ago he funded, campaigned for and voted for Communist Bill DeBlasio for NYC Mayor.

I'm not going to respect a mob that wants to make a vulgar liberal populist nationalist a king.

but mostly what he is brining in are people who are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs in the country. 

He has brought in a mob who wants vengeance and whom want Trump for a dictator if he can punish those whom he blames for their worries.  Trump never discusses the Constitution, individual liberty or the rule of law.  He is "bored" with calling out Hillary's criminality but has no problem bashing Conservatives who will not kiss his ring.

You are supporting a Stalking Horse for Hillary.

If that changes the party then so be it.  As far as I am concerned the party needs changed and that includes changing from the status quo. 

Your party is done and finished and you can have it.  It just officially needs to be folded into the DNC.

Constitutional Conservatives are moving on from you and your dead party while Trump and his mob work to redefine what a Conservative is.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline biff

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2016, 06:18:11 am »
Donnie is building the next family political dynasty in America and he does not care which party he has to commit a hostile takeover to achieve that. He has already stated he would put one or more of his kids in his cabinet.

The Trump Dynasty will make the Clinton/Bush dynasties look tame when it comes to abuse of power.

He will no more perform as a conservative than Hitlery would.

Offline libertybele

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Re: The Fractured Republicans
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2016, 11:53:51 am »
I saw the "menu" for the week of the Republican convention and there is a Trump family member speaking every day.  Those people are not conservative, never have been, and "their" government will be like a Royal Family, as in King/Queen/etc., a title for every family member, a job with their salary set by Trump and paid with taxpayer money.

I will not watch any day of the Trump Convention.  Normally, a TV news station is on all day.  This week, I will watch Turner Classic movies every day.  I work on my computer with the TV on.  Maybe that is multi-tasking, but it is what I do.

This household is a conservative Christian household and it will stay that way no matter what Trump family members do to the country.  Who is John Galt?  We go Galt if Trump wins.

 :amen:   :patriot: :patriot:  I will however, tune in to listen to Cruz speak. I am interested to see if he continues to rally his supporters or if he actually endorses Trump.  My hunch is he will rally his supporters and he will be giving one of the best speeches of his lifetime; though rumor has it Trump has stated that he will rewrite his speech if necessary.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.