Author Topic: Senator Tim Scott: Stopped SEVEN TIMES as US Senator in the last year; Shares personal experiences  (Read 5459 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Blacks are 5 times more likely to be aborted per Rev. Childers at the blackgenocide.org website. Strange how liberals take a time out on this topic.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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How do cops even know that a driver is black? Hard to tell from behind, and I have perfect 20/20 vision.

Certainly nearly impossible to tell at night.

Offline sinkspur

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Speaking of stereotyping;

Yes, it sounds like people have no idea who Tim Scott is.

Anyway, the facts will point out that blacks are pulled over more; seems that is a fact of life at least in many parts of our country.

There may be reasons why this happens, Larry Elder said he's been pulled over a hundred times.

It's the small town police departments who are the most dangerous:

Lack of training, standards mean big problems for small police departments

http://www.usatoday.com/news/
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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How do cops even know that a driver is black? Hard to tell from behind, and I have perfect 20/20 vision.

Certainly nearly impossible to tell at night.

Guess they're just lucky.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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It's the small town police departments who are the most dangerous:

Lack of training, standards mean big problems for small police departments

http://www.usatoday.com/news/

Small town cops pull everyone over more. Speed trap thing, and lack of anything better to do.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Yes there is bigotry, YOURs against white people.

 :amen:

Offline Mechanicos

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It's the small town police departments who are the most dangerous:

Lack of training, standards mean big problems for small police departments

http://www.usatoday.com/news/
ONLY liberals play the race card.
Its Marxism.
https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-by-ussrs-leon.html
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 03:43:03 pm by Mechanicos »
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Offline TomSea

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSfAsbG80CNInSKrtpKoL-w

I subscribed to Senator Scott's youtube channel. His conservative credentials are impeccable.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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So let's see, cops drive behind innocent car, peer in with all their might to see if driver is black (questionable premise IMO), and if so, pull them over... why? To waste time?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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So let's see, cops drive behind innocent car, peer in with all their might to see if driver is black (questionable premise IMO), and if so, pull them over... why? To waste time?

Maybe they don't like black people in principle, or maybe they think that given the statistics, they're more likely to be successful "fishing" for violations if they pull over someone black.  Or maybe it's that they just believe black people are trouble, and so don't want them in their area.  None are legitimate.

Scott's stories about he and his brother being pulled over based solely on a suspicion that the car was stolen -- without any facts other than a black guy driving a Volvo -- are hard to explain away.  I think it is a fairly small minority of officers that do this, but that's really all it takes.  One cop unjustly pulling over just one black guy a week creates 50 bad impressions in a year.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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ONLY liberals play the race card.
Its Marxism.
https://penetrate.blogspot.com/2010/01/racist-word-invented-by-ussrs-leon.html

It's playing the race card when you're trying to excuse behavior that is otherwise inexcusable.  But did you watch Scott's speech?  Dude was pulled over multiple times in a year for essentially no reason other than he was a black guy driving a really nice car.  He didn't do anything for which an excuse is needed.

I think a lot of BLM is b.s. radical Marxist crap.  Not a fan of the movement at all.  But that doesn't meant there aren't problems out there than can/should be addressed.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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It's playing the race card when you're trying to excuse behavior that is otherwise inexcusable.  But did you watch Scott's speech?  Dude was pulled over multiple times in a year for essentially no reason other than he was a black guy driving a really nice car.  He didn't do anything for which an excuse is needed.

I think a lot of BLM is b.s. radical Marxist crap.  Not a fan of the movement at all.  But that doesn't meant there aren't problems out there than can/should be addressed.

Addressed how? What is your solution? A little un-PCness here: blacks live in high crime areas and are also prone to crime themselves. NObody wants to admit that but we all know it's true.

Offline Neverdul

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Unfortunately, I witnessed this type of thing first hand.

Back in the early 2000’s I worked for a small rather upstart tech firm specializing in setting up custom web based HRIS systems and electronic employer insurance enrollment (EDI files from the employers’ HRIS system to their insurance companies’). I was about 40 years old at the time and was one of the few “oldsters” working there.

When I first started working there, in an effort to better get to know my young co-workers, I went to a few Friday after work Happy Hours with some co-workers at a popular local pub.

One of my co-workers was a 30 something who was a senior software developer, young, bright, a college grad, very career orientated but friendly and funny (great sense of humor) and well-liked by everyone. Ben was black and yes, he had dreds, short and very neat dreds, but he did have dread locks.

One Friday after work he offered to buy a round of drinks for our table but when reaching for his bill fold, it wasn’t in his pocket. So he excused himself to go out to his car to look for it, thinking he must have left it on the console or on the passenger seat since he’d gone to a gas station just before coming to the pub.

It seemed he’d been gone for quite a while and someone joked that Ben must have run out on us rather than paying for a round, but that wasn’t the type of guy he was. So several of us walked outside to the parking lot look for him. We were actually worried that Ben might have gotten mugged in the parking lot. 

We saw Ben spread eagle across the hood of his car by a cop. As we walked closer the cop yelled at us to stay back and we heard him radio in that he had a suspected car burglar or possible car thief.

What happened was the cop was doing a drive through of the parking lot, most likely looking for DUI’s when he saw Ben leaning in the passenger side of a late model BMW – a youngish looking black guy with dreds – a BMW…. he thought that looked suspicious. But when he pulled up and asked Ben for his ID, Ben explained he was looking for it in his car, tried to explain the situation when the cop told him to spread over the hood of the car while he called for backup.  As we walked up, we heard the cop asking Ben if he had any weapons or drugs on him and saw he had his hand on his holstered pistol.  Ben was compliant and respectful to the officer, answering “No Sir”.

We told the cop that we knew Ben, that he was with us, that we worked with him and yes, that was his car but he ignored us and kept telling us (all of us white BTW), to go back inside or else we’d get arrested too (which we didn’t).  It wasn’t until another cop came and Ben was, after being patted down, allowed to retrieve his wallet and show his ID, license and registration. The cops left but with no apology.

Ben took it somewhat in stride as this wasn’t the first time something like this had happened to him.

In addition to the number of times he’d been pulled over for very minor things like failure to signal or going 5 miles over the speed limit, he told us that a few months earlier he’d been out running early one Sunday morning through a housing development near his apartment complex.  Ben was looking to buy a house at the time as he was engaged to be married and stopped at a house that had a for sale sign and recorded the address and listing agent’s phone number on his Blackberry so he could follow up when he got home.

A few blocks later a cop pulled up and asked to see Ben’s ID. He was out for a run, wearing running shorts and a tee and hadn’t taken his wallet with him. The cop detained him for some time and asked him all sorts of questions and had him stand at the back of his patrol car while he called in. The cop eventually let him go. Evidently someone reported seeing “a black man” who was suspicious looking and “casing a house”.

Ironically Ben, despite the dreds, was a Republican, had served in the Army Reserves and his older brother was a Maryland State Trooper. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Maybe they don't like black people in principle, or maybe they think that given the statistics, they're more likely to be successful "fishing" for violations if they pull over someone black.  Or maybe it's that they just believe black people are trouble, and so don't want them in their area.  None are legitimate.

Scott's stories about he and his brother being pulled over based solely on a suspicion that the car was stolen -- without any facts other than a black guy driving a Volvo -- are hard to explain away.  I think it is a fairly small minority of officers that do this, but that's really all it takes.  One cop unjustly pulling over just one black guy a week creates 50 bad impressions in a year.
How many black guys do you know who drive Volvos? If I had to pick an unusual vehicle choice for a black guy, that would be one.
Police are trained to look for things that don't fit. Those anomalies, be they vehicle choice, a black guy (or a white one) in the 'wrong' neighborhood, someone dressed so they look out of place in that area of town, anything outside of normally observed patterns. It is a viable and effective tool for spotting criminal activity, just as a weaving vehicle might herald a drunk driver.
Yes, inevitably, some of the unusual appearances and events they witness are perfectly legitimate, and will check out, but often, that is not the case. Otherwise, the profiles wouldn't work, and police would find different criteria to use to suspect something was amiss.

Like Will Smith's character in MIB, "What's a white girl that age doing in this part of town late at night with a bunch of books on nuclear physics?" 

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Addressed how? What is your solution?

I'd suggest state-level hotlines where people who believe they have been mistreated can file a report.  Obviously, the state can't investigate individually every report, but if a clear pattern emerges for certain cops pulling over minorities as a rate much higher than average, you start taking a look at it.  Even some well-placed phone calls about an excessive number of complaints about a particular cop could help with the problem.

Quote
A little un-PCness here: blacks live in high crime areas and are also prone to crime themselves. NObody wants to admit that but we all know it's true.

You can't pull someone over when the only facts you have justifying the stop is the race of the person being stopped.  That's been constitutional law for nearly half a century.  Scott and his brother each got pulled over for suspicion of driving a stolen car, with the only facts supporting that suspicion being that they were black guys driving nice cars.  That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

I'm not complaining about the rate of shootings, etc..  Those are very dangerous areas with people more than willing to kill others -- you'd expect cops in those areas to be on more of a hair-trigger.  But the stuff Scott describes is indefensible.

Offline Mechanicos

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HonestJohn

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Addressed how? What is your solution? A little un-PCness here: blacks live in high crime areas and are also prone to crime themselves. NObody wants to admit that but we all know it's true.

WTH is wrong with you?

All blacks live in high crime areas and commit crimes?!?

Seriously, how the heck can you even look at yourself in the mirror in the morning whiling condemning an entire race of people for the actions of a few?  That's an Osama bin Laden level of hate.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I'd suggest state-level hotlines where people who believe they have been mistreated can file a report.  Obviously, the state can't investigate individually every report, but if a clear pattern emerges for certain cops pulling over minorities as a rate much higher than average, you start taking a look at it.  Even some well-placed phone calls about an excessive number of complaints about a particular cop could help with the problem.

I'm pretty sure you can call police departments and complain. You can sue. You can go to the press. Etc. etc.

Quote
You can't pull someone over when the only facts you have justifying the stop is the race of the person being stopped.  That's been constitutional law for nearly half a century.  Scott and his brother each got pulled over for suspicion of driving a stolen car, with the only facts supporting that suspicion being that they were black guys driving nice cars.  That's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

Hypothetical. Black man commits crime, say shooting. Black man flees. So should the cops not pull black men over out of fear of racism?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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How many black guys do you know who drive Volvos? If I had to pick an unusual vehicle choice for a black guy, that would be one.
Police are trained to look for things that don't fit. Those anomalies, be they vehicle choice, a black guy (or a white one) in the 'wrong' neighborhood, someone dressed so they look out of place in that area of town, anything outside of normally observed patterns. It is a viable and effective tool for spotting criminal activity, just as a weaving vehicle might herald a drunk driver.
Yes, inevitably, some of the unusual appearances and events they witness are perfectly legitimate, and will check out, but often, that is not the case. Otherwise, the profiles wouldn't work, and police would find different criteria to use to suspect something was amiss.

The fact that it works more than stopping every single random vehicle is not a sufficient justification to pull someone over.  For a stop to be justified, there must be an "articulable suspicion" that the person is engaging or planning criminal conduct, and it has to be based on their actions, not just the way they look -- particularly if the look is a matter of birth and not choice.

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Like Will Smith's character in MIB, "What's a white girl that age doing in this part of town late at night with a bunch of books on nuclear physics?"

There is no different logically between pulling over a black guy because he happens to be driving a Volvo, and pulling over a black guy just because they are statistically more likely to have warrants out for their arrest.  In both cases, the only justification is numbers.  How tough would it be for the cop to simply run the plate before pulling the car over?  If it is reported as stolen, great.  If not, even better.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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WTH is wrong with you?

All blacks live in high crime areas and commit crimes?!?

Seriously, how the heck can you even look at yourself in the mirror in the morning whiling condemning an entire race of people for the actions of a few?  That's an Osama bin Laden level of hate.

Didn't say all, should have said "generally". I'm not condemning anyone.

You live in a high crime area you need to expect to be pulled over more. Simple law of averages.

HonestJohn

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I'm pretty sure you can call police departments and complain. You can sue. You can go to the press. Etc. etc.

Hypothetical. Black man commits crime, say shooting. Black man flees. So should the cops not pull black men over out of fear of racism?

White man commits crime, say shooting. White man flees. So should the cops not pull white men over?

You know, any white man.  Cause all you need is just the color of the skin to determine who might be the criminal.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I'm pretty sure you can call police departments and complain. You can sue. You can go to the press. Etc. etc.

Calling the department in question, particularly if it is a smaller one, is much less likely to be effective for obvious reasons.  And suing just because you were pulled over and harassed is not worth the time, money, or effort.  Same with the press -- a single incident of someone getting pulled over isn't a story.  What is wrong with a state-level database/system that would track the number of complaints, and investigate those officers who are receiving a disproportionate number?

Quote
Hypothetical. Black man commits crime, say shooting. Black man flees. So should the cops not pull black men over out of fear of racism?

No -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with pulling over a suspect who matches the description of a person who committed a crime.  But that's not what is happening with the Volvo situation -- there isn't even a hint that a crime has been committed at all.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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White man commits crime, say shooting. White man flees. So should the cops not pull white men over?

You know, any white man.  Cause all you need is just the color of the skin to determine who might be the criminal.

Should race be considered at all? If that's the case, if a white man committed a crime, should black people be considered suspects to be "colorblind"?

Who is suspicious is up to police discretion right? There are no easy answers in that realm of thought IMO.

No we don't randomly pull over every black or white man, but race is still relevant no?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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You live in a high crime area you need to expect to be pulled over more. Simple law of averages.

I agree, but Tim Scott didn't live in a high crime area.  And his brother was driving cross-country.

I have no objection to Terry stops if done in accordance with the law.  Cops should be able to question people who are engaging in activity that is legitimately suspicious.  If you're not familiar with Terry stops, Wikipedia has a decent article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

But the things Scott describes don't qualify.  And part of the problem is that kind of low level harassment simply isn't worth the individual effort to challenge in a court.  You'd more likely lose, and just piss off the local cops for your time and effort.

The advantages of a state-run database is that it would be immune from intra-department politics/friendships, and that you would be looking for outliers.  If the average cop gets 8 complaints a year, but you've got a guy with 70, then maybe that's something that should be looked into.

How can you be opposed to that?



Offline Smokin Joe

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The fact that it works more than stopping every single random vehicle is not a sufficient justification to pull someone over.  For a stop to be justified, there must be an "articulable suspicion" that the person is engaging or planning criminal conduct, and it has to be based on their actions, not just the way they look -- particularly if the look is a matter of birth and not choice.
If that was the case, pulling over a vehicle at closing time for the bars, leaving the bar district, just because they weaved in their lane would not be justified. There is nothing criminal in driving in the bar district at closing time, nor using all of your lane. It IS, however, commonly cited as probable cause--especially under those circumstances--to pull someone over and check for an operator DUI.
That is just one instance where a combination of factors indicate a probability of something amiss.

The alternative would be to wait until the person got into a wreck to check for a drunk driver.

There is no different logically between pulling over a black guy because he happens to be driving a Volvo, and pulling over a black guy just because they are statistically more likely to have warrants out for their arrest.  In both cases, the only justification is numbers.  How tough would it be for the cop to simply run the plate before pulling the car over?  If it is reported as stolen, great.  If not, even better.

Yes, there is a difference. How many black guys do you know who drive Volvos? Perhaps in some areas that is common, but I have never seen a black guy driving a Volvo, no matter where I was in the US. I would think that odd, and I have little doubt the police would, too. It does not fit what many would consider ordinary.

Just pulling someone over because they are black, with no other circumstance which might seem out of the ordinary, is not quite the same thing.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis