LET'S SEE.... WHAT ARE MY CHOICES.?

[RoosGirl]

Okay, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with this statement, by itself.

Here's the rub: I don't think it's the two ideologies you're thinking of. I believe it's two others.

Group One: A group who's "ideology" really hates Hillary, the GOPe, the establishment and all it represents. They fear what Hillary will do and what the GOPe will do if in office and left alone. They are furious about being betrayed by their own party (GOPe) and scared spitless about what Hillary will do if she gains the office. They SAY they believe the Constitution is the defining, baseline rulebook for our country. They believe that contract has been broken. This group is actually a sub-set.

The other ideology, Group Two, really hates Hillary, the GOPe, the establishment and all it represents, too. BUT, it also hates anti-freedom, tyranny, big government, "progressive" causes/mentalities that encroach on freedoms and people who tend to vilify anyone that disagrees with them. They are constitutional conservatives that see the American Contract being broken. They believe the Constitution is the defining, baseline rulebook for our country. They believe that contract has been broken.

Group one has seemed to coalesce around Trump. Trump SAYS he's going to be mean to the establishment. Trump SAYS he's going to fix stuff. Trump SAYS he's going to build a wall, ban muslims, etc. And Group one (rightly, in my mind) thinks that would be terrific. But, Group one also ignores warning signs about Trump. Or if they don't ignore the signs, they just won't allow discussion about them. They tend to vilify and disparage anyone with negative or critical comments about their guy. They are trapped into a binary thought process; either/or.

Group Group two sees Trump as a possible antidote...but one that may have too many side effects to be worth the risk. They don't disagree that much of what he SAYS he'll do would work and they would dig it if someone actually did it. But, because of history and an understanding of the way government works and an understanding of the Constitution , they realize two BIG things:

1. For a lot of what Trump promise to get accomplished to get accomplished, he would have to operate extra-Constitutionally, or Congress would have to cooperate in a fashion that it's NEVER cooperated before, or;
2. Trump ain't gonna get it done at all and is just saying what he needs to say to get people to sign on.

Either way, Group two isn't having any of it. They don't want their name on this person's legacy. They feel like there is ALWAYS another way; a better way.

But even if it is binary, they'll not sacrifice their principles because of a threat. They'll not roll over again, because "our" candidate is [seemingly] closer to our convictions than another.

It's not hard to understand. It's easy if you try.

And taking this principled approach is more honorable...and admittedly, more fraught with danger and risk than the easier, go-with-the-flow option.

It's just an abhorrent choice for us.

We just choose to continue to hunt for alternatives to what we see as two bad choices. And if the "lesser of two evils" is one of the choices, we'd really rather not vote for evil at all.

There's enough around without us putting our imprimatur on it.

Yep, I was right about you. :)

[driftdiver]

Sad to say @mystery-ak but its only going to get worse as we go into the Convention. That is what is causing the increased tension you are seeing. The Anti-Trumps are worried that the Dump Trump is going to fail while the Pro-Trump side is concerned about party corruption and the the establishment on both sides opposed to Trump.

Even after Trump is nominated I expect to see a surge in hostility as a lashing out. Its the tension build up before a battle.

@mystery-ak

This is an example of what kind of post inflames passions.  Even while discussing the name calling and hostility certain posters cannot refrain from passing out the digs.   In this case the Pro Trump peoples motives are pure and honorable while those against Trump are just living in fear.

[RoosGirl]

You may rethink that response; better keep the mods as happy as you can. ;)

[mystery-ak]

@mystery-ak

This is an example of what kind of post inflames passions.  Even while discussing the name calling and hostility certain posters cannot refrain from passing out the digs.   In this case the Pro Trump peoples motives are pure and honorable while those against Trump are just living in fear.

I know I caught it..

[Chasaway]

Yep, I was right about you. :)

[blush]

[mystery-ak]

You may rethink that response; better keep the mods as happy as you can. ;)

LOL...true..I can't afford to lose any of them.. :nometalk:

[RoosGirl]

[blush]

LOL.  Ask around, I'm not right very often, so take my comment for what it's worth. :)

[HonestJohn]

Stop it, @musiclady,  just stop this     We are fighting to save America. 

@DCPatriot

No, you are trying to destroy the very concept of America and replace it with yet another European-style ethno-state.

[kartographer]

He will NEVER learn, which is why he is so dangerous and must never be president.

It isn't that her never learns it is he is never wrong! Even when he is wrong no one especially Trump himself will admit it.

When Trump joked that: "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

Maybe he was joking and maybe he wasn't, but either way it doesn't make it any less true.

[Right_in_Virginia]

No, you are trying to destroy the very concept of America and replace it with yet another European-style ethno-state.

No, @HonestJohn ,,, you are wrong, so deeply and profoundly wrong.

And, please, do not respond...I can no long fight the hatred you have brought to this once honorable site.

Godspeed.

    to:

@alicewonders
@flowers
@aligncare
@DCPatriot
@Repub4Trump
@mystery-ak
@sinkspur (Thanks for the tango through the years  ^-^)

[musiclady]

No, you are trying to destroy the very concept of America and replace it with yet another European-style ethno-state.

You know, I have RiV on "IGNORE" because she is always nasty.  ALWAYS.


So it's funny to see her chastising me and pretending I don't love the country because I don't support her beloved vulgar, degenerate, dictator wannabe, Progressive, punk of a candidate.

Actually, it is my LOVE of country that will not be a part of destroying it by voting for Trump.

[HonestJohn]

No, @HonestJohn ,,, you are wrong, so deeply and profoundly wrong.

And, please, do not respond...I can no long fight the hatred you have brought to this once honorable site.

We are done.

I still wish you all Godspeed.

@mystery-ak
@Repub4Trump

Trump wants to ban Muslims coming to our nation, until the government can 'figure out whats going on'. (and since we all know that the government is incompetent, that means a permanent ban)

That is picking what religions make up an American.

Furthermore, he has called an American, born in America to American citizens... a Mexican.  That shows he does not find those of Mexican descent capable of being American.

Once again defining the notion of an American as something derived from one's birth, inherited by blood.

And that is the very foundational concept of a European-style ethno-state.  Serbia, for example.

---

America is a different sort of nation, one founded on an ideal.  That all men are create equal.  America is not defined by race, ethnicity, or religion.  It consists of those that believe in her ideals.

And it's increasingly obvious that Trump and his supporters do not believe in those ideals.

[LMAO]

@Mechanicos
I concede your point that for the most part the things you highlighted are not what he has said. Ultimately, though,  it comes down to this:
The vast majority of trumpeters are basing their choice on what he has said throughout this campaign season, as is their right.  The vast majority of #neverTrump are basing their decision on what he has DONE throughout his life, as is our right.  You will not convince us that Trump is just fine and dandy because we have a record by which he can be judged.  The trumpeters dismiss that record in lieu of what he says now.

And ne'er the twain shall meet.

Agree with the above. If Trump was in Congress for 20 years, he would, with his past statements and positions, be at least labeled a RINO.

Like you, if he wins and proves me wrong, I'll happily admit such because if those of us who oppose Trump turn out to be correct about him, the results would be disastrous. Right now, the choice is do you dismiss all past statements and positions and roll the dice and take a chance what he's saying now is real or do you trust your gut instinct and withhold your vote?

The fact is, Trump is more comfortable hanging around the elite and the beautiful people than he would be around those that currently support him. It's not a criticism of him just a fact.

[Victoria33]

@Mechanicos
I think it's safe to assume that we can all safely ignore anything you say from here on out as you have no answers.  I

Mechanicos made his way onto my "Ignore" list.  He reminds me of WENDLE on TOS.  I didn't have conversations with him, either, for the same reason.  That reason is, some people have a goal of agitation and only that.  I don't enter into their weak dialog.
@CatherineofAragon

[LMAO]

Okay, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with this statement, by itself.

Here's the rub: I don't think it's the two ideologies you're thinking of. I believe it's two others.

Group One: A group who's "ideology" really hates Hillary, the GOPe, the establishment and all it represents. They fear what Hillary will do and what the GOPe will do if in office and left alone. They are furious about being betrayed by their own party (GOPe) and scared spitless about what Hillary will do if she gains the office. They SAY they believe the Constitution is the defining, baseline rulebook for our country. They believe that contract has been broken. This group is actually a sub-set.

The other ideology, Group Two, really hates Hillary, the GOPe, the establishment and all it represents, too. BUT, it also hates anti-freedom, tyranny, big government, "progressive" causes/mentalities that encroach on freedoms and people who tend to vilify anyone that disagrees with them. They are constitutional conservatives that see the American Contract being broken. They believe the Constitution is the defining, baseline rulebook for our country. They believe that contract has been broken.

Group one has seemed to coalesce around Trump. Trump SAYS he's going to be mean to the establishment. Trump SAYS he's going to fix stuff. Trump SAYS he's going to build a wall, ban muslims, etc. And Group one (rightly, in my mind) thinks that would be terrific. But, Group one also ignores warning signs about Trump. Or if they don't ignore the signs, they just won't allow discussion about them. They tend to vilify and disparage anyone with negative or critical comments about their guy. They are trapped into a binary thought process; either/or.

Group Group two sees Trump as a possible antidote...but one that may have too many side effects to be worth the risk. They don't disagree that much of what he SAYS he'll do would work and they would dig it if someone actually did it. But, because of history and an understanding of the way government works and an understanding of the Constitution , they realize two BIG things:

1. For a lot of what Trump promise to get accomplished to get accomplished, he would have to operate extra-Constitutionally, or Congress would have to cooperate in a fashion that it's NEVER cooperated before, or;
2. Trump ain't gonna get it done at all and is just saying what he needs to say to get people to sign on.

Either way, Group two isn't having any of it. They don't want their name on this person's legacy. They feel like there is ALWAYS another way; a better way.

But even if it is binary, they'll not sacrifice their principles because of a threat. They'll not roll over again, because "our" candidate is [seemingly] closer to our convictions than another.

It's not hard to understand. It's easy if you try.

And taking this principled approach is more honorable...and admittedly, more fraught with danger and risk than the easier, go-with-the-flow option.

It's just an abhorrent choice for us.

We just choose to continue to hunt for alternatives to what we see as two bad choices. And if the "lesser of two evils" is one of the choices, we'd really rather not vote for evil at all.

There's enough around without us putting our imprimatur on it.

Good post

[driftdiver]

Mechanicos made his way onto my "Ignore" list.  He reminds me of WENDLE on TOS.  I didn't have conversations with him, either, for the same reason.  That reason is, some people have a goal of agitation and only that.  I don't enter into their weak dialog.
@CatherineofAragon

Where or where is this ignore list.   I cannot find any such animal

[verga]

But even if it is binary, they'll not sacrifice their principles because of a threat. They'll not roll over again, because "our" candidate is [seemingly] closer to our convictions than another.

It's not hard to understand. It's easy if you try.

And taking this principled approach is more honorable...and admittedly, more fraught with danger and risk than the easier, go-with-the-flow option.

It's just an abhorrent choice for us.

We just choose to continue to hunt for alternatives to what we see as two bad choices. And if the "lesser of two evils" is one of the choices, we'd really rather not vote for evil at all.

There's enough around without us putting our imprimatur on it.

@Chasaway  Exactly I can't stand either of them.

[EC]

Where or where is this ignore list.   I cannot find any such animal

Hit the profile button at the top of the page.
Hover over modify profile. A menu pops up.
Buddies/ignore is the bottom option. Just follow instructions.

[WAC]

We don't care what you think.
We side with an actual Conservative, whether Castle or whomever we write in.
We're against you.
We stand against you.
You and your Trump Militant compatriots have made us your enemy.
We don't care what the outcome is between two liberal NYC buffoons.

How can you say such personal things about another poster here. I can tolerate a lot but when I see this type of language used you're sounding just like the Trumpsters on FR......you really do.

As for not caring...well that's been obvious for some time....but most here do care what people think, and do care what the outcome of this election is.  And we sure don't see any Trump supporters as Militant.......

I just think it's time some here back off the insults....IMO....it's going to far and those doing it know it.  Like it or not there are two candidates at the top of the race......I don't think it's even close to fair claiming anyone who has chosen to support an enemy...they are not...they're simply a voter and after the election TBR will still be here for us ALL.....

[driftdiver]

Hit the profile button at the top of the page.
Hover over modify profile. A menu pops up.
Buddies/ignore is the bottom option. Just follow instructions.

Beautiful.  Thank you.   I had checked the modify profile but didn't see the hover menu.

[Victoria33]

Okay, obviously this board is going the way FR went with the constant wrist-slapping of anything negative of Trump and his precious supporters here on this board.
I guess Constitutional Conservatives will need to find another board.

I also post at "The Conservative Circle".  Ex-FR people started that board.  You will recognize them.  I find this board to be fine, there are people I know from FR and other people here are nice as long as I use "ignore" for some.  Our country is full of informed and uninformed people and less smart IQ people and smarter IQ people, and sometimes communication between two people just doesn't click.  I don't try to force communication, if it doesn't work, it doesn't.

[INVAR]

How can you say such personal things about another poster here.

They make it easy. I do not suffer bullies and we're tired of putting up with the accusations that voting for anyone but Trump makes us Hillary supporters.

That is how and why I say what I say.

I can tolerate a lot but when I see this type of language used you're sounding just like the Trumpsters on FR......you really do.

Double standard much?  They asked for this fight since since day one I began posting here.  The Trump Militant can dish it out but apparently cannot take it in-kind.  They wanted this fight, they got it.

And we sure don't see any Trump supporters as Militant...….

I do.  You simply choose not to see it.

I just think it's time some here back off the insults....IMO....it's going to far and those doing it know it. 

"Some here"???? No, no, no.  What you mean is "The NeverTrumps need to back off".  I've watched the Trump people do this on 3 boards now in the last two months: scream about civility - shut down any those they oppose by claiming insults and offense while goading them into attack by subtlety and silence any dissent towards their comments or their Chosen by using the mod staff to create more Trump Safe Spaces.

Like it or not there are two candidates at the top of the race……

No, WRONG.

There are plenty of Conservative candidates running for the office of President this cycle.  Some who will be written in.  Some who are third party.

I don't think it's even close to fair claiming anyone who has chosen to support an enemy

"Hillary Supporter"; "Helping Hillary"; "If you are not for us you are against us"??????  "Traitor"?????  Stop with the parsing and semantics, we know what the Trump people mean.

they're simply a voter and after the election TBR will still be here for us ALL.....

I'm not telling you people you should not vote for your Chosen.  I'm taking issue with those of you who are calling us Hillary Supporters; Traitors; Irrational; Aiders and Abetters of the enemy; etc., etc., etc. and who continually assault, destroy, impugn and otherwise trash every Conservative not supporting Trump whether they are running Independent or not.  The Trump Militant still cannot help bash and trash Cruz each day not to mention bashing my faith around because my principles are unmovable.

The Trump people wanted this internecine war.  They stoke it each and every day. 

Unlike some, I fight back. I don't back down.

For you to tell me to back off is not acceptable when we are told we are the enemy, we are told we are either for Trump or against Trump and that our principles and faith are ridiculed as a threat to the country.

[Mechanicos]

How can you say such personal things about another poster here. I can tolerate a lot but when I see this type of language used you're sounding just like the Trumpsters on FR......you really do.

As for not caring...well that's been obvious for some time....but most here do care what people think, and do care what the outcome of this election is.  And we sure don't see any Trump supporters as Militant.......

I just think it's time some here back off the insults....IMO....it's going to far and those doing it know it.  Like it or not there are two candidates at the top of the race......I don't think it's even close to fair claiming anyone who has chosen to support an enemy...they are not...they're simply a voter and after the election TBR will still be here for us ALL.....

@WAC , its not a problem. I have had training both in the military and as a civilian to handle taunts, insults, mocking, etc. Really, they have zero effect on me. I do find it funny sometimes because it seems the goal is to get a rise out of me and it fails so badly.   

[WAC]

Why not just stick to the issues the candidates present???  Trump and just defend and put your candidates positions out there?

I find it interesting that the people making the loudest protests are those not voting for either Hillary or Trump......when they've already disengaged from the General election  which looks to be Trump and Hillary.

[Silver Pines]

Okay, obviously this board is going the way FR went with the constant wrist-slapping of anything negative of Trump and his precious supporters here on this board.

I guess Constitutional Conservatives will need to find another board.

Invar, come on. no  it isn't.  We were told upfront that the moderators have a light hand and don't like to step in unless it's truly necessary. 

We're all adults.  I don't think we need to be running to the mods for help.   We should be able to deal with others' posts without having melt downs.

This Constitutional Conservative is staying right here.  I like it fine.