Of course, Evangelicals can vote for Trump

[don-o]

Of course, Evangelicals can vote for Trump

By Dr. Jack Graham Published June 22, 2016

Dr. Jack Graham is a former President of the Southern Baptist Convention, and Pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in metropolitan Dallas, one of the ten largest churches in America.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/06/22/course-evangelicals-can-vote-for-trump.html

 want to address the crisis of conscience that many conservative evangelicals face when wrestling with what to do with Donald Trump.

As a pastor, I have been party to countless conversations among fellow Christians about whether to support Mr. Trump, or not.

While I do not endorse candidates, I could easily vote for Mr. Trump this November without endorsing him, his behavior, his language or his “temperament”.

Let me explain.

To use the now cliché line in many faith circles, we are electing a Commander in Chief, not a Theologian in Chief. His words and behavior have left many conservatives thinking, “we want to support you Mr. Trump, but why must you make it so difficult?”

It is true we have some concerns.

At the same time, we must face the facts.

Mr. Trump has ignited a movement that most of us didn’t see coming. I certainly didn’t. He has been underestimated time and again and despite the establishment’s most ardent efforts to block his nomination, his core appeal resiliently overshadows his flaws.

After spending much of my morning yesterday with Mr. Trump in a small meeting in his office and in a larger meeting attended by 1000 of the nation’s most influential Christian leaders, I would vote for Donald Trump because he has convinced me he will fight for the issues that matter most to conservatives.  And one thing is certain with Mr. Trump –  for better or worse, he’s not afraid of a fight

exc - more weak beer at source

[Silver Pines]

That silly stuff about a "movement" has nothing to do with Trump's fitness for office.  He's a con man with a smooth line--as one of the victims of Trump U said, Donald has the ability to convince people of anything.

It's sad that so many in the Evangelical church are such gullible marks.

[don-o]

That silly stuff about a "movement" has nothing to do with Trump's fitness for office.  He's a con man with a smooth line--as one of the victims of Trump U said, Donald has the ability to convince people of anything.

It's sad that so many in the Evangelical church are such gullible marks.

What is even sadder, imo. is the fact that, though he mentions "crisis of conscience" in his first sentence, he goes on to totally ignore it in the rest of his puffery.
 

He has been underestimated time and again and despite the establishment’s most ardent efforts to block his nomination, his core appeal resiliently overshadows his flaws.

Kind of scatter gun rhetoric to try to justify pragmatism over principles is the best I can make of that doozy.

[Silver Pines]

What is even sadder, imo. is the fact that, though he mentions "crisis of conscience" in his first sentence, he goes on to totally ignore it in the rest of his puffery.
 
Kind of scatter gun rhetoric to try to justify pragmatism over principles is the best I can make of that doozy.

Trump posed for a photo with Jerry Falwell, Jr. after the meeting with the evangelicals.  On the wall behind them was a framed Playboy magazine cover; in that particular issue, Trump stated that Jesus Christ had a bigger ego than you would ever understand.

I would really like to ask Dr. Graham if he finds that remark appealing. 

[XenaLee]

Of course, Evangelicals can vote for Trump

By Dr. Jack Graham Published June 22, 2016

Dr. Jack Graham is a former President of the Southern Baptist Convention, and Pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in metropolitan Dallas, one of the ten largest churches in America.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/06/22/course-evangelicals-can-vote-for-trump.html

 want to address the crisis of conscience that many conservative evangelicals face when wrestling with what to do with Donald Trump.

As a pastor, I have been party to countless conversations among fellow Christians about whether to support Mr. Trump, or not.

While I do not endorse candidates, I could easily vote for Mr. Trump this November without endorsing him, his behavior, his language or his “temperament”.

Let me explain.

To use the now cliché line in many faith circles, we are electing a Commander in Chief, not a Theologian in Chief. His words and behavior have left many conservatives thinking, “we want to support you Mr. Trump, but why must you make it so difficult?”

It is true we have some concerns.

At the same time, we must face the facts.

Mr. Trump has ignited a movement that most of us didn’t see coming. I certainly didn’t. He has been underestimated time and again and despite the establishment’s most ardent efforts to block his nomination, his core appeal resiliently overshadows his flaws.

After spending much of my morning yesterday with Mr. Trump in a small meeting in his office and in a larger meeting attended by 1000 of the nation’s most influential Christian leaders, I would vote for Donald Trump because he has convinced me he will fight for the issues that matter most to conservatives.  And one thing is certain with Mr. Trump – for better or worse, he’s not afraid of a fight

exc - more weak beer at source

Not exactly a criteria that I would consider necessary in a US President....when you consider that the ones he has been fighting with the most are folks on the right.

[Silver Pines]

You mean Dr. Falwell?

No, I was referring to Jack Graham, the author of the article.

[Silver Pines]

True.  We aren't all gullible though.

That's true, thank God.  Honestly, though, I'm thinking Steve Deace was right when he said the Evangelical church is very sick.

[INVAR]

Graham's reasoning is the kind that men of flesh often resort to in order to justify sin.

It's the very same kind of reasoning that created Chrislam and "All paths go to heaven" and "Thou shall not judge" nonsense.

Graham is the kind of pastor that you saw at the end of the film "Kingdom of Heaven" when after the Muslim horses under Saladin sack Jerusalem, he reasons the situation and exclaims "Convert to Islam now, repent later".

[kartographer]

That silly stuff about a "movement"

Maybe you are standing up wind, but it sure 'smells' like a movement to me. 

[WAC]

 
 To me, it is not so hard when I think that the gospel is too precious a gem to become a political football. Nor is it negotiable at all.   So draw the moral values from religion and fight the theological battles anywhere other than the political arena.  That's why I'll stand proudly with a political conservative of whatever religious beliefs.  Two different things.  I don't have to sellout the one to join forces for the other.

 But weren't many of these Evangelicals, however reluctantly, voting for Mitt Romney in 2012?...a man who many would see as a 'public' "idolater"?...and thinks he himself will be a god someday. ....If they can wink at open, first-order idolatry, why not wink at vulgarity and adultery?

Am recalling my own struggle about Trump.....did a lot of work at what voting is......It's actually is our civic responsibility. God has enabled us to have at least somewhat of a voice..... Remain silent, and the voices of 'others' Hillary's voice will rule.... likely says it close to the best I can get to explain.

[roamer_1]

Am recalling my own struggle about Trump.....did a lot of work at what voting is......It's actually is our civic responsibility. God has enabled us to have at least somewhat of a voice..... Remain silent, and the voices of 'others' Hillary's voice will rule.... likely says it close to the best I can get to explain.

Almost true. But that vote, if you believe the Founders, was meant to be a positive endorsement - You are supposed to vote for that which you believe in. If you study why they felt that parties were just slightly acceptable, you would find that it was precisely because it might water down that endorsement with team spirit and negative voting (voting against the other team).

It's not a football game, with no real difference in outcome - It is a sacred honor, and should be treated as such.

For that reason, I will endorse the Constitution Party candidate, Darrell Castle, because, as a Conservative, I can find hardly any flaw in what they present.

[musiclady]

That silly stuff about a "movement" has nothing to do with Trump's fitness for office.  He's a con man with a smooth line--as one of the victims of Trump U said, Donald has the ability to convince people of anything.

It's sad that so many in the Evangelical church are such gullible marks.

That's what's breaking my heart..... the gullibility of so many who ought to know better.

The seriousness of supporting a man as vile as Trump and claiming that it's consistent with Christianity is troubling.

The lack of discernment in seeing no problem with doing so from a spiritual standpoint is, to me, an indicator of why the Evangelical Church is so ineffective and weak.

It has lost its way and has become no different than the world that we are supposed to be separate from.

[musiclady]

But weren't many of these Evangelicals, however reluctantly, voting for Mitt Romney in 2012?...a man who many would see as a 'public' "idolater"?...and thinks he himself will be a god someday. ....If they can wink at open, first-order idolatry, why not wink at vulgarity and adultery?

Am recalling my own struggle about Trump.....did a lot of work at what voting is......It's actually is our civic responsibility. God has enabled us to have at least somewhat of a voice..... Remain silent, and the voices of 'others' Hillary's voice will rule.... likely says it close to the best I can get to explain.

Once again, opposing Trump is not "remaining silent."  It is standing up for the most important principles a Christian is commanded to uphold.

Voting for a man totally devoid of integrity is unthinkable for many of us.

btw, the Romney stuff is why I, as an Evangelical, left TOS.  Rationalizing away Trump's debauchery and comparing it to Romney's religion doesn't cut it here.

[musiclady]

I didn't vote for Romney because I saw him as a liberal flip flopper and a parser of words.  I didn't trust him.  But he did not have the character flaws Trump has.  It's not even close.  Nor did he have that massive ego.  God will be the judge of these men's souls one day.  My duty is to assess their fitness to serve as President.  If the two major parties do not offer a single respectable choice between them, well I won't vote for either.  I'll write in a vote.  God will be the judge.  I've been reading Psalms lately.  I highly recommend it to anyone who wants the Christian answer about how to view God's relationship to nations, leaders, and people in general from a common grace perspective.  Trump can't make America great if God decides to judge us.  God ALWAYS judges the proud, arrogant type the harshest.  Is that not Trump in spades?  IMO, Trump is entirely unfit to serve.  The fact that Hillary is too doesn't make it ok.

As for the "evangelical leaders,"  answers will vary.   From my perspective, they look foolish following after Trump.

The Mormon beliefs of Romney didn't matter because our Constitution, Bill of Rights and form of government means he cannot force me to believe those things.  His character was relevant.  His moral behavior and beliefs were relevant.  His political beliefs were relevant.  His political history was relevant.  The fact that he believed he would be a god someday was not relevant.  He answers to God for that one.  Not me.  Trump, on the other hand, is completely deficient in ways that have everything to do with the job.  He's deficient in character, morality, political beliefs, political history, temperament, etc.

Well said.

[WAC]

 You stated.......'I didn't vote for Romney'.... because I saw him as a liberal flip flopper and a parser of words.  I didn't trust him.  But he did not have the character flaws Trump has. ..........My duty is to assess their fitness to serve as President.  If the two major parties do not offer a single respectable choice between them, well I won't vote for either.  I'll write in a vote.  God will be the judge.

So you vote based then on how "fit" you see a Candidate.......which I'll assume those are of course based on the Principles you believe they should have. ...And if those aren't there then you don't vote for either.

But I do believe that God sets up leaders...and in our country we do have Parties and they do proclaim the winner of those who run.  Any of the other candidates would have surely passed to some degree the "standards" of fitness.  But they didn't win.  We got the man we got regardless of how he got there he's there along with Hillary.

I'm beginning to think God may well have got fed up with the politicians and thru Trump in to shake the house and the public 'up' ....or even perhaps to tear down what's prevented this government from operating as it was designed to do. We may not like who he selected ...if he gets the go ahead.....but there's no explanation I can find reasonable to justify why Cruz didn't make it......He's just not the man for THIS HOUR. .....and perhaps Trump, because he really has nothing to loose...might be what's needed to tear down those walls in Washington because those otherwise elected have failed to do so on our side.

[sitetest]

Of course, Evangelicals can vote for Trump

By Dr. Jack Graham Published June 22, 2016

Of course they can.

But I don't think that God will like it.

[Mechanicos]

From the article a rational and thoughtful basis for his position was articulated.

It’s Trump’s position on three key issues that encourage me. The first - and most important - is that of The Supreme Court. Trump’s campaign recently released a list of potential Supreme Court Nominees, all of which are judges who will uphold the constitution without attempting to legislate from the bench. I cannot overstate the importance of this. Any honest conservative should commend this list of nominees.

The second issue is the protection and sanctity of life. Now I know that candidate Trump has changed his position on this particular issue and many question his sincerity. But, I’m a pastor and I love it when someone changes their mind and comes over to the right side of an issue! I choose to believe Mr. Trump has truly converted to support life and will be a protector of the unborn.

And what is the alternative? Hillary Clinton is clearly in favor of legalized abortion. There is no choice here for me and millions of evangelical Christians. We will vote life every time. We will vote principle over personality, party, or our pocket books.

The last issue is that of Religious Liberty. Trump has brought greater voice to the concerns held by many Americans when it comes to our faith. With a great marketer’s instinct, he sums it up like this, “When I’m President, we’ll say Merry Christmas again.” It’s an impressively simplistic - but effective  - way of articulating a widely held conviction.  As Christians, we believe the left’s agenda is to marginalize Christianity to the sidelines, diminishing our influence and many of the faith traditions we cherish.

[don-o]

From the article a rational and thoughtful basis for his position was articulated.

I need more that a few bullet points of plausibility  and wishful thinking. I have zero confidence that any of this represents a hill or ditch that Trump would "die" on.

I am fairly confident that all of it is negotiable when deal making has to be done.

[Mechanicos]

I need more that a few bullet points of plausibility  and wishful thinking. I have zero confidence that any of this represents a hill or ditch that Trump would "die" on.

I am fairly confident that all of it is negotiable when deal making has to be done.

The flaw in this #neverTrump argument is the fact that is presumes all who have ever done business with Trump for decades are foolish gullible suckers who keep getting taken in by a con artist. Reality says in real world he has a good business reputation and smart sophisticated people have had no problems trusting him to keep his word for decades.

Exceptions to the rule do not a rule make.

[don-o]

The flaw in this #neverTrump argument is the fact that is presumes all who have ever done business with Trump for decades are foolish gullible suckers .......

Balderdash. What are straw men going for these days? About a dime a dozen?

The real "foolish gullible suckers" are those who cannot discern the superficial nature of everything Trump utters related to Christianity. I doubt he even focus grouped what works and what doesn't.

After all, he only has to consult himself and that "great mind."

Oh... and "the shows."

[jmyrlefuller]

The flaw in this #neverTrump argument is the fact that is presumes all who have ever done business with Trump for decades are foolish gullible suckers who keep getting taken in by a con artist. Reality says in real world he has a good business reputation and smart sophisticated people have had no problems trusting him to keep his word for decades.

Exceptions to the rule do not a rule make.

Given his well-publicized patronage of Mafia businesses, it's also possible many of them were extorted into continuing business with Trump.

[Mechanicos]

Given his well-publicized patronage of Mafia businesses, it's also possible many of them were extorted into continuing business with Trump.

You do realize he has multinational business dealings not just New York right? Decades with tens of thousands of transactions with thousands of people, not all who would be suckers for a con obviously...

I do not know where you live but a corrupt local business does not last long in most places. One lives and dies on their reputation and Brand Identity... 
The Trump name alone has a court recognized  goodwill value for good business reputation. 
http://hauteliving.com/2010/04/the-hefty-weight-of-the-trump-name/40182/

That's not something a long-term con-artist can pull off.

[jmyrlefuller]

You do realize he has multinational business dealings not just New York right? Decades with tens of thousands of transactions with thousands of people, not all who would be suckers for a con obviously...

I do not know where you live but a corrupt local business does not last long in most places. One lives and dies on their reputation and Brand Identity... 
The Trump name alone has a court recognized  goodwill value for good business reputation. 
http://hauteliving.com/2010/04/the-hefty-weight-of-the-trump-name/40182/

That's not something a long-term con-artist can pull off.

The Mafia isn't confined to New York, either—and they've been around over a century now. What's your point?

[INVAR]

The Mafia isn't confined to New York, either—and they've been around over a century now. What's your point?

The point is that there has never been a more successful, honest and stratospheric businessman who can walk on water like Trump, and you are just a Hater and too stupid to acknowledge the superiority and prowess of our nation's greatest patriot since George Washington.

[musiclady]

The point is that there has never been a more successful, honest and stratospheric businessman who can walk on water like Trump, and you are just a Hater and too stupid to acknowledge the superiority and prowess of our nation's greatest patriot since George Washington.

Since George Washington??  I'm pretty sure he beats Washington out in the "walks on water" group.......... (at least this one!)