Author Topic: Organizers: Hundreds of GOP delegates on anti-Trump call #DonaldTrump  (Read 1270 times)

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Offline ABX

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About 1,000 Republicans nationwide participated in a conference call Sunday night discussing the effort to prevent Donald Trump from getting the Republican presidential nomination at the party's convention next month, according to organizers.
 
The figure would represent a sharp rise from the roughly three dozen people who were said to have taken part in a similar call last week, according to CNN. News outlets were unable to independently confirm the number of people on the call....

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/284076-hundreds-of-republicans-entertain-anti-trump-effort


Offline Mechanicos

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So the GOPe delegates (which includes the Cruz people) think they are going to violate the law of a republic and install Jeb?
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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So the GOPe delegates (which includes the Cruz people) think they are going to violate the law of a republic and install Jeb?

No law that says you must vote one way or the other.

Offline Mechanicos

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No law that says you must vote one way or the other.
We are guaranteed a Republican form of Government in the US Constitution. Not a Ruling class gets to pick who rules over us. And make no mistake thats who is doing this, not conservative Americans not moral people. But agents of the perpetual ruling class protecting their self interests. 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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We are guaranteed a Republican form of Government in the US Constitution. Not a Ruling class gets to pick who rules over us. And make no mistake thats who is doing this, not conservative Americans not moral people. But agents of the perpetual ruling class protecting their self interests.

At no point should anyone be compelled to vote one way or the other. Doing so would make it a non-Republic. Period.

If you are talking about getting rid of delegates that is one thing. But a citizen should never be breaking the law by voting one way or the other.

Offline austingirl

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The convention is run by the RNC, which is a private political entity and is not the government.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline Mechanicos

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At no point should anyone be compelled to vote one way or the other. Doing so would make it a non-Republic. Period.

If you are talking about getting rid of delegates that is one thing. But a citizen should never be breaking the law by voting one way or the other.

Fact, they are not voters. They are the representative of voters, They have no say in it since they are representing the people who sent them there not themselves. This is the same argument our current crop of so called Conservatives uses in DC. Promise to represent the people then do what they hell they want. Either they are representatives or they are nothing.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Online Timber Rattler

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So the GOPe delegates (which includes the Cruz people) think they are going to violate the law of a republic and install Jeb?

Uh....the Republican Party is a non-governmental organization and can change its own rules and nominate its own candidates however it see fit.  No laws to be broken here.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Fact, they are not voters. They are the representative of voters, They have no say in it since they are representing the people who sent them there not themselves. This is the same argument our current crop of so called Conservatives uses in DC. Promise to represent the people then do what they hell they want. Either they are representatives or they are nothing.

Should we have laws against Congressmen for not voting certain ways?

Delegates are chosen so that they may make a vote.

Offline Mechanicos

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Should we have laws against Congressmen for not voting certain ways?

Delegates are chosen so that they may make a vote.
In many states we do see the recall laws. Here the Delegates are not voters but Representatives of the voters in their State and made a commitment do what they agreed too. Unless they are unbound by their State they have no right to vote on their own. The primary happened. Unless you think this is a Ruling Class run dictatorship where the Republic no longer exists. We either are a republic still or we are a Tyranny.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Online Timber Rattler

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Fact, they are not voters. They are the representative of voters, They have no say in it since they are representing the people who sent them there not themselves. This is the same argument our current crop of so called Conservatives uses in DC. Promise to represent the people then do what they hell they want. Either they are representatives or they are nothing.

I guess you need to go back and review the reason why the Founders settled on a Republican form of government rather than a pure democracy, so that the elected representatives would be more inclined to vote smartly, rather than to the whims of the mob.

As an example, read about what happened to the Arginusae generals after they had won a great victory over the Spartans in ancient Greece.  And then to Socrates himself.

http://branemrys.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-aftermath-of-arginusae.html

aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline thatcher

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The Founders were delegates -- think that worked out pretty well.


Offline RoosGirl

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We are guaranteed a Republican form of Government in the US Constitution. Not a Ruling class gets to pick who rules over us. And make no mistake thats who is doing this, not conservative Americans not moral people. But agents of the perpetual ruling class protecting their self interests.

Does the US Constitution say how candidates for President are chosen?

Offline Mechanicos

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Does the US Constitution say how candidates for President are chosen?
Yes it does. And the Electors have no right to vote their own interest over what the state does either.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline ABX

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Yes it does. And the Electors have no right to vote their own interest over what the state does either.

Actually, this is a Delegate process and the Constitution does not mention that at all- that is a party function. Electors are not what's in play here, party delegates are. How a party chooses a candidate is up to the party.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Yes it does. And the Electors have no right to vote their own interest over what the state does either.

That idea is controversial. Faithless electors have existed throughout the Republic, and many states have laws against them, but it's actually never gone before a judge (not that is the ultimate arbiter of Constitutionality). FE's have just simply never affected any election.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 03:13:46 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline RoosGirl

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Actually, this is a Delegate process and the Constitution does not mention that at all- that is a party function. Electors are not what's in play here, party delegates are. How a party chooses a candidate is up to the party.

Thank you.  That's the point I was trying to make.  The Constitution tells us how the President is elected, but has nothing about choosing who the candidates are.

Online Timber Rattler

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Yes it does. And the Electors have no right to vote their own interest over what the state does either.

Who says?
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline HoustonSam

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Yes it does. And the Electors have no right to vote their own interest over what the state does either.

The US Constitution says absolutely zero, not a single syllable of even one word, about how candidates for President are chosen.

Political parties are private organizations and under no legal obligation to choose candidates on the basis of the popular vote.  Rejecting the popular vote might be unwise and destructive to a party, but it would be fully legal and constitutional.
James 1:20

Online Timber Rattler

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That idea is controversial. Faithless electors have existed throughout the Republic, and many states have laws against them, but it's actually never gone before a judge (not that is the ultimate arbiter of Constitutionality). FE's have just simply never affected any election.

The whole point of the electors, typically educated and property-owning men of stature within their communities, was to keep the election of presidents out of the hands of a frenzied mob.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," psychopathic POS, and depraved SOB.

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

"If you want peace, prepare for war." ---Flavius Vegetius Renatus

Offline Mechanicos

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Actually, this is a Delegate process and the Constitution does not mention that at all- that is a party function. Electors are not what's in play here, party delegates are. How a party chooses a candidate is up to the party.
Thanks for pointing out this is the Party leadership doing this not conservatives or or the voters. Its about protecting the Corruption in DC not whats best for America or our children.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Jazzhead

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Thanks for pointing out this is the Party leadership doing this not conservatives or or the voters. Its about protecting the Corruption in DC not whats best for America or our children.

No, it's about preventing an unhinged fascist gasbag from gaining the nomination, thereby ensuring a victory for Hillary Clinton in November.    There's no better way to ensure the continued corruption in Washington than preventing the delegates from voting their consciences.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Texas Yellow Rose

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Fact, they are not voters. They are the representative of voters, They have no say in it since they are representing the people who sent them there not themselves. This is the same argument our current crop of so called Conservatives uses in DC. Promise to represent the people then do what they hell they want. Either they are representatives or they are nothing.

...

https://ballotpedia.org/Verbatim_fact_check:_Would_it_be_%22totally_illegal%22_for_delegates_pledged_to_Donald_Trump_to_vote_for_another_candidate_at_the_Republican_National_Convention%3F

This link provides "Election laws relating to delegates by state (click "show" to open)"

"It's also not clear if any of those state laws are constitutional. While the U.S. Supreme Court has never ruled on how delegates may vote at a political party’s national convention, it has ruled on whether a state’s laws can supersede a party’s convention rules.

In Cousins v. Wagoda (1975), the Supreme Court ruled on whether a circuit court was “correct in according primacy to state law over the [Democratic] Party’s rules in the determination of the qualifications and eligibility of delegates to the Party’s National Convention.”[5] In an 8-1 decision, the justices held that the lower court had been incorrect. In the majority opinion, Justice William Brennan wrote,

“The States themselves have no constitutionally mandated role in the great task of the selection of Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates. If the qualifications and eligibility of delegates to National Political Party Conventions were left to state law ‘each of the fifty states could establish the qualifications of its delegates to the various party conventions without regard to party policy, an obviously intolerable result.’ Such a regime could seriously undercut or indeed destroy the effectiveness of the National Party Convention as a concerted enterprise engaged in the vital process of choosing Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates— a process which usually involves coalitions cutting across state lines. [Internal references omitted.][2]   ”
[5]
Six years later in Democratic Party of U.S. v. Wisconsin ex rel. La Follette, the court ruled a Wisconsin state law did not supersede the rules established by the Democratic Party in the matter of choosing which delegate to admit to its national convention. Writing for the majority, Justice Potter Stewart stated, “This First Amendment freedom to gather in association for the purpose of advancing shared beliefs is protected by the Fourteenth Amendment from infringement by any State.”[6]

I seem to recall that this was well known before the 70's.  We were taught in school that even though a delegate was "bound" by the state that they could vote their conscience.  (of course that is relying on a very old memory!!)






Offline austingirl

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The US Constitution says absolutely zero, not a single syllable of even one word, about how candidates for President are chosen.

Political parties are private organizations and under no legal obligation to choose candidates on the basis of the popular vote.  Rejecting the popular vote might be unwise and destructive to a party, but it would be fully legal and constitutional.

Several people have been trying to get this point across to no avail. :shrug:
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline Texas Yellow Rose

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