Monckton: It’s Time For ‘Texit’ — Texas Should Secede, Thatcher Advisor Says

[Cowboyway]

Whatever.  But if you would like to pick a couple of the inaccuracies  I called you on and compare evidence then let me know.  I'd be glad to have a go at it.

Lookit, non-sequitur, if you insist on continuing the War of Southern Independence debate, start your own thread where you can keep repeating the yankee revisionism, fiction and mythology.

This thread is about Texas seceding from the Obama (and possibly Clinton) tyrannical federal government, not Lincoln's.

Or, better yet, why don't your write your own book and post a link.  My title suggestion would be: Flights of Fantasy, Historical Revisionism, Fiction and Outright Lies From A Bitter Clinging Yankee by Non-Sequitur.

[goatprairie]

Same as that portion of the population that enjoyed freedom in the North where they also kept men in bondage for their profit.   Just not as many.   



This is what you are failing to grasp.   The North was just as evil,  just as despicable,   and even more so,  because they were going to continue slavery if they had won quickly.   That profit money was just too desirable to them. 


You can't get credit for a moral accomplishment when "freeing the slaves"   was not a goal of the war until nearly two years into it.   

And even then it wasn't because they cared about the slaves,   it was because they wanted revenge against the South for having fought them so hard. 


As late as November 1864,   William Tecumseh Sherman, speaking to Southern Townfolk said: 




 
A rare admission of the Truth.   Stop fighting us and send us that Slave profit money,   and we will let you alone.   Try to be Independent,   and we will destroy everything.   


Now that is true Despotic evil.

So after the war, the North being complete hypocrites about slavery, reinstituted it?

[austingirl]

It would be great if this thread could address the issue of Texas Secession in 2016. There are more reasons every day why Texas should declare its independence from the corrupt and overreaching National Government.

[Cowboyway]

So after the war, the North being complete hypocrites about slavery, reinstituted it?

No, they had bigger fish to fry: exterminating or restricting the indigenous people of the west to reservations.

[Cowboyway]

It would be great if this thread could address the issue of Texas Secession in 2016. There are more reasons every day why Texas should declare its independence from the corrupt and overreaching National Government.

Especially after yesterdays travesty to let Hilderbeast off the hook.

[Sanguine]

It would be great if this thread could address the issue of Texas Secession in 2016. There are more reasons every day why Texas should declare its independence from the corrupt and overreaching National Government.

Yes, this thread has become repetitively off track.  No new information being exchanged; just insults and SOS.

I'll ask the mods to consider closing it down.

[austingirl]

Especially after yesterdays travesty to let Hilderbeast off the hook.

I am heartsick over what has happened to our formerly Constitutional Republic. The rule of law only applies to the little people, the ones that work and pay for the corrupt National government. The blatant disregard for the law by our highest "public servants" is on full display. Time to secede while there is something left to salvage in our fine State.

[don-o]

Yes, this thread has become repetitively off track.  No new information being exchanged; just insults and SOS.

I'll ask the mods to consider closing it down.

Getting threads back on topic after they have wandered far afield seldom succeeds.

[Mod1]

Locking the thread.  It has become tiresome. 

Left to the discretion of Owners to re-open.

[Bigun]

Tiresome or not this thread is serving a VERY useful purpose IMHO and I thank you for unlocking it!

[Sanguine]

Tiresome or not this thread is serving a VERY useful purpose IMHO and I thank you for unlocking it!

OK, Bigun, I'm slow.  What purpose is it serving?  (Other than aggravation!)

[Bigun]

OK, Bigun, I'm slow.  What purpose is it serving?  (Other than aggravation!)

IMHO it is educating people who desperately need to be educated.  Your opinion obviously differs but I applaud your willingness to allow it to continue. 

[Sanguine]

IMHO it is educating people who desperately need to be educated.  Your opinion obviously differs but I applaud your willingness to allow it to continue. 

My reason for not wanting it to continue is that this is about Texas seceding NOW.  Bringing the war and slavery into the argument is a classic way to shut down any argument about the rightness, allowability, and possibility of secession. 

If we want to argue old wars, that's fine; I just don't think it should be used to derail this very important and current topic.  We should start another topic.

[Bigun]

My reason for not wanting it to continue is that this is about Texas seceding NOW.  Bringing the war and slavery into the argument is a classic way to shut down any argument about the rightness, allowability, and possibility of secession. 

If we want to argue old wars, that's fine; I just don't think it should be used to derail this very important and current topic.  We should start another topic.

EXACTLY right! And the moment you let it be known that you will shut down a thread if  it can be dragged off topic is the moment any useful dialog ceases. Again just my humble opinion.

[Sanguine]

EXACTLY right! And the moment you let it be known that you will shut down a thread if  it can be dragged off topic is the moment any useful dialog ceases. Again just my humble opinion.

Well, it did go on for 35 pages.

[RedHead]

Lookit, non-sequitur, if you insist on continuing the War of Southern Independence debate, start your own thread where you can keep repeating the yankee revisionism, fiction and mythology.

But you made your false claims concerning the War of Southern Rebellion on this thread here.  Why not continue it?

This thread is about Texas seceding from the Obama (and possibly Clinton) tyrannical federal government, not Lincoln's.

So what did your reply #803 have to do with either of those?

Or, better yet, why don't your write your own book and post a link.  My title suggestion would be: Flights of Fantasy, Historical Revisionism, Fiction and Outright Lies From A Bitter Clinging Yankee by Non-Sequitur.

You made a start on flights of fancy in your reply #803 so perhaps you should write the book?

[Sanguine]

@Bigun, if you wondered why I wouldn't want this re-opened, see evidence #1 right before this post. 

[RedHead]

Same as that portion of the population that enjoyed freedom in the North where they also kept men in bondage for their profit.   Just not as many.   

The North did not start a war to defend their ability to keep people in bondage.  The South did.

You can't get credit for a moral accomplishment when "freeing the slaves"   was not a goal of the war until nearly two years into it.   

I never suggested that it was.

And even then it wasn't because they cared about the slaves,   it was because they wanted revenge against the South for having fought them so hard. 

It was because the South started the war, so their only option was to fight or surrender.

A rare admission of the Truth.   Stop fighting us and send us that Slave profit money,   and we will let you alone.   Try to be Independent,   and we will destroy everything. 

You forget that Sherman was speaking of the past.  In 1864 the Emancipation Proclamation had been issued so he was right, all the powers on Earth couldn't restore their slaves.

But Sherman also pointed out, "War is the remedy our enemy's have chosen. They dared us to war, and you remember how tauntingly they defied us to the contest. We have accepted the issue and it must be fought out. You might as well reason with a thunderstorm. I say let us give them all they want; not a word of argument, not a sign of let up, no cave in till we are whipped or they are."

Well, the Union wasn't whipped.

[Bigun]

@Bigun, if you wondered why I wouldn't want this re-opened, see evidence #1 right before this post.

I saw it before and I see it now but I personally don't think one or two jerks should be able to take down a thread in that fashion.

[Sanguine]

If I'd been smart, I would have started the thread in the Texas category.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

OK, Bigun, I'm slow.  What purpose is it serving?  (Other than aggravation!)

I believe it proves that it does no good in placing irrefutable facts in the face of some that are incapable of persuasion.  Might as well place the sordid facts about Mohammad in front of a Jihadist. Both will ignore as they have preconceived, irresolute positions that cannot be changed.

Those identified, for instance in this thread, have been relegated to my ignore list.

[Bigun]

I believe it proves that it does no good in placing irrefutable facts in the face of some that are incapable of persuasion.  Might as well place the sordid facts about Mohammad in front of a Jihadist. Both will ignore as they have preconceived, irresolute positions that cannot be changed.

Those identified, for instance in this thread, have been relegated to my ignore list.

But it will all be read by many who never say a word on this thread.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

But it will all be read by many who never say a word on this thread.

And so one must be mature enough to observe and react accordingly.  That is the freedom we all have and the discernment which I believe this whole site's purpose is ostensibly intended to convey.

[RetBobbyMI]

But it will all be read by many who never say a word on this thread.

I'm with @Sanguine. If I wanted to read about old civil war recreation, I could go elsewhere. I came to this thread to talk/read about Texas Indepence part II. Although I reside elsewhere, I grew up in Texas and still have immediate family there. I might even move back some day when I regain the value and equity of my house.  So I for staying on topic. 

[goatprairie]

I'm with @Sanguine. If I wanted to read about old civil war recreation, I could go elsewhere. I came to this thread to talk/read about Texas Indepence part II. Although I reside elsewhere, I grew up in Texas and still have immediate family there. I might even move back some day when I regain the value and equity of my house.  So I for staying on topic.

That's fine...let's stay on topic. Does Texas, or any state, have the right to secede? I believe the question was settled in 1865.
What is both amusing and irritating is the complete disregard the secess advocates have for the past and its implications and their complete misreading of the constitution (specifically the 10th amendment) and the lack of support for secession at will by any of the Founders.
Why they choose to advocate for secession and not rebellion (which would include people from all the states) is not given.
The secess people bring up Britain leaving the EU neglecting to mention that Britain is an independent country. Texas is a state of the Union and not a separate country.
 When I go to another country I don't list or say my country is Wisconsin. The U.S.A. is my country and that is the entity I give my allegiance to.