Author Topic: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?  (Read 943 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« on: June 07, 2016, 02:25:48 pm »
https://newrepublic.com/article/134013/isnt-trump-using-law-back-mouth?utm_content=buffer74d6b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?

He claims Judge Gonzalo Curiel's Mexican heritage is a conflict of interest, but his lawyers haven't filed a legal motion about it—for good reason.

BY STEVEN LUBET AND CHARLES GARDNER GEYH

June 6, 2016

Donald Trump has repeatedly argued that Judge Gonzalo Curiel has been unfair to him in the Trump University lawsuit and should recuse himself from the case. The presumptive Republican presidential nominee claims that Curiel’s Mexican heritage and his membership in the San Diego La Raza Lawyers Association creates an “inherent conflict of interest” because, as Trump put it in an interview with CNN, “I am building a wall.” But even Trump’s own lawyers appear to know better.

Trump has a simple remedy for this alleged conflict of interest, but he has not invoked it. He could direct his attorneys to file a disqualification motion pursuant to the United States Judiciary Code, on the ground that Curiel’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” Given how strongly Trump feels about the situation—he has even called for an investigation of Curiel—why haven’t his lawyers already taken the necessary steps to disqualify the judge?

The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure require lawyers to certify that their motions are “warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law.” The “existing law” could not be more clear that a judge’s background provides no legal basis for seeking disqualification. There is a long line of precedents applying this principle to African-American, Jewish, female, Catholic, Mormon, and gay judges. Any lawyer who brought a motion on similarly spurious grounds—or who tried to argue for changing the law to allow ethnicity-based disqualification—would be subject to sanctions including monetary penalties, censure, and even referral to the disciplinary authorities.

If Curiel, who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants, betrayed a racially motivated bias in his comments from the bench or in written orders, it would be a different story. But the most Trump has offered on that score is that Curiel has issued rulings that denied Trump’s motions to dismiss the case—hardly the appearance of bias that the law demands.


Trump’s lead counsel in the case is Daniel Petrocelli, who is the chair of the Trial Practice Committee at the megafirm O’Melveny and Myers, which is headquartered in Los Angeles and has 800 lawyers in offices around the world. Petrocelli is one of the most highly regarded trial lawyers in the United States, with an outstanding reputation for both ability and integrity. It is all but unimaginable that he would risk his reputation—and his firm’s—by bringing such a patently frivolous motion.

Could Trump order Petrocelli to move for Curiel’s disqualification? After all, Trump is a valuable fee-paying client, and lawyers are generally required to follow their client’s instructions. There is an exception, however, when clients make unreasonable demands. Under the California Rules of Professional Conduct, a lawyer may not “seek, accept, or continue employment” where the client’s objective is to “present a claim in litigation that is not warranted under existing law, unless it can be supported by a good faith argument for extension, modification, or reversal of such existing law.”

In other words, Petrocelli would have to withdraw as counsel if Trump were to insist on asserting his charges against Curiel in court rather than on television.

Because of attorney-client confidentiality, we have no way of knowing whether Trump and his lawyers have discussed the possibility of bringing a disqualification motion in the case. But we can be all but certain that Daniel Petrocelli would refuse if asked. That would leave Trump with only two choices. He could continue to suffer the public embarrassment of accepting a judge whose impartiality he has challenged, or he could fire his lawyers and hire new ones.

Steven Lubet is the Williams Memorial Professor of Law at Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law.
Charles Gardner Geyh is the John F. Kimberling Professor of Law, Indiana University, Bloomington.
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Offline austingirl

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 03:05:28 pm »
Petrocelli needs to tell Lyin' Don that he is fired as a client.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline verga

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 03:47:23 pm »
There is a legal adage: When the law is on your side argue the law, when the facts are on your side argue the facts, When neither the law or the facts are on your side, pound the table. All tRump does is pound the table.. someone need to tell him to pound sand down a rat hole.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 03:50:21 pm »
I have yet to hear T-Rump give one single mention to Friday's abysmal jobs report.  Instead, he picks THIS issue to go the hill on.  Further evidence that, despite squeals from Trumpettes to the contrary, T-Rump's primary, secondary and tertiary focus is himself.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 03:50:52 pm by ScottinVA »

Offline RedHead

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 04:03:09 pm »
Because he doesn't have any legal grounds for a motion to have the judge removed.  Hate and paranoia aren't sufficient.

Oceander

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 04:10:40 pm »
I very seriously doubt there would be any ethical repercussions if a motion to recuse were filed.  The lawyers haven't filed it because they know it would get quickly denied and that the denial would be upheld on appeal because the judge is not biased; why waste resources when you know you'll lose.  And they have almost certainly communicated this to Trump.  In other words, Trump knows the judge is not biased so he's just engaging in racial rabble rousing, without regard to the fact that it's making him more and more unpopular. 

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 05:37:57 pm »
There is a legal adage: When the law is on your side argue the law, when the facts are on your side argue the facts, When neither the law or the facts are on your side, pound the table. All tRump does is pound the table.. someone need to tell him to pound sand down a rat hole.

Trump is all talk, all (stupid Trump) hat, no cattle.  He 'says' what he thinks he needs to say at any given moment in time for ""effect"".  That trait is probably the last (or next to last) trait that America needs in a leader right now.  Like any typical liberal, he bleats to hear the sound of his own bleating.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 05:39:29 pm »
I very seriously doubt there would be any ethical repercussions if a motion to recuse were filed.  The lawyers haven't filed it because they know it would get quickly denied and that the denial would be upheld on appeal because the judge is not biased; why waste resources when you know you'll lose.  And they have almost certainly communicated this to Trump.  In other words, Trump knows the judge is not biased so he's just engaging in racial rabble rousing, without regard to the fact that it's making him more and more unpopular.

Uh....what makes you think.... that Trump is unaware of the fact that his own words are making him more and more unpopular?
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Oceander

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 05:47:05 pm »
Uh....what makes you think.... that Trump is unaware of the fact that his own words are making him more and more unpopular?

I give him the benefit of the doubt, for funsies. 

Offline r9etb

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 06:38:29 pm »
Uh....what makes you think.... that Trump is unaware of the fact that his own words are making him more and more unpopular?

Two reasons:

1) Trump's a narcissist who both loves the idea of saying unpopular things, and is absolutely sure that everybody loves him; and

2) Trump is a narcissist who maintains a small inner circle that feeds his self-regard: he lives in an echo chamber.

Offline ABX

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2016, 06:44:35 pm »
Quote
Trump has a simple remedy for this alleged conflict of interest, but he has not invoked it......

Because the end goal is not to eliminate the supposed conflict of interest or create a 'fair trial'. The goal is to create a story-line among supporters that he is being bullied and targeted. They have to feel like they are the victim so they will have something to fight against. If a solution is offered, the story goes away.

None of this is about reality, it is about writing the script. He is creating the enemy and personifying it for his followers. Sound familiar? Every supposed hero needs a foil.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 06:47:11 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline kidd

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2016, 07:00:00 pm »
Quote
Trump claims Judge Gonzalo Curiel's Mexican heritage is a conflict of interest, but his lawyers haven't filed a legal motion about it—for good reason.

When did he do this before? :huh?:

oh yeah:
Trump claimed ex-candidate Ted Cruz's Canadian birth was a conflict of interest,  but his lawyers didn't file a legal motion about it—for good reason.


Offline verga

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2016, 12:07:04 pm »
Uh....what makes you think.... that Trump is unaware of the fact that his own words are making him more and more unpopular?
His unstated original goal is to get Shrillary in the White hut
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2016, 12:23:10 pm »
Some facts you all should know from looking at the other posts:

1. Trump has won the case from a legal standpoint. The Lead Plaintiff and filer of the case destroyed all claims for it and was withdrawn. The other two Prosecution witnesses also destroyed this case. There is now no name vs Trump on the pleadings. So he has to do nothing. The judge cannot do anything but dismiss the case. The La Raza Judge has not because hes Clan with a Tan for Hillary. The #neverTrump lawyer should know that without a Named Plaintiff party filing a motion does nothing since the opposing party has to be able to oppose the motion before the Judge can rule on it. Guess hes never done a trial.
2. The longer tis goes on and the MORE Violence the Mexican nationals and Muslims do going forward, and they will, the more it helps Trump as this is one of his platforms to oppose this invasion/destruction of America.
3. It draws out the dumb ones and ones who side with the attackers.


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Offline Nickname

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2016, 12:29:24 pm »
Trump isn't a thinking man.

He shoots from the hip, saying what he thinks will benefit himself the most at any particular moment, then moves on to the next shiny object, leaving behind a mess for his lawyers and surrogates to clean up.

Offline RedHead

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2016, 12:47:28 pm »
Some facts you all should know from looking at the other posts:

1. Trump has won the case from a legal standpoint. The Lead Plaintiff and filer of the case destroyed all claims for it and was withdrawn. The other two Prosecution witnesses also destroyed this case. There is now no name vs Trump on the pleadings. So he has to do nothing. The judge cannot do anything but dismiss the case. The La Raza Judge has not because hes Clan with a Tan for Hillary. The #neverTrump lawyer should know that without a Named Plaintiff party filing a motion does nothing since the opposing party has to be able to oppose the motion before the Judge can rule on it. Guess hes never done a trial.

Three plaintiffs have dropped out.  Three more are still part of the case.  There is no reason why the judge should dismiss since there are still people suing.  There are also two separate suits.


2. The longer tis goes on and the MORE Violence the Mexican nationals and Muslims do going forward, and they will, the more it helps Trump as this is one of his platforms to oppose this invasion/destruction of America.

And the more Trump shows himself to be the bigoted SOB that he is.  Don't forget that part.

3. It draws out the dumb ones and ones who side with the attackers.

It does draw out some dumb ones, I'll give you that.

Offline RedHead

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 12:52:08 pm »
Some facts you all should know from looking at the other posts:

1. Trump has won the case from a legal standpoint. The Lead Plaintiff and filer of the case destroyed all claims for it and was withdrawn. The other two Prosecution witnesses also destroyed this case. There is now no name vs Trump on the pleadings. So he has to do nothing. The judge cannot do anything but dismiss the case. The La Raza Judge has not because hes Clan with a Tan for Hillary. The #neverTrump lawyer should know that without a Named Plaintiff party filing a motion does nothing since the opposing party has to be able to oppose the motion before the Judge can rule on it. Guess hes never done a trial.
2. The longer tis goes on and the MORE Violence the Mexican nationals and Muslims do going forward, and they will, the more it helps Trump as this is one of his platforms to oppose this invasion/destruction of America.
3. It draws out the dumb ones and ones who side with the attackers.

And while we're on the subject, why can't Trump produce a single lawyer or a single legal scholar saying that he, and you, are right and that the case must be dismissed?  Or that a summary judgement is called for?  Can you answer that for us?

Offline don-o

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2016, 01:34:58 pm »
There is a legal adage: When the law is on your side argue the law, when the facts are on your side argue the facts, When neither the law or the facts are on your side, pound the table. All tRump does is pound the table.. someone need to tell him to pound sand down a rat hole.

Got the image....


Oceander

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2016, 01:44:30 pm »
Some facts you all should know from looking at the other posts:

1. Trump has won the case from a legal standpoint. The Lead Plaintiff and filer of the case destroyed all claims for it and was withdrawn. The other two Prosecution witnesses also destroyed this case. There is now no name vs Trump on the pleadings. So he has to do nothing. The judge cannot do anything but dismiss the case. The La Raza Judge has not because hes Clan with a Tan for Hillary. The #neverTrump lawyer should know that without a Named Plaintiff party filing a motion does nothing since the opposing party has to be able to oppose the motion before the Judge can rule on it. Guess hes never done a trial.
2. The longer tis goes on and the MORE Violence the Mexican nationals and Muslims do going forward, and they will, the more it helps Trump as this is one of his platforms to oppose this invasion/destruction of America.
3. It draws out the dumb ones and ones who side with the attackers.




Some facts for you:  the case of Makaeff v. Trump University was renamed Low v. Trump University after the judge permitted Makaeff to withdraw.  The case was certified as a class action, which means there are plenty of potential lead plaintiffs; apparently one stepped up to the plate.  Sonny Low is now the lead plaintiff. It is still case no. 3:13-cv-02519.  It is still very much a live case. 

The other case, Cohen v. Trump, is also still ongoing and was also certified as a class action. 

Didn't take more than a quick check on Wikipedia, followed by a quick check on the sources cited, to get this information.  How come you weren't able to find it?

Offline BuckeyeTexan

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2016, 02:11:05 pm »
Quote
Trump has a simple remedy for this alleged conflict of interest, but he has not invoked it. He could direct his attorneys to file a disqualification motion pursuant to the United States Judiciary Code, on the ground that Curiel’s “impartiality might reasonably be questioned.”

Trump has said that Curiel should recuse himself, which tells me that Trump and his lawyers know that a Defense Motion to Recuse would fail.
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Offline BuckeyeTexan

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2016, 02:17:27 pm »
@AbaraXas

Because the end goal is not to eliminate the supposed conflict of interest or create a 'fair trial'.

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2016, 02:19:09 pm »
The press had a field day with this; yes, the criticism of why not allow lawyers to file court actions is valid but the public may not know what the press is cooking up.

Offline Henry Noel

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2016, 02:27:04 pm »
Because he doesn't have any legal grounds for a motion to have the judge removed.  Hate and paranoia aren't sufficient.

I don't think he wants the judge to be removed. The only thing worse for him than having a partial judge would be to have an impartial one.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 02:27:20 pm by Henry Noel »
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Why Isn’t Trump Using the Law to Back Up His Mouth?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 10:25:13 pm »
Some facts for you:  the case of Makaeff v. Trump University was renamed Low v. Trump University after the judge permitted Makaeff to withdraw.  The case was certified as a class action, which means there are plenty of potential lead plaintiffs; apparently one stepped up to the plate.  Sonny Low is now the lead plaintiff. It is still case no. 3:13-cv-02519.  It is still very much a live case. 

The other case, Cohen v. Trump, is also still ongoing and was also certified as a class action. 

Didn't take more than a quick check on Wikipedia, followed by a quick check on the sources cited, to get this information.  How come you weren't able to find it?
You know this a political show trial same as they do to any GOP now. The reason the lead was removed is the same for all of them. they made and signed statements directly opposite of the plaintiffs case. This lead will also crash and burn, but then this is not a legit case and you know that. Why is it its democrats and Hillary donors prosecuting it?
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Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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