Author Topic: ‘His beliefs are total opposite': Republican tries to block nominee from office because he is a Muslim  (Read 2510 times)

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Offline montanajoe

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All men are created equal with certain inalienable rights.....

That founding principal seems to have been missed by many on the right and left.

There is another oldie but goodie "judge Not...."
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:07:44 am by montanajoe »

Offline kevindavis007

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All men are created equal with certain inalienable rights.....

That founding prIncipal seems to have been missed by many on the right and left.

There is another oldie buut goodie "judge Not...."


Also a certain clause in the Constitution states that their shouldn't be any religious test also the Freedom of Religion means ALL RELIGIONS including Islam.
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Offline Fishrrman

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‘His beliefs are total opposite': Republican tries to block nominee from office because he is a Muslim...

I'm in absolute, total, 100% agreement.
This guy said it plain, and he said it right.

“Islam and Christianity do not mix,” Gordon said. Party chairman Paul Simpson said that Gordon serves as chaplain for the Harris County Republican Party and is a part-time pastor at a Houston-area church.

Do I have to repeat myself once more?

“During my prayer, this man did not bow his head. During the pledge of allegiance, he did not utter a word. He didn’t even try to fake it and move his lips,” Gordon said at the meeting, where attendees said nearly 200 people were present. “If you believe that a person can practice Islam and agree to the foundational principles of the Republican Party, it’s not right. It’s not true. It can’t happen. There are things on our platform that he and his beliefs are total opposite.”

I'll conclude this post with a quote (I often post) from Orwell:
"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

Bravo, Mr. Harris, thank you for speaking the truth!

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Ali, a Houston resident, said he sees Republican values as deeply consistent with Muslim values. Both the party and the religion value preserving life, helping the needy and treating all people equally, he said.

That's some good old fashioned Republican taqqiya right there.

Preserving life through beheading or stoning or placing people in acid baths. Treating women like dogs and making them wear bags and denying them an education.

We do have to follow the Constitution and it does say no religious test.  I understand people's concern for the Sharia creep.  Our Constitution should also keep us safe from Sharia Law.  Freedom of religion.  But there is signs of Islam creeping into our schools textbooks.  We have to be diligent to make sure that the same Constitution that gives Muslims every freedom also protects us from Islam.  Because the pastor is right in some respect.  Islam in the ME is a governing system and isn't compatible with our Constitution and laws.  It is the law of the land and as was quoted above Islam is brutal.  If you find any country where the law is Islamic there will be acid baths, cutting off of hands, beheading, honor killings, stoning..........etc.  Not compatible and if we want to be truthful and not PC we have to realize that people from those countries migrate.  Maybe that particular Muslim has no Islamic agenda but there will be ones that do.  They will run for office and I think it is only natural that they will try and follow what they know.  Islam is conversion by force.
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Offline Neverdul

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Many years ago, in the early 90’s, my husband and I were desperately looking for another townhouse to rent. The reason we were in a hurry was that our previous landlord David decided he was going to sell the townhouse we’d been renting for the last six years and gave us only 30 days to get out.  And the way we first learned about it was coming home from work one evening to find the for sale sign in the front yard. 

According to our lease, we were supposed to have 120 days’ notice and the opportunity to purchase it ourselves before it being listed. In six years, we’d never been late with the rent (maybe once for all of 3 days) and had been good tenants, but we didn’t fight him, it wasn’t worth it. He wasn’t that great of a landlord anyway, often not returning our calls the few times we had maintenance issues and we just ended up fixing it ourselves at our cost. It was also complicated by the fact I was friends with his “live in” girlfriend’s sister. FWIW, not that it matters but just as a point of interest and perhaps germane to the discussion, the landlord was a good born again Christian, or so he was always never failed to tell us. He liked to “Praise the Lord” a lot and on more than occasion asked us if we were “Saved” and what church we attended.

I will also say that one of the worst jobs I had was as an office manager for a small boutique law firm and the senior partner was ‘born again” and very much into the “prosperity gospel”, never failing to remind us who worked for him, what it meant to be a “True Christian”, what books we should be reading like by Joel Osteen, but was, FWIW one of the nastiest SOB’s I’d ever had the displeasure of working for. That might have been because he was a lawyer more than so than because he was supposedly a Christian, but his junior partner was Jewish and he was a very nice guy and great to work with. But I left after 6 months.

One of the final of many straws was when there was a major snow storm and he called me at home at 3 AM to tell me that I had to make calls, as many as I needed to make in order to get the parking lot plowed and then to call all the other employees to tell them that they were expected to get to work and on time, that he didn’t care about road conditions or about school closures.  He then finally showed up at the office at 2 PM and then left after about 10 minutes after grilling me on who got in on time and who didn’t and then saying in front of everyone that he was going sledding with his daughters because “spending time with family is important to me”.  I remember one of the paralegals saying, after he left, something like “Great, I guess that means me and my kids are sh!t”.

Anyway, we were having trouble finding another house or townhouse to rent because we had a dog and also finding one that was nice, in a decent neighborhood and in our price range. One day I called an ad and spoke with a fellow named Mahmood. My husband and I met Mahmood to look at the place and it was nice, in good shape, with a finished walkout basement and fenced back yard and a community pool and the rent was even a bit less than what we’d been paying, and he had no problem with us having a dog.
Mahmood was, as we learned, born in the US and worked in IT, he was a fairly young guy and had started buying and renting properties and also buying and flipping houses with his older brother as an investment for their future. He and his brother hoped to one day open their own IT consulting firm.

We decided to take it.  After running a credit check, he called us a day later and said we could move in anytime as soon as we’d signed the lease.  He lived way on the other side of town and suggested we meet him at his parent’s house which wasn’t far from the townhouse or from where we lived and worked and closer to his work, was just more convenient for all of us.

His parent’s home was nice, somewhat above an average size suburban home, on the large side but certainly not a “McMansion”, and very tastefully decorated. And as I recall his mother was quite attractive for her age (and dressed in western clothing, no head scarf) and I remember she kept offering to feed us snacks, cookies or make us tea, asking us to stay for dinner, a lamb dish she was cooking that smelled delicious and I was sorry we didn’t stay (my husband hated lamb but I love it). We also briefly met his father who was also very nice, very distinguished looking although a bit more reserved.  His younger sister who still lived at home came downstairs and introduced herself as she was leaving for a date – again, like her mother, she dressed in western clothing and hair style and with some jewelry, rather modestly and very tastefully but very stylishly.

As we were sitting in the living room waiting for Mahmood who hadn’t gotten there yet, I noticed some wall hangings - tapestries that appeared to me to be “Islamic”/Persian in design and the beautiful Persian rugs; and I didn’t see anything that would lead me to believe they were Christians, no crosses or Christian symbols, but then my husband and I noticed some portraits and photographs hanging on the one wall.

Along with the typical family portraits, one was a large portrait of Ronald Regan, next to it was a portrait of the Shaw of Iran, another was a photograph of the father with Oliver North and another of the father standing next to Ronald Regan along with some other men who I didn’t recognize. I would have loved to known the story behind those photographs but thought it might be impolite to ask.

Anyway, Mahmood was a good landlord – onetime when the furnace broke down over the long Thanksgiving weekend, my husband called him but told him that he could fix it himself, that it was a simple inexpensive part replacement. Mahmood agreed but said, “you will deduct the cost of the part and for your labor time, at whatever rate you think is reasonable, from next month’s rent”.  My husband only deducted the cost of the part.

About 2 ½ years into our lease, we found a house that we really wanted to buy.  Before putting in our offer my husband called Mahmood to see what our options were for getting out of our lease early if our offer went through.  And he could not have been nicer about it – “just give me 30 days’ notice if you can” (officially our lease said 3 months’ notice). He also said that he really hated losing us as tenants but wished us luck.  On the day we settled and walked into our new house for the first time, there was a beautiful flower arrangement sitting on the porch.  It was from Mahmood and also included a check for our security deposit and a $50 Home Depot gift card and a very nice note congratulating us on our new home and wishing us much happiness.

I will also say that I was working in the finance department at a pharmaceutical company in Baltimore on 9/11. At the time we had a young woman working in our department, a recent accounting grad who I was training to be my payroll backup and sort of supervising and mentoring. She was also born here in the US and her family was also Iranian, they fled as she told me, shortly before the Revolution. 

And I knew, while she didn’t seem particularly religious and also dressed in western attire, very typical for any 20 something American and I knew what bands she liked because we shared similar tastes in music, that she was Muslim because when her mother died after a short battle with breast cancer, I went to the memorial service at the Mosque her family belonged to.


And no, I did not feel at all uncomfortable there. Didn’t hear any Allah Akbar or chants of Death to America. I did cover my head with a simple scarf out of respect, but that was really no different from when, as not a practicing Catholic or of a religious persuasion myself, I covered my head with a chapel veil for my mother’s funeral mass at my parent’s Traditionalist Catholic church or when I attended a former boss’s mother’s memorial service at an orthodox Synagogue and my husband and I sat on different sides of the aisle. IIRC, my husband was asked to put on a yarmulke which he did, again, out of respect.

Anyway Mani and I were sitting at my desk watching the live streaming as best we could on my computer when the 2nd Tower fell.  Mani started sobbing uncontrollably and saying “Why? Why? This is so awful. Why would those people do this to us?” I was sobbing too and we hugged each other, held each other tight and crying together. I told to her to go home and be with her family.  As she was leaving she stopped by the desk of another co-worker who was waiting to hear from her husband as her mother in law worked at the Pentagon and hadn’t been heard from yet. I heard Mani tell her, “I will pray, I will pray very hard that your mother in law is safe, that you will hear good news”. Then Mani hugged her.

Over the years I’ve worked with or had business dealings or personal relationships with Muslims, and with Jews (reformed and orthodox and one gal who was Hassidic), Christians of many different denominations (including Mormons and Jo-Ho’s), Hindus, Buddhists and atheists. Heck I even worked for a time with a gal who was a Wiccan.  She was a bit weird in some ways but surprisingly she had some rather conservative/libertarian political views and I was taken back when she told me she was a registered Republican and was “pro-life”.  Who would have thunk.

Some of these folks were OK some, some not so much but I can’t say that their religion was the deciding factor.

I do not deny that radicalized Muslims are not a very real and present danger. To deny that would be stupid and naïve.  Certainly we have to be more aware and vette who comes into the country, FWIW no matter their religion and do more to monitor extremists.

But on the other hand I do wonder sometimes why “some” Muslims, especially those born here and who have grown up “westernized” end up becoming radicals?

What if my husband and I had told Mahmood that we would not rent from a dirty Muslim or if I had told Mani on 9/11 that this was the fault of “her people” and her religion and instead of crying with her and hugging her, I blamed her.  And what if I judged all “born again” Christians by the actions of a few like our former landlord David or the POS lawyer I once worked for?
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Offline markomalley

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@Neverdul

Nice post. I've had similar experiences throughout my life.

I lived in Turkey for several years and, for the vast majority of cases, had similar experiences dealing with the population there (vast, vast majority Muslim). In fact, up until when the AKP took control of the government, my wife and I were very seriously thinking about buying a house there and retiring when it came time to do so.

We have met our versions of your landlord, Mahmood, In fact, we still, to this day, have several (Muslim) friends with whom we stay in regular contact...even though it's been more than 20 years since we lived there.

But there are some observations that I would share with you, based upon my experiences:

- When Mustafa Kemal Ataturk founded the Turkish Republic (out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire), he took many actions to severely restrict the influence of Islam upon society. Some of those examples include banning women from wearing Hijabs, replacing Arabic script with Latin script, and even removing Arabic words from the official Turkish lexicon (he went so far as to hire linguists to accomplish this). He created a bureaucracy, the Ministry of Religious Affairs, primarily to keep an eye on Mosques so that they wouldn't start preaching radicalism. Something to consider.

- Where we lived was in a very westernized part of Turkey (Ankara, the capital city). I've also spent a significant amount of time living in Istanbul. All of our Turkish friends were very wary of people from "the East." They, even back in those days, recognized the danger of less educated, more "religious" people. Many of whom were flooding the cities like Ankara, Istanbul, and Izmir. And now that these uneducated types of managed to overwhelm major Turkish cities, the government has managed to flip from secular to Islamist. Something else to consider.

- If you think about it, your friends Mahmood and Mani were descendants of Persians (not Arabs) and their families decided to flee to the States in the wake of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. That, in of itself, sort of tells me something and it should tell you something. Don't know if you considered that or not. But you should.

I am not stating that all Muslims are bad people, not hardly. Most are fine folks and good neighbors. But at least my experiences teach me that Islam, unless kept in strict check, is very dangerous.

Offline Neverdul

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- If you think about it, your friends Mahmood and Mani were descendants of Persians (not Arabs) and their families decided to flee to the States in the wake of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. That, in of itself, sort of tells me something and it should tell you something. Don't know if you considered that or not. But you should.

I did consider that and should have mentioned that in my post.


I am not stating that all Muslims are bad people, not hardly. Most are fine folks and good neighbors. But at least my experiences teach me that Islam, unless kept in strict check, is very dangerous.

I absolutely agree. Radical Fundamentalist Islam and all it brings is very dangerous and is the antithesis of our Constitutional Republic and culture. That is why I believe that ostracizing all those simply on the basis of being Muslim is wrong.  We should embrace those people like Syed Ali, who while is Muslim is not a radical and encourage him and those like him to speak out against the radicals and set an example for other Muslims of the American ideals.

It also seems that at least in my observations that many of the Iranians who fled prior to the Islamic Revolution were well educated, had embraced a more western way of life and of a more, I don’t know what I’d call it – say more “modernized or “moderate” brand of Islam and hated the religious radicals.  I can also say that of a few professional people I’ve met from Turkey and even a fellow who ran a local restaurant who was originally from Egypt.

My brother until recently lived in New Jersey along the shore and worked part-time doing commercial property insurance inspections. A while back my brother told me he’d done an inspection on a business (I don’t recall what the business was, might have been a beach hotel) but the owner was originally from Jordan (which as a rather complicated political history and in their relations with Israel and the West but FWIW is more stable and democratic than most other countries in the region and still supports the peace treaty with Israel).  This was during the “Arab Spring” uprisings and my brother and the owner got to talking. 

The man was very concerned about the rise of radicalism in the region.  He told my brother he hoped that this would not spread to Jordan. He was concerned for his family and his friends still living in Jordan including his Christian friends.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Wow.  You despise gays and Muslims. 




Wow.   You just keep expressing an astonishing level of ignorance.   


You may not have noticed,   but you aren't going to get a choice to embrace both.   The two groups are like matter and anti-matter,  and whichever one wins,  the other will be destroyed.   


But to understand that requires an adult view of life and history.   


Catholics and Jews OK with you?


Love Catholics and Jews.   I regard Judaism as the foundation of "Monotheism",  and Catholicism as the foundation of "Christianity".   

Both brought about advancements in the condition of humanity and both made people's lives better. 
Both are still beneficial to humanity to this very day. 

What's not to love?   


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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In all due respect Diogenes do you have to sleep with a night light by you bed? 

The aspect of gays and Muslims just control your life. Neither are gonna take over and  make you go gay or bow to Islam.


It is so amusing watching people who measure history by their own teeny tiny lifespan attempt to give advice to someone who has actually studied culture,  demographics and history,   and knows what they are talking about.   


Your view of the horizon is the reach of your arm.   You simply cannot grasp concepts beyond your short range of vision.   


Do you realize how few Muslims are in this country?



Do you realize what is a logistical growth curve?   





Do I have to explain basic science to you as well as history?   



I just drove back from vacation through 6 states and did not see a single mosque tower or  gays having sex by the side of the road.


You just didn't go by the right sides of the road.   Try Dearbornistan for the Mosques,  and try the various parks in San Fransisco for the gays having sex by the side of the road.   





Thought the women Muslims I did see in Falls Church VA at the mall  all looked very Americanized and they were hot-wearing latest American garb   yoga pants and skinny jeans.


Right up until Daddy kills them.   


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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The only thing we have to fear is fear itself..


A Cliche is no answer to a real argument.   You should look at the 20th century death toll,   and then reassess this idea.   Over 150 million people had plenty of reasons to be afraid.   


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Also a certain clause in the Constitution states that their shouldn't be any religious test also the Freedom of Religion means ALL RELIGIONS including Islam.


You do know they acknowledge Jesus at the end of the US Constitution?   You do know they also exempted the President from working on the Christian sabbath.   


People get that "religious"  test thing wrong all the time because they try to interpret words from 1787 by 2016 standards.   They do not grasp the reasoning or intent of the founders because they are too busy listening to what 20th century judges had to say about it.   (and those 20th century judges didn't know what they were talking about.)   


For much of the History of the Colonies,   each colony had an Officially sanctioned state religion.   Thomas Jefferson himself wrote a bill in the Virginia Legislature which was intended to separate the State of Virginia from an official religion,   but in 1787,  several states still had official state religions.   


The "no religious test"  clause was a necessary overture to differing states with differing denominations of Christianity to reassure them that no person from any state would be prevented from holding national office by the usage of a religious (doctrinaire)  test. 

The coalition of states could not possibly hold together if the national government did not recognize the disparity of doctrines in each separate state,   and the remedy was to preclude doctrinaire requirements for office. 


But the general understanding of all parties involved were that the States and the Nation were inherently Christian.   This notion of applying this "no religious tests"   to other religions or even atheism is a thoroughly modern construction,   and of course was not at all what the founders had in mind when they wrote that clause.   


To Demonstrate that this "redefinition"  is a false 20th century artifact,   I will point out what Abraham Lincoln sent out to the troops back in 1862. 





"Christianity"   was pretty much the official position of the US Government all the way until after WWII.   That's when the Roosevelt appointed Kook judges started their meddling. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline NavyCanDo

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Sounds like at least this small corner of the  Republican Party is going down the same path the Democrats did that led to the creation of the KKK. Which was to keep blacks out of the political process.   If we condone keeping Muslims out of the political process are we not doing the same?
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Offline flowers

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Some of you are going to get a really rude awakening one day.  Sharia cannot and will not coexist with you.


Offline mirraflake

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Some of you are going to get a really rude awakening one day.  Sharia cannot and will not coexist with you.

My 92 year old uncle said when he was a young adult just getting into the war everyone thought the japs and krauts was going to take over.

When I was young in the 60's and 70's everyone thought we would be nuked by the commies. My 6th grade Social Studies teacher told us we would not live to be age 30 due to nuclear war. I am now 54.

Now it's the Muslims who are the boogeyman.

40 years for now it will be another threat. Maybe robotic technology via the terminator or we could be like caveman after the mega asteroid hits. We have more to fear from rising China than anything else. Vietnam, Korea, China and Japan all hate each other and saber rattling among those groups.

Muslims are losing more of their group to secularism than what they are gaining as is all religions. though a small amount is becoming more violent.

The population and threats are fluid.

@flowers



« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 06:12:57 pm by mirraflake »

Offline flowers

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My 92 year old uncle said when he was a young adult just getting into the war everyone thought the japs and krauts was going to take over.

When I was young in the 60's and 70's everyone thought we would be nuked by the commies. My 6th grade Social Studies teacher told us we would not live to be age 30 due to nuclear war. I am now 54.

Now it's the Muslims who are the boogeyman.

40 years for now it will be another threat. Maybe robotic technology via the terminator or we could be like caveman after the mega asteroid hits.

Muslims are losing more of their group to secularism than what they are gaining as is all religions. though a small amount is becoming more violent.

The population and threats are fluid.

@flowers

Japan and Germany we fought back that is why they stopped. Soviet Union......Reagan.  Sharia.................letting them in daily in a town near you. Germany, invaded to. Sweden rape capital of the world. Any country that has more than a certain percent of sharia types get taken over.

Quote
Muslims are losing more of their group to secularism than what they are gaining as is all religions. though a small amount is becoming more violent.
  You are absolutely wrong about that. I forget the number of isis in ME now compared to just a few years ago... the number is huge growing day by day.

Shock Poll: 51% of U.S. Muslims Want Sharia; 25% Okay with Violence Against Americans

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/24/shock-poll-51-of-american-muslims-want-sharia-25-okay-with-violence-against-americans/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/new-poll-majority-of-american-muslims-want-sharia-shocking-numbers-on-jihad/

@mirraflake
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 06:21:02 pm by flowers »


Offline mirraflake

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  Sharia.................letting them in daily in a town near you. Germany, invaded to. Sweden rape capital of the world. Any country that has more than a certain percent of sharia types get taken over.

The US is not Germany or Sweden or France. Nearly all the European countries throw Muslims in literal Ghettos not unlike what the Jews were thrown in by Germany and the Muslims have no jobs and no decent prospects so they are ripe for radicaliation by certain Imans.
The Muslims in this country own business and most are employed in high wage jobs and are buying homes and living the American dream.




  You are absolutely wrong about that. I forget the number of isis in ME now compared to just a few years ago... the number is huge growing day by day.

Isis has what 40,000 members- and most of those are in a run after getting wacked by US spes ops. Did you see how many are giving up and saying they want out?  Out of 1.6 billion Muslims.  So it grew from 15,000 to 40,000 The truth is the Muslim faith is losing their young people to secularization in ever increasing numbers





@mirraflake

Offline mirraflake

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