George F. Will: Who Will Follow Trump Off the Cliff?

[libertybele]

Anyone that associates themselves with Trump is committing political suicide.  The article explains why Trump will lose and those associated with him will be seen in the same negative light. It' over for the GOP. I'm hoping we can at least retain the House...and...I could care less about the size of Trump's 'hands'!

Who will follow Trump off the cliff?

..."Parsing Trump sentences is a challenge, but rewarding because it frequently reveals that he actually has said nothing at all. When silence descends, there lingers in the air only gauzy innuendo. What did Trump really say about "the whole thing" of Oswald?

Looking on the bright side — speaking of challenges — Trump's nomination might have two salutary effects: It might counteract "The Cult of the Presidency," as explored in Gene Healy's 2008 book with that title. And it might reacquaint Republicans with the reality principle — the need to assess and adapt to facts.

Healy analyzes the delusion of "redemption through presidential politics." The infantilization of America is apparent in the presidency becoming a semi-sacerdotal office, one that conflates spiritual yearnings and magical thinking about wonders performed by executive power. Trump, with his coarse character and fanciful promises, is an antidote to such superstitions.

Now, regarding realities: In 2012, 93 percent of self-described Republicans who voted did so for Mitt Romney. Trump probably cannot receive 80 percent of what probably will be, because of discouragement and revulsion, a smaller Republican turnout. Romney lost 73 percent of the Hispanic vote; Trump is viewed unfavorably by 82 percent of Hispanics and very unfavorably by 62 percent. Trump probably will receive significantly less than Romney's ruinous 27 percent of this vote. And because of demographic trends and Trump's motivating policies and insults, Hispanic turnout probably will be significantly larger than in 2012, as the white percentage of the electorate continues to shrink. Romney won just 37 percent of young voters (18-29); Trump is unlikely even to match this.

Although Romney won 53 percent of married women, he received just 44 percent of the total female vote. Today, Trump trails Hillary Clinton among women by 19 points (35 percent to 54 percent), and most women probably do not yet know that he testifies to the excellence of his penis. ("My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well-documented, are various other parts of my body.") Or that his idea of masculinity is to boast about conquests of women "often seemingly very happily married." Or that he says "it doesn't really matter what the media write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of ass."

In receiving, so far, the support of 4.7 percent of America's eligible voters, Trump has won a mere plurality of votes in a party approved by only 33 percent of the electorate. This electorate had about 5 percent more Democrats than Republicans even before Trump further tarnished the GOP brand. So, Republicans need to carry independents by more than Romney's five points. Even in states that have voted Republican since 2000, Trump is viewed unfavorably by 62 percent and strongly unfavorably by 52 percent.

His metabolic urge to be scabrous guarantees that Republican candidates everywhere will be badgered by questions about what they think about what he says. What they say will determine how many of them lose with him, and how many deserve to.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-follow-trump-off-cliff-perspec-0509-md-20160507-story.html

[BigHomer]

Anyone that associates themselves with Trump is committing political suicide.  The article explains why Trump will lose and those associated with him will be seen in the same negative light. It' over for the GOP. I'm hoping we can at least retain the House...and...I could care less about the size of Trump's 'hands'!

Who will follow Trump off the cliff?

Trump will be looked back on as the Fritz Mondale of the GOP...landslide loser 

[driftdiver]

Wait, haven't we been told for months that he was the only one who could beat hillary?

[libertybele]

Trump is accomplishing his goal.  He is fracturing an already divided GOP even further and we quite possibly will lose our majority in Congress. He has already given Hillary the keys to the oval office.

[Wingnut]

Who Will Follow Trump Off Cliff?

[240B]

Relax. Breath. Drink a cup of coffee. (decaf)

Trump will not be any more "liberal" than George Bush and his father were, or that Jeb or Romney would have been. The anti-Trump people are behaving like children throwing a tantrum in the supermarket, because Mommy will not give them the toy they want.

I am always amazed by the anti-Trump crowd calling Trump a Liberal after all the absolute "flaming left wing Liberals" (who call themselves Republican) they have nominated and voted for. Why are the hand-picked "Republican left-wing Liberals" acceptable, and yet Trump is not?If Trump is a 'liberal' as they say, that should make the Republican establishment support Trump, not hate him, as they are all Democrat Liberals themselves. At the least, they support the Democrat agenda themselves, that is irrefutable.

And to make things more confusing, every candidate the anti-Trump people have always "crowned" as leader of the Republican party, has lost to the Democrat. If Trump loses the general, how is that any different from Romney or Jeb losing? Republicans are champions of losing. Why is it bad only when Trump loses, and not bad when all their candidates lose? Why not give change a chance? Why not try something different?

All of this over the top hysteria about Trump is both confusing and amusing to me. It may be exactly what the pro-Trump camp wanted all along, to shake things up. And in that case, I thank you all.

[driftdiver]

Relax. Breath. Drink a cup of coffee. (decaf)

Trump will not be any more "liberal" than George Bush and his father were, or that Jeb or Romney would have been. The anti-Trump people are behaving like children throwing a tantrum in the supermarket, because Mommy will not give them the toy they want.

I am always amazed by the anti-Trump crowd calling Trump a Liberal after all the absolute "flaming left wing Liberals" (who call themselves Republican) they have nominated and voted for. Why are the hand-picked "Republican left-wing Liberals" acceptable, and yet Trump is not?If Trump is a 'liberal' as they say, that should make the Republican establishment support Trump, not hate him, as they are all Democrat Liberals themselves. At the least, they support the Democrat agenda themselves, that is irrefutable.

And to make things more confusing, every candidate the anti-Trump people have always "crowned" as leader of the Republican party, has lost to the Democrat. If Trump loses the general, how is that any different from Romney or Jeb losing? Republicans are champions of losing. Why is it bad only when Trump loses, and not bad when all their candidates lose? Why not give change a chance? Why not try something different?

All of this over the top hysteria about Trump is both confusing and amusing to me. It may be exactly what the pro-Trump camp wanted all along, to shake things up. And in that case, I thank you all.

What a wonderfully written response.  So full of half truths and mistaken ideas.   It does a fine job of attempting to marginalize the opposition for their heart felt and accurate positions.

Of course Trump is a liberal.   He's supported liberal positions for decades.  Calling him a conservative is like calling Bloomberg a champion for gun rights.  Bloomberg called himself a Republican too.   

[240B]

What a wonderfully written response.  So full of half truths and mistaken ideas.   It does a fine job of attempting to marginalize the opposition for their heart felt and accurate positions.

Of course Trump is a liberal.   He's supported liberal positions for decades.  Calling him a conservative is like calling Bloomberg a champion for gun rights.  Bloomberg called himself a Republican too.

I agree with you. It is a shame that we did not nominate McCain again, or Romney, or Bush, or Kasich, or Boehner, or Harry Reid, or Pelosi. Then we would have a "real" conservative Republican running for President, instead of a fake conservative like Trump.

The real 'half truths' are that the Republican Party is a conservative organization. It is not. The Republican establishment 'hates' conservatives, and furthermore, they despise their own constituents. 

Calling [the Republican Party] conservative, is like calling Bloomberg a champion for gun rights. Bloomberg called himself a Republican too.     <-- That is my point exactly. Not only did Bloomberg call himself Republican, he fit right in with them. He fit in with the monolithic single party our government has become.

The anti-Trump crowd can cry and scream all they want. Me, myself, I going to back the winner. And the winner against 17-1 odds is Trump. Say what you will about him. He said he was going to win. And he won. That is a reality fact that no one dispute.

And now, ALL THE SAME TALKING HEADS who said that he would NEVER be the nominee, are now all caterwauling that he will never be President. Based on the pundits factual record of accuracy, the wise move would be to bet on Trump.

If a weatherman predicts rain 10 times, and every time he is wrong and there is bright sunshine, it is only human to question whether or not he knows what he is talking about.

[Mechanicos]

 

[truth_seeker]

The  Trump campaign is a new or a different paradigm. It is not traditional Left-Right.

It is America First. It appeals across party lines, and to those that did not vote previously.

The "establishment" conservatives have thrived while losing 5 of the last 6 popular votes for President, which is a shitty track record.

But that establishment, along with their lobbyists, bond lawyers, investment bankers, etc. have fared very well during those failures.

Trump threatenstheir status quo, plain and simple. They are shrieking in disbelief. The say "oh dear, let us run Romney, again."

A few weeks ago, internet "conservatives" were joking about Bush, Romney, Rove ets. Now they are turned around 180 degrees for them.

With the "conservative" establishment, you get four more years of talk about illegal immigration, but no action. Bush-Romney-Rove-Ryan-Kristol, etc.

Paul Ryan was elected by 218 Republican largely career politicians. Trump got millions of votes.

Like everything Ryan is trying to have both sides of the Trump issue. Recall Ryan was the VP candidates that was a huge disappointment, and now he has the audacity to challenge Mr. Trump to have to justify himself.

[sinkspur]

If a weatherman predicts rain 10 times, and every time he is wrong and there is bright sunshine, it is only human to question whether or not he knows what he is talking about.

Polls accurately predicted Trump's wins in all the states he won and losses in all the states he lost.

Now the polls are predicting he will lose to Hillary by at least double digits.    No candidate in a generation has been down this much;  Dole was down 17 points to Bill Clinton in 1996 at this point.  We know what happened there.

So, unless something dramatic happens, it's likely Trump will lose and lose big. 

[sinkspur]

The  Trump campaign is a new or a different paradigm. It is not traditional Left-Right.

It is America First. It appeals across party lines, and to those that did not vote previously.

The "establishment" conservatives have thrived while losing 5 of the last 6 popular votes for President, which is a shitty track record.

But that establishment, along with their lobbyists, bond lawyers, investment bankers, etc. have fared very well during those failures.

Trump threatenstheir status quo, plain and simple. They are shrieking in disbelief. The say "oh dear, let us run Romney, again."

A few weeks ago, internet "conservatives" were joking about Bush, Romney, Rove ets. Now they are turned around 180 degrees for them.

With the "conservative" establishment, you get four more years of talk about illegal immigration, but no action. Bush-Romney-Rove-Ryan-Kristol, etc.

Paul Ryan was elected by 218 Republican largely career politicians. Trump got millions of votes.

Like everything Ryan is trying to have both sides of the Trump issue. Recall Ryan was the VP candidates that was a huge disappointment, and now he has the audacity to challenge Mr. Trump to have to justify himself.

Trump's opponents got MORE votes than Trump's millions.  And Trump is now at 40% of GOP primary voters. That's a plurality.  Ryan is speaking for the majority.  And, I for one, am standing behind him on this.  He should stand firm until Trump promises to not act like a spoiled child in the campaign.

He won't, of course, because he can't.

[geronl]

The  Trump campaign is a new or a different paradigm. It is not traditional Left-Right.

Nothing new under the sun.

Anyone paying attention knows that their slogan means "Trump First, second and only"

The only reason they are attacking Paul Ryan is because he didn't endorse Trump. That is the only qualification that exists to the cult.

[EasyAce]

Donald Trump: “We’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt.”
Washington Post: “How long would that take?”
Trump: “I would say over a period of eight years.”
— March 31

Fortune: “You’ve said you plan to pay off the country’s debt in 10 years. How’s that possible?”
Trump: “No, I didn’t say 10 years.”
— April 19

Speaking on Fox & Friends, of course, Trump revealed something he learned from the
National Enquirer, of course. Although the Kennedy assassination is one of history’s most
minutely studied events, all previous scrutiny missed something the supermarket tabloid
discovered for people like Trump — a connection between Ted Cruz’s father and the murder
of the 35th president. Trump said:

You know, [Cruz's] father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald’s being, you know,
shot. I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right prior to his being shot, and
nobody even brings it up. I mean they don’t even talk about that. That was reported, and
nobody talks about it. But I think it’s horrible. I think it’s absolutely horrible that a man
can go and do that, what he’s saying there.

Fox host: “Right. There was a picture out there that reportedly shows Rafael Cruz
standing with Lee Harvey Oswald . . . ”

Trump: “I mean what was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death, before
the shooting? It’s horrible.”

Fox host: “Crazy.”

Parsing Trump sentences is a challenge, but is rewarding because it frequently reveals
that he actually has said nothing at all. When silence descends, there lingers in the air only
gauzy innuendo. What did Trump really say about “the whole thing” of Oswald?

Looking on the bright side — speaking of challenges — Trump’s nomination might have
two salutary effects: It might counteract "The Cult of the Presidency," as explored in Gene
Healy’s 2008 book with that title. And it might reacquaint Republicans with the reality
principle — the need to assess and adapt to facts.

Healy analyzes the delusion of “redemption through presidential politics.” The infantilization
of America is apparent in the presidency becoming a semi-sacerdotal office, one that
conflates spiritual yearnings and magical thinking about wonders performed by executive
power. Trump, with his coarse character and fanciful promises, is an antidote to such
superstitions.

Now, regarding realities: In 2012, 93 percent of self-described Republicans who voted
did so for Mitt Romney. Trump probably cannot receive 80 percent of what probably will
be, because of discouragement and revulsion, a smaller Republican turnout. Romney lost
73 percent of the Hispanic vote; Trump is viewed unfavorably by 82 percent of Hispanics
and very unfavorably by 62 percent. Trump probably will receive significantly less than
Romney’s ruinous 27 percent of this vote. And because of demographic trends and Trump’s
motivating policies and insults, Hispanic turnout probably will be significantly larger than
in 2012, as the white percentage of the electorate continues to shrink. Romney won just
37 percent of young voters (18–29); Trump is unlikely even to match this.

Although Romney won 53 percent of married women, he received just 44 percent of the
total female vote. Today, Trump trails Hillary Clinton among women by 19 points (35 percent
to 54 percent), and most women probably do not yet know that he testifies to the excellence
of his penis. (“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, has been well-documented, are various
other parts of my body.”) Or that his idea of masculinity is to boast about conquests of
women “often seemingly very happily married” and that “I have been able to date (screw).”
Or that he says “it doesn’t really matter what [the media] write as long as you’ve got a
young and beautiful piece of ass.”

In receiving, so far, the support of 4.7 percent of America’s eligible voters, Trump has won
a mere plurality of votes in a party approved by only 33 percent of the electorate. This electorate
had about 5 percent more Democrats than Republicans even before Trump further tarnished the
GOP brand. So, Republicans need to carry independents by more than Romney’s five points.
Even in states that have voted Republican since 2000, Trump is viewed unfavorably by 62
percent and strongly unfavorably by 52 percent.

His metabolic urge to be scabrous guarantees that Republican candidates everywhere will be
badgered by questions about what they think about what he says. What they say will determine
how many of them lose with him, and how many deserve to.

[sinkspur]

It's inconceivable to me how Trump turns this around.  Really. So many of the attitudes are cemented in.  Hispanics won't support Trump, women won't support Trump, and lots of white men won't either.

All of this Trumpism and Trump talk is nothing but fantasy.  It will never come to pass.

[Fishrrman]

George F. Will: Who Will Follow Trump Off the Cliff?

It be you, George, it be you.

If you don' go a-jumpin' offa dat kliff first!

[geronl]

Now we have Trump cultists calling for higher taxes, saying spending cuts are not realistic... willing to abandon conservatism at the word of the orange man, the same way that grown men hopping in the middle school girls shower is a nothing-burger to them.

[EasyAce]

Now we have Trump cultists calling for higher taxes, saying spending cuts are not realistic... willing to abandon conservatism at the word of the orange man, the same way that grown men hopping in the middle school girls shower is a nothing-burger to them.

Well, why not? Remember all the so-called conservatives ready to abandon conservatism
at the beckon call of George W. Bush? The conservatives who thought the man who
denounced McCain-Feingold (rightly!) as unconstitutional . . . only to sign it and say, in
essence, that it wasn't his job to decide what was or wasn't constitutional? (Right there
the signing made him impeachable, having violated his oath to uphold and defend the
Constitution---an oath which doesn't say against everything except laws aimed at throttling
protected political speech.) The conservatives who basically thought the man who finished
the destruction of the Republican revolution by embracing big-government---
and its further metastasis so long as it was conservatives doing the metastasising---
in hand with a Republican Congress who embraced the same with no apology?

This isn't the first time enough conservatives have run the other way and it probably won't
be the last, either. It's also not the first time enough conservatives embraced the concept
of a president as Supreme Lord and Master and it won't be the last, either.

[GrouchoTex]

I has definitely been a tough week for Trump.

(1) He stated he would pay off the debt in 8 years, and now says he won't do it in 10.
(2) Said Cruz's father  was involved with LHO/JFK, and doubled down on it the following morning, since recanted.
(3) Said he would "look into" raising the minimum wage.
(4) Said his tax plan may be negotiated to higher rates than he first proposed.
(5) At a rally in Nebraska, spent more time attacking republicans than he did Hillary.

I have voted "R" in every election since 1984. McCain and Romney didn't "earn" my vote until the convention was over.
Trump still may yet "earn" my vote, but I won't freely give it to anyone.
I have to vote for something, rather than against something.
It could still happen, but Trump is not off to a great start.

[elhombrelibre]

Relax. Breath. Drink a cup of coffee. (decaf)

Trump will not be any more "liberal" than George Bush and his father were, or that Jeb or Romney would have been. The anti-Trump people are behaving like children throwing a tantrum in the supermarket, because Mommy will not give them the toy they want.

Except he's already running to the Left of Hillary, and he's never hesitated to abandon people or positions no matter how intensely he may have said he supported them.  He is uniquely gifted as a liar, a phantasmagorical one.   He's every bit as brazen as Hillary, and without any of the hypocrisy that might pay homage to common courtesy.  He has no scruples when he lies about people to destroy them, as he showed with the big lie he told about Cruz's father being involved in the JFK murder.  Support him if you wish. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-donald-trump-is-running-to-the-left-of-hillary-clinton/2016/05/09/ebde82da-147c-11e6-8967-7ac733c56f12_story.html

[elhombrelibre]

The  Trump campaign is a new or a different paradigm. It is not traditional Left-Right.

It is America First. It appeals across party lines, and to those that did not vote previously.

Trump doesn't care about immigration, legal or illegal.  It's just a wedge issue he used.  He's the biggest fraud ever to enter public life.  Think of how he denounces the Clintons, and think too of how he funded them, had them at his wedding, and said Bill Clinton's harassment of women was no big deal.  He's an epic liar.  He contradicts himself so frequently that the hardest part of learning his biography or his ideas is that they'll likely change in a day or two.  He has no core.  He's a fraud. 

[GrouchoTex]

I has definitely been a tough week for Trump.

(1) He stated he would pay off the debt in 8 years, and now says he won't do it in 10.
(2) Said Cruz's father  was involved with LHO/JFK, and doubled down on it the following morning, since recanted.
(3) Said he would "look into" raising the minimum wage.
(4) Said his tax plan may be negotiated to higher rates than he first proposed.
(5) At a rally in Nebraska, spent more time attacking republicans than he did Hillary.

I have voted "R" in every election since 1984. McCain and Romney didn't "earn" my vote until the convention was over.
Trump still may yet "earn" my vote, but I won't freely give it to anyone.

I forgot one:

(6) Hiring a former Goldman Sachs/Soros guy to run the campaigns finances.
I have to vote for something, rather than against something.
It could still happen, but Trump is not off to a great start.

[Bigun]

Trump doesn't care about immigration, legal or illegal.  It's just a wedge issue he used.  He's the biggest fraud ever to enter public life.  Think of how he denounces the Clintons, and think too of how he funded them, had them at his wedding, and said Bill Clinton's harassment of women was no big deal.  He's an epic liar.  He contradicts himself so frequently that the hardest part of learning his biography or his ideas is that they'll likely change in a day or two.  He has no core.  He's a fraud. 

Well said! And so very true!!!

[GrouchoTex]

Listening to Breitbart Radio on my way in this morning, I noticed many of the people who are for Trump, think that it is only Cruz supporters who are#Never Trump.
While Cruz was his closest rival, we aren't the only ones.
Trust me, it is Rubio, Paul, Bush, Kasich, Fiorina, Graham, Pataki, Jindal, Perry, etc... supporters as well.
I would venture to say, while these 4 have given Trump their support, there are Carson, Christie, Huckabee, and Santorum supporters who aren't too keen on a Trump presidency, either.
Also, 2-3 times in a 45 minute drive, I heard that the constitution was no longer relevant, and that the country is too far gone for the constitution to matter.
If his supporters believe that, what does Trump believe?

[Jazzhead]

Bret Stephens, in this morning's WSJ:

The best hope for what's left of a serious conservative movement in America is the election in November of a Democratic President, held in check for a Republican Congress.  Conservatives can survive liberal administrations, especially those whose predictable failures lead to healthy restorations - think Carter; then Reagan.  What isn't survivable is a Republican President who is part Know Nothing, part Smoot-Hawley and part John Birch.  The stain of a Trump administration would cripple the conservative cause for a generation.

This is the reality that wavering Republicans need to understand before casting their lot with a presumptive nominee they abhor only slightly less than his likely opponent.   If the next presidency is going to be a disaster, why should the GOP want to own it?