The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre

[EC]

 

Nicely said!

I know I bitch about remakes, but that's more for the paucity of ideas Hollywood seems to have rather than the "Oh noes, they ruined my childhood!" nonsense. (there is a hint of that at times, TBH).

A remake can, and indeed should, be judged on it's own merits.

[Bender2]

So I think that the world is big enough to accommodate both films without having to denigrate either.

A remake can, and indeed should, be judged on it's own merits.

I can only say we shall agree...  to disagree

[LateForLunch]

I can only say we shall agree...to disagree

NO!! I disagree!! (...or DO I?)

[Bender2]

NO!! I disagree!! (...or DO I?)

Lately I've noticed a tendency to agree disagreeably.  It's the sort of thing that gets me scratching my head.

Shut up!!!!!!!!!  You guys--  You--  Have me...   so confused????

Pay no attention...   to that guy--

That just like those reboots...    they make little or no sense at all.

Yes, in our film, there was no confusion...    Earth Germs kicked ass and took name!

And then we got married... and lived happily ever after.

Gadzooks!  Now who can argue...     with that?

[LateForLunch]

Wow! Those candy apple red unisex eyeglasses frames that actor is wearing were way ahead of their time.
 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Smokin Joe]

Gadzooks--  How did I miss...    that one?

Still to this day, 63 year later, so much better...    than the 2005 Spielberg/Cruise reboot.

I won't watch the new one again, but if the old  one is on, grab the popcorn!

[Smokin Joe]

The Cruise/Speilberg remake was brilliant IMO. Largely it was more about characters than about things, which is why it was in some ways superior. The original was intended to be more of a rendering of the radio broadcast by Wells. It was sort of trying to represent visually what people who listened to the broadcast were imagining - especially the emotions of being caught up in a war again -  like the nation had just survived a decade earlier in WWII.

The Spielberg remake was slanted in a different way - it focused as do so many of his films on what the characters in the situation might have realistically gone through. Also many of the visuals of the second film were more true-to-life than the original, mostly because CGI was not available when the first was made, so any attempt to reproduce things like the tripods would have been hokey instead of awe-inspiring.

When the tripod erupts from under the ground and rises into the sky, that is a classic moment of cinema that could not have been accomplished in the era of the first film. Bravo!!

I know it's popular for many to denigrate the remake, but it was arguably superior to the original in many ways - such as the scenes in the basements. The first where the plane crashes was an inspired sequence of cinema and was likely actually taken from a chapter of a book reporting on the real event experience by the son of physicist Hugh Everett (who came up with the Many Worlds Theory as a solution to quantum wave-form collapse). Mark Everett (aka "E") who founded the Eels, wrote about walking through his neighborhood after a passenger airliner crash exactly as portrayed in the movie, in his own autobiography after he became a successful rock musician years after his father had died. I guess that was a little subtle inside-joke from Spielberg (get it? "many worlds"?)

The other basement scene where the character portrayed by Tim Robbins goes nuts and has to be killed by Cruise's character is in some ways far more horrible than all of the alien mayhem.

There was also a very riveting, evocative scene where Dakota Fanning's character is watching bodies floating by in a river that is ghastly and very nicely represents much of the genuine horror of human massacre that is missing from the first, where the human suffering is reduced to a sort of cartoonish, distant thing. Another scene where Cruise's son is breaking away to join the military effort to strike back at the invaders is classic - with Cruise's character torn for his desire to see his son be his own man but also to protect him, where he implores his father," You have to let me go!!!" What parent has not had that agonizing decision to face when their son finally starts to become their own man? Classic.

So I think that the world is big enough to accommodate both films without having to denigrate either.

Considering rampant gore, splatter flicks, and in general putting the horrors of The Killing Fields on the screen didn't come for a quarter century after the original War of the Worlds was made, the absence of those reflects that the remake would never have made it past the censors of the day, even if it was technically possible. The effect was a film more psychological than blatant and in your face blood-and-guts horror. The films played to their respective audiences, and by the time of the remake, the film-going public had been desensitized to gore and blood soaked venues, expected CGI effects and far more 'horror' than would have passed muster in 1953. While there may be room for both, there is room for preferences, and I liked the original far more.
Note, that the classically most effective horror films deal not so much with messy bits as the threat of the monster within or that we do not understand. We fear the unknown, wherever it finds us, right down to our most primal fear of the dark.

[LateForLunch]

Without getting too analytical, the sort of films that Cyber-Liberty and Smokin' Joe are referring to might be defined as the "gothic horror" genre which often uses grim/dark/strange surroundings, implied or impending violence along with sudden graphic representations - like Mary Shelly's Frankenstein novel and Edgar Allen Poe's work. The original feature film "Alien" directed by Ridley Scott and his sequel are also in that category.

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audiences, and not  for everyone. That being said, Forbidden Planet broke new ground by introducing psychological concepts into SF /horror. In F.P. the Freudian ID and a classic Incestuous Daughter-Jealousy theme appeared with Dr. Morbius' unconscious rage (because of his daughter's interest in the Captain) setting off the violence of the Krell machinery. That's fairly heady stuff for a main-stream audience. Yet it was masterfully executed by the director/screenwriters.

A good director will tap into the imagery that emerges from the unconscious in what CG Jung calls archetypes - symbolic representations of themes, fears and desires from most primal levels of consciousness.

Movies like "Jaws" and the "Creature from the Black Lagoon" also tapped into those gnawing, deep fears that we all normally push to outer regions of our awareness. Unseen monsters lurking in the deep water, or in darkness, or in deep caves /caverns. Generally water/darkness are symbols in the psyche for the unknown and the unconscious, which is why they can be so evocative when used in horror films.     
 When we don't know why certain themes or images trouble us, often it's because the images have touched on some classic archetypal theme that goes to the foundations of awareness.

[Smokin Joe]

The sort of films that Cyber-Liberty and Smokin' Joe are referring to might be defined as the "gothic horror" genre often uses grim/dark/strange surroundings, implied or impending violence along with sudden graphic representations - like Mary Shelly's Frankenstein novel and Edgar Allen Poe's work. The original feature film "Alien" directed by Ridley Scott and his sequel are also in that category.

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audience, so they are not for everyone. Forbidden Planet broke new ground by making psychological concepts (the Freudian ID and a classic Incestuous Daughter-Jealousy theme with Dr. Morbius' unconscious rage setting off the killing because of his daughter's interest in the Captain of the star ship). That's fairly heady stuff for a main-stream audience. Yet it was masterfully executed by the director/screenwriters.

A good director will tap into the unconscious imagery that emerges from the unconscious in what CG Jung calls archetypes - symbolic representations of themes and desires in most primal levels of consciousness.

Movies like Jaws and the Creature from the Black Lagoon also tapped into those gnawing, deep fears that we all normally push to outer regions of our awareness. Unseen monsters lurking in the deep water, or in darkness, or in deep caves or caverns. Generally, water/darkness is a symbol in the psyche for the unknown and the unconscious, which is why it can be so evocative when used in films.   

If you are going to go there, don't leave out Psycho (Hitchcock version) or The Birds, the former dealing with the monster within, hiding beneath that calm exterior (also exploited in Silence of the Lambs), the latter dealing with a twist in the ordinary, commonplace, and a taken for granted aspect of our world suddenly becoming hostile. In Jaws, that hostile element was always present, it just made itself known in a venue where it was assumed to not be a threat (especially of that magnitude). Part of the success of the Blair Witch films is the basic and primal fear of the unknown, played upon. You never see the evil, only results. But there, we have crossed from science fiction to horror.

[Machiavelli]

The Cruise/Speilberg remake was brilliant IMO. Largely it was more about characters than about things, which is why it was in some ways superior.

The Spielberg version has better acting, much better all around production values, and is much closer to the original H. G. Wells story than the 1953 version. However, I still prefer the 1953 version. But then, I'm old-fashioned. 

[sneakypete]

The sort of elements that you folks are referring to are fairly sophisticated for many audiences, and not  for everyone. That being said, Forbidden Planet broke new ground by introducing psychological concepts into SF /horror. <<

I know you guys are talking at a level far beyond my understanding of this genre,but wasn't Alfred Hitchcock.Rod Sterling,and Rod Serling doing the psychological  stuff "way back when"?

BTW,to prove I am a geezer,all three are still right at the top of my list of favorites. Especially Hitchcock. He really cracks me up.

[geronl]

Who's Rod Sterling?  Some silver guy?   

He is made of silver.... in the Twilight Bone

[sneakypete]

Who's Rod Sterling?  Some silver guy?   

Serling was actually his name. Lots of people think it was Sterling,but it wasn't. He used to scare the hell out of me every Friday night when I was a kid.

[EC]

Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

[geronl]

Sir Ling?  He was a knighted Chinese person?

Who knew?

 

He was born a poor Asian child

[sneakypete]

He was born a poor Asian child

@geronl

True,but he came to America and grew up to be a rich and handsome Caucasian man. Is America a great country,or what?

[sneakypete]

Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.

[Smokin Joe]

@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.

No one has mentioned The Outer Limits, so I figured I'd bring that show up, too. Between that and the Twilight Zone, we were well entertained as kids.

[EC]

I think One Step Beyond sucked dogs...

Come ON! No way.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-uyWAe0NhQ

[Machiavelli]

Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

I remember it. Good series.

[Machiavelli]

@EC

Thanks for the tip. I have a vague recollection of the Dahl name,but don't remember hearing about Tales of the Unexpected before. I'll check it out. I have a local broadcast channel that airs nothing but 50's and 60's sci-fi and horror movies,the cheesier the better. Not long ago they were having a "Godzilla Dance Party Week". If the image of dancing Godzilla's doesn't make you laugh,I don't know what would.

@sneakypete @EC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tales+of+the+unexpected+full+episodes

[EC]

I'm supposed to be working ....

Ah, bugger it. 

[Smokin Joe]

I think One Step Beyond sucked dogs...

Never saw that one.

[geronl]

No one has mentioned The Outer Limits, so I figured I'd bring that show up, too. Between that and the Twilight Zone, we were well entertained as kids.

Night Gallery wasn't all bad, although Rod looked like Columbo...

[Quix]

Among others.

What would you consider the best SG1 episode? If you can recall.

A link would be even better. LOL.

[LateForLunch]

Sir Ling?  He was a knighted Chinese person?

Who knew?

 

A lot of people have Chinese names these days. For instance, if you notice after there is a police shooting involving a young male black suspect, when they interview the mother you discover that an astonishing number of them have exactly the same Chinese name. The mothers always say, "Mah-Sun was a good boy!" and "Mah-Sun din't nevah have' naw gun!!" and "Mah-Sun was not in no gang!!" , "Everybody loved Mah-Sun" !!

[geronl]

THE DOMES

Scene: Outside of a beautiful house on a hill of flowing grass on a nice, bright day and mountains in the distance.

A family of 4 is looking at it with a real estate agent who is looking for the key.

Scene changes.

It's night in the urban jungle. A car full of gangbangers playing loud music. They are smoking their crack and loading weapons. It's pretty obvious a drive-by is about to take place. Soon they see the family in front of the house and they all start shooting. Bodies litter the ground and scores pop up next to the purple color of their gang. The outline and street lights of the area change from red to purple as the territory changes hands.

But... the family isn't actually there, they are safe. They have no clue they were "shot up" in some live game. You see the urban jungle and the family's house are located apart, separated by the thick barriers of the domes. The exterior of the domes in both of them is false, there is no brightly lit grassy hill any more than the house was within shooting range for a drive by.

THE DOMES

Every dome is different, the way you live your life can change which dome you are allowed to live in. From the friendly suburban communities to the dark, violent ghetto. There is even a prison dome where escapes are allowed to happen time to time, but these always end badly for the escapees. The air outside the domes is pretty toxic, even though the river bottom where they are located is better than most places on Earth.

Scene: Bad Dome (The Urban Jungle)

Bad Dome, Bad Dome whatcha gonna do... whatcha gonna do when the bots come for you?

Occasionally cop bots are sent into the urban jungle of Bad Dome to take out some bad guys, survive this encounter, normaly a shoot-out or vehicle chase or a 24-hour manhunt and you get off Scot-free. If you are captured alive, you go to the prison dome. Yes, this is all recorded for broadcasting.

This program filmed live with the men and women of Bad Dome. All suspects are considered Guilty until proven innocent in a trial by ordeal!

There are probably a lot of stories that could be set in a place like THE DOMES....

[kevindavis007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRz6ET_1po

[Ghost Bear]

Star Trek TV series losing Bryan Fuller as showrunner

Another setback for the eagerly awaited Star Trek TV series revival. Bryan Fuller is stepping down as showrunner on Star Trek: Discovery.

The acclaimed writer-producer of Hannibal and Pushing Daisies has shepherded the project for months. Now Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts (who worked with Fuller on Daisies, as well as worked on ABC’s Revenge and The CW’s Reign) will serve as showrunners. Fuller will stay on board as an executive producer.

Excerpted, more at the link: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/26/star-trek-tv-bryan-fuller

[geronl]

Star Trek TV series losing Bryan Fuller as showrunner

Another setback for the eagerly awaited Star Trek TV series revival. Bryan Fuller is stepping down as showrunner on Star Trek: Discovery.

Why would he have a problem  with STD?

 

[geronl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRz6ET_1po

Nice, but it doesn't tell us much about the film

[Gefn]

Pete - have a hunt around for Tales of the Unexpected. Roald Dahl wrote a lot of them - some are a bit obvious, some are scary as hell - but all psychological. Almost claustrophobic, the best ones are.

Edit to add - it was a TV series.

The best one was the one Roald Dahl wrote for Alfred Hitchcock and later for Tales. The one where the pregnant lady wacks her hubby over the head with the slab of lamb, and serves it to the cops for dinner. It was originally a short story called "lamb to the slaughter"

It's a long way from Charlie Bucket.   

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete @EC

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tales+of+the+unexpected+full+episodes

@Machiavelli

Thank you!

[kevindavis007]

Check this out:


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arrowstorm/magellan-sci-fi-feature-a-near-future-space-thrill/?ref=FBcontest

[kevindavis007]

Ok... I think I'll pass..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeLsJfGmY_Y

[Gefn]

Just learned that Red Dwarf XI is coming out on DVD a week from tomorrow in the USA. It's available pre order on Amazon .,

Dang Brits have already seen it. I'm so jealous!!!!

[uglybiker]

THE DEATH STAR WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN9LdTkR85Q

[Smokin Joe]

THE DEATH STAR WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN9LdTkR85Q

Oh, man! That is just beeyootiful!

[Machiavelli]

10 Science Fiction Books about Politics

Mark Yon
SFFWorld
November 8, 2016

In this collection of potential reading, Mark Yon suggests books that you may appreciate whilst considering your vote.

It may have escaped your attention that during this week there are elections in the US.

Whilst we do not endorse any particular candidate or party at SFFWorld (and the person mainly writing this is non-US anyway!)  but on behalf of SFFWorld we thought we would compile a list of ten SF books that use politics as an important part of their world. Be warned – not all of these are future visions you may like…

More

[Smokin Joe]

10 Science Fiction Books about Politics

Mark Yon
SFFWorld
November 8, 2016
More

Thanks for posting that. I have read half of the books on that list. I reckon I have some catching up to do.

[Ghost Bear]

Thanks for posting that. I have read half of the books on that list. I reckon I have some catching up to do.

I've also read five of the ten books on the list. Not a bad list, although I would say that while the politics in the stories are important to the plots, politics aren't necessarily the focus of the story.  YMMV.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

10 Science Fiction Books about Politics

Mark Yon
SFFWorld
November 8, 2016
More

I'm kind of surprised nothing by John Ringo made the cut.  Maybe next time on the Political books about Science Fiction list.

[LateForLunch]

The Death of Doctor Island by Gene Wolfe. It's not so much politics as about spiritual realization in a cruel world which indirectly relates to all things political.

[Smokin Joe]

I've also read five of the ten books on the list. Not a bad list, although I would say that while the politics in the stories are important to the plots, politics aren't necessarily the focus of the story.  YMMV.

I agree. All the ones I read dealt with (at their core) different models for governance, and the approaches thereof. The claustrophobic domination of INGSOC, the hedonism of the Brave New World, the borderline Fascism of Starship Troopers, the degeneration of interrelationships to livestock/keeper in The Time Machine...

I was surprised to not see Fahrenheit 451 in the list, maybe that is just a little too close to today's interlaced media driven culture for comfort, and the snowflake excuse given for burning all the books because they made people unhappy...
although Stand on Zanzibar comes close to that model, just without the same totalitarian overtones.

I really should make a point of reading the other 5.

[Ghost Bear]

I agree. All the ones I read dealt with (at their core) different models for governance, and the approaches thereof. The claustrophobic domination of INGSOC, the hedonism of the Brave New World, the borderline Fascism of Starship Troopers, the degeneration of interrelationships to livestock/keeper in The Time Machine...

I was surprised to not see Fahrenheit 451 in the list, maybe that is just a little too close to today's interlaced media driven culture for comfort, and the snowflake excuse given for burning all the books because they made people unhappy...
although Stand on Zanzibar comes close to that model, just without the same totalitarian overtones.

I really should make a point of reading the other 5.

Just a warning, The Reality Dysfunction is just the first book in a trilogy, each book being a 1000+ page door stopper.  But I enjoyed them all. Hamilton can really write big-time space opera. Although each book has a slow buildup at the start, the last third of each is packed with action.

[Smokin Joe]

Just a warning, The Reality Dysfunction is just the first book in a trilogy, each book being a 1000+ page door stopper.  But I enjoyed them all. Hamilton can really write big-time space opera. Although each book has a slow buildup at the start, the last third of each is packed with action.

Actually, I like long books, otherwise most come off like Louis L'Amour, which were okay to read when you had an hour or two to kill, but just didn't have the meat of something like Exodus.

[Ghost Bear]

Actually, I like long books, otherwise most come off like Louis L'Amour, which were okay to read when you had an hour or two to kill, but just didn't have the meat of something like Exodus.

Well then, if you like long books, Peter F. Hamilton is definitely an author you should check into.  He has written several series, all of them featuring hundreds-of-pages-long books.

[Smokin Joe]

Well then, if you like long books, Peter F. Hamilton is definitely an author you should check into.  He has written several series, all of them featuring hundreds-of-pages-long books.

Speaking of long books and series, I was surprised Frank Herbert wasn't there, either. Dune, the sequels and prequels were all good reads, although the sequels lost it a little around book 2 or 3 (there are 6 books in all), the prequels written about the different houses by his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are good, too. (Atredies, Harkonnen, Corrino, etc) There are 16 books total in that group. The whole dune series is available at amozon in a group.

[Ghost Bear]

Speaking of long books and series, I was surprised Frank Herbert wasn't there, either. Dune, the sequels and prequels were all good reads, although the sequels lost it a little around book 2 or 3 (there are 6 books in all), the prequels written about the different houses by his son Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are good, too. (Atredies, Harkonnen, Corrino, etc) There are 16 books total in that group. The whole dune series is available at amozon in a group.

Yes, lots of politics in the Dune series. I read the first three, but the fourth (God Emperor of Dune) defeated me: one of the few books (especially when I was younger) that I started but did not finish. I quit in disgust at the way Duncan Idaho was being treated. 

I never went back to it or read any of the subsequent books in the series, although I have occasionally re-read the first three.

[geronl]

Well then, if you like long books, Peter F. Hamilton is definitely an author you should check into.  He has written several series, all of them featuring hundreds-of-pages-long books.

The James A Michener of sci-fi