Trump spokeswoman: There was no attack on Heidi Cruz

[Relic]

You are absolutely correct ... "Trump took advantage of a huge number of voters".  Yes indeed he did.  He brought focus to an extremely volatile issue, and has continued to say what the electorate wants to hear.  He never goes into detail of his plan, the only thing he spews continuously is how great he is and to trust him.  He has chosen to speak in a manner that degrades, insults and attacks various groups of people without giving consideration that he is igniting a fire under an angry electorate. I believe and fear that this just may backfire on the 'orange baboon' once the electorate realizes that Trump is a liar, fake and fraud, the wrath of "We the People" will not be restrained ... and the outcome with be the fault of Donald J. Trump and only Trump.

First, Trump will not be elected. I just can't see that happening. There will be no ramifications for Trump. In fact, it's possible Trump will be generously rewarded by a grateful president Hillary Clinton.

Second, you can't give an arsonist a blow torch, set him loose in a village of wood structures, and claim no responsibility for the fires. The GOP is to blame for this mess.

[musiclady]

First, Trump will not be elected. I just can't see that happening. There will be no ramifications for Trump. In fact, it's possible Trump will be generously rewarded by a grateful president Hillary Clinton.

Second, you can't give an arsonist a blow torch, set him loose in a village of wood structures, and claim no responsibility for the fires. The GOP is to blame for this mess.

But Trump is torching Conservatism, and WE are not to blame.  He's not just destroying the dread GOPe.  He's destroying everyone and everything right of center in this country......... and that includes all of us.

[Jazzhead]

But Trump is torching Conservatism, and WE are not to blame.  He's not just destroying the dread GOPe.  He's destroying everyone and everything right of center in this country......... and that includes all of us.

Agreed.  Conservatism is the real victim of Trump's quackery.   

[musiclady]

Agreed.  Conservatism is the real victim of Trump's quackery.

Yes, and everyone who supported him because he was (supposedly) attacking the GOP is partly responsible for the destruction of the Conservative movement, and the only hope America had to rebuild itself.

[Sanguine]

Quote from: libertybele on Today at 11:54:49 AM


    You are absolutely correct ... "Trump took advantage of a huge number of voters".  Yes indeed he did.  He brought focus to an extremely volatile issue, and has continued to say what the electorate wants to hear.  He never goes into detail of his plan, the only thing he spews continuously is how great he is and to trust him.  He has chosen to speak in a manner that degrades, insults and attacks various groups of people without giving consideration that he is igniting a fire under an angry electorate. I believe and fear that this just may backfire on the 'orange baboon' once the electorate realizes that Trump is a liar, fake and fraud, the wrath of "We the People" will not be restrained ... and the outcome with be the fault of Donald J. Trump and only Trump.

We are responsible in that we allowed a Trump-shaped vacuum to exist. 

And, I think you're right ""We the People" will not be restrained"!

[Relic]

But Trump is torching Conservatism, and WE are not to blame.  He's not just destroying the dread GOPe.  He's destroying everyone and everything right of center in this country......... and that includes all of us.

If Trump is torching "conservatism", then it's clear that you, and those you choose to represent you are too weak.

[Relic]

Agreed.  Conservatism is the real victim of Trump's quackery.

Pfffft. If conservatism was strong and vital, and if those you chose to represent you were true conservatives, there would be no danger.

Trump is an opportunistic infection of a very weak host.

[musiclady]

If Trump is torching "conservatism", then it's clear that you, and those you choose to represent you are too weak.

That's a non-sequitur, Relic.  I am not 'conservatism.'  But it is conservatism that Trump is trashing.

He is trashing social conservatism.  He is trashing fiscal conservatism.  He is trashing small government conservatism.

And he is the embodiment of the lies the left has always told about conservatives....... that we are non-thinking,misogynist, racist bigots.

Trump is all of the above, but the problem is that he doesn't have a conservative bone in his body.

Not even a Republican bone.

He's a Progressive trashing conservatism.............. and succeeding.

In their glee to destroy the Republican party, so-called conservatives latched on to the Trump band-wagon without a single thought as to the consequences of their irresponsible behavior.  Because instead of destroying the Republican party through Trump and replacing it with something conservative.  They have destroyed the Republican party and replaced it with a leftist thug who wants to be king.

Great work, guys....

[Relic]

That's a non-sequitur, Relic.  I am not 'conservatism.'  But it is conservatism that Trump is trashing.

He is trashing social conservatism.  He is trashing fiscal conservatism.  He is trashing small government conservatism.

And he is the embodiment of the lies the left has always told about conservatives....... that we are non-thinking,misogynist, racist bigots.

Trump is all of the above, but the problem is that he doesn't have a conservative bone in his body.

Not even a Republican bone.

He's a Progressive trashing conservatism.............. and succeeding.

In their glee to destroy the Republican party, so-called conservatives latched on to the Trump band-wagon without a single thought as to the consequences of their irresponsible behavior.  Because instead of destroying the Republican party through Trump and replacing it with something conservative.  They have destroyed the Republican party and replaced it with a leftist thug who wants to be king.

Great work, guys....

Non-sequitur? I address what you say and you brand it a non-sequitur? I must conclude that you are so blinded by your moment of drama that you can't recognize that I posted your quote and addressed it, or that you simply see yourself as the arbiter of all that is relevant?

You are not conservatism, this is true. But, you consider yourself conservative, do you not?

If conservatism is a superior principle to liberalism, and if conservatism is being so thoroughly trashed by this man you so despise, then something is wrong with the equation. Either conservatism isn't as superior as we all choose to believe, or those that embrace conservatism do not do so with enough vigor. Those who espouse conservatism do not do so with enough spirit.

Conservatism is losing. It is being mocked, devalued and marginalized. I said it before, I firmly believe that Trump is not the disease, he is merely a symptom. Those elected as conservatives are more interested in their place at the trough then they are educating about and implementing conservatism.

You can blame Trump all you want. You can say he is the total problem. It is your right to be myopic, that's how Republicans got into this mess they are in.

[A-Lert]

Non-sequitur? I address what you say and you brand it a non-sequitur? I must conclude that you are so blinded by your moment of drama that you can't recognize that I posted your quote and addressed it, or that you simply see yourself as the arbiter of all that is relevant?

You are not conservatism, this is true. But, you consider yourself conservative, do you not?

If conservatism is a superior principle to liberalism, and if conservatism is being so thoroughly trashed by this man you so despise, then something is wrong with the equation. Either conservatism isn't as superior as we all choose to believe, or those that embrace conservatism do not do so with enough vigor. Those who espouse conservatism do not do so with enough spirit.

Conservatism is losing. It is being mocked, devalued and marginalized. I said it before, I firmly believe that Trump is not the disease, he is merely a symptom. Those elected as conservatives are more interested in their place at the trough then they are educating about and implementing conservatism.

You can blame Trump all you want. You can say he is the total problem. It is your right to be myopic, that's how Republicans got into this mess they are in.

Excellent assessment and thoughtful, insightful response. Well done! :thumbsup2:

[musiclady]

Non-sequitur? I address what you say and you brand it a non-sequitur? I must conclude that you are so blinded by your moment of drama that you can't recognize that I posted your quote and addressed it, or that you simply see yourself as the arbiter of all that is relevant?

You are not conservatism, this is true. But, you consider yourself conservative, do you not?

If conservatism is a superior principle to liberalism, and if conservatism is being so thoroughly trashed by this man you so despise, then something is wrong with the equation. Either conservatism isn't as superior as we all choose to believe, or those that embrace conservatism do not do so with enough vigor. Those who espouse conservatism do not do so with enough spirit.

Conservatism is losing. It is being mocked, devalued and marginalized. I said it before, I firmly believe that Trump is not the disease, he is merely a symptom. Those elected as conservatives are more interested in their place at the trough then they are educating about and implementing conservatism.

You can blame Trump all you want. You can say he is the total problem. It is your right to be myopic, that's how Republicans got into this mess they are in.

Well, I'll ignore your silly ad hominems (which have no bearing on the discussion, btw, but make you look cute), and address the point.

Millions of Americans look at Trump and see him as representing Conservatism.  He embodies every lie the left has ever told about us, and those of his followers who have become goons like he is, do too.

There is not one drop of conservatism in Donald Trump, and yet he is claiming to represent us.

OF COURSE, he is not the entire problem (I never even remotely insinuated that he was), but he is wreaking havoc, not only on the movement that he is mocking, but on those of us who actually believe in the things he knows nothing about.

Now I realize that you have personal issues against me, and that's fine (because you are clueless and hold grudges for a very long time....sort of like a girl), but if you want to respond,  please stick to the issues I raise and give up the goofball personal attacks, OK?

[Relic]

Well, I'll ignore your silly ad hominems (which have no bearing on the discussion, btw, but make you look cute), and address the point.

Millions of Americans look at Trump and see him as representing Conservatism.  He embodies every lie the left has ever told about us, and those of his followers who have become goons like he is, do too.

There is not one drop of conservatism in Donald Trump, and yet he is claiming to represent us.

OF COURSE, he is not the entire problem (I never even remotely insinuated that he was), but he is wreaking havoc, not only on the movement that he is mocking, but on those of us who actually believe in the things he knows nothing about.

Now I realize that you have personal issues against me, and that's fine (because you are clueless and hold grudges for a very long time....sort of like a girl), but if you want to respond,  please stick to the issues I raise and give up the goofball personal attacks, OK?

So funny that you're so blinded, and so sure of your own superiority.

Addressing your post, such as it is, you said:

But Trump is torching Conservatism, and WE are not to blame.  He's not just destroying the dread GOPe.  He's destroying everyone and everything right of center in this country......... and that includes all of us.

That is not a qualified statement. For me to know that you find other sources to blame for the Trump phenomenon I'd have to be a mind reader. Then, you'd correctly scold me for trying to read things into your post. I take what you said at face value. I think the key to that post is "WE are not to blame." Most would take that to mean this is all Trump's fault.

You tell me not to use insults, and you use insults to reinforce that. That's in the same vein as the old Obama plea for civility while telling supporters to "get in their face", "if they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun."

Finally, I have no grudge that I hold against you. You overestimate the value of your posts to me. I do vaguely recall we had a less than pleasant exchange, but I have no idea what it was about, and couldn't care less. You start off by telling me my post was a non-sequitur, which is a restrained way of telling someone they posted garbage. When I point out your error, you get all emotional.

If you don't want to see replies like the ones I've made to you, don't post emotionally charged drivel.

[HonestJohn]

That's crap. Just as Barack Obama is the symptom, not the illness, Donald Trump is a factor because of the feckless GOP. The GOP created the conditions for Donald Trump to rise and prosper.

The GOP has chucked this election. Hillary will win in a cake walk, and that's just the reality of the situation. You can blame Trump all you want, but he didn't just appear. He took advantage of a huge number of voters, on both sides of the aisle, who feel no one is listening to them. And those voters are right.

My only quibble with this is that it's not the GOP that did this.  It the GOP voter that did this.

[HonestJohn]

But Trump is torching Conservatism, and WE are not to blame.  He's not just destroying the dread GOPe.  He's destroying everyone and everything right of center in this country......... and that includes all of us.

Trump is the fuel... but the GOP voter is the fire.  Trump could not torch Conservatism if our own voters weren't happy to support it.

[Relic]

My only quibble with this is that it's not the GOP that did this.  It the GOP voter that did this.

To separate the voters from the party itself becomes a hair splitting exercise.

The political class have a great deal of control over the candidates the which the voters are to support.

Some voters have been unrealistic.

There is blame for both. However, the political class should have seen this coming. Eric Cantor was the warning shot.

[Sanguine]

To separate the voters from the party itself becomes a hair splitting exercise.

The political class have a great deal of control over the candidates the which the voters are to support.

Some voters have been unrealistic.

There is blame for both. However, the political class should have seen this coming. Eric Cantor was the warning shot.

Let's make Ryan the next one.

[sinkspur]

 
Nate SilverVerified account
‏@NateSilver538
Exclusive @FiveThirtyEight projection on what the Electoral College would look like if women refuse to vote Trump.

[sinkspur]

Let's make Ryan the next one.

Uh, no.

[HonestJohn]

To separate the voters from the party itself becomes a hair splitting exercise.

The political class have a great deal of control over the candidates the which the voters are to support.

Some voters have been unrealistic.

There is blame for both. However, the political class should have seen this coming. Eric Cantor was the warning shot.

I point it out as those doing this have this rage against the GOPe... i.e. rage against the party.

So there is a clear difference in their mind.  So that means, in their worldview, that this is all happening because of them, not the party.

[Relic]

Nate SilverVerified account
‏@NateSilver538
Exclusive @FiveThirtyEight projection on what the Electoral College would look like if women refuse to vote Trump.

What's it look like if men refuse to vote for her heinous?
Trump won't win, but that's just dumb.

[Sanguine]

Uh, no.

And, why not, oh-man-of-few-words?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

And, why not, oh-man-of-few-words?

It's this brainless "against the establishment" movement that created Trump, and killed electable candidates like Kasich and Rubio. What's sad is that nobody can say what the establishment is. It's nothing more than talk radio pablum.

[sinkspur]

And, why not, oh-man-of-few-words?

Why?  Too GOPe for you, or "establishment," or one of a hundred bullshit words slung against Republican leaders? You want some clown like Louie Gohmert as Speaker?

[musiclady]

So funny that you're so blinded, and so sure of your own superiority.

Addressing your post, such as it is, you said:
 

That is not a qualified statement. For me to know that you find other sources to blame for the Trump phenomenon I'd have to be a mind reader. Then, you'd correctly scold me for trying to read things into your post. I take what you said at face value. I think the key to that post is "WE are not to blame." Most would take that to mean this is all Trump's fault.

You tell me not to use insults, and you use insults to reinforce that. That's in the same vein as the old Obama plea for civility while telling supporters to "get in their face", "if they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun."

Finally, I have no grudge that I hold against you. You overestimate the value of your posts to me. I do vaguely recall we had a less than pleasant exchange, but I have no idea what it was about, and couldn't care less. You start off by telling me my post was a non-sequitur, which is a restrained way of telling someone they posted garbage. When I point out your error, you get all emotional.

If you don't want to see replies like the ones I've made to you, don't post emotionally charged drivel.

Funny.  I was just replying to YOUR sense of superiority and emotionally charged drivel.   Most of what I said was tongue in cheek, (the only 'emotion' I was feeling was amusement at your post) and I was merely responding in kind to your insults, and was curious as to how you'd respond.  You didn't let me down, since you responded defensively, and emotionally, once again, I see....

You could have responded to what I said, but instead YOU made it personal.  It's not that you lack the intellect to address issues, (i.e. how Trump is destroying the conservative movement)  it's that you prefer to insult me rather than stick to the subject matter.

Frankly, I think you overestimate the value of your posts entirely.  Next time you want me to respond, stick with the rational and stay away from the personal, and I think we'll get along fine.

That is if you have the self-control.......

[Sanguine]

Why?  Too GOPe for you, or "establishment," or one of a hundred bullshit words slung against Republican leaders? You want some clown like Louie Gohmert as Speaker?

Yes, he is too "establishment" for me.  He is a well-oiled part of the problem.

As for Louie Gohmert - I like Louie a lot. Why on earth would you call him a clown?  He's very sharp, principled and a bit of a bull dog.  What's not to like?