Author Topic: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump  (Read 1950 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump

 by JONAH GOLDBERG   

March 9, 2016 12:00 AM

 What a short, strange trip it’s been for Donald Trump’s conservative supporters. Ever since the Goldwaterite takeover of the GOP, the party has tried to convert voters to conservatism. This orientation has sometimes led it to follow a “better to be right and lose” axiom — hence Goldwater’s disastrous defeat in 1964. Now we seem to have tipped in the other direction, thinking it’s “better to be wrong and win.”

George W. Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” was seen as a nod in this direction, and a great many conservatives — myself included — were critical of his efforts to triangulate against traditional limited-government conservatism.

After Barack Obama’s election, the Republican party lurched toward purity. The tea parties were a revolt not only against Obama’s leftism but also, belatedly, against the perceived apostasies of Bush, as well as John McCain.

In 2009, then-senator Jim DeMint declared he’d rather have 30 reliable conservatives in the Senate than 60 unreliable ones. Ted Cruz launched his presidential campaign on the premise that deviation from pure conservatism cost Republicans the 2012 election. The only way to win was to refuse to compromise and instead give voters a clear choice. Many of the right’s most vocal ideological enforcers cheered him on.

Until Trump started winning. Suddenly, the emphasis wasn’t on winning through purer conservatism but on winning at any cost.

Consider Larry Kudlow and Stephen Moore. In August, the two legendarily libertarian-minded economists attacked Trump, focusing on what they called Trump’s “Fortress America platform.” His trade policies threaten the global economic order, they warned. “We can’t help wondering whether the recent panic in world financial markets is in part a result of the Trump assault on free trade,” they mused. As for Trump’s immigration policies, they could “hardly be further from the Reagan vision of America as a ‘shining city on a hill.’”

Months later, as Trump rose in the polls, Kudlow and Moore joined the ranks of Trump’s biggest boosters — and not because Trump changed his views. On the contrary, Kudlow has moved markedly in Trump’s direction. He now argues that the borders must be sealed and all visas canceled. He also thinks we have to crack down on China.

What explains such Pauline conversions on the road to a Trump presidency? One argument they and many other converts make is purely consequentialist. “For me, Trump potentially represents a big expansion of the Republican Party, a way to bring in those blue-collar Reagan Democrats,” Moore told the Washington Post. “That’s necessary if the party is going to win again.” Instead of converting voters to conservatism, Trump is succeeding at converting conservatives to statism.

 Lost in the discussion is any effort to win a mandate for conservative policies, other than an impossible crackdown on immigration (and even on this Trump has acknowledged that he would be more “flexible” than initially advertised). Instead of converting voters to conservatism, Trump is succeeding at converting conservatives to statism on everything from health care and entitlements to trade.

Perhaps the most frustrating aspect of this sorry state of affairs is that many conservatives have been arguing for years that we must update Republican policies to help the very people Trump is now winning over through ideologically haphazard and substance-free demagoguery. Indeed, a diverse group of intellectuals associated with the Conservative Reform Network and the journal National Affairs developed a host of policies that apply Reaganite principles to today’s problems.

 As Ramesh Ponnuru (my colleague at the American Enterprise Institute and National Review) has argued, cutting top marginal tax rates were a priority when President Reagan took office in 1980 because they were at 70 percent. Now they’re at 39.6 percent, so maybe other forms of tax relief should take priority? For instance, Ponnuru has championed beefed-up child tax credits to help struggling families raise the next generation of taxpayers.

Reformocons, as they’re sometimes called, were trying to find a way to grow the party without abandoning Reaganite principles. For their efforts, they were dismissed as apostates. Kudlow and Moore heaped scorn on reformocon ideas. Rush Limbaugh, for his part, dismissed reform conservatism as “capitulation” to liberalism. The irony is that reform conservatives almost uniformly oppose Trump’s populist deformation of conservatism, and the former purists are now calling for unity behind the Mother of all Capitulations, rationalized by Trump’s promise to win, conservatism be damned.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432487/donald-trump-conservative-supporters-have-sold-out
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2016, 04:25:27 pm »
Instead of converting voters to conservatism, Trump is succeeding at converting conservatives to statism.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 02:58:52 am »
Instead of converting voters to conservatism, Trump is succeeding at converting conservatives to statism.

Oh please.  What have purists done to convert voters to conservatism in the 28 years since Reagan left office?





« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 02:59:27 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 03:04:50 am »
Oh please.  What have purists done to convert voters to conservatism in the 28 years since Reagan left office?



Not much; therein lies most of the problems.  Even worse, neither have republicans in general.  For some reason it has escaped the GOP - including especially Trump - that you have to take the positive, explain why the principles and policies of the GOP are inclusive, will in the balance improve peoples' lives, including those who stand to lose in the short run (e.g., people whose welfare benefits might be cut).  Instead it's been a steady drip, drip, drip of negativity, of what republicans are against - or worse yet, what they should be against - again culminating in Trump, who has brought negativity to an apotheosis.


« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 03:05:29 am by Bill Cipher »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 03:13:53 am »
Oh please.  What have purists done to convert voters to conservatism in the 28 years since Reagan left office?

The point is, Trump is pushing some conservatives to much bigger government, which is at the heart of his campaign.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 03:33:25 am »





this is at the HEART of his campaign!!!!




Have Indentified as a Male since birth!

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 03:40:14 am »
The point is, Trump is pushing some conservatives to much bigger government, which is at the heart of his campaign.

Which conservatives?

Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2016, 03:41:31 am »
Which conservatives?

The ones who were decrying Obama's increase in the size of the government, right up until Trump seduced them.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2016, 03:47:19 am »
Which conservatives?

Anybody who supports him. If you support Trump, you love big government because that's at the heart of Trump's policies.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2016, 03:48:01 am »
The ones who were decrying Obama's increase in the size of the government, right up until Trump seduced them.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/25/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.htmlhttp://

He spent more than 21 straight hours railing against any government funding for Obamacare. Then Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas joined the other 99 senators from both parties in voting Wednesday to move ahead on a spending plan expected to do just that.



Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2016, 03:49:24 am »
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/25/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.htmlhttp://

He spent more than 21 straight hours railing against any government funding for Obamacare. Then Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas joined the other 99 senators from both parties in voting Wednesday to move ahead on a spending plan expected to do just that.





Folks, here we have a classic example of dodging the question.  What about Trump, hmmm?

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2016, 03:49:36 am »
Anybody who supports him. If you support Trump, you love big government because that's at the heart of Trump's policies.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/25/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.htmlhttp://


He spent more than 21 straight hours railing against any government funding for Obamacare. Then Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas joined the other 99 senators from both parties in voting Wednesday to move ahead on a spending plan expected to do just that.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2016, 03:51:21 am »
The point is, Trump is pushing some conservatives to much bigger government, which is at the heart of his campaign.

Sink, you are wrong.  Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

But carry on.

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2016, 03:52:41 am »

Folks, here we have a classic example of dodging the question.  What about Trump, hmmm?

Trump didn't vote for increasing the size of government. 100 US Senators did that despite some  stating they would not. So who are you calling a liar?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2016, 03:53:27 am »

Folks, here we have a classic example of dodging the question.  What about Trump, hmmm?

Hmmm... I  read this article.  The issue is about purist--conservatives who won't budge out of the 1980s-.


« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 03:54:02 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2016, 03:56:12 am »
Trump didn't vote for increasing the size of government. 100 US Senators did that despite some  stating they would not. So who are you calling a liar?

That's merely because so far no one's been dumb enough to trust Trump with elected office.

But I don't need a vote, I just need the man's own words that he is going to keep Obamacare but get rid of the individual mandate.  That will simply blow out whatever remains of the budget.  But then again, why take Trump at his word; he'll only change it tomorrow when he gets called on it.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2016, 03:56:57 am »

Hmmm... I  read this article.  The issue is about purist--conservatives who won't budge out of the 1980s-.





Perhaps you should have read the string of posts of which that was the most recent.  Then you would have figured out what that post was about.

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2016, 04:00:07 am »
That's merely because so far no one's been dumb enough to trust Trump with elected office.

But I don't need a vote, I just need the man's own words that he is going to keep Obamacare but get rid of the individual mandate.  That will simply blow out whatever remains of the budget.  But then again, why take Trump at his word; he'll only change it tomorrow when he gets called on it.



He spent more than 21 straight hours railing against any government funding for Obamacare. Then Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas joined the other 99 senators from both parties in voting Wednesday to move ahead on a spending plan expected to do just that.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 04:01:04 am »

Perhaps you should have read the string of posts of which that was the most recent.  Then you would have figured out what that post was about.

So, are you ready to "capitulate" and move out of the 1980s?  Feel free to wrap your answer in sarcasm, but at least answer the question.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 04:01:24 am »
Sink, you are wrong.  Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

But carry on.

Really? No entitlement reform, more military, more intervention in the lives of Americans by limiting free speech, building a wall, rounding up illegals.  "

That's big government.  In spades
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2016, 04:06:59 am »
Really? No entitlement reform, more military, more intervention in the lives of Americans by limiting free speech, building a wall, rounding up illegals.  " 

Sink, ping me when you've read Trump's policy proposals.   I consider you unable to debate with any degree of veracity until you do.

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2016, 04:07:19 am »
Really? No entitlement reform, more military, more intervention in the lives of Americans by limiting free speech, building a wall, rounding up illegals.  "

That's big government.  In spades


Those presently in government are solely responsible. Trump has voted for a single budget or entitlement. That's a fact!

Bill Cipher

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 04:09:48 am »

Those presently in government are solely responsible. Trump has voted for a single budget or entitlement. That's a fact!

Yes, and it's a fact that Trump has said he will not reform entitlements, will round up people who appear to be illegals, waste billions building a white elephant of a wall, and basically everything Sinkspur said.


Offline sinkspur

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2016, 04:12:00 am »
Sink, ping me when you've read Trump's policy proposals.   I consider you unable to debate with any degree of veracity until you do.

I've read them. He's big government.  Anybody who wants to limit the media by suing them for libel, and who wants to just leave entitlements as they are is big government.  More debt.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

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Re: Conservative Purists Are Capitulating with Support of Trump
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2016, 04:20:52 am »
Yes, and it's a fact that Trump has said he will not reform entitlements, will round up people who appear to be illegals, waste billions building a white elephant of a wall, and basically everything Sinkspur said.

Y
Trump  stated he would eliminate some government departments, send illegals back
and control the border. Make America great again. You disagree?

He spent more than 21 straight hours railing against any government funding for Obamacare. Then Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas joined the other 99 senators from both parties in voting Wednesday to move ahead on a spending plan expected to do just that.