Trump Says Mexican Auto Industry to Blame for Detroit's Economic Hardship - Trump leads Michigan polls

[aligncare]

While our Big-2.5 are building factories in Mexico... let's not forget how many foreign carmakers are building plants here.

Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, BMW... just to name a few.

The funny thing is that outside of the US and China, every other country that has an auto industry has a strong auto worker union, including Mexico.

No one's trying to stop that, especially not me. I'm trying to change economic incentives - like lowering corporate tax rates to globally competitive levels – to bring American companies back to America.

If the rest of the world wants to come here and hire Americans to build their products fine! More power to us.

[Frank Cannon]

Ford has been making cars in Windsor Ontario along with other places over the border for decades, but building them in Mexico is setting Dons hair on fire. This isn't adding up on the real world ledger.

BTW, Detroit started declining specifically because of the auto industry being in Detroit. Poor folks moving up from the south to get auto industry jobs sent Detroiters out to the suburbs in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't any NAFTA related activity.

[truth_seeker]

Ford has been making cars in Windsor Ontario along with other places over the border for decades, but building them in Mexico is setting Dons hair on fire. This isn't adding up on the real world ledger.

BTW, Detroit started declining specifically because of the auto industry being in Detroit. Poor folks moving up from the south to get auto industry jobs sent Detroiters out to the suburbs in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't any NAFTA related activity.

Did Detroit decline because of the auto industry, or because of the poor folks from the South?

If that is the case, why have BMW, Mercedes, VW all started manufacturing in America's Southern states? Likewise almost all the Japanese and Korean carmakers.

I propose that American carmakers were very badly managed. Gradual loss of market share, combined with cheaper manufacturing options, high union wages, worked to make Detroit obsolete as a competitive location.

[HonestJohn]

Did Detroit decline because of the auto industry, or because of the poor folks from the South?

If that is the case, why have BMW, Mercedes, VW all started manufacturing in America's Southern states? Likewise almost all the Japanese and Korean carmakers.

I propose that American carmakers were very badly managed. Gradual loss of market share, combined with cheaper manufacturing options, high union wages, worked to make Detroit obsolete as a competitive location.

I'd say it was poor management decisions in choosing what the American customer wanted... and at the same time, agreeing to anything the unions wanted.  Couple that with a 'who cares how we build our cars, they'll still buy it' mentality of the average worker.

Had management offered incentives for quality production in the course of contract negotiations, they might have been accepted by the unions (as more money in their pocket).  But they didn't even try.

[R4 TrumPence]

Aligncare, I have spoke before that I am IBM, for "Italian By Marriage." My wife's family are unapologetically American First.

People spouting off calling others "National Front" for simply taking an interest in our own citizens first, is ridiculous.

Mr. Trump is such a Nazi that his daughter married a Jew then converted. Some racist, that Trump.

The fanatics are his detractors that cannot get their heads around what has and is changing in American politics. The old Left-Right axis is obsolete.

And witness his detractors behaving just exactly like liberals playing the race card. Just exactly like liberals.

And with that obsolete paradigm are going (some of) the institutions that keep it alive for brewing resentments.

As a naïve 19 year old, when I first met my wife's family, I tried to be cool and cracked Mafia jokes. Nobody laughed or liked the suggestion, period. I got my lesson about impugning others over false race stereotypes.

In 2016 there actually are people in America that understand Mr. Trump is NOT against all Hispanics or Muslims. He IS for keeping us safe from criminal terrorists and illegal immigrants.

Great Post!

I'M IBM too!

[A-Lert]

Ford has been making cars in Windsor Ontario along with other places over the border for decades, but building them in Mexico is setting Dons hair on fire. This isn't adding up on the real world ledger.

BTW, Detroit started declining specifically because of the auto industry being in Detroit. Poor folks moving up from the south to get auto industry jobs sent Detroiters out to the suburbs in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't any NAFTA related activity.

The Canadian auto workers generally make in excess of $20.00/hr in wages.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Canadian-Auto-Workers-Salaries-E468984.htm

Even after years of Mexico’s cost of living inching up and American wages going down, Mexico’s labor rates are still a fraction of U.S. rates. Mexico’s auto assemblers nowadays pay $4 to $5 an hour. U.S. rates differ all over the map now, from $28 an hour in wages for the Detroit 3, to $14 an hour for new Tier 2 Detroit 3 workers, to hourly wage rates at the transplants that vary from $15 into the high $20s.

But all of them are far higher than Mexico’s $5. And the going rate at Mexican parts plants these days is about $2 an hour. Throw in the benefits that are standard in Mexico, and a parts worker’s hourly compensation package is closer to $3.


http://www.autonews.com/article/20120201/BLOG06/120209989/mexico%E2%80%99s-auto-boom-is-about-wages

[truth_seeker]

Great Post!

I'M IBM too!

I really do have the T-shirt (from a fantabulous family reunion)

We have Hispanics, Asians, a black in our extended families. But the forces here opposing Mr. Trump think my wife and I, our families, are racists and zenophobes, hence not as polished and iltelligent as they are.

Tell that to the doctors and lawyers, educators and military service persons in our group. Tell that to the purple heart decorated vets. 

[HAPPY2BME]

I really do have the T-shirt (from a fantabulous family reunion)

We have Hispanics, Asians, a black in our extended families. But the forces here opposing Mr. Trump think my wife and I, our families, are racists and zenophobes, hence not as polished and iltelligent as they are.

Tell that to the doctors and lawyers, educators and military service persons in our group. Tell that to the purple heart decorated vets.

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2 THUMBS UP!

[aligncare]

"People spouting off calling others "National Front" for simply taking an interest in our own citizens first, is ridiculous.

Mr. Trump is such a Nazi that his daughter married a Jew then converted. Some racist, that Trump."


Obvious to objective observers, t_s.

Their reliance on leftist tactics like the race and antisemite card is below contempt.

These old conservative eyes of mine have definitely been opened to just how nasty conservatives can be when their purity is violated and their power, such as it is, is threatened.

[Frank Cannon]

The Canadian auto workers generally make in excess of $20.00/hr in wages.

That's irrelevant. This issue is lost US jobs. Doesn't matter what the worker makes, it is one less job in manufacturing the US has. I had a 1974 Montego MX wagon and all over the damn thing were "Made In Canada" stickers. That was 40 years ago and no one gave a rats. Now it is the reason the country is failing. Doesn't add up. We are manufacturing more cars in the US now than we were back then.

[A-Lert]

That's irrelevant.

"Ford has been making cars in Windsor Ontario along with other places over the border for decades"

Then why did you bring it up in then first place?

[Frank Cannon]

"Ford has been making cars in Windsor Ontario along with other places over the border for decades"

Then why did you bring it up in then first place?

The loss of American jobs. These companies have been building cars we drive in foreign countries forever. Why is it an issue now and why is it just one or two countries that are the issue and not all of them?

[R4 TrumPence]

I really do have the T-shirt (from a fantabulous family reunion)

We have Hispanics, Asians, a black in our extended families. But the forces here opposing Mr. Trump think my wife and I, our families, are racists and zenophobes, hence not as polished and iltelligent as they are.

Tell that to the doctors and lawyers, educators and military service persons in our group. Tell that to the purple heart decorated vets.

I have a T-shirt too!  Got it at the Italian/Irish festival in North Myrtle Beach.

[A-Lert]

The loss of American jobs. These companies have been building cars we drive in foreign countries forever. Why is it an issue now and why is it just one or two countries that are the issue and not all of them?

You can't decipher the difference in Mexican and Canadian wages,  living and working conditions? For those of us interested, the disparity has always been an issue.

[truth_seeker]

I have a T-shirt too!  Got it at the Italian/Irish festival in North Myrtle Beach.

My wife's familia held a reunion for over 100 people at Big Pine on the east side of the Sierras on Hwy. 395 (north of Lone Pine, south of Bishop).

Family had use of two side-by-side homes along a stream, and the rest stayed in motels. One group from Jacksonville Florida, one group from Reno (actually among the closest) and the rest from SoCal and NorCal.

They designed and had 100 shirts printed.  Did you know that to a computer database, DeMarco and De Marco are totally different names? (not their name)

[aligncare]

My wife's familia held a reunion for over 100 people at Big Pine on the east side of the Sierras on Hwy. 395 (north of Lone Pine, south of Bishop).

Family had use of two side-by-side homes along a stream, and the rest stayed in motels. One group from Jacksonville Florida, one group from Reno (actually among the closest) and the rest from SoCal and NorCal.

They designed and had 100 shirts printed.  Did you know that to a computer database, DeMarco and De Marco are totally different names? (not their name)

I lived in California 23 years. I know where you're talking about. Beautiful.

[HAPPY2BME]

My wife's familia held a reunion for over 100 people at Big Pine on the east side of the Sierras on Hwy. 395 (north of Lone Pine, south of Bishop).

Family had use of two side-by-side homes along a stream, and the rest stayed in motels. One group from Jacksonville Florida, one group from Reno (actually among the closest) and the rest from SoCal and NorCal.

===============================

Man I love that place.  Used to camp on Taboose Creek and catch trout all day long and was the only one there.  The Owens River was actually flowing back then.  L.A. drained it dry.  Great place though.  Almost heaven.

[Frank Cannon]

You can't decipher the difference in Mexican and Canadian wages,  living and working conditions? For those of us interested, the disparity has always been an issue.

I won't be rude, but I will be blunt. I do not give two shits about the working conditions for foreign workers. If Paco makes 20 cents and hour installing right front fenders and Gordon Lightfoot makes $40 and hour installing right front fenders, that is still a right front fender not being installed by a US worker. That is the complaint of Trump. Not equal wages in North America. Jobs for US workers.

[aligncare]

Norcal also has great recreational spots: streams, reservoirs, lakes, Sacramento River, Whiskeytown, Shasta lake, Clear lake...ahh, Tahoe.

I miss California.

Sorry about the interruption...carry on.

[HAPPY2BME]

Norcal also has great recreational spots: streams, reservoirs, lakes, Sacramento River, Whiskeytown, Shasta lake, Clear lake...ahh, Tahoe.

I miss California.

Sorry about the interruption...carry on.

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Enjoyed it. 

Have folks in Napa Valley, and sis-in-law runs a winery.  Always come back with a case of Napa necter.  Went on the Skunk Train wine festival last fall and had a ball.  If you're ever near Inglenook, make sure you go to Francis Ford Coppola winery!

http://www.winemag.com/2012/08/06/francis-ford-coppola-from-feature-films-to-fine-wine/

[A-Lert]

I do not give two shits about the working conditions for foreign workers.

 Nor do I, but the US consumer pays the same price for  vehicles manufactured in Mexico  as those manufactured in the USA. I'll be blunt;  If you don't or can't see the problem, you are blind. Sorry if that seems rude, but it appears to me that you don't want to see the problem. I'm a USA first person.

[EdinVA]

While our Big-2.5 are building factories in Mexico... let's not forget how many foreign carmakers are building plants here.

Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, BMW... just to name a few.

The funny thing is that outside of the US and China, every other country that has an auto industry has a strong auto worker union, including Mexico.

I went thru the BMW plant in SC a few years back.
All of the engineering is being done in Europe, the entire drive train, frame, tired, interior body panels, seats etc are being made in europe then shipped here and our folks assemble the body and put it on the frame.

None of the parts are being supplied in country so all of this talk about foreign car makers here is really not a true story.

[HonestJohn]

I went thru the BMW plant in SC a few years back.
All of the engineering is being done in Europe, the entire drive train, frame, tired, interior body panels, seats etc are being made in europe then shipped here and our folks assemble the body and put it on the frame.

None of the parts are being supplied in country so all of this talk about foreign car makers here is really not a true story.

All auto plants are like that, worldwide.  Today they are just assembly plants with subcontractors making the individual parts for the assembly plant worker to install.  About the only thing made at the plants nowadays are, perhaps, the chassis.

Even the engine, while still made by the car manufacturer, isn't made on site at the assembly plant.

[Frank Cannon]

Nor do I, but the US consumer pays the same price for  vehicles manufactured in Mexico  as those manufactured in the USA. I'll be blunt;  If you don't or can't see the problem, you are blind. Sorry if that seems rude, but it appears to me that you don't want to see the problem. I'm a USA first person.

Who cares what the car costs? Consumers have choices and Ford (and American company) seems to be doing well despite your concern.

You keep moving the goal posts around. This thread involves Trump upset that Ford is building cars in Mexico because it is a loss of American jobs in Detroit. I cited that they are made elsewhere other than Mexico, but no one cares about that. You keep picking and choosing random points about wages and sticker prices here to fabricate an argument.

Are you upset about American job losses, profit margins for domestic vehicles or what foreigners make as a daily wage?

[aligncare]

================================

Enjoyed it. 

Have folks in Napa Valley, and sis-in-law runs a winery.  Always come back with a case of Napa necter.  Went on the Skunk Train wine festival last fall and had a ball.  If you're ever near Inglenook, make sure you go to Francis Ford Coppola winery!

http://www.winemag.com/2012/08/06/francis-ford-coppola-from-feature-films-to-fine-wine/

My wife and I used to go to Paul Masson for jazz under the stars wine tasting, some big names, too ...man.

Again my apologies for interrupting the conversation