Why I Will Never Vote for Donald Trump

[Bigun]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/donald-trump-election-democrat/index.html

[Carling]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/politics/donald-trump-election-democrat/index.html

Reagan was a Democrat for years, converted, and within 2 years was campaigning for Goldwater.  Does that mean he wanted LBJ to win?  Four years later he ran for governor of CA as a GOP.  Does that mean he was a stalking horse for the Dem cadidate?

 How does this prove that Trump wants HRC to win?

[Longiron]

Reagan was a Democrat for years, converted, and within 2 years was campaigning for Goldwater.  Does that mean he wanted LBJ to win?  Four years later he ran for governor of CA as a GOP.  Does that mean he was a stalking horse for the Dem cadidate?

 How does this prove that Trump wants HRC to win?

Anti TRUMP folks have BLINDERS on and appealing to logic does not work. Notice they never attack or bash his positions but just bash. See if they go after the POSITIONS they are open to debate and most do not want that. AND never do they state their candidate of choice position on ANYTHING and how that will solve an issue. MUCH easier to BASH!

[libertybele]

A lot happens over the course of time and people change. I did a comparison years ago with McCain v. Hillary on issues at the time and found Hillary to be the more conservative between the two ... but there is no way I would vote for Hillary then or now.  I even at one point in time gave her some leeway on her responsibility in Benghazi; but as the facts unfolded and her involvement became even more evident; there is just no denying anymore how despicable this woman really is.

Trump's comments "Hillary's always surrounded herself with very good people. I think Hillary would do a good job" are haunting.  The people she surrounds herself are questionable. 

IF Trump becomes president, he can surround himself with all the very good people he wants, but ultimately the RESPONSIBILITY of the office of president and the decisions he makes fall in his lap. 

[Longiron]

A lot happens over the course of time and people change. I did a comparison years ago with McCain v. Hillary on issues at the time and found Hillary to be the more conservative between the two ... but there is no way I would vote for Hillary then or now.  I even at one point in time gave her some leeway on her responsibility in Benghazi; but as the facts unfolded and her involvement became even more evident; there is just no denying anymore how despicable this woman really is.

Trump's comments "Hillary's always surrounded herself with very good people. I think Hillary would do a good job" are haunting.  The people she surrounds herself are questionable. 

IF Trump becomes president, he can surround himself with all the very good people he wants, but ultimately the RESPONSIBILITY of the office of president and the decisions he makes fall in his lap.

Good Points and to make the case look at our current POTUS, Dumb and Dummer running the show.

[truth_seeker]

A lot happens over the course of time and people change. I did a comparison years ago with McCain v. Hillary on issues at the time and found Hillary to be the more conservative between the two ... but there is no way I would vote for Hillary then or now.  I even at one point in time gave her some leeway on her responsibility in Benghazi; but as the facts unfolded and her involvement became even more evident; there is just no denying anymore how despicable this woman really is.

Trump's comments "Hillary's always surrounded herself with very good people. I think Hillary would do a good job" are haunting.  The people she surrounds herself are questionable. 

IF Trump becomes president, he can surround himself with all the very good people he wants, but ultimately the RESPONSIBILITY of the office of president and the decisions he makes fall in his lap.

You really should post your comparison study, because I seriously doubt that your claims about Hillary vs. McCain are supportable.

[aligncare]

Part of the problem people are having with Trump is that he's a New Yorker. New Yorkers schmooze; they talk to each other on the busy streets and subways. It's really just a form of killing time between thoughts.

But, once Trump gets behind the doors of a negotiation, he's all business. His supporters aren't voting for his talking points; he has none. They're voting for the man, the consummate negotiator, the America-First patriot, the winner. (Or, the new American Hitler, to hear some folks talk)

[musiclady]

As I said, I have no debate or contention with you on who you will vote for.  It is none of my business.  The rest of the discussion is certainly a thread high-jack from the topic.

The thread topic is "Why I Will Never Vote for Donald Trump."

His lack of character and his liberal political positions are both part of my reasoning for that, and are therefore germane to the topic.

[Bigun]

Part of the problem people are having with Trump is that he's a New Yorker. New Yorkers schmooze; they talk to each other on the busy streets and subways. It's really just a form of killing time between thoughts.

But, once Trump gets behind the doors of a negotiation, he's all business. His supporters aren't voting for his talking points; he has none. They're voting for the man, the consummate negotiator, the America-First patriot, the winner. (Or, the new American Hitler, to hear some folks talk)

I'm not looking for and have no need of a negotiator! What I want is some one who will DEFEAT liberalism with malice!

[alicewonders]

Part of the problem people are having with Trump is that he's a New Yorker. New Yorkers schmooze; they talk to each other on the busy streets and subways. It's really just a form of killing time between thoughts.

But, once Trump gets behind the doors of a negotiation, he's all business. His supporters aren't voting for his talking points; he has none. They're voting for the man, the consummate negotiator, the America-First patriot, the winner. (Or, the new American Hitler, to hear some folks talk)

I can totally understand what you're saying and I must admit that Trump's style threw me for a loop at first.  As a Southerner - especially as a "redneck hillbilly" - it happens to me frequently when I venture to other parts of the country, especially up north. 

I remember the first time I visited NYC with one of my friends, we were standing in line somewhere to get a slice of pizza and these guys in line started talking to us - being very friendly and maybe a little flirty.  We spent the whole conversation back and forth, "What?"  "What did you say?"  "What do you mean?"  "Huh?"

It was really very funny!

[katzenjammer]

Part of the problem people are having with Trump is that he's a New Yorker. New Yorkers schmooze; they talk to each other on the busy streets and subways. It's really just a form of killing time between thoughts.

But, once Trump gets behind the doors of a negotiation, he's all business. His supporters aren't voting for his talking points; he has none. They're voting for the man, the consummate negotiator, the America-First patriot, the winner. (Or, the new American Hitler, to hear some folks talk)

Another aspect related to that is that prior to his entering this race, he was not a politician either in, or seeking, office.

He was a businessman constantly seeking to build upon the successes of all of his enterprises.  One aspect of that is getting ATTENTION.  Many of his "outlandish" statements on TeeVee and social media were designed to do just that.  And they worked.

He also has a certain sense of humor that I believe takes a while to understand; in many ways he is an acquired taste!   

[musiclady]

One thing that the Trump apologists and cheerleaders on this forum might be wise to take into account is the gut reaction of the average conservative Christian and political Conservative out there.....

I am in, and married into a very conservative Christian family, and the universal, unprovoked comment about Trump from everyone from the age of 90 down to their 30's is this....

"Donald Trump is a terrible person."

The 30% of you who don't care, or don't believe your lying eyes had better consider that a vast swath of moral people out there would never vote for a man they know to be despicable.

I may be standing alone on this forum, but I'm certainly not alone in the real world........ especially among Christians.

Character matters.

[EdinVA]

One thing that the Trump apologists and cheerleaders on this forum might be wise to take into account is the gut reaction of the average conservative Christian and political Conservative out there.....

I am in, and married into a very conservative Christian family, and the universal, unprovoked comment about Trump from everyone from the age of 90 down to their 30's is this....

"Donald Trump is a terrible person."

The 30% of you who don't care, or don't believe your lying eyes had better consider that a vast swath of moral people out there would never vote for a man they know to be despicable.

I may be standing alone on this forum, but I'm certainly not alone in the real world........ especially among Christians.

Character matters.

Good for you ML...
I am, and am married to Americans, also veterans, who consider their religion to be irrelevant to politics and will never cowtow to either the pope or islam.
Contrary to your insinuation, I am not immoral and consider you to be very judgmental about people you know very little about.

[musiclady]

Good for you ML...
I am, and am married to Americans, also veterans, who consider their religion to be irrelevant to politics and will never cowtow to either the pope or islam.
Contrary to your insinuation, I am not immoral and consider you to be very judgmental about people you know very little about.

I never even came close to insinuating you, or any one else who is a Trump cheerleader, is "immoral."

But several people on this forum have stated outright that Trump's immorality is irrelevant........ and they are very moral people.

I'm just making sure those people understand that there are many others who aren't so 'tolerant' of marital infidelity and lack of character.

[alicewonders]

I would say that I'm not electing a preacher to lead my country - I'm looking for a tough take-no-crap leader that will "make America great again". 

Everyone is free to vote their conscience and it will all come to a conclusion pretty soon.  Not putting anyone down for having a different opinion.  I'm a Christian too - I'm not feeling so great about having my character questioned because I support someone that I feel is the best able to turn the US Titanic around.

 

[mountaineer]

It does concern me that Trump may have cheated on his wife. Marriage is a covenant, a vow not to be taken lightly. How do I know he'll be honest about other things? Didn't that offend anyone about Bill Clinton?

Does that mean I'm "judging" him? Not at all. I don't know anything about his relationship with God. Has he repented? Don't know.

But saying that adultery is not a good thing and that it demonstrates some character flaws is not the same as being judgmental, any more than if we had proof he was a thief, murderer or drunkard. There are just some things a person shouldn't do, and if he does, he should repent of them. We're all sinners and we know it, Ed. It's not judgmental to say so.

[EdinVA]

I would say that I'm not electing a preacher to lead my country - I'm looking for a tough take-no-crap leader that will "make America great again". 

Everyone is free to vote their conscience and it will all come to a conclusion pretty soon.  Not putting anyone down for having a different opinion.  I'm a Christian too - I'm not feeling so great about having my character questioned because I support someone that I feel is the best able to turn the US Titanic around.

 

 

[musiclady]

I would say that I'm not electing a preacher to lead my country - I'm looking for a tough take-no-crap leader that will "make America great again". 

Everyone is free to vote their conscience and it will all come to a conclusion pretty soon.  Not putting anyone down for having a different opinion.  I'm a Christian too - I'm not feeling so great about having my character questioned because I support someone that I feel is the best able to turn the US Titanic around.

 

Your character is not being questioned, alice.  It's just that the character of a candidate is more important to a lot of people than it (apparently) is to you.  That's clearly your choice, and I know, from what I've seen here, that you are a moral woman with strong character.

But it is unfair to say that asking for moral character is the same as wanting to elect a preacher.

I want the President of a company or bank to be trustworthy.  I want the person who fixes my car to be trustworthy.  I expect character in my friends and family.

Asking that of the leader of the free world is not demanding some religious testimony.

It's asking for what should be expected in every person who is elected to serve.

And I don't think it should be summarily dismissed.

[EdinVA]

It does concern me that Trump may have cheated on his wife. Marriage is a covenant, a vow not to be taken lightly. How do I know he'll be honest about other things? Didn't that offend anyone about Bill Clinton?

Does that mean I'm "judging" him? Not at all. I don't know anything about his relationship with God. Has he repented? Don't know.

But saying that adultery is not a good thing and that it demonstrates some character flaws is not the same as being judgmental, any more than if we had proof he was a thief, murderer or drunkard. There are just some things a person shouldn't do, and if he does, he should repent of them. We're all sinners and we know it, Ed. It's not judgmental to say so.

Concerned, Yes/ disappointed, yes/ but offend, no.  I just don't like the clintons so nothing they do offends me, that is a personal assessment and they will never get into my head enough to offend me.
I was more angry at Billy for dragging his poor secretary thru that crap and forcing her to testify than I was offended by his actions.

[alicewonders]

Your character is not being questioned, alice.  It's just that the character of a candidate is more important to a lot of people than it (apparently) is to you.  That's clearly your choice, and I know, from what I've seen here, that you are a moral woman with strong character.

But it is unfair to say that asking for moral character is the same as wanting to elect a preacher.

I want the President of a company or bank to be trustworthy.  I want the person who fixes my car to be trustworthy.  I expect character in my friends and family.

Asking that of the leader of the free world is not demanding some religious testimony.

It's asking for what should be expected in every person who is elected to serve.

And I don't think it should be summarily dismissed.

Adultery is not something I approve of.  If I recall correctly, this was during his first marriage which was some time ago.  I've not heard that he is unfaithful to his current wife - like Bill Clinton most assuredly is.  Not excusing it at all, but it's not a deal-breaker for me at this time in history. 

When my house is on fire, I'm not going to question who is going to put the fire out.  I just want people on the job that can do it and help me keep my home.  That's the situation I feel we are in right now.  Let's put the fire out, otherwise nothing else matters. 

Character does matter, it's true - but taking a hatchet to the front door and dragging a big big hose into my living room and spraying water all over my antiques......might just save my home.  I can fix that damage, but I'm not sure we'll be able to fix the damage if the Democrats win again. 

People will vote their conscience - let's just hope we end up with someone that can actually win.

 

[musiclady]

Adultery is not something I approve of.  If I recall correctly, this was during his first marriage which was some time ago.  I've not heard that he is unfaithful to his current wife - like Bill Clinton most assuredly is.  Not excusing it at all, but it's not a deal-breaker for me at this time in history. 

When my house is on fire, I'm not going to question who is going to put the fire out.  I just want people on the job that can do it and help me keep my home.  That's the situation I feel we are in right now.  Let's put the fire out, otherwise nothing else matters. 

Character does matter, it's true - but taking a hatchet to the front door and dragging a big big hose into my living room and spraying water all over my antiques......might just save my home.  I can fix that damage, but I'm not sure we'll be able to fix the damage if the Democrats win again. 

People will vote their conscience - let's just hope we end up with someone that can actually win.

 

The problem with your parallel is the assumption that Donald Trump will put the fire out and not pour more gasoline around the room.

That's where we differ.

I'm not sure we can fix the damage if Donald Trump wins either.

[DCPatriot]

Your character is not being questioned, alice.  It's just that the character of a candidate is more important to a lot of people than it (apparently) is to you.  That's clearly your choice, and I know, from what I've seen here, that you are a moral woman with strong character.

But it is unfair to say that asking for moral character is the same as wanting to elect a preacher.

I want the President of a company or bank to be trustworthy.  I want the person who fixes my car to be trustworthy.  I expect character in my friends and family.

Asking that of the leader of the free world is not demanding some religious testimony.

It's asking for what should be expected in every person who is elected to serve.

And I don't think it should be summarily dismissed.

I love you both.  Dearly.

ML, I took your post to be a slam and an insult toward anybody the favors Donald Trump.  You even went so far as to call us, "cheerleaders"...another easily implied insult.

What makes it hard to want to give you any benefit of a doubt, is your reputation for saying exactly as you intended.  (That's a joke.  Sort of.)

Perhaps you should focus that contempt toward the candidate and not those of us who have been with him since Day One.

Whenever you list the character flaws that are game-changers for you, ...those that go against "[one's] Christian values", and call us "cheerleaders" instead of Trump supporters at the same time....well, I hope you can understand why it rubbed some of us the wrong way.

Peace. 

[aligncare]

Primary season. Meh.

[alicewonders]

The problem with your parallel is the assumption that Donald Trump will put the fire out and not pour more gasoline around the room.

That's where we differ.

I'm not sure we can fix the damage if Donald Trump wins either.

If I had any doubt that Trump doesn't love this country and earnestly want to make it the great nation it once was, I would not support him.  He will most assuredly do things I won't like, but I believe that the net effect of his leadership will restore our strength and turn our economy around. 

This idea that he is helping Hillary doesn't match his calling her and Bill out in a way that no "regular" politician has the courage to do.  He's not afraid of her and he's not taking a year out of his cushy life to help her. 

The idea that he's just in it "for him" doesn't ring true to me either - it's not like he's hard up for money to maintain his lavish lifestyle.  He's doing a pretty good job of that without having to run for president. 

He's crude, although I think he is mellowing on that as time goes on.

I've not seen him lose his temper at the debates, in fact, he usually stands back and lets the others duke it out with each other.

A lot of people are supporting him and have not wavered since he started running - that is passionate support - and that is what every candidate wants.  That translates into votes.

His appeal crosses over to moderate Democrats, blue-collar Democrats, low-info reality show audiences, blacks and a lot of legal immigrants.  Women like him, white males like him, New Yorkers like him.  How many other candidates have this wide range of appeal?  I love Ted Cruz, but he is not going to get a lot of crossover support. 

After the first few primaries, we're going to have a pretty good idea who is going to win the nomination.  I know most of us here will support whoever that is because most of us here love our country - and I will say right now - that even though I have disagreements with every one of our candidates - I have no doubt whatsoever that every one of them loves their country.

 

[musiclady]

I love you both.  Dearly.

ML, I took your post to be a slam and an insult toward anybody the favors Donald Trump.  You even went so far as to call us, "cheerleaders"...another easily implied insult.

What makes it hard to want to give you any benefit of a doubt, is your reputation for saying exactly as you intended.  (That's a joke.  Sort of.)

Perhaps you should focus that contempt toward the candidate and not those of us who have been with him since Day One.

Whenever you list the character flaws that are game-changers for you, ...those that go against "[one's] Christian values", and call us "cheerleaders" instead of Trump supporters at the same time....well, I hope you can understand why it rubbed some of us the wrong way.

Peace.

I have plenty of contempt for the candidate, DC.  That's what I'm talking about.  And that's exactly what I've been focusing on here.

Trump's lack of character.

Sorry if you were insulted by the "cheerleader" comment.  It seems that it's exactly what's going on here.

There are a lot of really nasty things being said about those of us who don't like Trump, so be careful that you try to see things with both eyes open.  I've been very gentle with the people I respect........... like you, alice, katz............ I respect you all a lot.

Even if you do carry pom poms around with you.