Author Topic: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares  (Read 9701 times)

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Online DCPatriot

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2015, 12:32:35 am »
I watched it. Trump disingenuously brought up his own denomination so that he could bring up Carson's.  Nobody except Trump seems to care what religion anyone follows.  There was no "context" to Trump's remarks.  He took a shot at Carson but will never admit it.

He clearly states beginning at the 34 second mark that ...paraphrased....others of other faiths can say whatever the hell they want to, but that this crap about no manger scenes, and being insulted when somebody says Merry Christmas...the entire PC culture which has overtaken our society can go to hell.

He's going to say it loudly, and frequently.  And piss be upon them that don't like it.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #126 on: October 26, 2015, 12:42:33 am »
He clearly states beginning at the 34 second mark that ...paraphrased....others of other faiths can say whatever the hell they want to, but that this crap about no manger scenes, and being insulted when somebody says Merry Christmas...the entire PC culture which has overtaken our society can go to hell.

He's going to say it loudly, and frequently.  And piss be upon them that don't like it.

I'm sorry. I got this confused with something else I saw.

I don't really care about this whole Christmas nonsense.  Happy Holidays (Holy Day) expresses the sentiment just as well as Merry Christmas.

But I don't want any branch of any government telling people what they can and cannot say.   As someone upthread said, you work in an area with lots of non-Christians, it's only common courtesy to respect their point of view.

My ego does not require me to insist on a particular form of holiday greeting.  To make this some kind of political issue seems silly.

But that's just me.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #127 on: October 26, 2015, 12:46:11 am »
Give me a calculating Statesmen,  a Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Winston Churchill every time.

Well, if you will dig 'em up and get them to run, they have my vote...

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #128 on: October 26, 2015, 12:50:04 am »
I'm sorry. I got this confused with something else I saw.

I don't really care about this whole Christmas nonsense.  Happy Holidays (Holy Day) expresses the sentiment just as well as Merry Christmas.

But I don't want any branch of any government telling people what they can and cannot say.   As someone upthread said, you work in an area with lots of non-Christians, it's only common courtesy to respect their point of view.

My ego does not require me to insist on a particular form of holiday greeting.  To make this some kind of political issue seems silly.

But that's just me.

And you're absolutely right, Sink.

But I believe his larger point was that he was empathetic with Christians being maligned and marginalized....and he was of course, pandering to them at the same time.   

Who doesn't pander in a political campaign?   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #129 on: October 26, 2015, 12:51:04 am »
That's your opinion Sink - others don't agree with you and their voices deserve to be heard too.  It's not a one-way street.  Most of us try to be civil in our tone and not make it personal, but sometimes it becomes like....shall I say.....mass hysteria? 

The video in question discounted the claims made by many, but I haven't heard anyone say they watched it and realized they may have jumped the gun.




"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is.

Please.

And since Trump can't seem to do it himself, if you want to try and convince some of us haters, perhaps you could start explaining to us in detail why anyone should think seriously about Trump as the head of the government executive.  Because quite honestly, I have come to the conclusion that having business experience is useful, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to make a great, or even a good, leader.  Cases in point include, for example, Tom Steyer, who made billions as a hedge fund manager and is now one of the primary financial enablers of the eco-fascist side of the dem/lib/prog machine.  Then there are the founders of Moveon.org, who were prototypical entrepreneurs, having founded a software company, Berkeley Systems.  Then there are any number of other Wall Street types who routinely fund dem/lib/prog projects notwithstanding that they've made their bones in free market capitalism.  That should amply demonstrate that there is no necessary connection between business experience/expertise and republican values and, in fact, that there is often a vast gulf between the two:  one would have thought that if anyone understood the importance of the values of individual freedom (economic as well as political), private property, and even-handed enforcement of contracts, that the founders of Moveon.org would have been such people, but instead we end up with a bunch of statist fascists who would deny to everyone else precisely the freedom that allowed them to succeed.

In fact, if one observes the behavior of larger businesses, one should come away with a fundamental suspicion about how large business relates to the core values of individual liberty, private property, contract, and free markets because it is the large businesses that have the ability to engage in crony capitalism, and observation confirms that this is often the case.  Just look at Citibank; but for the politicians it owns, it would have most likely been put into bankruptcy or receivership years ago.

Which brings up the following observations regarding Trump:  the fact that Trump may be a super great real estate magnate has no substantive bearing on his ability to be a political leader and, more to the point, is no guarantee whatsoever that he has any allegiance to, or even understanding of, the core republican/conservative values of individual freedom, private property, and contract.  Furthermore, his experience raises affirmative doubts about his allegiance to those values because (a) he has in fact demonstrated a preference for the use of government power to choose winners and losers in his approval of the use of eminent domain to benefit private developers at the expense of individual homeowners, and (b) his industry - especially in New York City - is rife with crony capitalism, where success is based as much, if not more, on how politically connected you are as on whatever innate skill you may have.

On the other hand, the one thing that is painfully missing from Trump's resume is actual governing experience.  Managing a significant government executive is substantially different from managing even a substantial business enterprise.  If you're the chief executive officer, you're the boss; if you disagree with someone in the business you fire them.  If you're the president, you may be able to control who's on your cabinet, but you have no control over Congress, and you cannot simply govern without the cooperation of Congress.  Notwithstanding that the present and prior few Congresses have not been able to force their policies on Obama, Obama has also not managed to score any significant legislative victories once the DNC lost absolute control of Congress in the 2010 elections.

And it is that lack of experience, and the fact that so far several very competent individuals with very good experience at running an executive office have dropped out for lack of support from rank and file republicans that is so distressing.  I find it utterly flabbergasting that Scott Walker has dropped out for lack of support from republicans.  Apparently, being able to pull teeth from public sector unions in an extremely blue state counts as nothing against the ability to read polls and focus group reports and then start telling certain people what they want to hear.  The fact of the matter is, it's extremely easy to say you're against illegal immigration, or whatever, and extremely hard to beat the unions at their own game, and so as far as I'm concerned the former is more valuable than the latter only in looking glass land.

Online libertybele

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #130 on: October 26, 2015, 12:54:49 am »
He clearly states beginning at the 34 second mark that ...paraphrased....others of other faiths can say whatever the hell they want to, but that this crap about no manger scenes, and being insulted when somebody says Merry Christmas...the entire PC culture which has overtaken our society can go to hell.

He's going to say it loudly, and frequently.  And piss be upon them that don't like it.

I want to see "Merry Christmas"  If anyone can have us wishing each other "Merry Christmas" rather than Happy Holidays in the store, it will be Trump!  I wholeheartedly agree ... the PC culture which has infested our society needs to go.

I am proud to be a "straight" White-American Christian who takes pride in the United States of America which is the greatest country in the world with the greatest document ever written; the Constitution.  GOD Bless America!  I know it's a little early, but "MERRY CHRISTMAS" everyone!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #131 on: October 26, 2015, 12:57:44 am »

"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is.

Please.

And since Trump can't seem to do it himself, if you want to try and convince some of us haters, perhaps you could start explaining to us in detail why anyone should think seriously about Trump as the head of the government executive.  Because quite honestly, I have come to the conclusion that having business experience is useful, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to make a great, or even a good, leader.  Cases in point include, for example, Tom Steyer, who made billions as a hedge fund manager and is now one of the primary financial enablers of the eco-fascist side of the dem/lib/prog machine.  Then there are the founders of Moveon.org, who were prototypical entrepreneurs, having founded a software company, Berkeley Systems.  Then there are any number of other Wall Street types who routinely fund dem/lib/prog projects notwithstanding that they've made their bones in free market capitalism.  That should amply demonstrate that there is no necessary connection between business experience/expertise and republican values and, in fact, that there is often a vast gulf between the two:  one would have thought that if anyone understood the importance of the values of individual freedom (economic as well as political), private property, and even-handed enforcement of contracts, that the founders of Moveon.org would have been such people, but instead we end up with a bunch of statist fascists who would deny to everyone else precisely the freedom that allowed them to succeed.

In fact, if one observes the behavior of larger businesses, one should come away with a fundamental suspicion about how large business relates to the core values of individual liberty, private property, contract, and free markets because it is the large businesses that have the ability to engage in crony capitalism, and observation confirms that this is often the case.  Just look at Citibank; but for the politicians it owns, it would have most likely been put into bankruptcy or receivership years ago.

Which brings up the following observations regarding Trump:  the fact that Trump may be a super great real estate magnate has no substantive bearing on his ability to be a political leader and, more to the point, is no guarantee whatsoever that he has any allegiance to, or even understanding of, the core republican/conservative values of individual freedom, private property, and contract.  Furthermore, his experience raises affirmative doubts about his allegiance to those values because (a) he has in fact demonstrated a preference for the use of government power to choose winners and losers in his approval of the use of eminent domain to benefit private developers at the expense of individual homeowners, and (b) his industry - especially in New York City - is rife with crony capitalism, where success is based as much, if not more, on how politically connected you are as on whatever innate skill you may have.

On the other hand, the one thing that is painfully missing from Trump's resume is actual governing experience.  Managing a significant government executive is substantially different from managing even a substantial business enterprise.  If you're the chief executive officer, you're the boss; if you disagree with someone in the business you fire them.  If you're the president, you may be able to control who's on your cabinet, but you have no control over Congress, and you cannot simply govern without the cooperation of Congress.  Notwithstanding that the present and prior few Congresses have not been able to force their policies on Obama, Obama has also not managed to score any significant legislative victories once the DNC lost absolute control of Congress in the 2010 elections.

And it is that lack of experience, and the fact that so far several very competent individuals with very good experience at running an executive office have dropped out for lack of support from rank and file republicans that is so distressing.  I find it utterly flabbergasting that Scott Walker has dropped out for lack of support from republicans.  Apparently, being able to pull teeth from public sector unions in an extremely blue state counts as nothing against the ability to read polls and focus group reports and then start telling certain people what they want to hear.  The fact of the matter is, it's extremely easy to say you're against illegal immigration, or whatever, and extremely hard to beat the unions at their own game, and so as far as I'm concerned the former is more valuable than the latter only in looking glass land.

Thank you, Oceander for taking time to respond.

What we're doing however is stacking Donald Trump and his celebrity reach against every other declared candidate.

It's no contest, IMO.   Nobody would be able to take on the Clinton machine and their compliant media.   Nobody.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online DCPatriot

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #132 on: October 26, 2015, 12:58:40 am »
I want to see "Merry Christmas"  If anyone can have us wishing each other "Merry Christmas" rather than Happy Holidays in the store, it will be Trump!  I wholeheartedly agree ... the PC culture which has infested our society needs to go.

I am proud to be a "straight" White-American Christian who takes pride in the United States of America which is the greatest country in the world with the greatest document ever written; the Constitution.  GOD Bless America!  I know it's a little early, but "MERRY CHRISTMAS" everyone!

 :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #133 on: October 26, 2015, 01:07:40 am »

"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is.
great post

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #134 on: October 26, 2015, 01:10:02 am »
Thank you, Oceander for taking time to respond.

What we're doing however is stacking Donald Trump and his celebrity reach against every other declared candidate.

It's no contest, IMO.   Nobody would be able to take on the Clinton machine and their compliant media.   Nobody.

Being able to take down Dr. Carson is absolutely, utterly irrelevant to whether Trump can take down Clinton.  That's so bad it's not even an excuse for Trump.

And even if he could, why would I want to replace one big-statist for another?  What we know of Donald Trump - as opposed to what he's been saying about himself - gives me very little comfort that when it came to actually governing he would be different at all from Clinton.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 01:12:02 am by Oceander »

Offline alicewonders

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #135 on: October 26, 2015, 01:11:21 am »

"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is.

Please.

And since Trump can't seem to do it himself, if you want to try and convince some of us haters, perhaps you could start explaining to us in detail why anyone should think seriously about Trump as the head of the government executive.  Because quite honestly, I have come to the conclusion that having business experience is useful, it is neither necessary nor sufficient to make a great, or even a good, leader.  Cases in point include, for example, Tom Steyer, who made billions as a hedge fund manager and is now one of the primary financial enablers of the eco-fascist side of the dem/lib/prog machine.  Then there are the founders of Moveon.org, who were prototypical entrepreneurs, having founded a software company, Berkeley Systems.  Then there are any number of other Wall Street types who routinely fund dem/lib/prog projects notwithstanding that they've made their bones in free market capitalism.  That should amply demonstrate that there is no necessary connection between business experience/expertise and republican values and, in fact, that there is often a vast gulf between the two:  one would have thought that if anyone understood the importance of the values of individual freedom (economic as well as political), private property, and even-handed enforcement of contracts, that the founders of Moveon.org would have been such people, but instead we end up with a bunch of statist fascists who would deny to everyone else precisely the freedom that allowed them to succeed.

In fact, if one observes the behavior of larger businesses, one should come away with a fundamental suspicion about how large business relates to the core values of individual liberty, private property, contract, and free markets because it is the large businesses that have the ability to engage in crony capitalism, and observation confirms that this is often the case.  Just look at Citibank; but for the politicians it owns, it would have most likely been put into bankruptcy or receivership years ago.

Which brings up the following observations regarding Trump:  the fact that Trump may be a super great real estate magnate has no substantive bearing on his ability to be a political leader and, more to the point, is no guarantee whatsoever that he has any allegiance to, or even understanding of, the core republican/conservative values of individual freedom, private property, and contract.  Furthermore, his experience raises affirmative doubts about his allegiance to those values because (a) he has in fact demonstrated a preference for the use of government power to choose winners and losers in his approval of the use of eminent domain to benefit private developers at the expense of individual homeowners, and (b) his industry - especially in New York City - is rife with crony capitalism, where success is based as much, if not more, on how politically connected you are as on whatever innate skill you may have.

On the other hand, the one thing that is painfully missing from Trump's resume is actual governing experience.  Managing a significant government executive is substantially different from managing even a substantial business enterprise.  If you're the chief executive officer, you're the boss; if you disagree with someone in the business you fire them.  If you're the president, you may be able to control who's on your cabinet, but you have no control over Congress, and you cannot simply govern without the cooperation of Congress.  Notwithstanding that the present and prior few Congresses have not been able to force their policies on Obama, Obama has also not managed to score any significant legislative victories once the DNC lost absolute control of Congress in the 2010 elections.

And it is that lack of experience, and the fact that so far several very competent individuals with very good experience at running an executive office have dropped out for lack of support from rank and file republicans that is so distressing.  I find it utterly flabbergasting that Scott Walker has dropped out for lack of support from republicans.  Apparently, being able to pull teeth from public sector unions in an extremely blue state counts as nothing against the ability to read polls and focus group reports and then start telling certain people what they want to hear.  The fact of the matter is, it's extremely easy to say you're against illegal immigration, or whatever, and extremely hard to beat the unions at their own game, and so as far as I'm concerned the former is more valuable than the latter only in looking glass land.

I'm not going to engage in a debate on Trump's qualifications - he is just as qualified as a neurosurgeon or a CEO of Hewlett Packard.  I'm as distressed as anyone that Perry and Walker dropped out so soon - that the guys with actual governing experience are not catching on AT ALL! 

I'm saying that when I see people launching nasty attacks on Trump, based on some questionable out-of-context quotes and videos - and I see things differently - I'm going to speak up.  I'm going to try real hard not to call anyone crazy or to malign them personally - but if I see someone do it to me, or someone else - I'm going to get riled up about it. 

Don't act like it's just one side that engages - no flippin' way!

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline EdinVA

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #136 on: October 26, 2015, 01:13:54 am »
I want to see "Merry Christmas"  If anyone can have us wishing each other "Merry Christmas" rather than Happy Holidays in the store, it will be Trump!  I wholeheartedly agree ... the PC culture which has infested our society needs to go.

I am proud to be a "straight" White-American Christian who takes pride in the United States of America which is the greatest country in the world with the greatest document ever written; the Constitution.  GOD Bless America!  I know it's a little early, but "MERRY CHRISTMAS" everyone!

Trump may not be able to stop this PC crap but at least he will make use of the bully pulpit and push back...

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #137 on: October 26, 2015, 01:15:11 am »
I'm not going to engage in a debate on Trump's qualifications - he is just as qualified as a neurosurgeon or a CEO of Hewlett Packard.  I'm as distressed as anyone that Perry and Walker dropped out so soon - that the guys with actual governing experience are not catching on AT ALL! 

I'm saying that when I see people launching nasty attacks on Trump, based on some questionable out-of-context quotes and videos - and I see things differently - I'm going to speak up.  I'm going to try real hard not to call anyone crazy or to malign them personally - but if I see someone do it to me, or someone else - I'm going to get riled up about it. 

Don't act like it's just one side that engages - no flippin' way!



You're not going to engage in a debate on Trump's qualifications?  Seriously?  That stuns me even more so than the support otherwise intelligent republicans/conservatives have given to Trump.

What point is there to discussing Trump other than debating his qualifications?  In fact, it seems to me that the whole complaint against us by the Trumpistas - including you - is that we were just "hating" on him and weren't willing to consider his qualifications.  Well, here I am, I'm considering his qualifications and I find them wanting, wanting in a very disturbing way.

If you're now expressly rejecting any discussion of Trump's qualifications, then you're essentially saying that the only thing you're interested in is calling us names.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #138 on: October 26, 2015, 01:16:34 am »
Being able to take down Dr. Carson is absolutely, utterly irrelevant to whether Trump can take down Clinton.  That's so bad it's not even an excuse for Trump.

And even if he could, why would I want to replace one big-statist for another?  What we know of Donald Trump - as opposed to what he's been saying about himself - gives me very little comfort that when it came to actually governing he would be different at all from Clinton.

This IS a race - and no candidate can take Hillary! down until they win this race.  If Carson is coming up in Trump's rearview mirror - what do you think he's going to do - if he wants to WIN?  Granted, that is a novel concept for the GOP when it comes to the presidency lately. 

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #139 on: October 26, 2015, 01:22:09 am »
This IS a race - and no candidate can take Hillary! down until they win this race.  If Carson is coming up in Trump's rearview mirror - what do you think he's going to do - if he wants to WIN?  Granted, that is a novel concept for the GOP when it comes to the presidency lately. 



What would I want Trump to do?  What I would want every candidate to do (and which, by the way, is distressingly absent from the others as well) is distinguish himself from the pack by demonstrating in specific detail how he would do things - so I can decide for myself whether he would be likely to do better than anyone else - and by explaining to the general electorate why republican values are American values and why they are a far better guarantor of individual freedom than are democrat/lib/prog values.

What I don't find in the least bit useful is beating up on the other candidates in a personal way.  Whether Trump is a real bona fide Presbyterian (and assuming presbyterianism is still something other than just another form of liberalism) or whether Seventh Day Adventists are not to be respected as such is utterly, absolutely, without any doubt, etc, etc, etc, irrelevant to whether a candidate can convince the general electorate to vote for her or him over Clinton.

So not only does Trump's own experience give me grave doubts, doubts which neither you, nor he, can allay, but his desire to fling ad hominems at a fundamentally good person - Dr. Carson - gives me even more doubts about his fitness for office.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 01:23:57 am by Oceander »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #140 on: October 26, 2015, 01:25:56 am »
I want to see "Merry Christmas"  If anyone can have us wishing each other "Merry Christmas" rather than Happy Holidays in the store, it will be Trump!  I wholeheartedly agree ... the PC culture which has infested our society needs to go.

I am proud to be a "straight" White-American Christian who takes pride in the United States of America which is the greatest country in the world with the greatest document ever written; the Constitution.  GOD Bless America!  I know it's a little early, but "MERRY CHRISTMAS" everyone!

I don't want Donald Trump "having us" do anything. And neither should you, as a conservative. You should do what you want.

Trump is very authoritarian.  That's the way he operates in his businesses, no doubt. In government, you need cooperation or you get stiffed.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online libertybele

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #141 on: October 26, 2015, 01:30:35 am »
"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is."...

Perhaps the GOP establishment needs to learn from some very serious lessons of the past.  McCain and Romney were very much considered "establishment" candidates and gave the GOP two terms of Obama.  The same thing will happen again only this time resulting in a liberal criminal or a socialist in the White House.

I can't count the number of times where I have been accused of being a "hater" because of my conservative principles and values and love of the Constitution.  Imagine ... being silenced and ridiculed because one happens to believe in the very principles and values upon which this country was founded...yes...for years conservatives have been ridiculed for telling it like it is by those who continue to bury their heads in the sand. At the end of the day ... IF the GOP establishment is allowed to continue in the same direction, we WILL not only lose our party but our country.  It is time that the GOP establishment quits telling conservatives to shut up and  open their eyes and ears for a change and actually see and hear what is going on.

Peace!

Ted Cruz 2016   Reigniting the Promise of AMERICA!!!!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #142 on: October 26, 2015, 01:33:00 am »
"and their voices deserve to be heard too"???  That's about all we do hear.  The rest of us are dismissed as haters and told to shut up because we're RINOs who are in hock to the GOP establishment and too afraid to accept someone who tells it like it is."...

Perhaps the GOP establishment needs to learn from some very serious lessons of the past.  McCain and Romney were very much considered "establishment" candidates and gave the GOP two terms of Obama.  The same thing will happen again only this time resulting in a liberal criminal or a socialist in the White House.

I can't count the number of times where I have been accused of being a "hater" because of my conservative principles and values and love of the Constitution.  Imagine ... being silenced and ridiculed because one happens to believe in the very principles and values upon which this country was founded...yes...for years conservatives have been ridiculed for telling it like it is by those who continue to bury their heads in the sand. At the end of the day ... IF the GOP establishment is allowed to continue in the same direction, we WILL not only lose our party but our country.  It is time that the GOP establishment quits telling conservatives to shut up and  open their eyes and ears for a change and actually see and hear what is going on.

Peace!

Ted Cruz 2016   Reigniting the Promise of AMERICA!!!!

No.  It was the American electorate, all those fair weather "conservative" friends who refused to vote because McCain and Romney didn't pass their single-issue litmus test, who gave Obama two terms.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #143 on: October 26, 2015, 01:33:55 am »
What would I want Trump to do?  What I would want every candidate to do (and which, by the way, is distressingly absent from the others as well) is distinguish himself from the pack by demonstrating in specific detail how he would do things - so I can decide for myself whether he would be likely to do better than anyone else - and by explaining to the general electorate why republican values are American values and why they are a far better guarantor of individual freedom than are democrat/lib/prog values.

What I don't find in the least bit useful is beating up on the other candidates in a personal way.  Whether Trump is a real bona fide Presbyterian (and assuming presbyterianism is still something other than just another form of liberalism) or whether Seventh Day Adventists are not to be respected as such is utterly, absolutely, without any doubt, etc, etc, etc, irrelevant to whether a candidate can convince the general electorate to vote for her or him over Clinton.

So not only does Trump's own experience give me grave doubts, doubts which neither you, nor he, can allay, but his desire to fling ad hominems at a fundamentally good person - Dr. Carson - gives me even more doubts about his fitness for office.

A lot of people dislike Trump for his shrewd ability to read the public - today's voters are used to reality shows and celebrities.  Like it or not, Carson's religion may very well be a sticking point for a lot of people.  You yourself have shown a disdain for certain social conservatives that try to tell the rest of us how to live.  I have heard people mock people who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago in one week's time.  If I was a candidate running against someone that shared those beliefs - I'd probably want the word to get out too.  Better now than later. 

Frankly, there are things that make me uneasy about Ben Carson - and here's another crazy thought of mine.  The "establishment" wants to get rid of Trump and they've made no secret of it.  It's obvious to me that Carly was used to try to take him down in the big kid's debate after he said that about her face.  She was given a forum to take him down - but when it didn't work - she was pretty much cast aside.  Carson is the new guy to take Trump down and Trump isn't going to stand idly by and let it happen if he can help it.

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Carling

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #144 on: October 26, 2015, 01:48:14 am »
What would I want Trump to do?  What I would want every candidate to do (and which, by the way, is distressingly absent from the others as well) is distinguish himself from the pack by demonstrating in specific detail how he would do things - so I can decide for myself whether he would be likely to do better than anyone else - and by explaining to the general electorate why republican values are American values and why they are a far better guarantor of individual freedom than are democrat/lib/prog values.

What I don't find in the least bit useful is beating up on the other candidates in a personal way.  Whether Trump is a real bona fide Presbyterian (and assuming presbyterianism is still something other than just another form of liberalism) or whether Seventh Day Adventists are not to be respected as such is utterly, absolutely, without any doubt, etc, etc, etc, irrelevant to whether a candidate can convince the general electorate to vote for her or him over Clinton.

So not only does Trump's own experience give me grave doubts, doubts which neither you, nor he, can allay, but his desire to fling ad hominems at a fundamentally good person - Dr. Carson - gives me even more doubts about his fitness for office.

Trump has put out position papers on immigration and the tax code in the last month.

That you haven't read them is on you, and not on Trump.
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
-----------------------------------------------

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #145 on: October 26, 2015, 01:49:59 am »
A lot of people dislike Trump for his shrewd ability to read the public - today's voters are used to reality shows and celebrities.  Like it or not, Carson's religion may very well be a sticking point for a lot of people.  You yourself have shown a disdain for certain social conservatives that try to tell the rest of us how to live.  I have heard people mock people who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago in one week's time.  If I was a candidate running against someone that shared those beliefs - I'd probably want the word to get out too.  Better now than later. 

Frankly, there are things that make me uneasy about Ben Carson - and here's another crazy thought of mine.  The "establishment" wants to get rid of Trump and they've made no secret of it.  It's obvious to me that Carly was used to try to take him down in the big kid's debate after he said that about her face.  She was given a forum to take him down - but when it didn't work - she was pretty much cast aside.  Carson is the new guy to take Trump down and Trump isn't going to stand idly by and let it happen if he can help it.




Amazing how you condemned us as "haters" for simply expressing dislike for Trump but not saying why, and now you condemn me for stepping up to the plate and saying why, and try to dodge the issue by now claiming that I dislike Trump for being able to read the public!  And that right after I just said that it bothers me that no one in the GOP seems to be able to explain why republican values are better values to the public.  In other words, what I want is precisely someone who can read the public.  All I want in addition is someone who (a) has a demonstrated adherence to republican/conservative values, and (b) the ability - and willingness - to explain those values to the public he can read instead of bullying people like Dr. Carson who are supposed to be on the same political side.

Get a grip.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #146 on: October 26, 2015, 01:52:23 am »
Trump has put out position papers on immigration and the tax code in the last month.

That you haven't read them is on you, and not on Trump.

Yes he has.  I have read some of them,, enough  to know that neither  will ever see the light of  day in Congress
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #147 on: October 26, 2015, 01:53:09 am »
Trump has put out position papers on immigration and the tax code in the last month.

That you haven't read them is on you, and not on Trump.

Yeah!!!  And for enough money I too can hire ghost writers to come up with position papers.  Doesn't mean diddly squat if I don't expound on them and develop a full political platform that encompasses them.

Here's the billion dollar question (we all know Trump is too "big" to go for a measly 64-dollar question):  why isn't he focusing on explaining to the rest of us why those positions matter instead of picking on Dr. Carson and claiming that he's going to make all of us sing Merry Christmas if he's elected?

Perhaps I haven't read them because, for all I know, he hasn't read them either since he seems more interested in playing school yard bully than actual adult candidate.


Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #148 on: October 26, 2015, 01:53:48 am »
What a shame...two posters who have been friends for years... **nononono*

One decided to take out the long knives today.

A friend doesn't level the kind of attacks I've been subjected to.   Not for loyalty to some political candidate.

It's a matter of priorities, and I guess I'm down the list for this 'friend.'

btw, thanks for the Ignore feature.  It's a God send.  It's saving me from seeing any more of the crap being flung at me today.  I'll let him calm down and try to remember who he's been attacking with this foul garbage, and try again later to see if sanity has returned to this previously decent man.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Oceander

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Re: 'Merry Christmas,' Trump declares
« Reply #149 on: October 26, 2015, 01:55:30 am »
One decided to take out the long knives today.

A friend doesn't level the kind of attacks I've been subjected to.   Not for loyalty to some political candidate.

It's a matter of priorities, and I guess I'm down the list for this 'friend.'

btw, thanks for the Ignore feature.  It's a God send.  It's saving me from seeing any more of the crap being flung at me today.  I'll let him calm down and try to remember who he's been attacking with this foul garbage, and try again later to see if sanity has returned to this previously decent man.


"Ignore" - who knew!  Right!