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Online mystery-ak

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The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« on: September 16, 2015, 04:15:18 pm »
https://ricochet.com/debate-supposed/

 The Debate We Were Supposed to Have

Jon Gabriel, Ed.
September 15, 2015 at 2:00 pm

The 2016 election was the grand battle conservatives had been hoping for since Ronald Reagan left the Oval Office. The roster of candidates was to be a who’s-who of smart, proven, center-right leadership.

Scott Walker would show how his gutsy union changes transformed a blue state, while Bobby Jindal shared how his school choice revolution changed Louisiana. Rick Perry could press his breathtaking jobs record and tell us how to “make Washington inconsequential in our lives.”

From the Senate, Tea Party constitutionalist Ted Cruz would bring the intellect, while Florida’s Marco Rubio brought the heart. Add Rand Paul to energize the growing conservatarian wing, and the trio would appeal to the young, minorities, and independents.

Moderate Chris Christie would reach out to northeastern voters once considered out of reach for the GOP while Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson added an outsiders’ perspective from the worlds of technology and medicine.

No more settling for uninspiring match-ups like Mitt Romney vs. Herman Cain, John McCain vs. Mike Huckabee, or Dubya vs. Alan Keyes. 2016 was going to be about Big Ideas on turning around a debt-ridden, war-weary, stagnant superpower. A policy wonk’s dream.

Even better, Republicans could finally laugh at the Democratic primary featuring a corrupt Clinton, a socialist Sanders, and a Bidenesque Biden. Imagine the contrast of tired old Democrats yelling about microaggressions and wiped email servers, as fresh, dynamic Republicans addressed high-level social and economic policy.

It would be obvious to the electorate that Republicans were the only party with the vision, with the heart, and with the intelligence to lead the nation.

Instead, here are the political headlines of Summer 2015:

    Trump on McCain: “I like people who weren’t captured”
    Trump on Megyn Kelly: “There was blood coming out of her… wherever.”
    Trump: Rick Perry “should be forced to take an IQ test” before debate
    Trump is going to war with Scott Walker after being called “DumbDumb” by one of his supporters
    Trump on Fiorina: “Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?”
    Trump on Heidi Klum: “She’s no longer a 10.”

These are the lofty policy debates dominating the presidential election of a 21st century superpower. We aren’t discussing America’s $18.4 trillion national debt and our insolvent social programs. The stagnant economy and an expansionist China, Russia, and Islamic State. Burning cities at home and burning countries abroad.

Instead we’re trading GIFs of a reality show star on “The Tonight Show,” giggling about menstruation, and wondering if the most impressive GOP field in a generation are a bunch of “dummies” or if they’re a bunch of “losers.”

These are serious times. We are not a serious people.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2015, 04:24:23 pm »
It would be obvious to the electorate that Republicans were the only party with the vision, with the heart, and with the intelligence to lead the nation.

Instead, here are the political headlines of Summer 2015:

    Trump on McCain: “I like people who weren’t captured”
    Trump on Megyn Kelly: “There was blood coming out of her… wherever.”
    Trump: Rick Perry “should be forced to take an IQ test” before debate
    Trump is going to war with Scott Walker after being called “DumbDumb” by one of his supporters
    Trump on Fiorina: “Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?”
    Trump on Heidi Klum: “She’s no longer a 10.”

These are the lofty policy debates dominating the presidential election of a 21st century superpower. We aren’t discussing America’s $18.4 trillion national debt and our insolvent social programs. The stagnant economy and an expansionist China, Russia, and Islamic State. Burning cities at home and burning countries abroad.

Instead we’re trading GIFs of a reality show star on “The Tonight Show,” giggling about menstruation, and wondering if the most impressive GOP field in a generation are a bunch of “dummies” or if they’re a bunch of “losers.”

These are serious times. We are not a serious people.

I'm sure it was just a coinkidink that it happened this way.

The msm doesn't 'create' the news... it only reports it... right?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline aligncare

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2015, 04:40:41 pm »
The article mentioned Trump, so I can talk about Trump. Right?

Trump rocketed to front runner status because of one thing, and one thing only. Any guesses what that is?

He began his campaign on the issue of illegal immigration. That's all it took to bring massive numbers of Americans out to support his candidacy. Especially those in border states who have been hardest hit by illegal immigration.

It's not pediatric brain surgery.

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2015, 04:43:35 pm »
Let's see whose quotes (and which quotes) dominate tomorrow's press coverage of tonight's CNN debate.

I am apprehensive, but who knows? A real debate might actually break out. Or, it might go all WWF/Jerry Springer on us.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2015, 05:11:32 pm »
Trump rocketed to front runner status because of one thing, and one thing only. Any guesses what that is?

He began his campaign on the issue of illegal immigration. That's all it took to bring massive numbers of Americans out to support his candidacy. Especially those in border states who have been hardest hit by illegal immigration.

Many of the GOP candidates had good positions on illegal immigration but didn't get the "Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump..." media drone.  It was the media's 'Trump' saturation that got him to front-runner status... not his immigration policy.  That policy changed several times without much criticism as the meme was being tested to see where the biggest reaction-point with voters really was.  The media would not have allowed any other candidate to get away with that many changes.

If you can't see that the media has deliberately 'manufactured' the Trump phenomenon, you'll never be able to recognize how manipulated your beliefs about reality really are, and to ask yourself the next logical question.

Why is the media doing this?

Wake up people...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

bkepley

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2015, 05:15:08 pm »
Many of the GOP candidates had good positions on illegal immigration but didn't get the "Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump..." media drone.  It was the media's 'Trump' saturation that got him to front-runner status... not his immigration policy.  That policy changed several times without much criticism as the meme was being tested to see where the biggest reaction-point with voters really was.  The media would not have allowed any other candidate to get away with that many changes.

If you can't see that the media has deliberately 'manufactured' the Trump phenomenon, you'll never be able to recognize how manipulated your beliefs about reality really are, and to ask yourself the next logical question.

Why is the media doing this?

Wake up people...

OK I bite. ...why is the media doing this?  I guess to make money?

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2015, 05:18:33 pm »
OK I bite. ...why is the media doing this?  I guess to make money?

You're right... you do bite... but they aren't doing it for the money...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline aligncare

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2015, 05:19:56 pm »
Many of the GOP candidates had good positions on illegal immigration but didn't get the "Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump..." media drone.  It was the media's 'Trump' saturation that got him to front-runner status... not his immigration policy.  That policy changed several times without much criticism as the meme was being tested to see where the biggest reaction-point with voters really was.  The media would not have allowed any other candidate to get away with that many changes.

If you can't see that the media has deliberately 'manufactured' the Trump phenomenon, you'll never be able to recognize how manipulated your beliefs about reality really are, and to ask yourself the next logical question.

Why is the media doing this?

Wake up people...

The media faked the Trump phenomenon? Oh, boy. Here we go again.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2015, 05:20:38 pm »
The media faked the Trump phenomenon? Oh, boy. Here we go again.

You should watch it from my perspective...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

bkepley

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2015, 05:22:09 pm »
You're right... you do bite... but they aren't doing it for the money...

Ok so why did they do it?

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2015, 05:30:22 pm »
Ok so why did they do it?

At least you have the right question now... recognizing that the media did it deliberately is a good first step...

If the entire nation asked that question... the Trump 'phenomenon' would quickly fade... which is near and dear to your heart, right?

Understand?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline aligncare

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2015, 05:34:41 pm »
I'm familiar with Dan, so I think know where he's going. The media is setting up Trump to win the primary, because they believe he will be the easiest candidate to defeat in the general. Correct, Dan?

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2015, 05:38:30 pm »
I'm familiar with Dan, so I think know where he's going. The media is setting up Trump to win the primary, because they believe he will be the easiest candidate to defeat in the general. Correct, Dan?

I can't say exactly why the media is promoting Trump, I could only speculate, but I can certainly see that they are doing that quite deliberately.

Sometimes it is enough just to know that you are being lied to without necessarily knowing exactly why... don't you think?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2015, 05:41:07 pm »
I can't say exactly why the media is promoting Trump, I could only speculate, but I can certainly see that they are doing that quite deliberately.

Sometimes it is enough just to know that you are being lied to without necessarily knowing exactly why... don't you think?

One motive is to get people like Rick Perry out of the race and it's worked to perfection.  Scott Walker will go soon as well.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:38:45 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

bkepley

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2015, 05:41:56 pm »
I can't say exactly why the media is promoting Trump, I could only speculate, but I can certainly see that they are doing that quite deliberately.

Sometimes it is enough just to know that you are being lied to without necessarily knowing exactly why... don't you think?

Disappointing...to say the least.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2015, 05:47:18 pm »
One motive is to get people like Rick Perry out of the race and it's worked to perfection.  Scott Walker ill go soon as well.

Yes, good people are being forced out and that is likely one reason the media has focused on Trump.

Not likely to be the only reason though.

You always have to look at media as propaganda... because that's what it is... always has been...


"One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty_four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

 - John Swinton (1829-1901) | managing editor, New York Times | 1880
 Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979


« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:10:56 pm by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline aligncare

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 05:50:26 pm »
I can't say exactly why the media is promoting Trump, I could only speculate, but I can certainly see that they are doing that quite deliberately.

Sometimes it is enough just to know that you are being lied to without necessarily knowing exactly why... don't you think?

Sure, I agree with that.

However, Trump is a bigger than life personality and that attracts viewers. He's also a well-known figure from his award winning 10-year run Apprentice reality show. The media loves that because they get higher ratings and make more money. I think that's all that's going on there.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2015, 06:21:00 pm »
Sure, I agree with that.

However, Trump is a bigger than life personality and that attracts viewers. He's also a well-known figure from his award winning 10-year run Apprentice reality show. The media loves that because they get higher ratings and make more money. I think that's all that's going on there.

Oh, the award-winning 'reality' show that the media promoted and people accepted as 'entertainment'?  Wasn't that just an earlier example of media promoting Trump?  Trump has declared that he might run for president in 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 and 2016.

The point is that everyone will not come to the same conclusion once they understand that they are being lied to.

It is the inability to recognize that you are being lied to that causes the problem.  Were that recognition widespread, many would come to quite a different conclusion...

« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:28:10 pm by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2015, 06:25:44 pm »
Welcome Jon....thanks for visiting us...your old account is still open..ExurbanJon

btw Jon is an old friend and even designed the logo for my old site GOPachy..so this is a great honor for me!!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:28:52 pm by mystery-ak »
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Offline JonGabriel

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2015, 06:28:59 pm »
Thanks for posting my article! I couldn't remember my old password for my anonymous name, so I decided to make a new one.

Offline JonGabriel

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2015, 06:30:12 pm »
One motive is to get people like Rick Perry out of the race and it's worked to perfection.  Scott Walker ill go soon as well.

This is precisely my fear. Perry and Walker were two of my top picks.

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2015, 06:37:55 pm »

Many of the GOP candidates had good positions on illegal immigration but didn't get the "Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump..." media drone.  It was the media's 'Trump' saturation that got him to front-runner status... not his immigration policy.  That policy changed several times without much criticism as the meme was being tested to see where the biggest reaction-point with voters really was.  The media would not have allowed any other candidate to get away with that many changes.

If you can't see that the media has deliberately 'manufactured' the Trump phenomenon, you'll never be able to recognize how manipulated your beliefs about reality really are, and to ask yourself the next logical question.

Why is the media doing this?

Wake up people...

We'll see, Forest! 

I like your take on this, but it's flat our wrong here.

Only Trump tapped into ILLEGAL immigration, which we can ALL agree, is a very serious problem Obama created.  If he wouldn't have initiated the conversation, it would continue to simmer until God knows when.  It's now in the spotlight and it's an issue in which most Americans both Conservative and Liberal, can relate.

Not one other candidate mentioned the word "deport".  And Donald Trump has no intention of deporting 20 million people.

But he sure as hell will put a cork in it, and we'll know EXACTLY who's here  that's not supposed to be.
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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2015, 06:40:17 pm »
This is precisely my fear. Perry and Walker were two of my top picks.

Welcome aboard Jon Gabriel!  :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline massadvj

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2015, 06:40:25 pm »
These are serious times. We are not a serious people.

This is the money quote and it is spot on.  If the Trump phenomenon has shown us anything, it's this.  I don't blame Trump for it, however.  In fact, I credit him for bringing to light the fact that we are so shallow.  If he wins, then it will speak volumes about the inherent flaw in democracy, where everyone's point of view has equal validity.  Unconstrained by constitutionally-limited government, democracy can easily be manipulated by a charismatic narcissist.   OPapaDoc is also very good illustration of that.  Trump is simply a different brand of narcissist, with an R behind his name.

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Re: The Debate We Were Supposed to Have.... Jon Gabriel
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2015, 06:43:02 pm »
Quote
Unconstrained by constitutionally-limited government, democracy can easily be manipulated by a charismatic narcissist.

Which is why the founders to a man rejected the very idea of a democracy!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien