Graham: Donald Trump is Going to 'Kill My Party'

[Bigun]

I'm more of a message than technique sort of a guy.

Even if you have to follow Alcee Hasting's lead and make it up as you go along!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yeah! Right!

 

Let's see.

Last week Jeb laid out his idea for defunding law enforcement in sanctuary cities and today Rick Perry is talking about doing something with law enforcement in sanctuary cities.

You should try to keep up with current events Bigun.

It's election time.

[Oceander]

I'm more of a message than technique sort of a guy.

Ahh; you're nought for two then.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Actually I did find that but since it doesn't even remotely say what you said you cut and pasted from in your earlier post I wanted to give you the opportunity to post a link that DID say those things!

 

Yeah... that's exactly what you did.

 

[Bigun]

Yeah... that's exactly what you did.

 

Since you failed to provide the link that says what you said you cut and pasted from I am compelled to conclude that you made it up! Again!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Since you failed to provide the link that says what you said you cut and pasted from I am compelled to conclude that you made it up! Again!

AND you can't read.

From one link:

Jeb Bush: 6-part proposal for comprehensive immigration reform

A Proposal for Immigration Reform
Fundamental Reform: Comprehensive interrelated approach because system as a whole is broken, and to achieve bipartisan consensus.
A Demand-Driven Immigration System: Replace overriding preference for family reunification with work-based immigration.
An Increased Role for the States: Share federal authority over immigration policy [such as] social services and providing benefits.
Dealing With Current Illegal Immigrants: We propose a path to permanent legal resident status for those who plead guilty to having entered our country illegally as adults and who have committed no additional crimes of significance.
Border Security: Broader immigration reform is an essential component of border security; we can't do one without the other.
Toward a More Vibrant Future: Getting immigration policy right will allow us to reclaim the prosperity that in recent years has eluded our grasp.

From the other link:

On Wednesday, at a campaign event in New Hampshire, Jeb Bush played up his border security plans when asked about the recent remarks GOP presidential hopeful and real estate mogul Donald Trump has been making about Mexican immigrants and about Bush’s Mexican born wife.

According to a report by Ed O’Keefe from the Washington Post, Bush said, “You can love the Mexican culture, you can love your Mexican-American wife and also believe that we need to control the border.”

Bush also clarified that he would emphasize border patrol:

“He added that he would push to deploy “forward-leaning border control agents” closer to the actual border; use new technologies, including drones, to monitor border traffic; and fix the E-Verify system and stop providing law enforcement funding to “sanctuary cities” that refuse to work with federal agencies to deport illegal immigrants.

As for the nation’s illegal immigrants, Bush said “I honestly think we need to provide a path to legalize status, not citizenship.”

There are none so blind...

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Really?

All that political acumen, all those years as an inner operative for those in-the-know politically and you can't locate a Presidential candidate's stance on issues?

Google?

Here:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/Immigration_Wars_Immigration.htm

And here:

http://politic365.com/2015/07/09/jeb-bush-touts-support-for-border-security-and-path-to-legal-status-for-undocumented/

Try reading more than just the parts that cement in place your preconceived notions.

Speaking as one dick to another, I appreciate you saving me some time and posting those links.  Whether Bigun or Oceander check them out I can't say, but the plan you, Jeb, and Perry have laid out sounds like a step in the right direction.  It is something that could be passed and perhaps even get signed by Obama if the proper pressure or compromise could be worked out.

I don't want to get in the middle of the spat you guys are having because I think you, Oceander, and Bigun all have worthwhile things to say, but you sound frustrated my friend...and you should be because you are right.

I sometimes get frustrated arguing the same points over and over, but I actually enjoy sparing with Bigun because, at least with me, he usually comes up with solid arguments against me...and usually without personal vindictiveness. 

It should be clear from the volume of posts that Bigun and I have shared, I have enormous respect for him.  The people I have no respect for do not receive replies to their posts.  I think Bigun keeps me sharper, and helps me flesh out my opinions. 

I don't expect I can persuade him, but some times we find common ground.  It almost sounded like you and Bigun did find common ground when Bigun pointed out that your proposal and Perry's were almost identical.  I know Bigun respects Perry, and thinks he would make a fine President.  When you pointed out it was Jeb's proposal I am sure Bigun was as dumbfounded as I was...because all I've read on Breitbart is how Jeb wants amnesty for latino drug dealers, rapists, and murders.

Anyways I'm drunk again.  I have tomorrow off.  Thinking I probably shouldn't post this.  I should probably butt out.  Gonna do it post it anyways.

[DCPatriot]

Too bad you don't have what it takes to properly photoshop that so it actually conveyed the meaning you think it does.

I understood it immediately.....   

[DCPatriot]

Speaking as one dick to another, I appreciate you saving me some time and posting those links.  Whether Bigun or Oceander check them out I can't say, but the plan you, Jeb, and Perry have laid out sounds like a step in the right direction.  It is something that could be passed and perhaps even get signed by Obama if the proper pressure or compromise could be worked out.

I don't want to get in the middle of the spat you guys are having because I think you, Oceander, and Bigun all have worthwhile things to say, but you sound frustrated my friend...and you should be because you are right.

I sometimes get frustrated arguing the same points over and over, but I actually enjoy sparing with Bigun because, at least with me, he usually comes up with solid arguments against me...and usually without personal vindictiveness. 

It should be clear from the volume of posts that Bigun and I have shared, I have enormous respect for him.  The people I have no respect for do not receive replies to their posts.  I think Bigun keeps me sharper, and helps me flesh out my opinions. 

I don't expect I can persuade him, but some times we find common ground.  It almost sounded like you and Bigun did find common ground when Bigun pointed out that your proposal and Perry's were almost identical.  I know Bigun respects Perry, and thinks he would make a fine President.  When you pointed out it was Jeb's proposal I am sure Bigun was as dumbfounded as I was...because all I've read on Breitbart is how Jeb wants amnesty for latino drug dealers, rapists, and murders.

Anyways I'm drunk again.  I have tomorrow off.  Thinking I probably shouldn't post this.  I should probably butt out.  Gonna do it post it anyways.

Once-Ler....I make it a point to ALWAYS read your posts!  Many times, twice!     

[massadvj]

You should try to keep up with current events Bigun.

It's election time.

Maybe election time is the last time one should keep up with "current events" if keeping up with them involves listening to campaign promises.  Personally, I prefer to look at the history of a candidate's performance in office and pretty much discount what is said on the campaign trail.  This applies to all candidates, not just Jeb Bush, who I think is getting a bad rap based on his record as governor of Florida.

My objection to Jeb continues to be that he is not electable in a general election against Hillary Clinton.  Otherwise, I am far more comfortable with him as a representative for my viewpoint than I found either his brother or Mitt Romney.

Being an open border advocate myself, I am not as threatened by Jeb's positions on immigration as most conservatives are.  I don't support a path to citizenship or public support for illegals, but I do support the fundamental, inalienable right of any individual to negotiate his labor with anyone willing to enter into an exchange, and I am very bothered by conservatives who support the federal government's intrusion into the private labor market.

I do wonder whether Bush can survive the GOP primary without compromising on his basic support for amnesty.

[DCPatriot]

Maybe election time is the last time one should keep up with "current events" if keeping up with them involves listening to campaign promises.  Personally, I prefer to look at the history of a candidate's performance in office and pretty much discount what is said on the campaign trail.  This applies to all candidates, not just Jeb Bush, who I think is getting a bad rap based on his record as governor of Florida.

My objection to Jeb continues to be that he is not electable in a general election against Hillary Clinton.  Otherwise, I am far more comfortable with him as a representative for my viewpoint than I found either his brother or Mitt Romney.

Being an open border advocate myself, I am not as threatened by Jeb's positions on immigration as most conservatives are.  I don't support a path to citizenship or public support for illegals, but I do support the fundamental, inalienable right of any individual to negotiate his labor with anyone willing to enter into an exchange, and I am very bothered by conservatives who support the federal government's intrusion into the private labor market.

I do wonder whether Bush can survive the GOP primary without compromising on his basic support for amnesty.

Hear!  Hear!   

[Luis Gonzalez]

Maybe election time is the last time one should keep up with "current events" if keeping up with them involves listening to campaign promises.  Personally, I prefer to look at the history of a candidate's performance in office and pretty much discount what is said on the campaign trail.  This applies to all candidates, not just Jeb Bush, who I think is getting a bad rap based on his record as governor of Florida.

My objection to Jeb continues to be that he is not electable in a general election against Hillary Clinton.  Otherwise, I am far more comfortable with him as a representative for my viewpoint than I found either his brother or Mitt Romney.

Being an open border advocate myself, I am not as threatened by Jeb's positions on immigration as most conservatives are.  I don't support a path to citizenship or public support for illegals, but I do support the fundamental, inalienable right of any individual to negotiate his labor with anyone willing to enter into an exchange, and I am very bothered by conservatives who support the federal government's intrusion into the private labor market.

I do wonder whether Bush can survive the GOP primary without compromising on his basic support for amnesty.

The items listed are not campaign promises but rather a collection of Bush's ideas on immigration that he's held for quite some time.

Insofar as whether or not Jeb will "evolve" on how positions, I'll quote the man:

“I’m going to be who I am. I'm not going to change my views because today someone has a view that’s different. I think candidates have a duty to persuade. That’s what this is about.”

I like that.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Speaking as one dick to another, I appreciate you saving me some time and posting those links.  Whether Bigun or Oceander check them out I can't say, but the plan you, Jeb, and Perry have laid out sounds like a step in the right direction.  It is something that could be passed and perhaps even get signed by Obama if the proper pressure or compromise could be worked out.

I don't want to get in the middle of the spat you guys are having because I think you, Oceander, and Bigun all have worthwhile things to say, but you sound frustrated my friend...and you should be because you are right.

I sometimes get frustrated arguing the same points over and over, but I actually enjoy sparing with Bigun because, at least with me, he usually comes up with solid arguments against me...and usually without personal vindictiveness. 

It should be clear from the volume of posts that Bigun and I have shared, I have enormous respect for him.  The people I have no respect for do not receive replies to their posts.  I think Bigun keeps me sharper, and helps me flesh out my opinions. 

I don't expect I can persuade him, but some times we find common ground.  It almost sounded like you and Bigun did find common ground when Bigun pointed out that your proposal and Perry's were almost identical.  I know Bigun respects Perry, and thinks he would make a fine President.  When you pointed out it was Jeb's proposal I am sure Bigun was as dumbfounded as I was...because all I've read on Breitbart is how Jeb wants amnesty for latino drug dealers, rapists, and murders.

Anyways I'm drunk again.  I have tomorrow off.  Thinking I probably shouldn't post this.  I should probably butt out.  Gonna do it post it anyways.

 

It is frustrating.

The people who hang out in places like this are supposed to be politically savvy news junkies, but for the most part it seems to be the exact opposite.

There's a whole lot of either bad information or outright misinformation being spread here, and facts are challenged not by facts, but by mockery and disbelief. We create an echo chamber not by the fact that we don't allow opposing views, but rather by the repetition of memes and mindless slogans as facts.

"It's not true because I don't want to believe it" is commonplace.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

It is frustrating.

The people who hang out in places like this are supposed to be politically savvy news junkies, but for the most part it seems to be the exact opposite.

There's a whole lot of either bad information or outright misinformation being spread here, and facts are challenged not by facts, but by mockery and disbelief. We create an echo chamber not by the fact that we don't allow opposing views, but rather by the repetition of memes and mindless slogans as facts.

"It's not true because I don't want to believe it" is commonplace.

The frustrating thing for me is I know many of my posts get discounted before they are read by the person I'm replying to...but I know I have a bigger audience than the intended target so I don't mind repeating myself as much.

TBR is lucky to have you as a contributor.   

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Once-Ler....I make it a point to ALWAYS read your posts!  Many times, twice!   

With my poor grammar you almost have to read them twice to understand what I mean.  Thank you for that high praise DC.  I am honored because I hold you and your opinion with great esteem.

[Relic]

DBAD.

It appears to be the user's default mode of operation.