Graham: Donald Trump is Going to 'Kill My Party'

[Right_in_Virginia]

Those people are here, talking crap about how there isn't a bit of difference between Jeb and other GOP mainstream candidates and Hillary.

If "those people" are wrong, why not take a moment and explain why.  Let's say the choice next year is between Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton.
What are the differences of substance?

[Right_in_Virginia]

That's exactly what I was trying to say - I guess I wasn't very clear about it.  I agree - Trump has exposed a giant weakness in the GOP - and the GOP has no one to blame but themselves.  Obviously, Trump is hitting a nerve with the people - and it is an opportunity for the other candidates to come out and LEAD on this issue, or crawl around on the ground like a bunch of grovelers.

 

[Longiron]

That's exactly what I was trying to say - I guess I wasn't very clear about it.  I agree - Trump has exposed a giant weakness in the GOP - and the GOP has no one to blame but themselves.  Obviously, Trump is hitting a nerve with the people - and it is an opportunity for the other candidates to come out and LEAD on this issue, or crawl around on the ground like a bunch of grovelers.

Want to guess the path the  RINOGOP canidates will take ? Some might try to lead to get attention BUT the leaders will CRAWL like Bushie, Rubio. Look how fast RIBIO ran and hide move in Vegas this weekend??? Typical RINO, when things get tough they get the hell out asap.

[truth_seeker]

The people you're talking about are not Republican, in name or otherwise.

They're basically either Democrats posing as Republicans in right-wing forums, here to spread discord, anarchists, or Birchers.

Whatever it is that they are, they're as much an enemy to Reagan's Big Tent GOP as the Democrats are. In fact, they're basically allies of the Democrats by virtue of a common enemy.

I spent way too many years in FR reading posts about how the "solution" to the problems of the US was to bring the GOP down and allow the Democrats to win election after election so that the nation would crumble and bring about some sort of right-wing Renaissance, not to understand what their goal is.

Those people are here, talking crap about how there isn't a bit of difference between Jeb and other GOP mainstream candidates and Hillary.

Total and absolute BS, but they're here spreading their memes for the sans culotte to buy into like bread on a hook for lake tarp.

What if you were a lifelong democrat, and discovered that you could run an internet forum, dedicated to criticizing the GOP year after year, support the most fringe type candidates, and get $200,000+ annually from the members of said forum?

It is a niche, that works and works. Narrow, deep and loud. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

If "those people" are wrong, why not take a moment and explain why.  Let's say the choice next year is between Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton.
What are the differences of substance?

Hillary -  pro choice, supports unrestricted abortion on demand

Jeb -  pro life, fought HARD to save Terri Schiavo's life, asked the Courts to appoint a legal guardian for the unborn child of a developmentally disable rape victim

Hillary - pro government expansionism (Hillarycare), etc

Jeb - record of cutting government size as governor (reduced the size of Florida's government by 11%

Hillary - increase taxes (voted twice to end the Bush era tax cuts)

Jeb - on record as having cut anywhere from $13 to $20 billion (depending on whose numbers you use) in taxes in a State of roughly 19 million people.

Hillary - endorsed by the teacher's union yesterday

Jeb - led the nation in the issue of school choice, giving parents the choice to have their kids in non-union driven charter schools

Hillary - pro gun control

Jeb - signed Florida's "stand your ground" law, rock-solid pro 2A 

Hillary - supports... Hell, she would be the second affirmative action President of the US

Jeb - ended affirmative action in Florida by Executive order

Now, go make your "no difference" BS claims someplace where people are driven by memes and slogans.

Sorry, I don't think you said that.

You were just caught up in a friendly fire incicent.

[Luis Gonzalez]

What if you were a lifelong democrat, and discovered that you could run an internet forum, dedicated to criticizing the GOP year after year, support the most fringe type candidates, and get $200,000+ annually from the members of said forum?

It is a niche, that works and works. Narrow, deep and loud.

[MACVSOG68]

Hillary -  pro choice, supports unrestricted abortion on demand

Jeb -  pro life, fought HARD to save Terri Schiavo's life, asked the Courts to appoint a legal guardian for the unborn child of a developmentally disable rape victim

Hillary - pro government expansionism (Hillarycare), etc

Jeb - record of cutting government size as governor (reduced the size of Florida's government by 11%

Hillary - increase taxes (voted twice to end the Bush era tax cuts)

Jeb - on record as having cut anywhere from $13 to $20 billion (depending on whose numbers you use) in taxes in a State of roughly 19 million people.

Hillary - endorsed by the teacher's union yesterday

Jeb - led the nation in the issue of school choice, giving parents the choice to have their kids in non-union driven charter schools

Hillary - pro gun control

Jeb - signed Florida's "stand your ground" law, rock-solid pro 2A 

Hillary - supports... Hell, she would be the second affirmative action President of the US

Jeb - ended affirmative action in Florida by Executive order

Now, go make your "no difference" BS claims someplace where people are driven by memes and slogans.

Well...besides all that, what are the differences.   

I would just ask anyone to go to Hillary's campaign site and look at all her positions on the issues.  She would dramatically expand government, continue the assault on fossil fuels, expand obamacare, increase taxes, put new "family friendly" regulations on all business, increase the minimum wage, veto any legislation to rein in late term abortions, and several other left wing goals.  And if you think she's bad, Bernie makes her look conservative. 

But as many here believe, there's no difference between Jeb and Hillary.   

[Luis Gonzalez]

Well...besides all that, what are the differences.   

I would just ask anyone to go to Hillary's campaign site and look at all her positions on the issues.  She would dramatically expand government, continue the assault on fossil fuels, expand obamacare, increase taxes, put new "family friendly" regulations on all business, increase the minimum wage, veto any legislation to rein in late term abortions, and several other left wing goals.  And if you think she's bad, Bernie makes her look conservative. 

But as many here believe, there's no difference between Jeb and Hillary.   

Jeb has a record of governing as both a solid fiscal and social conservative, but the "no difference" meme is still getting pounded in.

[MACVSOG68]

Jeb has a record of governing as both a solid fiscal and social conservative, but the "no difference" meme is still getting pounded in.

For so many it really isn't about how he did his job as governor, but hinges on one issue:  immigration reform.  Doesn't matter how different he is from Hillary on taxes, social security, gun control, government expansion, foreign policy and a host of issues.  Both want to propose comprehensive immigration reform.  So there's no difference between them. 


                                                                                :huh?:

[Luis Gonzalez]

For so many it really isn't about how he did his job as governor, but hinges on one issue:  immigration reform.  Doesn't matter how different he is from Hillary on taxes, social security, gun control, government expansion, foreign policy and a host of issues.  Both want to propose comprehensive immigration reform.  So there's no difference between them. 


                                                                                :huh?:

There isn't a single other candidate running with a stated position on what to do about the 11+ million already here. Everyone else talks about border security and their plan stops there because they know that saying one word beyond that will end their candidacy.

To the best of my knowledge all that Trump does is talk about how bad things are without offering a solution.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Well...besides all that, what are the differences.   

LOL

Thanks to Luis for the comparison between Hitlery and Jeb.

[MACVSOG68]

There isn't a single other candidate running with a stated position on what to do about the 11+ million already here. Everyone else talks about border security and their plan stops there because they know that saying one word beyond that will end their candidacy.

To the best of my knowledge all that Trump does is talk about how bad things are without offering a solution.

And it's too bad because those who are appealing most to certain people on the right have the least to offer on this issue.

[truth_seeker]

The current appeal of Trump is very much like cheering for a demagogue.

His appeal poisons the chances of appealing to one of the nation's fastest and largest growing voter pools, which pleases democrats greatly.

But reason is overwhelmed by the din of noise, from the narrow but loud supporters.

Current polls have Trump doing the WORST versus Hillary, losing by between 17 and 24 percent.

[Luis Gonzalez]

And it's too bad because those who are appealing most to certain people on the right have the least to offer on this issue.

Rick Perry was on Fox this morning. When the issue of immigration came up, he spent the entire segment taking about securing the border. That's great, and every candidate agrees with securing the border. 

What he didn't say a word about was what to do about the 11+ million illegals already in the country.

So you have Jeb, and we know where he stands on the issue, and all the other candidates and you don't know where they stand on that issue, except that in politics, what's not said speaks louder than what's said, and that being the case, I have to think that the rest of the GOP field agrees with Jeb to one degree or another. They haven't publicly disagreed or agreed with him because that would mean that they would have to put out some sort of alternative, and any alternative they put up will hurt them.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Luis--

That's an impressive list filled with some pretty good platitudes.  However, what are Jeb's plans as President?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Luis--

That's an impressive list filled with some pretty good platitudes.  However, what are Jeb's plans as President?

Who is your guy?

[Fishrrman]

Alice wrote above:
[[ Obviously, Trump is hitting a nerve with the people - and it is an opportunity for the other candidates to come out and LEAD on this issue, or crawl around on the ground like a bunch of grovelers. ]]

Well, said, Alice.

The "opportunity" is there for any one of the other Pubbie candidates to begin speaking frankly on the border crisis.

And -- at least up to this posting -- they ALL seem to be doin' nuthin' more than a-crawlin' and a-grovelin' !!

Aside:
I would like to propose that "the border problem" should be a separate issue, removed from the "illegal immigrant" problem.

Both ARE great problems for the nation, and they are related, but... they can be "politically separated" and addressed as such.

Luis, in particular, in posting after posting keeps repeating the mantra "but what do you propose to do with the 11 million already here?"

Well, we can worry about that later -- AFTER we deal with the border issue FIRST.

The reason we need to do this, is so that when it's time to "deal with the 11 million", it won't (by then) be 15 million, or 20 million, or....?

An analogy:
When your ship has sprung a leak and is in danger of sinking, do you worry about how many gallons of water you've taken in, or do you try to plug the leak first?

Another analogy:
When a pipe has burst in your basement, which do you address first:
- sumping out what's accumulated, or
- turning off the master valve to stop the inward rush of water?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Alice wrote above:
[[ Obviously, Trump is hitting a nerve with the people - and it is an opportunity for the other candidates to come out and LEAD on this issue, or crawl around on the ground like a bunch of grovelers. ]]

Well, said, Alice.

The "opportunity" is there for any one of the other Pubbie candidates to begin speaking frankly on the border crisis.

And -- at least up to this posting -- they ALL seem to be doin' nuthin' more than a-crawlin' and a-grovelin' !!

Aside:
I would like to propose that "the border problem" should be a separate issue, removed from the "illegal immigrant" problem.

Both ARE great problems for the nation, and they are related, but... they can be "politically separated" and addressed as such.

Luis, in particular, in posting after posting keeps repeating the mantra "but what do you propose to do with the 11 million already here?"

Well, we can worry about that later -- AFTER we deal with the border issue FIRST.

The reason we need to do this, is so that when it's time to "deal with the 11 million", it won't (by then) be 15 million, or 20 million, or....?

An analogy:
When your ship has sprung a leak and is in danger of sinking, do you worry about how many gallons of water you've taken in, or do you try to plug the leak first?

Another analogy:
When a pipe has burst in your basement, which do you address first:
- sumping out what's accumulated, or
- turning off the master valve to stop the inward rush of water?

Good... here's Jeb Bush's position on border security:

He's on record as saying that he will deploy “forward-leaning border control agents” closer to the actual border; use new technologies, including drones, to monitor border traffic; and fix the E-Verify system and stop providing law enforcement funding to “sanctuary cities” that refuse to work with federal agencies to deport illegal immigrants."

So, what's the problem with Bush and the border security portion of the immigration issue then?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Good... here's Jeb Bush's position on border security:

He's on record as saying that he will deploy “forward-leaning border control agents” closer to the actual border; use new technologies, including drones, to monitor border traffic; and fix the E-Verify system and stop providing law enforcement funding to “sanctuary cities” that refuse to work with federal agencies to deport illegal immigrants."

So, what's the problem with Bush and the border security portion of the immigration issue then?

OH!

Jeb Bush is on record as wanting to share federal authority with the States over immigration policy [such as] social services and providing benefits.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Oh... about that fence on the border:

ALMOLOYA DE JUAREZ, MEXICO — Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán, the world’s most famous drug lord, escaped from a ­maximum-security prison in Mexico for the second time in his drug-running career, a spectacular breach of security that set off a wide-ranging manhunt early Sunday.

For the past year and a half, the leader of the Sinaloa cartel had been incarcerated in the Altiplano, a federal facility set amid farmland west of the capital that holds the top captured drug bosses and has been described as the country’s most impenetrable prison.

That changed late Saturday, when Guzmán slipped out of the prison through a rectangular opening in the shower area of his cell that led to a nearly mile-long tunnel running out of the prison, underneath rolling corn fields and cow pastures and ending at a small cinder-block house decorated with Christmas lights that residents say was built after Guzmán’s imprisonment.

[olde north church]

OH!

Jeb Bush is on record as wanting to share federal authority with the States over immigration policy [such as] social services and providing benefits.

Here's a idea on social services for illegal aliens, you get none.  The whole "out of the shadows", "back alley" bullshit is little more than Leftist agitprop.  You got here on your own, GTFO on your own, because I will sure as a sunny day rises, take CARE of my own.
Are all of these childhood and other formerly controlled diseases springing back into the general population upon the wings of sylphs?  The Egyptians saw it and did nothing.  The Greeks saw it and did nothing.  The Romans saw it and did nothing.  You noticing a pattern here?  If you're not taking care of the CITIZENS first, you don't belong in office.

[Bigun]

Here's a idea on social services for illegal aliens, you get none.  The whole "out of the shadows", "back alley" bullshit is little more than Leftist agitprop.  You got here on your own, GTFO on your own, because I will sure as a sunny day rises, take CARE of my own.
Are all of these childhood and other formerly controlled diseases springing back into the general population upon the wings of sylphs?  The Egyptians saw it and did nothing.  The Greeks saw it and did nothing.  The Romans saw it and did nothing.  You noticing a pattern here?  If you're not taking care of the CITIZENS first, you don't belong in office.

 

And not only that you can't get a job, rent an apartment, get utilities turned on, ... here!

[Bigun]

20,000 PATRIOTS Turn Out to See DONALD TRUMP in ARIZONA!

[EdinVA]

Good... here's Jeb Bush's position on border security:

He's on record as saying that he will deploy “forward-leaning border control agents” closer to the actual border; use new technologies, including drones, to monitor border traffic; and fix the E-Verify system and stop providing law enforcement funding to “sanctuary cities” that refuse to work with federal agencies to deport illegal immigrants."

So, what's the problem with Bush and the border security portion of the immigration issue then?

"forwrd-leaning"?  What the hell does that mean?  Is bush gay?
So bushy wants to monitor the border but not secure it... we are already doing that so what is new here?

[libertybele]

Alice wrote above:
[[ Obviously, Trump is hitting a nerve with the people - and it is an opportunity for the other candidates to come out and LEAD on this issue, or crawl around on the ground like a bunch of grovelers. ]]

Well, said, Alice.

The "opportunity" is there for any one of the other Pubbie candidates to begin speaking frankly on the border crisis.

And -- at least up to this posting -- they ALL seem to be doin' nuthin' more than a-crawlin' and a-grovelin' !!

Aside:
I would like to propose that "the border problem" should be a separate issue, removed from the "illegal immigrant" problem.

Both ARE great problems for the nation, and they are related, but... they can be "politically separated" and addressed as such.

Luis, in particular, in posting after posting keeps repeating the mantra "but what do you propose to do with the 11 million already here?"

Well, we can worry about that later -- AFTER we deal with the border issue FIRST.

The reason we need to do this, is so that when it's time to "deal with the 11 million", it won't (by then) be 15 million, or 20 million, or....?

An analogy:
When your ship has sprung a leak and is in danger of sinking, do you worry about how many gallons of water you've taken in, or do you try to plug the leak first?

Another analogy:
When a pipe has burst in your basement, which do you address first:
- sumping out what's accumulated, or
- turning off the master valve to stop the inward rush of water?

Unless you adequately and effectively secure the border and enforce existing immigration laws you will not be able to control illegal immigration period. The 11 million ILLEGALS that are estimated to be here is a very conservative number and an old number; that was a number given years ago during the first years of "W"'s administration.  The illegal influx has grown due to an unsecured border and  non enforcement of existing immigration laws; more recent numbers estimate the illegal population to be around 20 million.

I still feel that mass deportation is not out of the realm of possibilities.  Empty out our prison systems, deny benefits to illegals such as health care, food stamps, and other welfare programs and you would see a drove self-deporting.  Many schools are filled with illegal students - deport them and the parents!  No, its not picking on the poor kids, they shouldn't be here in the first place. Those that are caught in the U.S. should be immediately deported rather than caught and released.  If a program were set up allowing illegals to self-deport which would enable them to apply for citizenship at a later date provided that they met certain criteria vs. if you are caught and deported you have no chance EVER of becoming a legal citizen.  Those applying for legal citizenship that have not been in this country should be given priority.