Author Topic: Consensus Conservative in 2016?  (Read 2192 times)

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« on: March 28, 2015, 03:59:42 am »
http://cookpolitical.com/story/8301

Many are looking at the 2016 GOP primary in the same way they look at recent congressional GOP primaries: a contest between the Tea Party or very conservative forces versus the traditional conservative/establishment forces. At the House and Senate level, of course, the candidate who corralled the support of the Tea Party segment of the party has often been successful in toppling the establishment favorite. The question is whether this same dynamic can play out at the presidential level.

First, despite the rise of the Tea Party, the overall primary electorate is  majority "somewhat conservative" to "moderate" in ideology. In 2012, according to exit polling, 34 percent of the GOP electorate defined itself as "very conservative", while the other 57 percent defined themselves as either "somewhat conservative" (33 percent), or "moderate," (24 percent). This obviously fluctuates state by state with almost half of Iowa caucuses goers defining themselves as very conservative and 35 percent of New Hampshire Republicans identifying themselves as moderate. Even so, taken as a whole, the GOP electorate is not as ideologically aligned to the far right some make it out to be.

2012 Primary Vote

Candidate    Very Conservative (34%)    Somewhat Conservative (33%)    Moderate (24%)
Romney           30%                            46%                                            48%
Santorum           36%                            24%                                             21%
Gingrich              26%                            21%                                             15%
Ron Paul          7%                      8%                                             14%
* from exit polling

Then there's that fact that in a field as crowded as this one, it's hard to believe that any candidate is going to get the "very conservative" space to him/her self. In 2012, Mitt Romney was the obvious establishment candidate. The three anti-establishment candidates (Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul), split up that very conservative vote. Santorum took the lions' share with 36 percent, but Gingrich took another 26 percent and Paul siphoned off 7 percent. Meanwhile, Romney took almost half (46 percent) of the somewhat conservative and 48 percent of the moderate vote. In 2016, Ted Cruz, who is clearly gunning to be the face of the conservative wing of the party, will face a crowded field of candidates for that space including Rand Paul, Ben Carson, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee.

To be sure, Bush doesn't have the establishment vote to himself either as Walker and Rubio will provide strong competition for that segment of the electorate. In fact, it's hard to believe that Bush will be able to dominate the somewhat conservative and moderate factions of the party as thoroughly as Romney did. Even Rand Paul should be considered a threat to Bush in this category. In 2012, for example, Paul's father Ron picked up 14 percent of the moderate vote - his strongest showing among any of the GOP sub-groups.

Then there's the issue of the calendar and the way delegates are awarded. Changes to RNC nominating rules in 2010 that were designed to help non-establishment candidates - such as allowing some states to award delegates proportionally instead of winner take all-weren't enough to derail Romney. Those rules, as Jim Rutenberg outlined in a recent New York Times magazine article, have since been modified to further limit the possibility of a rogue or non-establishment candidate winning the nomination. Even those states that have proportional voting, for example, have different rules for how the delegates are doled out. Some by congressional district. Some by statewide vote. Some by a combination of both. In other words, as we saw in the 2008 Democratic primary fight, the calendar and the rules are going to be a critical - and not easily understood - factor in determining the nominee.

Given the current depth and breadth of the field, the fight for the nomination is going to be longer and more complicated than we've seen in recent memory. The rise of SuperPACs and mega-donors adds another layer of unpredictability to the mix. It's also important to understand that the race for the GOP nomination for President is very different from a House or Senate primary. At the congressional level, you are fighting in just one state or district. In the presidential primary, each state presents a different GOP electorate and different number of delegates. In other words, those looking for a "consensus" candidate may be disappointed.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 04:33:50 am »
Latest polls from Real Clear Politics:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Latest from Polling Report:

http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html

I'm predicting Cruz' supporters will be learning the meaning of "Deep but Narrow" over the next few months.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 05:59:16 am »
Latest polls from Real Clear Politics:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Latest from Polling Report:

http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html

I'm predicting Cruz' supporters will be learning the meaning of "Deep but Narrow" over the next few months.
You're probably correct, but the latest polls are too soon after Sen. Cruz's announcement to be a good indicator of his interest and support.  When I make predictions, they usually ends up showing my hubris and not my brilliance, but I too see little reason for GOP primary voters to jump aboard the Cruz ship.

I understand why Sen. Cruz is running.  Because of Obama's unpopularity, this could be Cruz's, or any Republican's, best chance to become President.  Now is the right time.  But is Sen. Cruz the right thing to do? 

I can't wait to find out, and I'm looking forward to Sen. Cruz making the case that he deserves credit for standing up against funding Obamacare and Homeland Security, and the GOP Establishment doesn't, even though the Establishment plan and the Cruz plan resulted in the same outcome.

Of course Sen. Ted Cruz never had a plan to win Obamacare defunding, or if he did he never told anyone.  It's hard to lead people if you don't tell them where they are going.

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 12:41:23 pm »
Latest polls from Real Clear Politics:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Latest from Polling Report:

http://www.pollingreport.com/index.html

I'm predicting Cruz' supporters will be learning the meaning of "Deep but Narrow" over the next few months.

The left and right wings may have dramatically different goals and ideologies, but similar thoughts about the electorate.  On our side of the aisle, those more oriented toward the wing believe only someone like Cruz can create a successful campaign.  On the left side, their wing believes that Warren or O'Malley can win in a landslide.  Both seem motivated more by rhetoric than by plans.  And both believe it's exactly what America wants.   :pondering:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 01:16:49 pm »
Bottom line is whoever wants to be that consensus conservative is going to have to have some ground game, i.e. money, manpower, and marketing. Fiery speeches, soaring rhetoric, media face time, soundbites, glitter, fireworks, and circuses aren't going to bank the delegates to win the convention.

Sad part is many of the purist conservatives don't like getting their hands dirty and building the winning team and strategy. They like to armchair things. I have zero respect for that - that's 60's political theater, and it's politically DOA in GOP circles. I sincerely hope there will be a conservative candidates that will get beyond being loud and brash put some substance and structure to their campaign.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 01:24:38 pm »
The left and right wings may have dramatically different goals and ideologies, but similar thoughts about the electorate.  On our side of the aisle, those more oriented toward the wing believe only someone like Cruz can create a successful campaign.  On the left side, their wing believes that Warren or O'Malley can win in a landslide.  Both seem motivated more by rhetoric than by plans.  And both believe it's exactly what America wants.   :pondering:

Both those camps are isolated in either forums like these, or simply by choosing to NOT associate with people who do not share their views in real life.

That echo chamber creates the illusions that you pointed out.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 01:34:45 pm »
Both those camps are isolated in either forums like these, or simply by choosing to NOT associate with people who do not share their views in real life.


And each are happy to discard those who agree with them only 90% of the time.
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 04:50:45 pm »
Both those camps are isolated in either forums like these, or simply by choosing to NOT associate with people who do not share their views in real life.

That echo chamber creates the illusions that you pointed out.

Indeed.  Recall the thread on Krauthammer's concerns about Cruz as a first term senator running for the presidency?   :laugh:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 05:06:07 pm »
And each are happy to discard those who agree with them only 90% of the time.


Sad, but seemingly true.   :shrug:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 06:10:04 pm »
Those moved greatly by oration, will appreciate Marjoe Gortner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFx0qIa5TqM

and later in life, (when adult Marjoe knew what he did was a manipulative scam)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-C3trU9ljw
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 06:16:25 pm by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: Consensus Conservative in 2016?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 08:08:31 pm »
And each are happy to discard those who agree with them only 90% of the time.

Yes, but even discard is too tame a term.   
It's the Supreme Court nominations!