Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback

[Bigun]

The PEOPLE of Cuba backed the Castro brothers. Many who later came here vowing to die fighting them (and in many cases did)  backed them, welcomed and cheered them as they rolled into the capital.

That they dd! And the reason they did was because they were CONTINUOUSLY being lied to about who and what the Castro brothers really were. Had the people who then sat on the Caribbean desk in the state department told them the TRUTH about them the outcome would have been VERY different IMHO!
! 

[Luis Gonzalez]

There's a lot of borderline racism everywhere, t_s, but it's not a function of the TP, but rather the human heart, and that's never going to be 'fixed' politically.

There's no question that there have been some who have taken advantage of the movement for their own financial gain.  Again, not the property of the TP, but a problem with human nature and true across the political spectrum.

Being wise about financial support is always important, but that doesn't mean that the principles espoused by the Tea Party are errant.

That's the problem with a populist movement that has no leadership, no distinct platform, no cohesiveness and no cohesive center. Anyone can represent themselves as speaking the TEA Party and there's no one who can say that they can't.

[Bigun]

I don't know a single person who thinks Sarah Palin can beat Hillary.

I will tell you this without equivocation! If the choice was between Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton I would take Sarah EVERY SINGLE TIME!

[musiclady]

That's the problem with a populist movement that has no leadership, no distinct platform, no cohesiveness and no cohesive center. Anyone can represent themselves as speaking the TEA Party and there's no one who can say that they can't.

I actually agree with you on that, Luis.

I just don't think the potential risk makes the idea bad.

Risks are part of anything new.

[musiclady]

I will tell you this without equivocation! If the choice was between Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton I would take Sarah EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Well, OBVIOUSLY!  ^-^

I just don't know anyone personally who wants her to run, or thinks she can win.

Too much baggage, and she's done too little of import with her time since her last run.

JMHO.

[Bigun]

That's the problem with a populist movement that has no leadership, no distinct platform, no cohesiveness and no cohesive center. Anyone can represent themselves as speaking the TEA Party and there's no one who can say that they can't.

The Republican Party has a platform! How many of the elected officials in Washington do you see adhering to it?

[Carling]

I will tell you this without equivocation! If the choice was between Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton I would take Sarah EVERY SINGLE TIME!

I'm guessing everybody else in this community would as well without thinking twice.  That wasn't what was posted, though.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Well, OBVIOUSLY!  ^-^

I just don't know anyone personally who wants her to run, or thinks she can win.

Too much baggage, and she's done too little of import with her time since her last run.

JMHO.

However, the same can't be said about a Bush or Romney nomination.

[musiclady]

However, the same can't be said about a Bush or Ronneg nomination.

Can you clarify that for me, Luis?

I'm not sure what you mean.

(Sorry if I'm a bit dense, but I've never said I wouldn't support Bush or Romney against Hillary, and I'm pretty sure Bigun has said the same thing).

[Carling]

However, the same can't be said about a Bush or Ronneg nomination.

I read a post here recently where somebody did their own "scientific" ananlysis of McCain and Clinton, and found there is no difference between the two.  It may even be in this thread, but I'm not going to back and look for it.  I laughed when I read it, and now just skip over every post by that person, who actually hasn't posted since making their "findings" public on this board.  In my view, it was clearly an attempt to troll, and I'm not at all a fan of McCain and only voted for him because he was the GOP candidate against an obvious amateur, Obama. 

[musiclady]

I read a post here recently where somebody did their own "scientific" ananlysis of McCain and Clinton, and found there is no difference between the two.  It may even be in this thread, but I'm not going to back and look for it.  I laughed when I read it, and now just skip over every post by that person, who actually hasn't posted since making their "findings" public on this board.  In my view, it was clearly an attempt to troll, and I'm not at all a fan of McCain and only voted for him because he was the GOP candidate against an obvious amateur, Obama.

Anyone who says there is no difference between McCain and Clinton is quite simply not telling the truth.

I've never liked McCain, and I don't like him now, but to say there's no difference?

Ridiculous!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Can you clarify that for me, Luis?

I'm not sure what you mean.

(Sorry if I'm a bit dense, but I've never said I wouldn't support Bush or Romney against Hillary, and I'm pretty sure Bigun has said the same thing).

I was commenting on Biguns post you were responding to.

[libertybele]

Anyone who says there is no difference between McCain and Clinton is quite simply not telling the truth.

I've never liked McCain, and I don't like him now, but to say there's no difference?

Ridiculous!

Actually, I did a voting record comparison and a comparison on their "stance" on certain issues at the time they were running against Obama and what I stated was that I actually found Clinton to be the more conservative of the two.  Yes, of course there are some differences between the two.  However, I have always been of the opinion that the only difference between voting for McCain and Obama would be that Obama would destroy the country at a faster rate than McCain.  In hindsight, I don't think my assessment was all the far off.

[musiclady]

I was commenting on Biguns post you were responding to.

Gotcha.

[speekinout]

Can anyone define what the Tea Party stands for? Can anyone identify a Tea Party leader? I sure can't.

I was all in favor of the Tea Party in the beginning when it was about Taxed Enough Already. It wasn't particularly clear what that meant at the time, but it did have appeal. But the movement never came together. It is now mostly people who don't like the way the country is going, but there doesn't seem to be any agreement on what to do next.
If we really care about the economy, we'd be talking about the biggest financial risks we have - entitlements - wouldn't we?
And Americans do have differences of opinion about some of our other big problems - how to handle immigration; what to do about Islamic terrorism, either domestic threats or the world-wide threats; whether moral issues - abortion, gay marriage, fatherless children - are fed'l or state issues; etc. Who decides which view of those problems is the Tea Party opinion? Can we call anyone a Tea Party politician if they don't have the "official" opinion on all of those issues? Who vets the Tea Party candidates to make sure they have the correct view on all of the important issues?

How can we discuss who is a Tea Party loyalist if we don't know the answer to those questions?

[truth_seeker]

Anybody can start their own Tea Party Chapter. It can stand for anything.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Actually, I did a voting record comparison and a comparison on their "stance" on certain issues at the time they were running against Obama and what I stated was that I actually found Clinton to be the more conservative of the two.  Yes, of course there are some differences between the two.  However, I have always been of the opinion that the only difference between voting for McCain and Obama would be that Obama would destroy the country at a faster rate than McCain.  In hindsight, I don't think my assessment was all the far off.

OK.

Here we go:

John McCain:

Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
Voted YES on restricting UN funding for population control policies. (Mar 2009)
Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006)
Prohibit transporting minors across state lines for abortion. (Jan 2008)

Hillary Clinton:

Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus. (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women. (Apr 2001)
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
Sponsored bill for emergency contraception for rape victims. (Sep 2006)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Provide emergency contraception at military facilities. (Apr 2007)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception. (Jan 2009)

JOhn McCain:

Veto all pork-barrel bills and announce pork spenders. (May 2007)
Voted NO on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (May 2009)
Voted NO on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Feb 2009)
Voted YES on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
Voted YES on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)
Balanced Budget Amendment with 3/5 vote to override. (Jan 2009)
Disapprove of increasing the debt limit. (Jan 2012)
Maintain & enforce existing spending caps in the future. (Sep 1998)

Hillary Clinton:

Co-sponsored bills totaling $502B in spending thru 2005. (Oct 2006)
Voted YES on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)

John McCain:

Ban on same-sex marriage is unRepublican; leave it to states. (Nov 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
Voted YES on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Require 90 day delay for compliance before ADA lawsuits. (May 2002)
Limit interstate class-action lawsuits to federal courts . (May 2002)
Rated 0% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 33% by the HRC, indicating a mixed record on gay rights. (Dec 2006)
Rated 7% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)

Hillary Clinton:

Op-ed: Voted no on flag-burning to build centrist credential. (May 2006)
Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all. (Aug 2000)
Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees. (Dec 2007)

JOhn McCain:

Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on banning high-capacity magazines of over 10 bullets. (Apr 2013)
Voted YES on allowing firearms in checked baggage on Amtrak trains. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Allow veterans to register unlicensed guns acquired abroad. (Apr 2011)
Oppose the United Nations' Arms Trade Treaty. (Sep 2013)
Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)
Allow firearms in National Parks. (Feb 2008)

Hillary Clinton:

License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)
Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation. (Jul 1999)
Lock up guns; store ammo separately. (Jun 1999)
Ban kids’ unsupervised access to guns. (Jun 1999)
Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence. (Mar 2004)

I could keep going, but it is blatantly obvious that you are not correct.

[Lando Lincoln]

Bravo Luis. THAT took effort and time, and it contributed to the forum.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Thought the very same thing when I read it.

Limited government, a powerful and READY military and lowered tax rates are probably the ONLY three planks in which we share a common interest.

Those three are pretty good goals to share.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The Republican Party has a platform! How many of the elected officials in Washington do you see adhering to it?

Quite a few of them actually.

https://www.gop.com/platform

[Formerly Once-Ler]

OK.

Here we go:

John McCain:

Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
Voted YES on restricting UN funding for population control policies. (Mar 2009)
<snip>

I admire John McCain as a Republican politician and an American.  If he decided to run for President again I would vote for him.  I sure do wish he had won in 2008.

Thanks for pointing out McCain's conservative record.  Those of you that can't stand John McCain have a secret buddy.

Reid: 'I can't stand John McCain' http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0808/Reid_I_cant_stand_John_McCain.html

[libertybele]

Good grief.  Not so cut and dry.  First of all, From Jan 1987 to Jan 2015, McCain missed 969 of 9,393 roll call votes, which is 10.3%. This is worse than the median of 1.7% among the lifetime records of senators currently serving.  Remember he ran against Bush back in 2000 and Obama in 2008 --- his stance on many issues in that time frame wavered to "suit" his campaign rhetoric -- I don't still have the data that I collected back then still lying around.  If you want to jump down my throat over this ... whatever.... glad I could keep you busy. At any rate there are several websites that have gathered some of McCain's voting records on issues and he is now considered a Libertarian Republican.

To say that McCain doesn't vote or side with Democrats is quite ridiculous.  Ever hear of the McCain-Feingold Act??  Another example; McCain went up against big tobacco and proposed legislation that would increase cigarette taxes in order to fund anti-smoking campaigns to help keep kids from smoking etc., and would give states money for smoking-related health care costs; this was largely supported by yep, you guessed it the Clinton administration.  He also worked with Teddy Kennedy on the issue of illegal immigration which included a guest worker program and a pathway to citizenship.  Several "issues" that he worked together with the Democrats luckily never passed as they were rejected by Republicans.  These few issues that I have briefly stated and others is why many Republicans voters refused to vote for him when he ran both against Bush and Obama.

Sorry, but I am not the only one that considers McCain a RINO; otherwise he would be sitting in the oval office.  I was quite amazed when Romney decided to stand down (in the best interest of the Republican party) and allow McCain to run against Obama.  It didn't seem to me that Romney's defeat was all that apparent when he made that decision to step down; that was a huge mistake on his part and not only did it cost the GOP that election but we as a country got Obama.

http://therightscoop.com/john-mccain-praises-how-democrats-passed-obamacare-says-elections-have-consequences/

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/080113-666081-john-mccain-republican-in-name-only.htm

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread148753/pg1

[musiclady]

Bravo Luis. THAT took effort and time, and it contributed to the forum.

I echo that.  Thank you, Luis.

I knew on its face that the statement that their voting records was the same was wrong (on the pro-life issue alone, which, as you know, is an extremely important issue to me), but it's good to see their actual votes displayed.

I'm all for "holding the Republicans feet to the fire" when it comes to platform issues, but that doesn't include misstating, or lying about their records.  (And I really, really don't like McCain!)

Glad to see that corrected.

[Lando Lincoln]

I don't like John McCain - not even a little - but his voting record speaks for itself and is in stark contrast to Clinton's.

[libertybele]

I echo that.  Thank you, Luis.

I knew on its face that the statement that their voting records was the same was wrong (on the pro-life issue alone, which, as you know, is an extremely important issue to me), but it's good to see their actual votes displayed.

I'm all for "holding the Republicans feet to the fire" when it comes to platform issues, but that doesn't include misstating, or lying about their records.  (And I really, really don't like McCain!)

Glad to see that corrected.

Calling me a liar is offensive and I find it really ugly.  I am chastised for calling those that have voted with and sided with Democrats RINO's yet I am blatantly called a liar!  The data and research that I did clearly showed AT THE TIME, McCain to be the more conservative of the two.  I am entitled to my opinion period. Again, some of the issues that he has sided with the Democrats on, never came to cloture because even the GOPe didn't side with him. 

I understand that you are anti-TEA, that is very obvious.  Your tactics of belittlement and name-calling is how those on the left operate. I am one that has never voted for McCain just for the sake of voting along party lines.  I vote with my conscious. I also stand by my opinion that McCain would have destroyed this country as Obama has only at a slower pace.

Go ahead...name call and belittle me all you want. At the end of the day I have a clear conscious and know that I haven't supported the overwhelming corruption in Washington.  Carry on.