Author Topic: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD  (Read 788 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 385,464
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« on: October 16, 2014, 11:22:59 pm »
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/16/insiders-blame-rove-for-covering-up-iraq-s-real-wmd.html

Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
Eli Lake

There’s one man, some Republicans say, who kept the public from learning about the chemical shells littered around the Iraqi battlefield. He was Bush's most important political adviser.

Starting in 2004, some members of the George W. Bush administration and Republican lawmakers began to find evidence of discarded chemical weapons in Iraq. But when the information was brought up with the White House, senior adviser Karl Rove told them to ‘let these sleeping dogs lie.’

The issue of Iraq’s WMD remnant was suddenly thrust back into the fore this week, with a blockbuster New York Times report accusing the Bush administration of covering up American troops’ chemically-induced wounds.

To people familiar with the issue, both inside that administration and without, the blame for the cover up falls on one particular set of shoulders: Rove’s.

From the perspective of Rick Santorum, a Republican senator from Pennsylvania who lost his seat in 2006, some of the weapons of mass destruction President Bush promised would be in Iraq before the 2003 invasion of the country began turning up as early as 2004.

In an interview with The Daily Beast, former Senator Rick Santorum said he and his staff began receiving photographs of discarded Sarin and Mustard shells from U.S. soldiers in 2004. Two years later, when he was up for re-election, Santorum even went public with some of this information in a press conference disclosing a Pentagon report that found 500 chemical weapons shells had been found in Iraq.

One might think a politically vulnerable Bush White House would’ve seized on Santorum’s discovery. After all, Bush and his subordinates famously accused Iraq of having active weapons of mass destruction programs.

But at least in 2005 and 2006 the Bush White House wasn’t interested. “We don’t want to look back,” Santorum recalled Rove as saying (though Santorum stressed he was not quoting verbatim conversations he had more than eight years ago). “I will say that the gist of the comments from the president’s senior people was 'we don’t want to look back, we want to look forward.'”

Dave Wurmser—who served at the time as a senior adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney on national security issues —remembers receiving a similar message from Rove.

    “In 2005-6, Karl Rove and his team blocked public disclosure of these findings and said, ‘let these sleeping dogs lie; we have lost that fight so better not to remind anyone of it.’”

According to Wurmser, “in 2005-6, Karl Rove and his team blocked public disclosure of these (findings) and said ‘let these sleeping dogs lie; we have lost that fight so better not to remind anyone of it.’”

Rove declined to comment for this story.

At least part of the Bush administration’s case against Saddam Hussein was based on the fact that he never properly accounted for the chemical weapons stockpile he had built up in the 1980s. As Santorum himself said during his 2006 press conference the Pentagon’s report at the time “proves that weapons of mass destruction are, in fact, in Iraq.”

Santorum on Thursday stood by that claim. “There was no active chemical weapons operation in Iraq, that doesn’t mean there were no chemical weapons,” he said. “That was the point we were making. It’s clear from the New York Times article that the military as well as the administration didn’t want to have that conversation because they missed it.”

Santorum said that in 2005 he began raising the issue in 2005 with the White House himself. “I had discussions over a period of a year or two. Why aren’t we mentioning this? Why aren’t we doing anything on this?” he recalled. But Santorum later became so frustrated that by 2006, his message to the White House was: “I am going to do this [go public] whether you do it or not.”

One former senior White House official who requested anonymity confirmed that the White House had no interest in 2006 in re-engaging the public debate over weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He said that other lawmakers had recommended Bush give a press conference with some of the discarded weapons wearing a protective suit.

“We killed that idea at the time,” the former official said. “It’s not a good idea to have the president near this stuff, it’s very dangerous.” This former official said that there were attempts from the White House in 2004 to get some in the media to write about the issue, but the narrative about Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction was already fixed in the mind of the public and the press. “There was not much we could do on this,” this official said.

Nonetheless, Santorum and others continued to press the White House. In the House, Pete Hoekstra, who was then the Republican chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, conducted his own investigation into the older chemical weapons that were showing up in Iraq.

In an interview Thursday, Hoekstra declined to name Bush administration officials with whom he spoke. But he said he felt stonewalled during his own investigation in 2005 and 2006 into the issue. “This was an active investigation by the intelligence committee and they chose not to answer our questions truthfully and fully,” Hoekstra said.

Indeed, when Hoekstra teamed up with Santorum in 2006 to present the Pentagon finding about 500 chemical weapons warheads, he said the Pentagon was much more critical of the information than the media or the Democrats.

“They came out and said these were not the weapons we were looking for,” Hoekstra said. “Somewhere along the line we were talking to people who were lying to us. This has to reach fairly far and fairly high. I am absolutely furious about it.” At the time, David Kay, the first head of the team of weapons inspectors in post invasion Iraq, said the munitions publicized by Hoekstra and Santorum in 2006 were “less toxic than most things that Americans have under their kitchen sink at this point.”

One explanation for why the White House was not interested was so as not to tip off Sunni insurgents in Iraq. As the New York Times reported this week, some of the main areas in Iraq that used to store chemical weapons is in areas now controlled by ISIS.

Wurmser said that in 2004 and 2005 “chemical weapons shells began turning up in arms markets in Iraq in small numbers, but eventually in batches of 100 or so.” He said that when he asked the U.S. intelligence community to go public with the information, they “quite properly asked it be kept quiet until they track down the source of the weapons so that they can secure it and not tip off Sunni insurgents to go and retrieve them themselves.”

Eventually, Wurmser said, Sunni insurgent groups did gain access to the shells in 2005. “There were to my memory at least two attacks on our soldiers using chemical-weapons rigged shells as (improvised explosive devices). Fortunately, they were ineffectively weaponized and soldiers were wounded but not killed.”

Wurmser, however, grew more frustrated over time. “After waiting a year—during which we asked that the source of the batches be traced and followed to the location where the shells were being retrieved—we continued to see the trickle, but then discovered nobody was making any effort to track the source to the location of retrieval,” he said. “Instead, we were continuing to try to buy up some of the stuff in the market.”

After the U.S. found thousands of the old chemical weapons shells, Wurmser and others at one point argued that they had an obligation to declare the stocks of chemical weapons under the Chemical Weapons Convention and destroy them. The United States was, after all, the occupier of Iraq and had assumed the country’s sovereign responsibilities as a signatory to the convention.

“It was all for nothing; Rove wanted the issue buried,” Wurmser said.

At the end of the day, Santorum said he would not call the White House behavior at the time a cover up, as was implied in the New York Times story. “I don’t know if I would use the term cover up,” he said. “I would just say they simply didn’t want to discuss it.”
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline Scottftlc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,799
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified free of TDS
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 11:29:42 pm »
If true, this would fit Rove's pattern.  He overthinks everything and makes stupid, unnecessary mistakes...he eschews common sense and pursues strategery in many situations that cause tremendous harm.  Not everything is a political campaign - when you are an office-holder at times you need to play defense.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

...Bob Dylan

Online mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 385,464
  • Let's Go Brandon!
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 11:47:38 pm »
If true, he once again let Bush be subjected to countless insults, jokes and ridicule for taking us into a war and not finding any WMDs even to this day.
Proud Supporter of Tunnel to Towers
Support the USO
Democrat Party...the Party of Infanticide

“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
-Matthew 6:34

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2014, 12:37:58 am »
Some say full disclosure about WMDs in Iraq would reveal some came from the US in the first place. Could that be the pitfall, Rove sought to avoid?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Scottftlc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,799
  • Gender: Male
  • Certified free of TDS
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014, 12:41:54 am »
Some say full disclosure about WMDs in Iraq would reveal some came from the US in the first place. Could that be the pitfall, Rove sought to avoid?

That would more than likely implicate Clinton, not Bush.  I would see no political danger from sliming Clinton.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

...Bob Dylan

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014, 12:50:25 am »
That would more than likely implicate Clinton, not Bush.  I would see no political danger from sliming Clinton.
As a matter of fact the war between Iraq and Iran transpired when Reagan and later Bush I were President.

I'm not claiming I know.

But I think the jist of the story is the claim Rove blocked using what to many seemed like valuable evidence.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Politics4us

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014, 01:11:23 am »
As a matter of fact the war between Iraq and Iran transpired when Reagan and later Bush I were President.

I'm not claiming I know.

But I think the jist of the story is the claim Rove blocked using what to many seemed like valuable evidence.

That's a stupid theory. Why would they have launched the war in the first place if they were worried about the U.S. being responsible? The left made those arguments before the launch of the war. George W. Bush was the left's punching bag. Anyone who listens to Rove is dumb. Fox News is a joke for continuing to have him on.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014, 04:50:29 am »
That's a stupid theory. Why would they have launched the war in the first place if they were worried about the U.S. being responsible? The left made those arguments before the launch of the war. George W. Bush was the left's punching bag. Anyone who listens to Rove is dumb. Fox News is a joke for continuing to have him on.
It is not a theory. It is a statement of some information. Following the Iran revolution in 1979, Iraq was our ally, of sorts. We may have given him arms incl. WMDs to use against our new enemy, Iran. They had an 8 year war, with about 1 million killed.

We only turned against Iraq when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990. We eventually went after Saddam after 9/11/2001 over the fear he had nukes. Remember it was WMDs AND nukes.

And Rove is hardly dumb, having guided the only GOP popular vote win for Potus since 1988.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Carling

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,240
  • Gender: Male
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014, 03:54:00 pm »
I remember reports of these WNDs being found.  The left said they were from pre-1991, and were harmless.  Immediately, Bush was mocked for finding what the left called rusted and useless WMDs.  I can't be the only person in the country who remembers it.
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
-----------------------------------------------

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014, 05:08:48 pm »
http://spectator.org/articles/60689/new-york-times-rediscovers-weapons-mass-destruction-iraq

Special Report

The New York Times Rediscovers Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq

Iraq War-era partisan fights aside, the real problem now is that they're under ISIS' control.

By Laurie Mylroie – 10.17.14

What a difference a decade makes! When it was first reported in May 2004 that Saddam-era chemical weapons shells had injured U.S. troops, the editors of the New York Times dismissed that, “Finding some residual weapons that had escaped a large-scale destruction program would be no great surprise and if the chemicals had degraded, no major threat.” Now, a major New York Times report on the issue has been followed by an editorial warning of “A Deadly Legacy in Iraq”: some 5,000 chemical shells have been discovered over the years in Iraq by U.S. or U.S.-trained Iraqi forces. Many more such munitions litter the wreckage of an old Iraqi weapons facility northwest of Baghdad, which the Islamic State captured in June.

It is widely believed that Saddam Hussein maintained no Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) after the 1991 Gulf War. That was the conclusion of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), which issued its final report on the subject a decade ago—in September 2004. The ISG claimed that already in the summer of 1991, just months after the war, Iraq unilaterally destroyed its prohibited WMD. The new Times report suggests that is false.

Indeed, those who had long followed the issue knew that the ISG’s conclusion couldn’t possibly be true—because the U.N. Special Commission (UNSCOM) destroyed tons of proscribed Iraqi material in the years after the war. UNSCOM was the first U.N. weapons inspection body and worked in Iraq from 1991 to 1998. Saddam ended UNSCOM’s troublesome presence by engineering a series of crises, which culminated in its departure shortly before the start of Operation Desert Fox, Bill Clinton’s four-day December 1998 bombing campaign. (UNSCOM was later replaced by a much weaker body that did not even enter Iraq until late 2002.)

Incredibly, the ISG pretty much ignored UNSCOM’s work. UNSCOM’s findings were publicly available. But intelligence analysts often disregard open-source information, although it may be more accurate and relevant than the highly classified material in their own data bases, as former National Security Agency Director Michael Hayden has complained. Rather than build on UNSCOM’s work, the ISG started from scratch.

ISG personnel were not particularly qualified. Managers regularly sent themselves to Iraq, rather than those with more expertise, because they wanted the extra hazard pay. True knowledge of Iraq’s WMD programs lay with UNSCOM, yet UNSCOM personnel were not included in the ISG in its first iteration. David Kay, an Iraq inspector for the International Atomic Energy Agency from 1991 to 1992, was the ISG’s first head. As the reports about Iraqi chemical munitions emerged, Kay dismissed them, saying that experts were in “almost 100 percent agreement” that the material was degraded and no longer dangerous.

The ISG included over 1,000 people, but only “five to ten” could really be considered “genuine experts,” one official complained to this author in late 2003. In early 2004, before much work could have been done, Kay resigned, ostentatiously asserting, “We were all wrong.” Charles Duelfer, formerly UNSCOM’s Deputy Chairman, replaced Kay, but Kay’s brief tenure left enduring problems. It established a party line, which, absent some major and improbable find, was difficult to change. Procedures were flawed. Particularly as interviews with former regime officials and scientists were the ISG’s primary source of information, it was crucial that every effort be made to ensure the accuracy of that information. Under UNSCOM, the chairman personally interviewed key figures. The ISG, however, did not conduct its own interviews. Rather, it provided written questions which were posed to the Iraqi detainees by their handlers, either military police or the FBI. Experienced UNSCOM officials criticized Duelfer for not doing more to correct the ISG’s problems.

Indeed, senior officials in the U.S. and other governments, with no less access to critical information than the ISG, reached a very different conclusion about Iraq’s proscribed weapons: they were moved to Syria, on the eve of the war. Director of National Intelligence, Gen. James Clapper headed the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). In October 2003, Clapper met a group of journalists, telling them that “satellite imagery showing a heavy flow of traffic from Iraq into Syria, just before the American invasion in March, led him to believe that illicit weapons material ‘unquestionably’ had been moved out of Iraq,” the New York Times reported then.

Moshe Ya’alon, Israel’s Defense Minister, was Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Force during OIF. Gen. Ya’alon subsequently said much the same as Gen. Clapper: on the war’s eve, Saddam “transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria. No one went to Syria to find it.” That view was echoed by Iraqi general Georges Sada, former Deputy Chief of Saddam’s Air Force.

But the White House responded with thunderous silence, as senior figures expressed these views. The late Joseph Shattan, an author, journalist, and speechwriter, including for the Bush White House, was one of those unique individuals who genuinely spoke truth to power—and did so with rare good humor. Some four years ago, Shattan published “The Man Who Elected Barack Obama,” in this magazine, holding Karl Rove responsible for the Bush administration’s crucial failure to respond to the Democratic assault on OIF. On Thursday, the Daily Beast echoed his complaint: Rove judged the issue a political loser and thought it best forgotten—without understanding that such a fundamental matter could never be forgotten, as Shattan wrote.

Last Sunday, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Islamic State appears to have used mustard gas in July against Kurdish fighters in Syria. (Defense One subsequently published a similar report.) In June, the Islamic State overran Muthanna, 35 miles northwest of Baghdad, where Saddam’s regime manufactured chemical agents and filled chemical munitions. The Obama administration dismissed the significance of Muthanna’s capture. However, the area, repeatedly bombed, is littered with partially destroyed, rusty, leaking munitions. Potentially, many dangerous chemical shells are now in the hands of the Islamic State.

The Times’ long exposé on Iraq’s chemical munitions, welcome in many respects, is, however, not quite the news the Old Gray Lady seems to think. Already in June 2006, Republican Congressmen pressed the Army to release information on chemical shells found in Iraq. The Army reported that some 500 munitions, containing mustard or sarin nerve agent, had been discovered since May 2004 (the Times’ figure is ten times larger.) The Army report added that such agents, while degrading over time, “remain hazardous and potentially lethal.” The Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Rep. Peter Hoekstra, responded, “Duelfer after 18 months was not able to find this stuff…What does this say about all of the other issues that continue to be raised [such as] stuff transported to Syria?”

Indeed, that is an excellent question, and one for which U.S. authorities have provided no real answer. But the least they can do now is set the political catfights aside. Acknowledge that dangerous material remains in Iraq. Those now confronting the Islamic State need to understand that and take appropriate precautions to minimize the risk to U.S. forces, U.S. allies, and innocent civilians.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,009
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 05:28:15 pm »
Karl Rove! The gift that keeps on giving!  He will go down in history as being the worst thing ever to happen to the 21st century republican party!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 05:36:58 pm »
Karl Rove! The gift that keeps on giving!  He will go down in history as being the worst thing ever to happen to the 21st century republican party!
Rove engineered the ONLY GOP popular vote Potus win in 2004, since 1988.

Like him or not, he's got accomplishments, and almost everybody else is just talk.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline flowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,798
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2014, 05:43:49 pm »
Now I see why this issue has popped up at this time. As usual politics.


Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,009
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014, 05:43:52 pm »
Rove engineered the ONLY GOP popular vote Potus win in 2004, since 1988.

Like him or not, he's got accomplishments, and almost everybody else is just talk.

He has his accomplishments all right and most of them are VERY bad for the long term health of the republic!

What good is winning something if you don't actually change anything afterward?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,384
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: Insiders Blame Rove for Covering Up Iraq’s Real WMD
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014, 06:03:58 pm »
What if......

....Rove, GWB & Co., were waiting until they could have the news do the most good for the Republican party and the country?  Of course it was GWB's contention that "history will vindicate [us]"  Look at it as their own little October Surprise, while we make lemonade out of the lemons the MSM and Democrats have been feeding the nation the past decade."

....Rove decided to be the fall guy?  The realized it may have been a mistake not to defend themselves at ANY charge leveled by the likes of Dick Durbin, John Kerry, et al...calling our soldiers rapists and torturers, etc.., going into homes in the dead of night and terrorizing innocent civilians?

...they threatened the NYT they were going to release the news about soldiers becoming ill handling them, etc., and the NYT felt the need to come out ahead of the story?

...I'm full of crap?   :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 06:05:14 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald