CIA Tortured Suspects 'Until the Point of Death': Report

[mystery-ak]

http://www.newsmax.com/PrintTemplate.aspx/?nodeid=593150


Newsmax
CIA Tortured Suspects 'Until the Point of Death': Report
Monday, September 8, 2014 07:21 AM

 

The CIA tortured Al-Qaida suspects "until the point of death" by drowning them in water-filled baths, Britain's Daily Telegraph reported on Monday, ahead of the publication of a U.S. Senate report on interrogation techniques.

The paper quoted one security source as saying the torture of at least two suspects, including the alleged mastermind of the September 11 attacks Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, went far beyond the waterboarding admitted by the Central Intelligence Agency.

"They weren't just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth," the paper quoted the source as saying, adding: "They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far."

A second source cited by the paper also spoke of the treatment meted out to Mohammed, who is in U.S. military custody in Guantanamo Bay, as well as alleged USS Cole bomber Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, who is also being held at the detention camp on Cuba.

"They got medieval on his a--, and far more so than people realize," the source, said to be familiar with the still-classified accounts of the torture, was quoted as saying.

An upcoming report by the US Senate based on a review of classified CIA documents would "deeply shock" the public because of its graphic portrayal of the extreme interrogation techniques used by the CIA, a third source said.

 

[Atomic Cow]

So?

[Dexter]

So?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/geneva_conventions

[truth_seeker]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/geneva_conventions

Said conventions ONLY apply to legal combatants, which means in recognizable uniform, not hiding among the civilian general population in civilians clothing.

Didn't you know that?

[Dexter]

Said conventions ONLY apply to legal combatants, which means in recognizable uniform, not hiding among the civilian general population in civilians clothing.

Didn't you know that?

It was my understanding that the general consensus was that civilized countries do not torture people to death. You can try to find and justify loopholes, but in the end I think we both know you're just making excuses for barbaric practices that do little but appease the sadistic pleasures of the torturers. It's been shown time and again that such torture methods do not result in more abundant or accurate information from prisoners.



EDIT: "The Geneva Conventions are a series of treaties on the treatment of civilians, prisoners of war (POWs) and soldiers who are otherwise rendered hors de combat, or incapable of fighting."

If they are not legal combatants then they must be civilians. 

[alicewonders]

When I think about all of the suffering that these people are inflicting on the world, frankly, I don't give a damn what they do to them.  To me, it's not about "getting information", it's about ridding the world of monsters - these beasts are not human, in my opinion.  Torture them to death, but make them suffer mightily first - just like they do to their victims.

[ABX]

EDIT: "The Geneva Conventions are a series of treaties on the treatment of civilians, prisoners of war (POWs) and soldiers who are otherwise rendered hors de combat, or incapable of fighting."

If they are not legal combatants then they must be civilians.

I believe because they are fighting on a battlefield not under the legal guise of a state, they are considered mercenaries or unlawful combatant, and afforded no protection under the Geneva Conventions.

[Dexter]

When I think about all of the suffering that these people are inflicting on the world, frankly, I don't give a damn what they do to them.  To me, it's not about "getting information", it's about ridding the world of monsters - these beasts are not human, in my opinion.  Torture them to death, but make them suffer mightily first - just like they do to their victims.

Some of the people being tortured are only suspected of being affiliated with terrorism. Torturing people unnecessarily only brings us down to their level. If we want to be the moral authority we need to act like the moral authority.

[alicewonders]

Some of the people being tortured are only suspected of being affiliated with terrorism. Torturing people unnecessarily only brings us down to their level. If we want to be the moral authority we need to act like the moral authority.

That's not the way you win wars. War is hell.  Innocents die along with the guilty, that's just the way it is.  Go in it to win it and get the hell out. 

We're not doing it to be a moral authority, we're doing it for self-defense.  We have to kill them before they kill us.  It's war. 

[Dexter]

That's not the way you win wars. War is hell.  Innocents die along with the guilty, that's just the way it is.  Go in it to win it and get the hell out. 

We're not doing it to be a moral authority, we're doing it for self-defense.  We have to kill them before they kill us.  It's war.

Torturing people to the point of death in no way helps us win any wars.

[truth_seeker]

Some of the people being tortured are only suspected of being affiliated with terrorism. Torturing people unnecessarily only brings us down to their level. If we want to be the moral authority we need to act like the moral authority.

How many people have we beheaded? Zero. How many people have we tortured to death? Zero.

By those common sense metrics, we are morally sound.

I went through various training experiences, that scared me, but I lived. If my mortal enemy during war is scared, I shed no tears.

If my mortal enemy is involved with terrorism against innocent civilians, and by scaring him some, we save many lives  it is entirely justified.

[alicewonders]

Torturing people to the point of death in no way helps us win any wars.

I couldn't torture someone to death unless they had done something so heinous to someone I love, or to people that I love.  I don't know who these "torturers" are, but I bet they have known people personally that died because of what the things that this terrorist is alleged to have done.

I wouldn't think a man would be in that situation (tortured to death by our people) unless they had a pretty damned good idea that this person was affiliated with that kind of evil.  I don't think our people start out wanting to torture - it comes out from an extreme anger directed at a monster.  These people choose to kill innocents.  If someone is on that table - there's a pretty clear reason they're there.

[Dexter]

How many people have we beheaded? Zero. How many people have we tortured to death? Zero.

By those common sense metrics, we are morally sound.

This very article is talking about the CIA torturing people to death, and you would be naive to believe they are the only ones.

[Dexter]

I couldn't torture someone to death unless they had done something so heinous to someone I love, or to people that I love.  I don't know who these "torturers" are, but I bet they have known people personally that died because of what the things that this terrorist is alleged to have done.

I wouldn't think a man would be in that situation (tortured to death by our people) unless they had a pretty damned good idea that this person was affiliated with that kind of evil.  I don't think our people start out wanting to torture - it comes out from an extreme anger directed at a monster.  These people choose to kill innocents.  If someone is on that table - there's a pretty clear reason they're there.

Maybe it is worth looking into all of the details? Also, monsters are created, not born.

[musiclady]

That's not the way you win wars. War is hell.  Innocents die along with the guilty, that's just the way it is.  Go in it to win it and get the hell out. 

We're not doing it to be a moral authority, we're doing it for self-defense.  We have to kill them before they kill us.  It's war.

The left thinks we can just sing Kumbaya together with the enemy and all will be well.

The concept of the reality of war never enters their heads....   

[Dexter]

The concept of the reality of war never enters their heads....   

The reality of war is what altered my perspective on the matter.

[alicewonders]

Maybe it is worth looking into all of the details? Also, monsters are created, not born.

Yeah, we all come into the world completely innocent - but some of us turn evil, while the rest of us don't.  Most people that have endured some pretty horrible shit don't turn evil - but some do - and even worse, some people have a pretty good life and still turn evil.

Once you turn evil - there's no rehabilitation, no mercy, no humanity - you obliterate evil. 

[Dexter]

Once you turn evil - there's no rehabilitation, no mercy, no humanity - you obliterate evil.

Does torture need to be a part of that process? What about the suspected terrorists that are innocent but still being tortured?

[alicewonders]

Does torture need to be a part of that process? What about the suspected terrorists that are innocent but still being tortured?

It's sad, but they're casualties of war.  I don't think that is happening very often though. 

[Dexter]

It's sad, but they're casualties of war.  I don't think that is happening very often though.

What about the first part? Even for the bad ones, does torture and suffering need to be part of their departure from this world? Are we not better than that? I thought retribution was God's job.

[rb224315]

I don't know the legal ins-and-outs but here's my take on torture:  whether or not an act is torture depends on the intent of the person committing the act.  When a person is harmed or believes they are or will be harmed and it's done for sport or meanness or just pure evil, that's torture.  When a person has information the divulging of which will save the lives of innocent people and/or those who are my allies, then I don't give a rat's rear end what happens to him.  If he's withholding information because he knows withholding it will likely lead to the deaths of my allies then he has a choice.  He gets vigorous interrogation only if he doesn't talk.  I understand that there is a line which can be crossed, and if that line is crossed then people should be punished.  If interrogation turns to abuse committed just for the sick, twisted thrill of hurting someone, that's torture.

[musiclady]

Does torture need to be a part of that process? What about the suspected terrorists that are innocent but still being tortured?

You seem to be forgetting that the torture resulted in the gleaning of information that saved lives.  It wasn't just torture for the fun of it.

And you also seem to be unaware of the depth of evil of KSM.

He doesn't deserve your sympathy, Dex.

He killed thousands of innocent people.

Don't shed tears that he thought he was going to drown............ but didn't.

[Dexter]

I don't know the legal ins-and-outs but here's my take on torture:  whether or not an act is torture depends on the intent of the person committing the act.  When a person is harmed or believes they are or will be harmed and it's done for sport or meanness or just pure evil, that's torture.  When a person has information the divulging of which will save the lives of innocent people and/or those who are my allies, then I don't give a rat's rear end what happens to him.  If he's withholding information because he knows withholding it will likely lead to the deaths of my allies then he has a choice.  He gets vigorous interrogation only if he doesn't talk.  I understand that there is a line which can be crossed, and if that line is crossed then people should be punished.  If interrogation turns to abuse committed just for the sick, twisted thrill of hurting someone, that's torture.

What about people that legitimately don't know anything? Soldiers in our military are informed on a need to know basis, so why would we assume it is any different for them? You don't need to torture somebody to the point of death to get them to divulge whatever information they have.

[alicewonders]

What about the first part? Even for the bad ones, does torture and suffering need to be part of their departure from this world? Are we not better than that? I thought retribution was God's job.

No, it's better that they just be killed quickly on the field of battle.  I assume if someone is taken in for "questioning", they must have a good idea that they might get some kind of information.  I assume that kind of treatment is reserved for the "special" ones.  IF someone gets tortured to the point of death (like you, I should look into the details, I'm proceeding on the assumption that this article is correct), I'm OK with trusting that the questioners were not enjoying the torture, but that dealing with this individual was so enraging that the questioning got fierce. 

The people that are involved in this kind of stuff have seen such things.........I'm not going to second-guess them.  They're dealing with monsters and I'm not worried about niceties. 

Are we above that?  Nah, it's human nature and that's the way God made us.  It's pretty clear that God designed our world so that the strong among us survive.  Not the nice, not the polite, not the morally superior, not the more civilized - the STRONG. 

[Dexter]

Are we above that?  Nah, it's human nature and that's the way God made us.  It's pretty clear that God designed our world so that the strong among us survive.  Not the nice, not the polite, not the morally superior, not the more civilized - the STRONG.

Do you think Jesus would have agreed with this sentiment?