Author Topic: We’re Doomed. Permission to panic sir  (Read 177 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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We’re Doomed. Permission to panic sir
« on: June 18, 2025, 05:59:30 am »
We’re Doomed
Permission to panic sir

Posted on 16 Jun 25
by John Ridgway
 
In the summer of 1969, a young astrophysics graduate, J. Richard Gott III, was touring Europe and found himself gazing upon the Berlin Wall. Pondering just how long it would take before it would finally be pulled down, he turned to his touring companion and confidently proclaimed that it would last at least two and two thirds more years but no more than 24. In 1987, President Reagan said ‘Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!’, and within five years the wall was gone. That’s within 23 years of Gott making his 24 year prediction.

So was Gott a crack political analyst, or did he possess a crystal ball? Neither, in fact. He was simply employing a principle he had learned at college, i.e. that we have no reason to presuppose that we occupy a special place in the universe. This principle, known as the Copernican principle, can be applied in both space and time, and is not restricted to cosmological questions. Gott just reasoned that he shouldn’t assume he was living in any special epoch as far as the Berlin Wall was concerned. That is to say, he wasn’t likely to be living during the very early life of a long surviving edifice, nor at the very end of a shorter-lived one. The likelihood instead was that the wall’s future would be as long as its past (to be precise, the probabilities would take the form of a normal distribution centred upon Gott’s Copernican judgement).

In 1993 Gott submitted a paper to Nature describing his reasoning (which he referred to as the ‘delta t argument’) and, much to everyone’s horror, Nature accepted it. Experts of all persuasions dismissed it as facile numerology, unworthy of a prestigious magazine’s attention. The problem, however, is that the technique works, and has been successful in predicting everything from Broadway show runs to the future value of stock market investments. Indeed, the idea has been independently developed by others in a number of forms (all of them essentially variations on Bayesian reasoning). The techniques now go by the name Doomsday Argument, principally because they are used to predict how much longer we can expect the human race to survive.

https://cliscep.com/2025/06/16/were-doomed/
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth.  George Washington - Farewell Address

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: We’re Doomed. Permission to panic sir
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2025, 08:09:57 am »
To start with, 99% (+) of all species present on the planet in its history are believed extinct. That doesn't mean there aren't occasional holdouts, like Latimeria
which had been believed extinct for 70 million years, until someone pulled one up in a fishing net, but it does mean that for whatever reason, an overwhelming number of critters that used to be, no longer are, except for their preserved remains; remains which are not generally the soft tissues of that cultural or biological organism, but the 'hard parts' which are most easily  preserved.

We see frequent reports of the excavation of entire social, economic, political systems ("civilizations") which have, too left their 'hard parts' remaining as a sort of cultural fossil, even though they are of our same species, and at times, are even defeated in our attempts to recognize and decipher their writings-at least the ones which survived the demise of the civilization, often carved in stone. (I am reminded of A Canticle for Leibowitz, fiction to be sure, but a fine fictional example of the efforts to decipher surviving scraps and a future built around them.)

The assumption that humans are somehow immune to the existential roulette at which other, less intelligent or technological species have lost all, is based on our ability to think and therefore adapt, through the use of game-changing technologies to continue our existence, whether that adaptation be finding ways to keep the 'cave' warm, or to gather food more efficiently and even control the process of growing it.
 
Most of our adaptation has been centered, ultimately, around the basics: food, shelter from the elements, water (preferably uncontaminated by all the nasty things that can kill us, from naturally occurring poisons to our own biological waste), air to breathe (that also will not kill us), clothing that allows mobility, and enhanced means of getting around (primarily for the purpose of obtaining resources), and enough social interaction to facilitate all of the above.

We have developed means of altering (or through relocation, moving to more favorable) environments, which we have relied on for the production of the things we see as necessary (and some of which are existential needs), and thus consider ourselves (with a dash of Darwin) to be more advanced than other life forms. 

Historically, when social groups are at an impasse over the allocation of resources, they try bargain for, and if that fails, to destroy each other to take over or defend those resources, but ultimately, it devolves to food, shelter, clothing, water, and survival.

With our ability to think (sometimes a blessing, sometimes a curse), we have decided through our Anthropomorhphic religions that we, indeed are the Children of God, and, well, special.

We are special, and I believe that while we were created in God's image, if we fail to fall within certain parameters of behaviour, we invite not His Grace but can follow the path of the Fallen, (all documented in the various cultural manifestations of our deities).
 
The things generally defined as 'sin' certainly and predictably lead to cultural and social instability, reflected in the conduct of nations, and with rare enough exception, our whole species. In context, virtually all of the rules laid down in religions and social constructs we consider based on 'good' enable humans to survive and thrive in their environments, governing things which promote good health and harmony among those individuals which make up the community, tribe, nation, or even, the species.

In short, we are not immune to extinction (at least as cultural units, and perhaps as a species) any more than a species of Missippian Brachiopod that was incapable of dredging the channel to its section of dominated seafloor and too immobile to relocate to continue to survive.

We complicate the basics of survival with multiple layers of self-imposed complexity, considering ourselves far superior to our hunter-gatherer forebears, but all we have done is create a complex system of existence with an exponentially increased number of points of failure--points which, while seemingly insignificant, could have serious ramifications for our continued survival, or even end it.

The more complex these systems get, the more vulnerable they are, and therein is writ our fate. Add in the human element, and our survival might depend, ultimately, on the functioning of a relay, or something thwarted by spilled cup of coffee.

Movies like Dr. Strangelove and Fail Safe are attempts to indicate how small things (including human failings) can have sweeping consequences, but those classics are no longer considered relevant because we have machines to do the thinking. (AI already blames those failings, not on the malfunctioning of machines, but the humans using them, a seemingly minor but significant effect, even though we are talking about fiction.)

Even the idea of the machines achieving self-awareness and deciding that humans are the weak link (Colossus: The Forbin Project, Terminator-the whole franchise predicated on humans being the threat to the machines, and a host of other fictional speculations)--and if the machines are to survive, humans must be eliminated, have been pooh-poohed as the speculative ravings of imaginative, if unrealistic minds. But even with warnings writ large (Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series comes to mind, or the Borg of Star Trek), we assume ourselves immune to being hoist upon our own technological petards, with the exception of raising the temperature of a planet a couple of degrees C.

Yet we increasingly rely on those selfsame machines to do what passes for thinking in our modern world, limited only by thus far the abilities of the programmers and modelers to lay in the basic axioms that ultimately govern the outcome. GIGO remains relevant, and the more smug we are about how correct our input is, the more likely we are to get it wrong. The Dunning Krueger effect is on full display.

Are we doomed?

Oh, most certainly.
We have predicted it.
We have seen it.
It has been prophesied.
We have preached it.
Even our most patient and benevolent God has His limits (The Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and a number of documented other events).

If not a simple physical and natural event, as routine as the collision of celestial bodies, or some competition for the planet by a species we consider 'lesser' and beyond our serious consideration (H.G. Wells' planet saving germ), then by our own hand.


We will all die someday. The quintessential human struggle is to make sure that day is not today, and that we don't all die at the same time.

Stay calm. We can always panic later. (Well, maybe).

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis