Go-Bag: Gassifying twig stove

[roamer_1]

@Smokin Joe

Just the opposite. Diesels last a lot longer than gas engines,and diesel fuel doesn't go "flat" like gasoline fuel,and has no water in it.

@sneakypete

Well, sorta. I already said they run good and they run long. That ain't the argument. I said when they DO quit, they fifteen-hundred-dollar you to death. And that is just a fact. And btw the fuel may not go flat, but it sure goes bad up in here. Store diesel too long and the anti-gel stuff in it (winter mix year around up in here) coagulates and will jamb you up good. Now, it does store longer than gas - even stabilized gas... But it ain't forever unless you are burning kerosene.

The only two fuels I am aware of that last near indefinitely are kerosene and propane.

Not to mention the fact that there is far less to go wrong,since the ignition system is a fuel pump,glow plugs,and compression.

Computer. End of story. That ain't quite fair. I have a 12v Cummins burnin a hole in my pocket. I have come pretty close to cutting up an old chevy 2T hay truck, throwing military axles under it and a dumping flatbed, and with that cummins, that would be  hella stout pickup.

But for all that I nearly might do it, that is so overdone as to be a bit laughable - I don't need all that for a brush truck. I ain't hauling a D6 out of the woods. All that hell-for-stout is lost on me. But if I were to finally go diesel, that would be the one and only. Analog.

On top of that,diesels make insane amounts of torque,and the power is down low,which reduces RPM's as well as wear and tear. Not unusual at all to get 400 thousand miles out of a diesel pu.

Don't need all that. And I will take a rebuild every 125k for 600 bucks or so over what it costs to rebuild a diesel any day.

Mine is an O6 GMC,which was the last year before the ferally-required fuel additives. The new ones won't even start if the additive tank is empty. No smog equipment of any type,and it has 665 foot lbs of torque at less than 4,000 RPM's. I have pulled trailers with loads up to 3 tons cross country with the cruise control engaged,and forget that I have anything behind me.

Good on ya. But other than mine being tall geared for mileage, I have had plenty of chevy small blocks that can go down the road with that kind of load and not know it's there. If I was hauling, I would change out to a 3/4T heavy or a 1T... With a pickup on a trailer behind me we'd be neck and neck. You ain't talking a load till you are hauling 4 horses or something. THEN you could walk it. But a porker will fix that (other than the mileage)

I also hate lift kits,so that was an automatic disqualifier.

Hate em all you want - Most woods trucks up in here are lifted. There is a reason for that.


But the reason I gave you is that I don't want anything breaking down way out in the woods that I can't fix way out in the woods. That ain't a diesel. They break, you tow em home. That's a chore when you are 30 miles off the gravel. I have replaced pistons and clutches in the sticks. It is often easier to throw a camp and fix em there than it would be to figure out how to haul em out.

Thanks anyway. As long as I can, I will stick to simple, carbureted motors.

[roamer_1]

Yep! The boonies are the place for the K.I.S.S. principle.

That's right.
 

[roamer_1]

Well, back on topic...

I called up the feller that owns Silverfire. Wanted to get exact dimensions to be sure it would fit in my bush pot.

Had a long talk with him - He makes a hot tent stove I am interested in too. But he told me he can't get at them. Tumpy's China tariff shut him OFF. He has not filled inventory since then. He paid for one container because he had to (already on the way) and it cost him an extra 30k because of the tariff. So basically he is hardly breaking even on all the stock he has in. And he don't expect it to let up under Biteme either.

Two things in that: It is an American company, but it's products are made in China.
And if something doesn't change between now and then, he is folding up in the fall.

That bums me out on both counts.

And... He's a vet.
On top of that, he told me I would be better off with the 304 stove rather than the economy. The economy is their original model and is inferior - It will tend to warp around with use due to heating and cooling, and some design issues. He says it is good enough for weekend warriors and such, but he said if I am planning on using it hardcore, get the newer version. It is more robust, has five posts in the pot stand, and an extra ring welded around the top to beef it up and settle down the warping.

So because I am a professional, the 304... Around 75 bucks.

Sh*t.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

 

Don't need all that. And I will take a rebuild every 125k for 600 bucks or so over what it costs to rebuild a diesel any day.


And you will rebuilt 3,or maybe even 4 of them before the diesel will need to be rebuilt.


Good on ya. But other than mine being tall geared for mileage, I have had plenty of chevy small blocks that can go down the road with that kind of load and not know it's there.

HorseHillary! I drove too many gasoline-powered pickups pulling trailers to fall for that.

Your gas engines won't even have half the torque of a modern V-8 or inline 6 diesel,and torque is what moves the load and pulls up the hills. My 2006 GMC diesel has 665 ft lbs of torque at 1600 RPM. There is no way in hell your V-8 gasoline GM engines can even come close to matching that,and at such a low RPM number.



 With a pickup on a trailer behind me we'd be neck and neck. You ain't talking a load till you are hauling 4 horses or something.

HorseHillary. 4 Horses don't even weigh as much as the half-ton pu and the 2 ton flatbed I hauled back from North Dakota. Or even the just the 2 ton flatbed.

And that ain't even addressing the pulling all that weight up mountains and hills.

You also don't have a 6 speed Allison transmission with overdrive.

 

Hate em all you want - Most woods trucks up in here are lifted. There is a reason for that.

It has nothing to do with hating them. I DO admit to having nothing but contempt for all the posers around here who run around with trucks so lifted you can almost walk under them,and all the do is drive them back and forth to work in the city. I can see enough lift to give you adequate tire clearance for wider/taller tires,but I see lots of people driving around in lifted trucks whose heads barely come up to then door bottoms,and they have to open the door by remote control and climb up a ladder to get in it. No way in hell you can do any actual work with a truck like that,anymore than you can take that same truck you drive to work and win mud races with it.


But the reason I gave you is that I don't want anything breaking down way out in the woods that I can't fix way out in the woods.

Since diesel engines are basically the same design as gasoline engines,but use compression to run the engine,they don't even have a real ignition system other than glow plugs and the starter. Since a lot of "won't start" problems are related to the ignition,this is a plus in the favor of diesels.

As for the computers,all the modern trucks have them,and if I lived where you live,it is likely I would carry a new one still in the box around with me as a spare.

Granted,you CAN remove the computer and associated wiring and other doo-dahs from a gas truck and revert to points and plugs,but I don't see that as much of an advantage because you can do the same with a diesel if you want. It IS probably a lot cheaper to do this with a gas engine,though. Never really researched it with the diesel. Or cared to.

That ain't a diesel. They break, you tow em home.

HorseHillary! There are mechanics that do diesel engine repairs alongside the road every day.

That's a chore when you are 30 miles off the gravel.

That is true regardless of what you are operating,but there can be no question that "simpler is better" in that case. I see no reason why a diesel truck would be any more of a problem than a gasoline truck in those circumstances.

Other than batteries,that is. Takes a LOT of amps to crank over a diesel,and if you lose a battery,you might be screwed.

 I have replaced pistons and clutches in the sticks. It is often easier to throw a camp and fix em there than it would be to figure out how to haul em out.


I agree.

Thanks anyway. As long as I can, I will stick to simple, carbureted motors.

If it makes you happy,I am happy for you. I have no desire to ever again own a gasoline powered truck unless it is something like the 400 dollar "beater" Ranger pu I  use to haul trash with and for other local stuff to keep from putting too many miles on my diesel. My days of buying new trucks are over,and I never did have any "buying 60 thousand dollar truck days".

The GMC Diesel I have now will last longer than I will,and in fact,I have people standing in line wanting to buy it for more than I paid for it.

[roamer_1]

And you will rebuilt 3,or maybe even 4 of them before the diesel will need to be rebuilt.

@sneakypete

SO what? I've got 600 bucks laying around anytime. That don't hardly even hurt. Can't ever say that working on a diesel. And I bet when it does go, It will cost more than those three or four times I built mine. maybe twice that. All at once. POW! Right in the kisser.

And that ain't even taking into account that the motor might be chunked. If I chunk a 350, I can get another one to build for a couple hundred bucks and a cold pack of PBRs... Can't say nothing near that for a diesel either.

Your gas engines won't even have half the torque of a modern V-8 or inline 6 diesel,and torque is what moves the load and pulls up the hills. My 2006 GMC diesel has 665 ft lbs of torque at 1600 RPM. There is no way in hell your V-8 gasoline GM engines can even come close to matching that,and at such a low RPM number.

So what? I don't need all that. Look, most anything I do is hauled on a car trailer. Maybe if I was hauling a backhoe around you'd have a point. But overkill. I got all the haul I need. After that it's about scoot. And I got all of that too.

Maybe that is part of your dilemma - You might think I run stock motors. I do not.

And btw, hang a 205/208 doubler tcase in my truck, and I will drag your truck all over the parking lot with my itty bitty tree fitty. I have done it before. You want torque? Gears do that.

And btw. GVW on a horse trailer can easy be 10k - Four horses would limit out a car trailer. Especially Clydes.

You also don't have a 6 speed Allison transmission with overdrive.

Yep. Next 5spd I get I am keeping. But that would be so I could comfortably go back to 4:55s... Back to 1T land. Otherwise, I really don't need it. not much good on mountain highways. I would rather spend that money on lockers and that 205/208 Doubler I was talking about. They'd do me more good.

It has nothing to do with hating them.
[...] I can see enough lift to give you adequate tire clearance for wider/taller tires,but I see lots of people driving around in lifted trucks whose heads barely come up to then door bottoms,and they have to open the door by remote control and climb up a ladder to get in it. No way in hell you can do any actual work with a truck like that,anymore than you can take that same truck you drive to work and win mud races with it.

I have had trucks with 13-16" of lift, and 37-44" tires, and I would go back to it in a New York minute if I could. That tall boy will go places in 2wd your truck (or any other) couldn't go with 4wd and chains.

Just in snow - I have jumped out of my truck and went hip deep in the snow. See them fat ol swampers put you on top of snow, just like snow shoes. Same with loose snow - I won't be dragging body till you are in over your hood. Same in mud, Same in water. And I probably won't tip as fast either.

The real problem with em is that they so outpace anything else that the only thing that can help you in trouble is another skyjacker (or a skidder or a cat). Nothing else can even come close.

Since diesel engines are basically the same design as gasoline engines,but use compression to run the engine,they don't even have a real ignition system other than glow plugs and the starter. Since a lot of "won't start" problems are related to the ignition,this is a plus in the favor of diesels.

Not really - I carry plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, and all I need to rebuild an HEI distributor onboard. Cheap and easy.

As for the computers,all the modern trucks have them,and if I lived where you live,it is likely I would carry a new one still in the box around with me as a spare.

That is a mighty expensive venture. Better not to need one...

Granted,you CAN remove the computer and associated wiring and other doo-dahs from a gas truck and revert to points and plugs,but I don't see that as much of an advantage because you can do the same with a diesel if you want. It IS probably a lot cheaper to do this with a gas engine,though. Never really researched it with the diesel. Or cared to.

No, you really can't. That is an act of Congress. A full gut, end to end. And most of the drive train won't work without a pooter Nor will the dash. So the way you do that is gut it all and go old school, which puts me right back in my beloved square bodies without all that dang work.

That is true regardless of what you are operating,but there can be no question that "simpler is better" in that case. I see no reason why a diesel truck would be any more of a problem than a gasoline truck in those circumstances.

The cost of parts. Like I said, they fifteen-hundred-dollar you to death. Next.

If it makes you happy,I am happy for you. I have no desire to ever again own a gasoline powered truck unless it is something like the 400 dollar "beater" Ranger pu I  use to haul trash with and for other local stuff to keep from putting too many miles on my diesel. My days of buying new trucks are over,and I never did have any "buying 60 thousand dollar truck days".

Well the most I have ever paid for a ride is 3500 bucks. And most way less than half of that. I have flipped spendier iron, but I don't drive it. More than likely it is something I paid five hundred for, that is kinda straight and has good bones...  Now I may throw a few grand at it to jack it up (power and height) and tires every time... But I can easy work in less than 10k with all the bells and whistles - Usually way less than that.

The one I am in now was part of a trade for my last high boy. And I got enough out of that in cash alone to buy me out of it - So the truck was basically free. She's getting tired now, but she don't owe me a thing.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

SO what? I've got 600 bucks laying around anytime. That don't hardly even hurt. Can't ever say that working on a diesel. And I bet when it does go, It will cost more than those three or four times I built mine. maybe twice that. All at once. POW! Right in the kisser.

And that ain't even taking into account that the motor might be chunked. If I chunk a 350, I can get another one to build for a couple hundred bucks and a cold pack of PBRs... Can't say nothing near that for a diesel either.

So what? I don't need all that. Look, most anything I do is hauled on a car trailer. Maybe if I was hauling a backhoe around you'd have a point. But overkill. I got all the haul I need. After that it's about scoot. And I got all of that too.

Maybe that is part of your dilemma - You might think I run stock motors. I do not.

And btw, hang a 205/208 doubler tcase in my truck, and I will drag your truck all over the parking lot with my itty bitty tree fitty. I have done it before. You want torque? Gears do that.

No,engine design does that. Gears are just a multiplier. If it were just gears,you would see gasoline tractor trailers pulling loads all over the country,and gasoline powered farm equipment and backhoes.

Gears and TORQUE do that,as well as weight. I have 3:73 gears and posi-traction in both front and rear axles on my truck,my truck weighs a lot more than yours,and I also have 665 ft lbs of torque. It is torque and gearing that moves the load,not horsepower.

And my truck is stock. No modifications.

And btw. GVW on a horse trailer can easy be 10k - Four horses would limit out a car trailer. Especially Clydes.

My trailer is a backhoe trailer.

Yep. Next 5spd I get I am keeping. But that would be:l so I could comfortably go back to 4:55s... Back to 1T land. Otherwise, I really don't need it. not much good on mountain highways. I would rather spend that money on lockers and that 205/208 Doubler I was talking about. They'd do me more good.
I have had trucks with 13-16" of lift, and 37-44" tires, and I would go back to it in a New York minute if I could. That tall boy will go places in 2wd your truck (or any other) couldn't go with 4wd and chains.

My truck is a road truck. I have never tried to claim it was anything else,and you just can't build up a half-ton pu with a 350 engine to do what my truck will do when it comes to highway hauling. Or anywhere else if I were to put a lift kit and big tires on it.

Just in snow - I have jumped out of my truck and went hip deep in the snow. See them fat ol swampers put you on top of snow, just like snow shoes. Same with loose snow - I won't be dragging body till you are in over your hood. Same in mud, Same in water. And I probably won't tip as fast either.

The real problem with em is that they so outpace anything else that the only thing that can help you in trouble is another skyjacker (or a skidder or a cat). Nothing else can even come close.

Not really - I carry plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, and all I need to rebuild an HEI distributor onboard. Cheap and easy.

That is a mighty expensive venture. Better not to need one...

No, you really can't. That is an act of Congress. A full gut, end to end. And most of the drive train won't work without a pooter Nor will the dash. So the way you do that is gut it all and go old school, which puts me right back in my beloved square bodies without all that dang work.

The cost of parts. Like I said, they fifteen-hundred-dollar you to death. Next.

Well the most I have ever paid for a ride is 3500 bucks. And most way less than half of that. I have flipped spendier iron, but I don't drive it. More than likely it is something I paid five hundred for, that is kinda straight and has good bones...  Now I may throw a few grand at it to jack it up (power and height) and tires every time... But I can easy work in less than 10k with all the bells and whistles - Usually way less than that.

The one I am in now was part of a trade for my last high boy. And I got enough out of that in cash alone to buy me out of it - So the truck was basically free. She's getting tired now, but she don't owe me a thing.

[roamer_1]

No,engine design does that. Gears are just a multiplier. If it were just gears,you would see gasoline tractor trailers pulling loads all over the country,and gasoline powered farm equipment and backhoes.

Gears and TORQUE do that,as well as weight. I have 3:73 gears and posi-traction in both front and rear axles on my truck,my truck weighs a lot more than yours,and I also have 665 ft lbs of torque. It is torque and gearing that moves the load,not horsepower.

I have lockers. Honest all wheel drive.

Gears are a multiplier. Alright. Think that through. Because power and torque multiplies the lower the gear TOO. Think of the difference between your 3:73s and hanging 4:55s in them pots? What happens? Top speed goes down, and torque and power go up. Better out of the hole.

Now a doubler in low-low is 1:94 x 1:94 - Understand that's low range TWICE. It won't go three miles an hour wound clean out, but it will pull a house in two to do it. CRAZY power. CRAZY torque. and I get rap... high r's, right where that 350 loves to be.
 
Gears are more important than anything - give me enough leverage and I can move the world. All a gear is is radial leverage.

All the rest is nonsense. and I have already proven it. In front of crowds. Well almost nonsense. You are right about weight, but only as a coefficient to traction - I can overcome your weight if I have more power, torque and traction. And I will.

Don't feel bad. The last guy made the same mistake... The one I drug around the parking lot with his Powersmoke..

And I did too, when I got my ass handed to me by a straight six way back in the day... I mounted the same arguments and lost.

The reason it is not applied is for the same reason most of the torque you possess is relatively wasted. The fractional speed offered by the doubler makes it pretty well useless (incidental) for any normal operation. nobody uses low:low:low... It is what it does - But that is not what it is for. Ultimately, that doubler is used for climbing - slow, controlled climbing. because you get 16 gears instead of the eight you would normally get out of a 4 speed with a tcase (and 4 gears in reverse). But that crazy stupid low is there. And man does it work. It's a stump-puller.

Gears do it all.

And my truck is stock. No modifications.

So what?

My trailer is a backhoe trailer.

Again, so what? I already told you I have no need for that.

My truck is a road truck. I have never tried to claim it was anything else,and you just can't build up a half-ton pu with a 350 engine to do what my truck will do when it comes to highway hauling. Or anywhere else if I were to put a lift kit and big tires on it.

LOL! Whatever dude. What I got is what I want, and serves me best.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Just the opposite. Diesels last a lot longer than gas engines,and diesel fuel doesn't go "flat" like gasoline fuel,and has no water in it.

Not to mention the fact that there is far less to go wrong,since the ignition system is a fuel pump,glow plugs,and compression.

On top of that,diesels make insane amounts of torque,and the power is down low,which reduces RPM's as well as wear and tear. Not unusual at all to get 400 thousand miles out of a diesel pu.

Mine is an O6 GMC,which was the last year before the ferally-required fuel additives. The new ones won't even start if the additive tank is empty. No smog equipment of any type,and it has 665 foot lbs of torque at less than 4,000 RPM's. I have pulled trailers with loads up to 3 tons cross country with the cruise control engaged,and forget that I have anything behind me.

I have mine for a work truck,not a weekend toy or a show piece and I live in the flatlands,so I went out of my way to find one with 3:73 gears. NOT an easy thing to find. Most seem to have 4:11 or 4:56 gears.

I also hate lift kits,so that was an automatic disqualifier.

I spent a while searching on the web for one that met my requirements,and other than it not being white,the one I bought was perfect. Had something like 95k miles on it. I had to make a 3,000 mile round trip to pick it up and bring it home,but I am glad I did it. No real problem. My car at the time was one of those tiny Chevy panel trucks (HHR?) with the 4 cylinder engine,so I just drove it to buy the GMC Diesel,then rented a trailer to tow it home behind the truck.

Had the truck maybe 8 years now,and people are constantly wanting to buy it from me. Most of them seem to be people with horse trailers. I have been offered a few thousand more than I paid for it 8 years ago because a new one now with all the smog control and fuel additive starts at about 60 grand.

Spending 60 grand or more on a pu truck is ok if it is essential to your work/business,but to ME,that seems like a hell of a lot of money to spend on a truck you mostly use on weekends.

If *I* spend 60 grand on a vehicle just to ride in,it is likely to be a Porsche.

BTW,from what I understand,the new diesel pu's all now make more than 1,000 ft lbs of torque! Even as much as I LOVE massive amounts of torque,I just don't see me spending that kind of money on a truck to ride around in.

BTW,I didn't like diesel pu's either,until one time my gas pu was down for some reason,and I borrowed a friends 1 ton diesel pu to make a 3,000+ mile round trip to pulling an equipment trailer to pick up a 1939 IHC "art deco" pu I had bought.

I knew I just HAD to have a diesel pu before I even got halfway there. Now the guy that lent me his diesel pu is offering me cash in advance to put him at the front of the line to buy mine when I put it up for sale. He is retired now from his big rock statue business,and just can't justify spending 60+ grand on a new pu.

He now builds guns instead of statues. He had never even shot a gun before he met me,and once I exposed them to him,he liked them so much he asked me to teach him gunsmithing. He is now a federally-licensed gun manufacturer.

Well, the reason you are being offered so much for yours is that the older diesels are made of unobtainium.

Modern ones have so much gee whiz stuff, not to mention the DEF bit, that that's a disqualifier for me.

If I could find an older one in decent shape for the right money, where you just have to change filters now and then, I might consider it, if only because diesel fuel is a direct distillate from crude oil (granted, without the additives) and far easier to make in a usable grade than gasoline if the necessity arises.

But the new ones have to have DEF, have turbos that produce that horsepower (and which eventually have expensive problems) and a host of emissions related electronics that make them powerful and 'clean', but at the price of maintaining all that network of sensors and the computers to drive them.

I admit an old gas engine with a carburetor isn't as nice as fuel injected, nor quite as reliable, but I cut my teeth on North Dakota Winters working the choke and warming the engine up before going anywhere, so i can handle that--and the bare bones engine doesn't have that mess of sensors or the computer to run it. Maybe not as efficient, might have to be rebuilt every 100K miles or so (though I have rebuilt one 350 with 128,000 miles on it now since--oil and filter changes are key), and I have rebuilt a few carburetors in my time, too. I can handle that as long as I can find the fuel.

I am looking for something that will get me around the rest of my life, and I only rarely pull a trailer.

[sneakypete]

Well, the reason you are being offered so much for yours is that the older diesels are made of unobtainium.

Modern ones have so much gee whiz stuff, not to mention the DEF bit, that that's a disqualifier for me.

 

@Smokin Joe

Yeah,mine is the last year before that stuff was required. It was also a one-owner truck with only 95 k miles on it.  It also had every option I wanted and none I didn't want. Had the original wheels and regular road tires on it. Never been modified in any way other than a grille guard up front and running boards.

The only repairs I have had to make it in all the time I have owned it was a brake job on all 4 wheels. It has disc brakes front and rear,and they would still stop the truck ok,but it took a lot of leg to do it. Ended up having to replace both front calipers. Other than that and a set of replacement batteries a couple of years ago,that is all I have had to do to it other than the standard oil and filter changes,and grease jobs.

Getting old and stiff now,so I am getting ready to have a shop put a hydraulic lift gate on it instead of the stock tailgate,which was damaged when I forgot to put it up and parked in a grocery store parking lot,and somebody ran into it while I was inside shopping. Didn't even notice until I tried to put it up and latch it.

Love the HELL out of that thing. I can lower it all the way to the ground,and then stand on it and have it lift me up high enough I can just step into the bed without having to test the condition of my back and knees that day. Of course,I can do the same to get back down to the ground. Little things like that are important once you become a geezer.

The hydraulic lift gate I am going to get put on it is made of plate steel maybe 1/4 inch thick that runs the full length and width of the inside of the bed and bolts to the chassis. Bad things are going to happen to any vehicle that runs into the back of my truck in the future.

I actually drove to another state and bought a 1982 Ford F-150 PU with the 300 cube straight 6 and 3 speed + od manual trans,just to get this tailgate that was on it. Only paid 150 bucks for the whole truck and drove it home,so I got a bargain on that buy. Even sold enough non-essential parts off of it that I got all my money back,and can still drive it around if I want.

The ONLY thing I didn't get that I wanted was white paint,but when you are buying used,you almost always have to make sacrifices. I like white because it doesn't get as hot in the summer,and it doesn't show dents or dirt as much as the other colors. I am NOT  a "wash and wax every week guy."

All of which is why I was willing to drive 2,000 miles one way to buy and pick the GMC  up.

It does have a turbo,though. Makes 365 HP and 665 ft lbs of torque,both from less than 5,000 RPM's. Running down the road at 65 mph with 3:73 gears I am only turning a little less than 2,000 rpms.

Had a HELL of a time finding exactly what I wanted with 3:73 gears. Found several locally,but they were all lifted with 4:11 or 4:56 gears,and I wanted a highway truck I didn't need a crane to get in or out,or that pulled stupid RPM's to just go down the road at 70 MPH.

Plus,when you start talking about trucks with lifts,you then have to start buying trailer hitches that will work with them and leave the trailer level.  Plus my back and knees make it hard for me to get in and out of trucks with lifts.

It also has the genuine Allison 6 speed auto trans with overdrive. This was the last year before GM bought the rights to make it from Allison,and then started modifying it to make it cheaper.

I only see this one getting sold at my estate sale,or when they trap me and put me in some state home for fools.