7 Gazans said killed, 500 wounded in massive Hamas-organized border protests

[Victoria33]

You don't suppose that has anything to do with the fact they won't stop shooting missiles at Israeli civilians, do you?  Just thinking out loud here.

@Cyber Liberty

When Israel gave them the Gaza Strip, it was a farming area full of food.  The Palestinians destroyed all of it.  They won't build their own electrical system or phone system or water system or grow their own food.  They would all die if Israel did not provide these services to them.  Seriously ill people are taken to Israeli hospitals because the Palestinians won't provide medical services to their people.

[240B]

@Cyber Liberty

When Israel gave them the Gaza Strip, it was a farming area full of food.  The Palestinians destroyed all of it.  They won't build their own electrical system or phone system or water system or grow their own food.  They would all die if Israel did not provide these services to them.  Seriously ill people are taken to Israeli hospitals because the Palestinians won't provide medical services to their people.

Like the American Liberals do with the American Black communities, it seems like Hamas wants their people to live in squalor and filth and desperation. Because they need to keep them angry to keep the focus off themselves.

Iran does the same thing, keep their people poor and starving.

Calm happy prosperous people are much more likely to keep their leadership in check. And corrupt leaders will do everything they can to keep that from happening.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

When Israel gave them the Gaza Strip, it was a farming area full of food.  The Palestinians destroyed all of it.  They won't build their own electrical system or phone system or water system or grow their own food.  They would all die if Israel did not provide these services to them.  Seriously ill people are taken to Israeli hospitals because the Palestinians won't provide medical services to their people.

When the Israelis left Gaza they had to disinter all their cemeteries because the Palies would have defiled them.  And you are correct, they destroyed all the agriculture left behind.  They didn't merely allow the fields to go fallow, they actually dug everything up and burned it because they couldn't stand the idea of things touched by filthy Jews.

[cato potatoe]

The Arab population is getting close to that of the Israeli population in Israel, an article was posted the other day said. How does this go on? I did hear, if Israel gave Palestine their own state, this might remedy this.

Given the demographics and power structure, what you see is probably what you are going to get.  The orthodox Jews want to cleanse the Holy Land of arabs.  The religious Muslims want to push the Jews out.  Neither will happen without a regional war, so both sides are just going to propagandize in hopes of winning allies.  Western Christians would do well to stay out of a near eastern tribal dispute.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Hmm... I'm really not sure about this.  Some of the Arab/Persian cultures are quite civilized and function quite well.  I'm not convinced this problem is necessarily a "genetics thing".

I have traveled extensively across the Middle East and even North Africa.

All the countries I visited with the exception of Israel are dictatorships.  The ones I refrained from going to like present Libya are anarchistic, basically like Gaza.

When I traveled to Libya years ago it indeed 'functioned quite well'; however, it was under the dictator Gaddafi.  Looking at it now tells you all one would need to know.

Where do you get your information anyway?

@Right_in_Virginia

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Imagine if all those stupid tunnels they built to infiltrate and attack Israel, were sewage lines or water treatment culverts. Imagine how much better off they would be.

They spent 100s of millions building tunnels into Israel, and Israel simply shugs and blows them all up. They spent 100s of millions on antiquated rockets to shoot at Israel, and Israel simply shrugs and shoots them all down.

They are pissing away all their treasure on nonsense, when they could be building a future for all the unfortunate people who happen to live there. But they just don't think like that. They don't think like Western people. They think like savages. They think like barbarians. They don't want to 'build' anything. Their obsession is only to destroy what others have built.

Hell man, the freaking Romans built a better city than Hamas 1500 years ago. Just imagine that? It is hard to believe.

Uncivilized and barbaric people act that way.

[WingNot]

Israel should drop a bomb on it and then  put up a parking lot with a pink hotel, a boutique and a swinging hot spot.....

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Look, Gaza has received probably billions of dollars over the decades. And yet, their infrastructure is like ours was in the 1800s. All the money is either stolen by their leadership or it is spent on weapons and tunnels to attack Israel.

With all the money they have received they could be another Club Med of the M.E. But they don't do it. They are so fixated on Israel that they ignore their own people and country.

They could be a Great beautiful global tourist spot. But they can't do it. It is simply not who they are. All the money they get is stolen, weapons and tunnels. That is their priorities. Meanwhile their people live in squalor and slums starving and begging Israel for water, food, and decent medical care.

During a recent travel to Israel, we went to Palestinian-controlled Jericho.  This area was given back to their control by the Israelis years ago.

It was like going into the third world after traveling across Israel.  Garbage, filth, street hawkers, disrepair wherever one looks, a travesty.

For those interested in an article on this, I just saw this one today.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269743/jericho-we-have-not-forsaken-you-ari-lieberman

[Fishrrman]

Thanks, 240b, for having the courage to post as openly as you have done in reply 10 above.

I have no concern - NONE - for "dead Palestinians" be they men, women, or...  children.
If they want to attack Israel, this what they get -- and what they SHOULD GET -- in return.

Frankly, I can't understand why there's only "a fence" at this location.
Why isn't the full-scale Israeli border barrier located there, as well?
(My guess is that one soon will be).

[goatprairie]

Exactly 100% absolutely correct. If all the Jews left Israel tomorrow the place would become a wasteland. Lebanon/Syria would come in from the North. Jordan/Iran would come in from the East. And Egypt/Saudi would come in from the South. And they would all fight each other and the Palestinians for territory. The Palestinians would be left with nothing. They would simply become slaves to the new order, however it resolved itself.

It is the ultimate irony the Israel is 'protecting' Hamas from forces which would be 1000% worse for them. By Hamas calling for the death of Israel, they are calling for their own destruction. If those were Muslims on the burms instead of Israelis, and Hamas did this crap, any Muslim country would send in the tanks and mow those protesters down like dogs.

If anything, the Israelis are being 'too nice' to them.

"If all the Jews left Israel tomorrow the place would become a wasteland."

Interestingly enough, that is the way Mark Twain described much of Israel in his book "Innocents Abroad" about a trip he took to the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe in  1867. While Jews never completely left the land known now as Israel, most of the population were Arabs.  They didn't do anything for the land. The Jews made something out of it.

[berdie]

INM very humble opinion..if the Palistinians were going to form a state...it would have already happened.

[Cyber Liberty]

INM very humble opinion..if the Palistinians were going to form a state...it would have already happened.

I think so too.  They couldn't do it with all the tools handed to them on a silver platter.

[TomSea]

No, what will remedy this is if the Jews all killed themselves, or left Israel.  According to the Arabs, that is.  Gaza is already proof of what happens if Israel gives them land:  They use it to launch attacks on Israel.  Give them more land, and there will be more attacks on less defensible positions.

If demographics win out, it be Israel or Turkey with the Kurds in 20 years, that is what the future will hold. At least, if it is a Democracy, we could see the Palestinians vote in their politicians.

[TomSea]

You really believe that?

Wow.

Arabs will not coexist with Jews period.

So, you are saying demographics do not matter. That a minority rules a majority. I'm just saying what seems very possible. Not talking about the Palestinians attacking the Jews, I'm talking about them outnumbering the Jewish population. So, how does one solve that then? Does one believe in Democracy? I'm just saying what the article said, if that land was not Israeli land but a separate nation, then, Israel would remain a Jewish majority. I don't see what the flaw is in the theories.

[TomSea]

This was posted a few days ago, there are a number of other references:

Jews, Arabs nearing population parity in Holy Land: Israeli officials
Jeffrey Heller

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The number of Jews and Arabs between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River is at or near parity, figures cited by Israeli officials show, raising questions whether Israel can remain a democracy if it keeps territory where Palestinians seek a state.

The population statistics were mentioned in an Israeli parliamentary statement on Monday summing up legislators’ questioning of an official of Israel’s military-run civil administration (COGAT) that coordinates government activities in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and in the Gaza Strip.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-population/jews-arabs-nearing-population-parity-in-holy-land-israeli-officials-idUSKBN1H222T

Sure, talk all one wants about not wanting a two-state solution, that the Palestinians will fire missiles at the Israelis; but one must also consider that there is a conceivable Arab majority coming and a lot of those people live in those West Bank and Gaza territories. That gives the Arabs the majority. We are talking about whether Israel will still be Israel if they are a majority.  Thus, if those territories were not a part of Israel, Israel keeps its majority.  That is what some of these articles say. There is a potential problem. How can it be fixed?

[Cyber Liberty]

If demographics win out, it be Israel or Turkey with the Kurds in 20 years, that is what the future will hold. At least, if it is a Democracy, we could see the Palestinians vote in their politicians.

There are already Arab politicians in the Knesset.  The Israelis are rather proud that the freest Arabs in the world live in Israel.   

[TomSea]

There are already Arab politicians in the Knesset.  The Israelis are rather proud that the freest Arabs in the world live in Israel.

I think a lot of us are aware of that, how about this scenario:

Without the creation of a Palestinian state, Tibi said, Israel will be headed toward a “one-state solution” embracing either “apartheid or an Arab-Palestinian prime minister”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-population/jews-arabs-nearing-population-parity-in-holy-land-israeli-officials-idUSKBN1H222T

At the least, if one is truthful, I'd think one would have to say there is a possibility of the above. That's what the article is talking about. We all know that Hamas fires missiles at Israel, commits acts of terror but this other can be just as much of a problem.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think a lot of us are aware of that, how about this scenario:

At the least, if one is truthful, I'd think one would have to say there is a possibility of the above. That's what the article is talking about. We all know that Hamas fires missiles at Israel, commits acts of terror but this other can be just as much of a problem.

I'm sure it is.  We have our hands full with similar problems, of similar origin.

[Fishrrman]

TomSea wrote:
"So, you are saying demographics do not matter. That a minority rules a majority."

In some cases, it is BETTER if the minority "rules" over the majority.
I said SOME cases, not "all".

Case in point:
South Africa, which was better (even better for BLACKS) under Apartheid.

Don't ever believe -- not for one moment -- that the "Palestinians" will do the right thing. Not ever.
When given the chance of a popular vote, WHO did they vote in -- hamas.

muslims will almost NEVER do the right or proper thing.
Never.

[TomSea]

Still, if the bulk of those Muslim and Arabic people are in the territories...it's not as if they are in Israel proper.

As another example, take Russia, I guess Russia should maintain control of Chechnya because the Orthodox Church is there but the numbers overwhelmingly are Muslim, it sits at the Southern tip of Russia, one might look at a map and wonder if Russia really needs this so much?

Red area

[TomSea]

TomSea wrote:
"So, you are saying demographics do not matter. That a minority rules a majority."

In some cases, it is BETTER if the minority "rules" over the majority.
I said SOME cases, not "all".

Case in point:
South Africa, which was better (even better for BLACKS) under Apartheid.

Don't ever believe -- not for one moment -- that the "Palestinians" will do the right thing. Not ever.
When given the chance of a popular vote, WHO did they vote in -- hamas.

muslims will almost NEVER do the right or proper thing.
Never.

Okay, but what about if the Palestinians ever get a voting majority? This doesn't address that. I gather they have voting rights now but I don't know about the "occupied territories" but obviously, if they ever had the voting power to elect the Prime Minister, etc., people would not want that.

[cato potatoe]

No, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank do not get to vote in Israeli elections, nor will this ever be allowed.  The right-wingers in the knesset are fully aware of their demographic problem.  Jews have a 74% majority outside of the aforementioned areas, but this is slowly shrinking.  Netanyahu wants to annex the Jewish settlements his government has planted throughout the West Bank.  Judea/Samaria will remain a honeycombed mess until one tribe has the means to push the other out.

[TomSea]

No, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank do not get to vote in Israeli elections, nor will this ever be allowed.  The right-wingers in the knesset are fully aware of their demographic problem.  Jews have a 74% majority outside of the aforementioned areas, but this is slowly shrinking.  Netanyahu wants to annex the Jewish settlements his government has planted throughout the West Bank.  Judea/Samaria will remain a honeycombed mess until one tribe has the means to push the other out.

Thanks, that is very helpful.