Police: Man Pointing Gun At His Own Head Killed By Officers

[Fishrrman]

I prefer the "going home centers" a la Soylent Green.

When you want to go, go... in peace and comfortable surroundings.

I don't care one whit what others think.

[Suppressed]

@Suppressed What part of  "Both of them chose to die with dignity. That included not prolonging their lives through artificial or heroic measures. We left it in God's hands on when he wanted to call them home." was unclear. Both of them received the standard medical for their conditions.

...never receiving any treatment, or medication, that allowed them to live?

[Smokin Joe]

So a person should be made to live in agony themselves, just to avoid others hurting?  Where's the morality in that?  That's akin to the communists saying you have to work to provide for others.

Actually, people suck it up and do just that every day.

[Smokin Joe]

I prefer the "going home centers" a la Soylent Green.

When you want to go, go... in peace and comfortable surroundings.

I don't care one whit what others think.

Yeah, that way your loved ones can have you over for lunch....(Soylent Green is people!)

[roamer_1]

Actually, people suck it up and do just that every day.

And sometimes they find healing.

God is good.

[Smokin Joe]

And sometimes they find healing.

God is good.

Yep. Doing for others can keep pain at bay. It's all what you focus on.

[roamer_1]

Yep. Doing for others can keep pain at bay. It's all what you focus on.

And sometimes your pain causes you to be an example. And a witness. If my pain becomes a blessing to my kids, showing them how to have perseverance, and how to overcome - That is something that they may need later in their lives, and in ways you can't see right now.

One of the greatest things my folks taught me, was when they split.  They lived apart for about a year, and tore the family up pretty bad... Their decision that their oath before God and their example to their kids - that the family was more important that their troubles (which were large) - It was that mindset that caused them to stick together and reconcile... And them healing that breach healed the breach in the family and made it so much stronger.

Pain is much the same way. It ain't your life. And your suffering has impact that you may not understand.

[verga]

...never receiving any treatment, or medication, that allowed them to live?

I'll save my breath since you seem to be intentionally obtuse.

[verga]

And sometimes your pain causes you to be an example. And a witness. If my pain becomes a blessing to my kids, showing them how to have perseverance, and how to overcome - That is something that they may need later in their lives, and in ways you can't see right now.

One of the greatest things my folks taught me, was when they split.  They lived apart for about a year, and tore the family up pretty bad... Their decision that their oath before God and their example to their kids - that the family was more important that their troubles (which were large) - It was that mindset that caused them to stick together and reconcile... And them healing that breach healed the breach in the family and made it so much stronger.

Pain is much the same way. It ain't your life. And your suffering has impact that you may not understand.

@roamer_1  EXACTLY! thank you for saying much more clearly than I could.

[driftdiver]

And sometimes your pain causes you to be an example. And a witness. If my pain becomes a blessing to my kids, showing them how to have perseverance, and how to overcome - That is something that they may need later in their lives, and in ways you can't see right now.

One of the greatest things my folks taught me, was when they split.  They lived apart for about a year, and tore the family up pretty bad... Their decision that their oath before God and their example to their kids - that the family was more important that their troubles (which were large) - It was that mindset that caused them to stick together and reconcile... And them healing that breach healed the breach in the family and made it so much stronger.

Pain is much the same way. It ain't your life. And your suffering has impact that you may not understand.

@roamer_1

Some people live in severe pain.  Not the achy back pain but the blinding knife in the back pain.  The pain that they cant funtion without some relief.

They could take the whole bottle of aspirin and it wouldn't touch it.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Some people live in severe pain.  Not the achy back pain but the blinding knife in the back pain.  The pain that they cant funtion without some relief.

They could take the whole bottle of aspirin and it wouldn't touch it.

@driftdiver
Believe me, I am as intimately aware of screaming yellow pain from hell as just about anyone here. The pain you speak of was my constant, never-ending companion for 7 years of my life.

I am by no means speaking out of turn.

[Jazzhead]

@Suppressed Just so that you are absolutely clear you have just said that it is perfectly acceptable for someone that is distraught over the actions of their spouse is justified in ending their own life.
Let's take it up another notch at what point does it change from optional and voluntary to mandatory? Denmark and Iceland are aborting Children with Down's syndrome at an unprecedented rate. What about when Grandma develops Alzheimer's disease and it is too costly to put her in a home?
When you decide that man has the power of God to decide their own time of death you better make sure that you are ready for someone to decide to play God with the time and place of your death, because that is the very next step.

Suppressed said that a consenting adult is the arbiter of his own life.  Those aren't the situations you describe. 

The State should play no role in preventing the suicide of a competent adult.  Biblical morality is something that each of us as individuals should assess and consider, but its enforcement can never be the policy of the State.      Grandma with Alzheimer's isn't a competent, consenting adult,  and there the State's role is to prevent the exploitation of her life and situation by others.   That's legit -  but again, Biblical morality has nothing to do with it.   As for abortion,  while I abhor the practice as morally wrong, it is not the role of the State to impose my morality, or that of anyone else,  on the woman's right to determine her future.   Her own sense of morality (and religious belief) may lead her to give birth to and raise a Down's syndrome child.  But it may also tell her to abort that child,  and later conceive and raise a healthy child who would never otherwise have existed.       

[Jazzhead]

And sometimes your pain causes you to be an example. And a witness. If my pain becomes a blessing to my kids, showing them how to have perseverance, and how to overcome - That is something that they may need later in their lives, and in ways you can't see right now.

One of the greatest things my folks taught me, was when they split.  They lived apart for about a year, and tore the family up pretty bad... Their decision that their oath before God and their example to their kids - that the family was more important that their troubles (which were large) - It was that mindset that caused them to stick together and reconcile... And them healing that breach healed the breach in the family and made it so much stronger.

Pain is much the same way. It ain't your life. And your suffering has impact that you may not understand.

Excellent advice and perspective, roamer.   I especially concur about the example shown by a couple that weathers the bad times (and all marriages have bad times) to show their kids the value of commitment, the importance of an oath, and the ultimate strength of solidarity.

Chronic pain and debilitation is a tough road to hoe,  and the temptation must surely be great to end the ordeal.   I think the motivation of some who choose to check out is partly selfless - to avoid being a burden to those they love.   Can one find the courage to persevere through religious faith?  Of course.  But self-determination is a natural right,  that should not be denied by the State.   

[driftdiver]

Suppressed said that a consenting adult is the arbiter of his own life.  Those aren't the situations you describe. 

The State should play no role in preventing the suicide of a competent adult.  Biblical morality is something that each of us as individuals should assess and consider, but its enforcement can never be the policy of the State.      Grandma with Alzheimer's isn't a competent, consenting adult,  and there the State's role is to prevent the exploitation of her life and situation by others.   That's legit -  but again, Biblical morality has nothing to do with it.   As for abortion,  while I abhor the practice as morally wrong, it is not the role of the State to impose my morality, or that of anyone else,  on the woman's right to determine her future.   Her own sense of morality (and religious belief) may lead her to give birth to and raise a Down's syndrome child.  But it may also tell her to abort that child,  and later conceive and raise a healthy child who would never otherwise have existed.     

@Jazzhead
Laws regarding stealing, perjury, murder, divorce, property ownership, etc are all deeply influenced by morality.  I think you meant to say that laws dealing with morality that you don't like.

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver
Believe me, I am as intimately aware of screaming yellow pain from hell as just about anyone here. The pain you speak of was my constant, never-ending companion for 7 years of my life.

I am by no means speaking out of turn.

@roamer_1
Well then I don't understand why you would suggest they should just sit there and take it.  That its Gods will for them to be in pain.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
Laws regarding stealing, perjury, murder, divorce, property ownership, etc are all deeply influenced by morality.  I think you meant to say that laws dealing with morality that you don't like.

Those laws all concern harm done by one person to another.  The laws "I don't like" attempt to impose notions of morality on the exercise of one's individual liberty and autonomy that harm no one.   Not that morality shouldn't be an important consideration - only that the State shouldn't be in the business of enforcing morality (Biblical or otherwise) with respect to "victimless" activities.

Now I know the big debate concerns abortion - many don't consider it victimless.  And count me among them.   But reasonable minds differ,  certainly before viability,  and to me the only sound position that the State can take is to acknowledge that it is up to the woman to decide.  And for the rest of us to persuade and support her to do the right thing. 

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1
Well then I don't understand why you would suggest they should just sit there and take it.  That its Gods will for them to be in pain.

@driftdiver
'Sit there and take it' is a fairly broad bush.I don't think I said anything even near to 'sit there and take it'.

Nor that I said it was God's will for them to be in pain - Though my walk with the Father has become far more intimate because of it - Pain and death are part of the curse, not part of the creation. But that you become an example and a witness is unavoidable - Who's example and witness - That's the choice.

[driftdiver]

Those laws all concern harm done by one person to another.  The laws "I don't like" attempt to impose notions of morality on the exercise of one's individual liberty and autonomy that harm no one.   Not that morality shouldn't be an important consideration - only that the State shouldn't be in the business of enforcing morality (Biblical or otherwise) with respect to "victimless" activities.

Now I know the big debate concerns abortion - many don't consider it victimless.  And count me among them.   But reasonable minds differ,  certainly before viability,  and to me the only sound position that the State can take is to acknowledge that it is up to the woman to decide.  And for the rest of us to persuade and support her to do the right thing.

@Jazzhead
I'd say a baby getting torn to bits makes it a victim.

You're victimless crimes don't exist in a vacuum, they effect other people.

[roamer_1]

only that the State shouldn't be in the business of enforcing morality (Biblical or otherwise) with respect to "victimless" activities.

Most law is a moral statement. Some is merely regulatory (weights and measures, etc), but law is morality by it's very nature. And no law, developed in order to assert a moral position, is without a victim.