New England wanted to use all renewable energy... then it got cold.

[Free Vulcan]

During a recent trip to Maine, my wife and I noticed the large number of wind turbines cluttering the peaks of the ridges around the otherwise scenic New England countryside, particularly in Vermont. There really are a lot of them, and that’s the result of an ongoing push to get the region onto renewable energy as much as possible. Vermont in particular has been hammering wind power as the path to cut carbon emissions and make the state truly green in nature. And they’ve achieved an admirable level of success, despite the fact that people living near the wind farms are being driven batty by all the noise and the state is being forced to enact additional restrictions on turbine operation.

But for the most part, as I said, that was all well and good… at least as long as the weather was pleasant. Now, however, as I’m sure any of you living in the northeast are aware, there’s a blistering bubble of arctic air throwing the region into a deep freeze. Suddenly the power grid is experiencing strains which aren’t generally seen in more clement weather conditions. So how are they responding? Local Hartford, Vermont blogger Meredith Angwin has been keeping an eye on the grid and she’s seeing an alarming trend (or at least alarming to environmentalists). As the temperature dropped, wind energy production waned just as demand was rising. And the local power companies responded by… burning oil.

Read more at: https://hotair.com/archives/2018/01/04/new-england-wanted-use-renewable-energy-got-cold/

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

NE is filled with idiot liberals, just as idiotic as Europeans about this garbage.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Using electricity to heat your home is not very efficient compared to other ways like natural gas, heating oil or coal.

People who live in NE know this, but the politicians wanted to do their little Gaia-worship expenditures anyway.

[thackney]

Using electricity to heat your home is not very efficient compared to other ways like natural gas, heating oil or coal.

People who live in NE know this, but the politicians wanted to do their little Gaia-worship expenditures anyway.

Electric to heat is efficient, it is how the electric is made from fuel that isn't as efficient.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Electric to heat is efficient, it is how the electric is made from fuel that isn't as efficient.

And therein lies the inefficiency.

[Bigun]

Electric to heat is efficient, it is how the electric is made from fuel that isn't as efficient.

At this point in time, using ANY secondary method to heat your home is never as efficient as using a primary method.

Using gas to generate electricity and then transmitting that electricity to your house's electric furnace is FAR more inefficient than using a gas furnace in the first place would be and I doubt seriously that there is anyplace on earth where that is not true at present.

[thackney]

And therein lies the inefficiency.

@IsailedawayfromFR @Bigun

I agree, I misunderstood your post.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

At this point in time, using ANY secondary method to heat your home is never as efficient as using a primary method.

Using gas to generate electricity and then transmitting that electricity to your house's electric furnace is FAR more inefficient than using a gas furnace in the first place would be and I doubt seriously that there is anyplace on earth where that is not true at present.

When you factor in all of the costs, my house would be an example where electric is more efficient.  I don't have gas service, so I'd either have to have it run to my house (not an option, AFAIK) or use an external tank (I assume that's a more expense route per BTU or whatever).  Then I'd have to buy a gas furnace -- currently I simply use my A/C (heat pump) in reverse.  Given that I might use the heater a few days per year (and often none) I don't think I would ever recoup the fixed costs.  Actually, I'll bet maintenance on the gas system alone would exceed what I spend on electric heat.

[Bigun]

When you factor in all of the costs, my house would be an example where electric is more efficient.  I don't have gas service, so I'd either have to have it run to my house (not an option, AFAIK) or use an external tank (I assume that's a more expense route per BTU or whatever).  Then I'd have to buy a gas furnace -- currently I simply use my A/C (heat pump) in reverse.  Given that I might use the heater a few days per year (and often none) I don't think I would ever recoup the fixed costs.  Actually, I'll bet maintenance on the gas system alone would exceed what I spend on electric heat.

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

And you would be VERY wrong in making that assumption.  Your heat pump itself is VERY inefficient and, if it get's cold enough, will need some assistance in order to keep you warm but it's your money!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Using electricity to heat your home is not very efficient compared to other ways like natural gas, heating oil or coal.

People who live in NE know this, but the politicians wanted to do their little Gaia-worship expenditures anyway.

In general you're right but you can do little tricks like use a space heater to only heat one room at a time. My parents do it with good results.

Obviously you don't turn the heat off elsewhere just turn it down.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

And you would be VERY wrong in making that assumption.  Your heat pump itself is VERY inefficient and, if it get's cold enough, will need some assistance in order to keep you warm but it's your money!

Since I don't have gas service I don't know if there's a charge for simply having the service.  I looked at my sewer bill and I pay $4.11/mon just for the priviledge of being billed (which is more than the charge for my actual sewer usage for the month in question).  [There's also another $13.82 "base charge].  If I had to pay $50/year for gas service, even using no gas, that would easily exceed my annual heating charges.

My A/C does have an emergency heat mode, but I've never used it.  It just doesn't get that cold here.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR @Bigun

I agree, I misunderstood your post.

No, you added clarification for this Electricity-challenged engineer.  Thanks.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

In general you're right but you can do little tricks like use a space heater to only heat one room at a time. My parents do it with good results.

Obviously you don't turn the heat off elsewhere just turn it down.

You are correct.  I was being overly-broad as I assumed the same areas would be heated.

I have central air and heat in my home but at the farm I am now at, it is propane with space heaters.  I close doors to seclude those areas I do not need to heat, hence it is efficient for what I do, similar to your parents.

[thackney]

When you factor in all of the costs, my house would be an example where electric is more efficient.  I don't have gas service, so I'd either have to have it run to my house (not an option, AFAIK) or use an external tank (I assume that's a more expense route per BTU or whatever).  Then I'd have to buy a gas furnace -- currently I simply use my A/C (heat pump) in reverse.  Given that I might use the heater a few days per year (and often none) I don't think I would ever recoup the fixed costs.  Actually, I'll bet maintenance on the gas system alone would exceed what I spend on electric heat.

Natural Gas is not economically stored in a tank.  Too high a pressure is required to keep a reasonable volume.  You would need to use Propane or Fuel Oil.

[Bigun]

Natural Gas is not economically stored in a tank.  Too high a pressure is required to keep a reasonable volume.  You would need to use Propane or Fuel Oil.

I live in a rural area in Texas where, believe it or not, natural gas is not currently available.  My house has central heat and air the furnace is fired with propane as is my water heater.  If I were a bit younger I would consider installing a ground loop to enhance the efficiency of that system.

[Joe Wooten]

Natural Gas is not economically stored in a tank.  Too high a pressure is required to keep a reasonable volume.  You would need to use Propane or Fuel Oil.

I use propane, with wood as a supplement. The wood is free thanks to the emerald ash borer (except for the small cost in gasoline for the chainsaw).

[Bigun]

I use propane, with wood as a supplement. The wood is free thanks to the emerald ash borer (except for the small cost in gasoline for the chainsaw).

@Joe Wooten

Yes!  I forgot to mention that I installed a heatalator fireplace when I built the house that will keep the place toasty warm without the aid of the central furnace if you build a fire in it. Obtaining wood is never a problem here in East Texas.

[Joe Wooten]

@Joe Wooten

Yes!  I forgot to mention that I installed a heatalator fireplace when I built the house that will keep the place toasty warm without the aid of the central furnace if you build a fire in it. Obtaining wood is never a problem here in East Texas.

The folks who we bought this place from had installed a Rebel wood burning stove that has a fan blowing air through the middle gap between the double walls and that air is ducted into the central Duct system. Once I get it going, it can heat the house very well.