White House eyeing Clarke for Homeland Security post

[Mesaclone]

The TSA has misses numerous attacks.  The shoe bomber the underwear bomber.  The passengers won't sit back and take it anymore.  The TSA is window dressing to sell tickets.  Nothing more

Oh wait they do grope a lot of grandma's and little kids.  Yeah that makes us safer.  Take your nonsense somewhere else.  I've worked first hand with them and know how pathetic they are.

You HAVE to be smarter than this....do your dang research. Neither the shoe bomber NOR the underwear bomber flew out of US airports and so had NOTHING to do with TSA or its screening.

The TSA has prevented ALL attempted attacks in the USA, through the force of deterrence. As for grandma being and little kids being groped...if suddenly those groups were exempt from screening, are you really clueless enough to think Islamists won't use "grandmas and kids" in terror attacks? Let me assure you, you are entirely wrong...as they have already done so.  So yes, that practice of screening EVERYONE has saved many lives.

[Smokin Joe]

No, it does not reflect poorly on Clarke if the facts are a prisoner refused to drink and committed suicide for doing so.

Sorry, but there are insufficient facts to make the point that you are trying to make.

The death has been ruled a homicide. Not suicide, but homicide.

Please avail yourself of the links in this post:

Well, let's see who said what about the incident in question:

With a liberal slant: (tends to be against Clark, but we all expect that, and these are just two of many)

http://atlantablackstar.com/2017/04/25/inmate-sheriff-clarkes-jail-deprived-water-7-straight-days-leading-death-dehydration/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/25/1656133/-Inmate-dehydrated-to-death-in-Milwaukee-jail-but-David-Clarke-too-busy-sucking-up-to-GOP-to-care

More Balanced, more news than commentary

http://www.theindychannel.com/newsy/sheriff-clarkes-jail-under-investigation-after-inmate-dies-of-thirst

https://wausaupilotandreview.com/2017/04/28/probe-open-in-inmates-dehydration-death/

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/2017/04/24/prosecutors-inmates-water-cut-off-7-days-before-his-death-milwaukee-county-jail/100847982/

Digging even deeper

http://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/unanswered-questions-surround-deaths-in-detention-in-milwaukee-county-b9979847z1-243112331.html

http://archive.jsonline.com/watchdog/a-closer-look-at-milwaukee-county-deaths-in-custody-242956021.html#!/

This is just what I could dig up with my clunky old machine in a short time. Sidebar ads use up a lot of this processor. I am sure others can find more. The first two links are quite predictably hostile to Sheriff Clarke, but let us know what the hostiles are asserting.

The others ask questions.

We should ask, too. If there is nothing wrong, the answers won't be a problem, will they?

While the first two have predictable negative things to say about Clarke, I provided them to permit you to familiarize yourself with the worst optics on the story. The last three links are likely more factual in nature, and lay out the possibility of impropriety in the correctional system there. While that does not make Clarke the perpetrator, nor the one directly responsible for the acts or inaction which led to those deaths, he is the person in charge, and thus the responsibility for his subordinates' actions or inaction falls on his shoulders. I'm not even saying the man is guilty of any wrongdoing nor incompetence, just that the situation should be looked at. If Clarke was a liberal and being appointed by Obama, all else equal, you would question those same events. Regardless of his political leanings and who is appointing him, he should receive the same level of scrutiny.

[Cripplecreek]

I don't know anything about him, I admit.

And that is part of why he is good.

He's a solid pro 2nd amendment cop who advocates for people to arm and defend themselves. He's done a couple of NRA interviews. He's done a few national interviews but hasn't gotten drawn into the celebrity thing.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/05/03/exp-sotu-bernard-kerik-chief-james-craig-michael-smerconish-police-tactics.cnn

[Cripplecreek]

The death has been ruled a homicide. Not suicide, but homicide.

They apparently log withholding water as punishment.

The Associated Press later found that, according to jurors' jail logs, the officers withheld water as punishment for two other inmates after Thomas' death.

http://www.businessinsider.com/police-say-inmate-in-jail-david-clarke-runs-died-dehydration-2017-5

[driftdiver]

You HAVE to be smarter than this....do your dang research. Neither the shoe bomber NOR the underwear bomber flew out of US airports and so had NOTHING to do with TSA or its screening.

The TSA has prevented ALL attempted attacks in the USA, through the force of deterrence. As for grandma being and little kids being groped...if suddenly those groups were exempt from screening, are you really clueless enough to think Islamists won't use "grandmas and kids" in terror attacks? Let me assure you, you are entirely wrong...as they have already done so.  So yes, that practice of screening EVERYONE has saved many lives.

Using that logic it's also prevented alien invasions.

When I went to a major US airport for a security audit and my instructions for meeting them included *go thru the hole in the fence* it didn't impress me.  Then without checking my I'D or searching my bag I was beside an airplane within 5 minutes.  Then under the terminal.  Then inside the terminal. 

Then there's worse that I can't talk about in a public forum.   They haven't stopped squat.  A brain dead monkey could outsmart them.

[Silver Pines]

And that is part of why he is good.

He's a solid pro 2nd amendment cop who advocates for people to arm and defend themselves. He's done a couple of NRA interviews. He's done a few national interviews but hasn't gotten drawn into the celebrity thing.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/05/03/exp-sotu-bernard-kerik-chief-james-craig-michael-smerconish-police-tactics.cnn

@Cripplecreek

He comes across as a pretty solid guy.  When people start getting that celebrity bug, it's to their detriment (hello, Jerry Falwell, Jr).

[Cripplecreek]

@Cripplecreek

He comes across as a pretty solid guy.  When people start getting that celebrity bug, it's to their detriment (hello, Jerry Falwell, Jr).

He gets a lot of attention from local media but that's to be expected. He takes a lot of heat from liberals but the mayor and city council appear to be staying out of his way.

He stirred things up a year or so back when he started talking about gang bangers being a bunch of urban terrorists after 12 people were shot in front of a crowd of hundreds and nobody saw nuthin because they're afraid.

He did slam obama along with the mayor over them ignoring the Steve Utash beating.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The death has been ruled a homicide. Not suicide, but homicide.

Please avail yourself of the links in this post: While the first two have predictable negative things to say about Clarke, I provided them to permit you to familiarize yourself with the worst optics on the story. The last three links are likely more factual in nature, and lay out the possibility of impropriety in the correctional system there. While that does not make Clarke the perpetrator, nor the one directly responsible for the acts or inaction which led to those deaths, he is the person in charge, and thus the responsibility for his subordinates' actions or inaction falls on his shoulders. I'm not even saying the man is guilty of any wrongdoing nor incompetence, just that the situation should be looked at. If Clarke was a liberal and being appointed by Obama, all else equal, you would question those same events. Regardless of his political leanings and who is appointing him, he should receive the same level of scrutiny.

I read every one of those articles and I do not see the homicide decision in them.

My whole point in all this is that it looks bad that the water was cutoff to the guy's cell if he had died of dehydration; however, that in itself does not prove he was ever offered water to drink.  What I read was that the Asst DA said it 'appears' that he was not offered water.

There are a lot of jail cells that have no running water in them, so just cutting it off in one that does will not prove anything is wrong.  There must be more.

Clarke has some explaining to do for sure.

But to condemn this as a simple 'keeping water away from him so he died of thirst', I have yet to see those as solid facts to say this is all the jailers' fault.

My attitude is to believe those who protect us citizens until it is found they should not be believed.

A lot of the articles are sensationalizing due to Clarke's visibility and the hatred the press have for anyone of a conservative bent.

[Mesaclone]

Using that logic it's also prevented alien invasions.

When I went to a major US airport for a security audit and my instructions for meeting them included *go thru the hole in the fence* it didn't impress me.  Then without checking my I'D or searching my bag I was beside an airplane within 5 minutes.  Then under the terminal.  Then inside the terminal. 

Then there's worse that I can't talk about in a public forum.   They haven't stopped squat.  A brain dead monkey could outsmart them.

Really, did aliens from another planet bring down the two towers in New York?
Can you document that aliens from Planet X are actively plotting to conduct another attack on a US aircraft?
Islamists did the first, and are actively attempting the second...so your analogy is...well...idiotic.

Perimeter fencing at major airports is typically the responsibility of local law enforcement, so your example is an indictment of the local police force and little more.

As for what they've stopped, you have no idea and your pretension to know otherwise demonstrates just how ill informed you are regarding Islamist efforts here in the U.S. You are entirely wrong on that particular point of fact. Further, they are continuing to conduct surveillance and plotting attacks...and are continuing to be deterred from doing so. And that's not speculation or "belief" on my part, its simply a fact.

You've already shown you're clueless, by asserting that the shoe and underwear bombers got past US security. Now you compound with a story about how local PD didn't stop you from getting through an airport fence. Finally, you close by claiming airport attacks have not been thwarted...which is entirely false. I wish I could show you the Intel on specific attacks that have been attempted, but you lack the clearance. Suffice it to say you've no idea what you are talking about.

[Smokin Joe]

I read every one of those articles and I do not see the homicide decision in them.

My whole point in all this is that it looks bad that the water was cutoff to the guy's cell if he had died of dehydration; however, that in itself does not prove he was ever offered water to drink.  What I read was that the Asst DA said it 'appears' that he was not offered water.

There are a lot of jail cells that have no running water in them, so just cutting it off in one that does will not prove anything is wrong.  There must be more.

Clarke has some explaining to do for sure.

But to condemn this as a simple 'keeping water away from him so he died of thirst', I have yet to see those as solid facts to say this is all the jailers' fault.

My attitude is to believe those who protect us citizens until it is found they should not be believed.

A lot of the articles are sensationalizing due to Clarke's visibility and the hatred the press have for anyone of a conservative bent.

Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/milwaukee-inmate-death-ruled-homicide-troubled-jail-article-1.2798787
Sometimes I don't get all the links in.

Granted, higher visibility brings out the media with every possible infraction, but Terrill Thomas wasn't the only one. Until that is cleared up, keep looking. Trump might find someone even better. If it is cleared up before the position is filled, then he will have been vetted.

[Cyber Liberty]

Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/milwaukee-inmate-death-ruled-homicide-troubled-jail-article-1.2798787
Sometimes I don't get all the links in.

Granted, higher visibility brings out the media with every possible infraction, but Terrill Thomas wasn't the only one. Until that is cleared up, keep looking. Trump might find someone even better. If it is cleared up before the position is filled, then he will have been vetted.

For some reason I thought this just happened recently.  Terrell Thomas was last September, surely the investigation is finished be now, yet things are still "sketchy."  And it appears a number of inmates died from some sort of neglect, one woman committed suicide after being cut off from her anti-depressants.

The more cases of fatal neglect in this jail, the more this will reflect on the guy at the top.  It means he's failed to take action in light of problems with his employees.  I'm not prepared to say he's wrong for the job just yet, but it doesn't look good, and it's not just because the media has it in for him (many do).

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Sorry. Try this one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/milwaukee-inmate-death-ruled-homicide-troubled-jail-article-1.2798787
Sometimes I don't get all the links in.

Granted, higher visibility brings out the media with every possible infraction, but Terrill Thomas wasn't the only one. Until that is cleared up, keep looking. Trump might find someone even better. If it is cleared up before the position is filled, then he will have been vetted.

That one says a homicide, but here's my problem:

How can a coroner rule this a 'homicide'?  All he can do is decide that the death was due to dehydration, right?

How can anyone possibly say by looking at the body that the cause was anything but that?

Seems the DA and a jury need to decide the homicide route, and the coroner stepped way out of bounds to affix blame to someone else at this point.

[Cyber Liberty]

That one says a homicide, but here's my problem:

How can a coroner rule this a 'homicide'?  All he can do is decide that the death was due to dehydration, right?

How can anyone possibly say by looking at the body that the cause was anything but that?

Seems the DA and a jury need to decide the homicide route, and the coroner stepped way out of bounds to affix blame to someone else at this point.

Here's a link from the CDC's "Coroner's Handbook."  See page 21.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_me.pdf

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Here's a link from the CDC's "Coroner's Handbook."  See page 21.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_me.pdf

from what I read, cause of death:  dehydration.

Seems the same as some whose cause if death is starvation.

Does not assign responsibility.   Just cause.

[Cyber Liberty]

from what I read, cause of death:  dehydration.

Seems the same as some whose cause if death is starvation.

Does not assign responsibility.   Just cause.

Doesn't it seem odd we're 7-8 months after the death and we know nothing more than that week?

[Smokin Joe]

from what I read, cause of death:  dehydration.

Seems the same as some whose cause if death is starvation.

Does not assign responsibility.   Just cause.

The jail personnel had the responsibility for the physical and medical well being of the prisoner. There was no source of water (shut off, for disciplinary reasons), except whatever they gave the prisoner. The prisoner did not have the option of seeking a source of fluids beyond what his captors gave him, and according to one of the sources (iirc) they didn't give him any water. In the event the prisoner was unresponsive or not consuming fluids, medical personnel should have been consulted. As to whether the prisoner made any complaint, well, that's he said/she said without continuous surveillance video (with sound).

[Cripplecreek]

The jail personnel had the responsibility for the physical and medical well being of the prisoner. There was no source of water (shut off, for disciplinary reasons), except whatever they gave the prisoner. The prisoner did not have the option of seeking a source of fluids beyond what his captors gave him, and according to one of the sources (iirc) they didn't give him any water. In the event the prisoner was unresponsive or not consuming fluids, medical personnel should have been consulted. As to whether the prisoner made any complaint, well, that's he said/she said without continuous surveillance video (with sound).

I don't know about the case where the prisoner died but they actually kept a log of water being shut off to punish 2 other prisoners in following weeks.

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't know about the case where the prisoner died but they actually kept a log of water being shut off to punish 2 other prisoners in following weeks.

I don't doubt they kept a log, but logs are pointless if they are not reviewed.

[Cripplecreek]

I don't doubt they kept a log, but logs are pointless if they are not reviewed.

I'm just pointing out that punishments including deprivation of water were logged for the wizards who desperately want it to be suicide or natural causes.

I do understand why they shut off water sometimes. Prison inmates will flood cells to be a problem but a decent jailer is only going to shut off  the water for long enough for the inmate to get thirsty, not dehydrated. I saw it at the Jackson county jail when I was a trustee during a "visit" of my own. The guards gave the guy a 4 ounce dixie cup of koolaide every hour to keep him hydrated.

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm just pointing out that punishments including deprivation of water were logged for the wizards who desperately want it to be suicide or natural causes.

I do understand why they shut off water sometimes. Prison inmates will flood cells to be a problem but a decent jailer is only going to shut off  the water for long enough for the inmate to get thirsty, not dehydrated. I saw it at the Jackson county jail when I was a trustee during a "visit" of my own. The guards gave the guy a 4 ounce dixie cup of koolaide every hour to keep him hydrated.

All very logical.  And it's true, some prisoners will stop up the plumbing to be a PITA.  It's also true if they have to be prevented from doing that the Officers need to be on top of the hydration.  The prisoner is still being a PITA, but it seems to me one would be foolish to make the guards into enemies.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I do understand why they shut off water sometimes. Prison inmates will flood cells to be a problem but a decent jailer is only going to shut off  the water for long enough for the inmate to get thirsty, not dehydrated.

Shutting off running water to a cell is the same as a cell having no running water to begin with, so that in itself does not cause dehydration.

That is caused by either not being offered liquids or refusing to drink.

[Cyber Liberty]

Shutting off running water to a cell is the same as a cell having no running water to begin with, so that in itself does not cause dehydration.

That is caused by either not being offered liquids or refusing to drink.

Makes sense to me.  And, if the prisoner refuses to drink it goes into the same category as a hunger strike.  Force-feed.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Makes sense to me.  And, if the prisoner refuses to drink it goes into the same category as a hunger strike.  Force-feed.

we agree.

[Cyber Liberty]

we agree.

I knew we did, but for some reason we kept whistling past each other.