Author Topic: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law  (Read 1861 times)

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« on: March 31, 2015, 08:24:31 am »
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/03/30/jeb-bush-defends-indianas-religious-beliefs-law/?_r=0

Former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida weighed in Monday on the debate that has engulfed Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana over a new religious freedom law in the state that critics are calling legalized discrimination.

Speaking to Hugh Hewitt, the conservative talk show host, Mr. Bush defended the law as similar to legislation in Florida and as a safeguard for religious belief.

“I think Governor Pence has done the right thing,” said Mr. Bush, who is expected to run for president in 2016. “I think once the facts are established, people aren’t going to see this as discriminatory at all.”

The Indiana law could make it easier for religious conservatives to refuse service to gay couples, prompting protests from businesses, athletes and gay rights activists since Mr. Pence signed it into last Thursday.

Hillary Rodham Clinton condemned the law, but Republicans have been treading carefully around the topic and pointing out that Democrats have supported such legislation in the past.

Mr. Bush told Mr. Hewitt that the Indiana law was about “simply allowing people of faith space to be able to express their beliefs.”

“There are many cases where people acting on their conscience have been castigated by the government,” Mr. Bush said. “This is really an important value for our country, in a diverse country,where you can be tolerant of people’s lifestyles but allow people of faith to exercise theirs.”

Hours after Mr. Bush’s remarks, Senator Ted Cruz, who has announced his candidacy for president, released a statement echoing that sentiment and commending Mr. Pence.

“Governor Pence is holding the line to protect religious liberty in the Hoosier State,” Mr. Cruz said. “Indiana is giving voice to millions of courageous conservatives across this country who are deeply concerned about the ongoing attacks upon our personal liberties.”

Online Fishrrman

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 01:38:09 am »
More than a few heavy hitters are ending up with their feet in their mouths over Pence's runnin' up the white flag.

Poor Pence -- his political future is now Mudd...

Offline Longiron

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2015, 02:38:50 pm »
More than a few heavy hitters are ending up with their feet in their mouths over Pence's runnin' up the white flag.

Poor Pence -- his political future is now Mudd...

Agree, thought this guy had some backbone, principals but he turned out to be just another RINO who caves at the first sign of a FIGHT. I guess he caught Republicanites while in DC. The R disease of CAVING  asap. Good Byr MIKE !!!! 8888crybaby

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2015, 03:47:39 pm »
Quote
Hours after Mr. Bush’s remarks, Senator Ted Cruz, who has announced his candidacy for president, released a statement echoing that sentiment and commending Mr. Pence.

“Governor Pence is holding the line to protect religious liberty in the Hoosier State,” Mr. Cruz said. “Indiana is giving voice to millions of courageous conservatives across this country who are deeply concerned about the ongoing attacks upon our personal liberties.”

Litmus test.

If a Christian is refused an oil change at an auto repair shop that's owned by an atheist because they are a Christian, that would be a violation of their rights and an attack on Christianity, but if a Christian baker refuses to bake a cake for a homosexual couple because they are homosexual, that is a Constitutionally-protected right. Yet, no one has a "right" to either an oil change, or a wedding cake.

Does that hold up to the smell test?

I don't know the answer, but I know that it isn't a clear-cut as many would say that it is. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 03:52:46 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Carling

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2015, 04:11:49 pm »
Litmus test.

If a Christian is refused an oil change at an auto repair shop that's owned by an atheist because they are a Christian, that would be a violation of their rights and an attack on Christianity, but if a Christian baker refuses to bake a cake for a homosexual couple because they are homosexual, that is a Constitutionally-protected right. Yet, no one has a "right" to either an oil change, or a wedding cake.

Does that hold up to the smell test?

I don't know the answer, but I know that it isn't a clear-cut as many would say that it is.

The law specifically deals with baking the cake for a gay marriage.  It's still illegal to refuse service if a gay couple wants to buy a birthday cake. 
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2015, 04:19:24 pm »
The law specifically deals with baking the cake for a gay marriage.  It's still illegal to refuse service if a gay couple wants to buy a birthday cake.

Have you read the statute?

The words "cake", "bake", "baking" are not in there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/03/31/religious-liberty-or-discrimination-read-the-text-of-indianas-religious-freedom-law/

Here's the pertinent text:

Quote
Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a governmental entity may not substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability. (b) A governmental entity may substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion only if the governmental entity demonstrates that application of the burden to the person: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.

Sec. 9. A person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a violation of this chapter may assert the violation or impending violation as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding, regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding. If the relevant governmental entity is not a party to the proceeding, the governmental entity has an unconditional right to intervene in order to respond to the person’s invocation of this chapter.

That's VERY broad.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 04:20:31 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 04:24:26 pm »
BTW... Section 8b(1) is where the rubber meets the road.

Any government can make the argument that avoiding real or perceived discrimination rises up to the standard of "furtherance of a compelling governmental interest" so it would consider that sufficient reason to burden a merchant's exercise of religion.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 06:01:29 pm »
BTW... Section 8b(1) is where the rubber meets the road.

Any government can make the argument that avoiding real or perceived discrimination rises up to the standard of "furtherance of a compelling governmental interest" so it would consider that sufficient reason to burden a merchant's exercise of religion.

Christians are easy prey because they don't fight back.

Try forcing a muslim baker to bake your 'gay wedding' cake and see how that works for ya...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 10:47:11 pm »
Christians are easy prey because they don't fight back.

Try forcing a muslim baker to bake your 'gay wedding' cake and see how that works for ya...

Truth in a nutshell.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Jeb Bush Defends Indiana’s Religious Beliefs Law
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 11:17:59 pm »
Truth in a nutshell.

It ain't complicated like some like to make it...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan