Take out a loan; pay it back--outrageous!

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Take out a loan; pay it back--outrageous!
By Mike McDaniel

My bachelor’s degree cost about $10,000 dollars. I graduated in 1986 and earned it while working as many hours as I could and taking overloads—22 credit hours every semester and full loads every summer and interim session. I managed it in 2.5 years. I didn’t expect anyone to pay for my degree, nor did I secure any loans.

I wasn’t all that unusual—back then.

It was Barack Obama who federalized the student loan industry. The consequences were inevitable. Provided a bottomless federal money source, colleges began admitting anyone who could obtain a federal student loan, which was just about anyone. Tuition costs dramatically rose, which allowed institutions to downsize their tenured faculties, replacing them with barely paid adjunct professors, people whose doctorates were essentially worthless. That freed funds for the hiring of more six-figure administrators whose numbers on many campuses quickly exceeded the number of teachers.

Inevitably, all those administrators created DEI/CRT kingdoms which quickly eliminated virtually all conservative professors and conservative thought, and colleges and universities became wholly owned political indoctrination subsidiaries of the Democrat Party. This was no mistake or happenstance.

Students who no competent college would have admitted in the past were greeted not because of their potential for academic success, but for their federal loan dollars. To keep them from immediately flunking out and losing those federal dollars, colleges established remedial high schools on campus, charging full tuition for no credit for people without the basic skills and knowledge necessary for college level work.

Even that wasn’t enough, so colleges began dumbing down their course offerings beyond the proliferation of “studies” majors. When that wasn’t enough, grade inflation became rampant.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2025/12/take_out_a_loan_pay_it_back_outrageous.html

[Hoodat]

Spot on.  Federalizing the student loan program was one of the most destructive actions of the Obama administration.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Spot on.  Federalizing the student loan program was one of the most destructive actions of the Obama administration.

Yep, accountability on the loans was changed from profit-making private banks to non-profit government officials who reported to a crook at the helm for political aims.

This destroyed

1. The extension of student loans to only individuals who could pay them back

2. Fiscal responsibility by universities as free money resulted from number of students, not the quality of the degree or student they selected

3. Further erosion of our Consitution as a lawless President thumbed his nose at Scotus and forgave loan payback anyway

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I don't disagree with any of these, but IMO, student loans should be bankruptable. It's ridiculous you can gamble 100K in loans in Vegas and get that bankrupted, but no way to escape student loan debt.

[Kamaji]

I don't disagree with any of these, but IMO, student loans should be bankruptable. It's ridiculous you can gamble 100K in loans in Vegas and get that bankrupted, but no way to escape student loan debt.

Exactly.  I can see putting a five year waiting period on them, so a student can’t just get the degree and then discharge the debt, and they should probably be subject to only chapter 13 except in limited circumstances, but the current treatment is too harsh.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I don't disagree with any of these, but IMO, student loans should be bankruptable. It's ridiculous you can gamble 100K in loans in Vegas and get that bankrupted, but no way to escape student loan debt.

The big diff is this is 100% taxpayer money that is being ripped off.

Taking a loan for gambling is not government money.

[Kamaji]

The big diff is this is 100% taxpayer money that is being ripped off.

Taking a loan for gambling is not government money.

Then the government shouldn’t be in the business of lending money, but if it is, then it should be subject to the same risks as other lenders are.

Furthermore, there are still privately issued student loans, and those are also generally non dischargeable.

[berdie]

The big diff is this is 100% taxpayer money that is being ripped off.

Taking a loan for gambling is not government money.

Exactly.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Then the government shouldn’t be in the business of lending money

You think?

but if it is, then it should be subject to the same risks as other lenders are.

Nope, it is 100% taxpayer money.  Different than a for-profit loan.

Furthermore, there are still privately issued student loans, and those are also generally non dischargeable.

If that indeed is the case, then I agree there should be a remedy such as you previously suggested.  This article says it can be discharged. https://www.debt.com/student-loan-debt/bankruptcy-discharge/

In no manner, way, shape or form should forgiveness occur on taxpayer-supplied money.

[Wingnut]

The simple solution is for colleges to use their own money to back undergrad loans to the students they enroll.  Get the Gov out of the business of propping up higher education. 

[Kamaji]

The simple solution is for colleges to use their own money to back undergrad loans to the students they enroll.  Get the Gov out of the business of propping up higher education. 

That is a very good idea.  They'll be a lot more careful if they're the one with skin in the game.

[Wingnut]

That is a very good idea.  They'll be a lot more careful if they're the one with skin in the game.

Exactly.  Skin in the game. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The big diff is this is 100% taxpayer money that is being ripped off.

Taking a loan for gambling is not government money.

No, there is such a thing as private student loans, they are not bankruptable.

And I'd still argue that student loans should be dishchargable in bankruptcy. The whole program shouldn't exist in the first place, but a lot of these kids aren't thinking right or were fed a line of BS by their boomer parents about college.

If you can discharge BS credit card debt, the same should be true for loans. Just my opinion.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The simple solution is for colleges to use their own money to back undergrad loans to the students they enroll.  Get the Gov out of the business of propping up higher education.

[Smokin Joe]

I don't disagree with any of these, but IMO, student loans should be bankruptable. It's ridiculous you can gamble 100K in loans in Vegas and get that bankrupted, but no way to escape student loan debt.

Yeah, treat it like a loan in Vegas. Meet the vig, or end up in the desert with .22 caliber holes in your kneecaps.

Working to pay off a loan is nothing new. It has been the basis of banking (at least in the West) for a thousand years. Taking the loan out was optional. Not seeing it as an  investment in the future that had to be repaid is a refection of the 13-16th grade mentality taken toward college, and the worthlessness of current BS and BA degrees only has devalued the degrees hard won by those who went to college before money and not academic ability became the most sought 'talent' for admission.

No wonder so many companies and even government want an advanced degree.

Nope. Even if there is a declared moratorium on interest for a given period, pay the damned loan back.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No, there is such a thing as private student loans, they are not bankruptable.

Untrue. Read prior post.

And I'd still argue that student loans should be dishchargable in bankruptcy. The whole program shouldn't exist in the first place, but a lot of these kids aren't thinking right or were fed a line of BS by their boomer parents about college.

One matures in life, sometimes by making bad personal choices.
Get back up, dust off the dirt. And move ahead.

To blame parents is what is wrong with a lot of kids who refuse personal accountability.

[Kamaji]

Untrue. Read prior post.
One matures in life, sometimes by making bad personal choices.
Get back up, dust off the dirt. And move ahead.

To blame parents is what is wrong with a lot of kids who refuse personal accountability.

They're dischargeable only if the debtor can show undue hardship, which is a very difficult showing to make.  No such requirement is imposed on, for example, credit card debt.  Run up $100k on credit cards taking vacations and buying shoes, and unless one of the creditors can show that the debtor intended to defraud them, the debt is discharged, either outright if the debtor doesn't meet the income thresholds (ch. 7), or else after a three to five year partial payment period if the debtor meets the income thresholds (ch. 13).

So no, the two are not the same thing; it's disingenous to suggest otherwise.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Untrue. Read prior post.

The loans can be discharges but you have to prove you can't pay them back basically, which IIRC is difficult. Which you don't have to do with normal debt. They should be treated the same

[Kamaji]

The loans can be discharges but you have to prove you can't pay them back basically, which IIRC is difficult. Which you don't have to do with normal debt. They should be treated the same

Exactly.

A student loan debt is no more and no less the equivalent of a business startup loan.  Business startup loans are dischargeable without having to show undue hardship, and so too should student loans.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Most the student loan complainers are entitled, but not all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYdzM1OPAqo

17% APR... $1500 a month for 2 years and she owes more than she started off? C'mon, that is bleep bullshit and you know it. Nobody here would be ok with that if it happened to them even if they made a really stupid decision when they were younger.

Watch that. Her interest means she has to constantly pay and she keeps owing more... that's BS IMO. Even if you make a dumb decision, it shouldn't equal a lifetime of slavery. Bankruptcy exists for a reason.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The loans can be discharges but you have to prove you can't pay them back basically, which IIRC is difficult. Which you don't have to do with normal debt. They should be treated the same

I already responded on this exact point with another poster.  Go back and read all posts.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I already responded on this exact point with another poster.  Go back and read all posts.

What... that colleges should be held responsible? I think it's a terrific idea. But in lieu of that ever happening, which would probably mean the bankruptcy of every college in the US suddenly, seems like treating student loan debt like regular debt is a better solution.

[Hoodat]

Before the student loan business was federalized, entities such as Sally Mae would offer student loans from their own purse and would charge competitive interest rates.  These loans were guaranteed by the federal government, but said government did not have to put up the money for the loans.  At the time Obama was elected, I was in the process of paying off a student loan issued by Citibank.  My interest rate was 2.34%.

Once it was federalized, those lenders were forced out of the market.  Now the federal government put up the loan money from an unlimited supply of cash, and they charged a universal 6.78%.  Students are much worse off now than they were before Obama took office.

[Kamaji]

I already responded on this exact point with another poster.  Go back and read all posts.

No, you didn't.

[Smokin Joe]

Exactly.

A student loan debt is no more and no less the equivalent of a business startup loan.  Business startup loans are dischargeable without having to show undue hardship, and so too should student loans.

Yeah, but most businesses have something which can be sold off to recover at least part of the debt.

[Kamaji]

Yeah, but most businesses have something which can be sold off to recover at least part of the debt.

Not true.  A lot of startups have nothing more than a few second-hand computers, a few used desks and chairs, a short-term lease, and a idea that turned out not to be quite as brilliant as it seemed at the start.

A student loan is almost exactly the same as a business start up loan, and should generally be treated the same.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Yeah, but most businesses have something which can be sold off to recover at least part of the debt.

The original sin of student loan debt is that it's uncollateralized. But it's impossible to go back and rectify that.

[The_Reader_David]

Nope, it is 100% taxpayer money.  Different than a for-profit loan.

Unless the loan is made at 0% interest, all loans are for profit.  It's just that in the case of government lending, the profit accrues to the government that issued the loan, not to a private corporation, partnership or person.

[Smokin Joe]

Unless the loan is made at 0% interest, all loans are for profit.  It's just that in the case of government lending, the profit accrues to the government that issued the loan, not to a private corporation, partnership or person.

Actually, it takes some interest just to keep up with inflation and return the same buying power to the lender that was lent to the borrower.

If I loaned you $806.13 in 2020, to have the same buying power today would require $1000.00. To not collect interest on the original loan would mean I lost money (actual buying power).

[Hoodat]

Actually, it takes some interest just to keep up with inflation and return the same buying power to the lender that was lent to the borrower.

If I loaned you $806.13 in 2020, to have the same buying power today would require $1000.00. To not collect interest on the original loan would mean I lost money (actual buying power).

Which is EXACTLY what Biden did with that student loan Covid freeze.

[roamer_1]

Most the student loan complainers are entitled, but not all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYdzM1OPAqo

That was super impactful. But I hear the same thing all the time. Look at these poor dumb kids. Four years out of high school, man. That's what, maybe 22/23/yo, with $90k in the wind...

THEN, here's the next thing... What did they buy for that 90k? They get a piece of paper that qualifies them for jobs that ain't there. They sold her a bill of goods.
And there is ZERO risk to the shysters that sold her down the river. They already got their money.
And she has a collar around her neck, basically forever, with uncle nanny getting the vig.

NOW... That ain't all. Say she's got a hubby who did the same damn thing. He's in it for another $90k. Can't find the work either.

Now they get the work they can... He's a mechanic and she's a waitress... And they're trying to to the American dream, sign up for a couple cars, buy a house... A house is around a quarter mil these days. Cars are more than I paid for my first house...

I see this over and over again... These poor dumb kids are getting raped and collared, and DOOMED before they ever get out the door.

None of it is going to be set right until the colleges have skin in the game. That's the first problem. They're going to keep selling worthless paper as long as they can. There is no risk to them... No reason to sell a better product... If they got to take the "L" for selling doctorates in Lesbian Dance Theory, when there ain't no jobs at the end: How long would Lesbian Dance Theory be an offered course?

The very same logic with bankers selling houses where the loans are government guaranteed. I am for HUD loans, and things that can help folks get up a little bit - But that ain't what's happening.

Same with auto loans - There's always been shysters and bottom feeders in that game. But they are supposed to be a seedy looking gravel lot with a double-wide for an office... Not dealerships.

So my fictitious young couple winds up with a bun in the oven... And the medical shysters suck em through a bunch of scary knotholes, and they wind up with a c-section... and a 30k bill for the stuff insurance didn't cover - But that's another whole story. Shysters friggin everywhere.

By the time they are 30, this little family is in the tank for around half a million dollars and that ain't even talking credit cards yet either.

By then they know they need to get their sh*t together, because they are growing wise... but by then it's altogether too late. It breaks my heart. I see it all the time.

[Smokin Joe]

Which is EXACTLY what Biden did with that student loan Covid freeze.

Well, that (not sure if the interest kept ticking), and he got people out of the habit of paying on those loans. A lot of folks live at the limits of their paycheck and credit and to suddenly have to make those payments again likely comes as a bit of a shock to their economies because they are paying more for the same standard of living they had pre-COVID. I get that, but if they did not anticipate that they'd be paying that money back (another sh*tty Biden pulled, with claiming they wouldn't have to pay them back) they haven't budgeted accordingly.

Not my fault, but if loan rates are going to come down, they'll pay their debts so the rest of us don't have to pay higher interest while the banks recoup their losses.

I am at the low end of the interest scale (very good credit score), but I'm finishing off as much debt as I can, and retired about 20K last year. I have only what I charge on the card now, and a three figure personal loan balance the next well will finish off, which will free up more cash flow. I thank God I'm doing pretty well so far, but if I handled money now like I did when I was 20, I'd be hurting, too.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

What... that colleges should be held responsible? I think it's a terrific idea. But in lieu of that ever happening, which would probably mean the bankruptcy of every college in the US suddenly, seems like treating student loan debt like regular debt is a better solution.

Are you simply lazy?
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=575243.msg3254309#msg3254309

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No, you didn't.

Yes I did and agreed with you
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=575243.msg3254309#msg3254309