Author Topic: The CIA Thought Putin Would Quickly Conquer Ukraine. Why Did They Get It So Wrong?  (Read 889 times)

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Online Elderberry

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The Intercept by James Risen, Ken Klippenstein 10/5/2022

High-tech surveillance may have blinded the U.S. to how corruption has weakened the Russian military.

Ever since Ukraine launched a successful counteroffensive against Russian forces in late August, American officials have tried to claim credit, insisting that U.S. intelligence has been key to Ukraine’s battlefield victories.

Yet U.S. officials have simultaneously downplayed their intelligence failures in Ukraine — especially their glaring mistakes at the outset of the war. When Putin invaded in February, U.S. intelligence officials told the White House that Russia would win in a matter of days by quickly overwhelming the Ukrainian army, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials, who asked not to be named to discuss sensitive information.

The Central Intelligence Agency was so pessimistic about Ukraine’s chances that officials told President Joe Biden and other policymakers that the best they could expect was that the remnants of Ukraine’s defeated forces would mount an insurgency, a guerrilla war against the Russian occupiers. By the time of the February invasion, the CIA was already planning how to provide covert support for a Ukrainian insurgency following a Russian military victory, the officials said.

U.S. intelligence reports at the time predicted that Kyiv would fall quickly, perhaps in a week or two at the most. The predictions spurred the Biden administration to secretly withdraw some key U.S. intelligence assets from Ukraine, including covert former special operations personnel on contract with the CIA, the current and former officials said. Their account was backed up by a Naval officer and a former Navy SEAL, who were aware of the movements and who also asked not to be named because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

The CIA “got it completely wrong,” said one former senior U.S. intelligence official, who is knowledgeable about what the CIA was reporting when the Russian invasion began. “They thought Russia would win right away.”

When it became clear that the agency’s predictions of a rapid Russian victory had been wrong, the Biden administration sent the clandestine assets that had been pulled out of Ukraine back into the country, the military and intelligence officials said. One U.S. official insisted that the CIA only conducted a partial withdrawal of its assets when the war began, and that the agency “never completely left.”

Yet clandestine American operations inside Ukraine are now far more extensive than they were early in the war, when U.S. intelligence officials were fearful that Russia would steamroll over the Ukrainian army. There is a much larger presence of both CIA and U.S. special operations personnel and resources in Ukraine than there were at the time of the Russian invasion in February, several current and former intelligence officials told The Intercept.

More: https://theintercept.com/2022/10/05/russia-ukraine-putin-cia/

Online DB

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The CIA rotted from the head down.

Offline Hoodat

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Avril Haines is the Director of National Intelligence.  What more needs to be said?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Did they get a bunch of people from State?
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline GtHawk

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Why did they get it so wrong? When was the last time the CIA got something right?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Why did they get it so wrong? When was the last time the CIA got something right?
Pre Obama, for sure. .. and likely when they had the HUMINT assets they had before Madeline Allbright lost her laptop.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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I'm not defending the CIA,but WHO actually thought the Neo-Soviets would have any trouble at all rolling over the whole country?

I don't mind admitting I was stunned to see the Ukrainians handing them their asses.

Of course,we all understand now that a large part of that was due to the Ukrainians defending their homelands,and the Neo-Soviet Army is mostly populated by people that don't even want to be in uniform,as well as maybe THE most dogmatic military in the world.

From what we have learned,it doesn't even seem like many of the company grade officers wanted to be there.

I state "Maybe" because we haven't seen the Chinese hordes in action lately.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 11:27:12 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

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I'm not defending the CIA,but WHO actually thought the Neo-Soviets would have any trouble at all rolling over the whole country?

I don't mind admitting I was stunned to see the Ukrainians handing them their asses.

Of course,we all understand now that a large part of that was due to the Ukrainians defending their homelands,and the Neo-Soviet Army is mostly populated by people that don't even want to be in uniform,as well as maybe THE most dogmatic military in the world.

From what we have learned,it doesn't even seem like many of the company grade officers wanted to be there.

I state "Maybe" because we haven't seen the Chinese hordes in action lately.
You  can only fudge the maintenance logs for so long before it bites you in the ass
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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You  can only fudge the maintenance logs for so long before it bites you in the ass

@Smokin Joe

Yup!

Reality can be a real bitch.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Did they get a bunch of people from State?

Funny you should mention it.  That is exactly where Avril Haines came from.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline unite for individuality

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From the start of this war, I figured that
Ukraine was fighting so fiercely because
they remembered the Holodomor.

In the 1930s, the Soviet Union
went into every home in Ukraine and took all the food,
intentionally starving to death several million people.

You can be sure that the survivors of this atrocity
told their children and grandchildren,
so that the knowledge of this
would be as fresh today as it was 90 years ago.

Every single Ukranian knows that surrender means death -
a very long, drawn out, painful death.
Every single Ukranian does not hesitate even slightly
to fight the Russians in the most daring ways possible
because they know that dying in battle is A LOT less painful
than what would happen to them if the Russians win.

If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion,
mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
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Here are the 10 RINOs who voted to impeach Trump on Jan. 13, 2021 - NEVER forget!
WY  Liz Cheney      SC 7  Tom Rice             WA 4  Dan Newhouse    IL 16  Adam Kinzinger    OH 16  Anthony Gonzalez
MI 6  Fred Upton    WA 3  Jaime Herrera Beutler    MI 3  Peter Meijer       NY 24  John Katko       CA 21  David Valadao

Offline sneakypete

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From the start of this war, I figured that
Ukraine was fighting so fiercely because
they remembered the Holodomor.

In the 1930s, the Soviet Union
went into every home in Ukraine and took all the food,
intentionally starving to death several million people.

You can be sure that the survivors of this atrocity
told their children and grandchildren,
so that the knowledge of this
would be as fresh today as it was 90 years ago.

Every single Ukranian knows that surrender means death -
a very long, drawn out, painful death.
Every single Ukranian does not hesitate even slightly
to fight the Russians in the most daring ways possible
because they know that dying in battle is A LOT less painful
than what would happen to them if the Russians win.


@unite for individuality

I did not know that.

Thank you!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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The CIA has become too dependent upon high-tech surveillance.

They need to develop more humand assets on the ground.

There is a very high level of nationalist animosity among Ukranians and Poles towards Russia. 

Stalin's attempts to eradicate their identities, languages, cultures, histories, and existence are still fresh in their collective national memories.

Give the Ukranians everything they need as long as they are willing to sacrifice their own blood to defend themselves.
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Comrades, I swear on Trump's soul that I am not working from a CIA troll farm in Kiev.

Offline Hoodat

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The CIA has become too dependent upon high-tech surveillance.

They need to develop more human assets on the ground.

We lost two dozen human assets on the ground in Iran two years into the Obama Administration because someone within that administration leaked that info directly to Iran.  Considering those betrayals, it would be wildly foolish for anyone in the world to do work for the CIA.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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The US Government is not trustworthy enough to risk your life and your family's lives.
Self-Anointed Deplorable Expert Chowderhead Pundit
I reserve my God-given rights to be wrong and to be stupid at all times.

"If at first you don’t succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried." - Steven Wright

Comrades, I swear on Trump's soul that I am not working from a CIA troll farm in Kiev.

Offline Smokin Joe

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We lost two dozen human assets on the ground in Iran two years into the Obama Administration because someone within that administration leaked that info directly to Iran.  Considering those betrayals, it would be wildly foolish for anyone in the world to do work for the CIA.
That's what happens when you have a shake and bake Muslim as DCI.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis