Author Topic: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care  (Read 4600 times)

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HonestJohn

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2016, 09:49:47 pm »
I believe a "refundable" tax credit would be paid as cash to individuals too poor to pay income taxes, who provides proof of purchase of qualified insurance (perhaps the individual could assign the refundable credit directly to the insurance provider.)

The tax credit can be claimed, generally speaking, only by those who purchase individual insurance.  While one could opt out of one's employer's group plan, for most the group plan will likely be a better deal.  Maybe employers could incentivize employees with cash to opt out of group plans and purchase individual insurance.   

I see no reason to provide a refundable tax credit to purchase individual insurance to anyone over 65 who is eligible for Medicare.

This is meant to replace Medicare as well.

Online WhatWouldReaganDo

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2016, 09:58:18 pm »
If the govt is serious about health care, then not one damn dime of your money should be taxed until you've paid for insurance and fully fund an HSA type account.

Businesses should be highly incentivized with tax credits with matching funds for insurance and HSA type accounts. Clear up to if they want to pay the whole cost. Especially small businesses, to the point where it costs them nothing to near nothing to do so if they are profitable.

Insurance companies should be incentivized to take pools of high risk and preexisting with similar incentives. Make it cost effective for them to take on these people and insure them.

People who are low income, while it's not the most conservative solution, can simply be subsidized after applying for and receiving insurance.

Last, those that have pre-existing and chronic or terminal are being treated now end up on Medicare or Medicaid till things run their course, then they can go into the insurance pool. Get rid of fraud and inefficiencies in the program, however.

That's going to cost the govt alot of tax money, but if they're serious about health care, then that's the sacrifice they need to make.

Better yet, remove employers entirely from the health care business.
I don't have to change my auto or life insurance when I switch jobs, why should health insurance be any different?

Change employer plans to risk pools which workers aren't forced to leave when they change jobs. Similar to a credit union.
States can set up their own pools for the unemployable and/or uninsurable.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2016, 10:09:47 pm »
Yes, by all means read Price's proposal - it's comprehensive and worthy of study.   There's no need to get your news filtered through the usual biased sources.   

Here is a better proposal. 

GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY!
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2016, 05:50:56 am »
Better yet, remove employers entirely from the health care business.
I don't have to change my auto or life insurance when I switch jobs, why should health insurance be any different?

Change employer plans to risk pools which workers aren't forced to leave when they change jobs. Similar to a credit union.
States can set up their own pools for the unemployable and/or uninsurable.

Because it's not the govts job to tell businesses whether they can or cannot offer insurance. That's between the employee and employer. For good or bad, it's a hiring perk to draw talent.

COBRA will allow you to keep any plan you have with your employer.
The Republic is lost.

Online DB

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2016, 07:25:41 am »
Here is a better proposal. 

GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY!

Exactly. There is no constitutional authority for the federal government to be involved with our healthcare period. Let the states determine healthcare laws. Many here seem to just want a different flavor of big government.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2016, 07:52:33 am »
For those interested in Dr Price's previous health care intentions (free market reform, High risk pools, etc.), the below is from Price's original bill.  I highly recommend reading...

Sec. 101. Refundable Tax Credit for Health Insurance Coverage

Provides for refundable, age adjusted tax credits with amounts tied to average insurance on individual market adjusted for inflation.

$1,200 for those between 18 to 35 years of age
$2,100 for those between 35 and 50 years of age
$3,000 for those who are 50 years and older
$900 per child up to age 18

Defines qualified health insurance (in order to qualify for a tax credit) as any insurance that
constitutes medical care (i.e., major medical, qualified coverage in the state of purchase) but does not solely include excepted benefits as defined in section 9832(c) of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), such as wrap around, vision-only or disease specific plans.

The credit is not available to those receiving federal or other benefits including:

Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, TRICARE, VA benefits, FEHBP, or individuals in employer subsidized
group plans

Prohibits an individual who is not a citizen or lawful permanent resident from receiving a credit.

Provision to make sure it is only one benefit and there is no extra payout, double benefit rule.



Sec. 102. Election of Tax Credit Instead of Alternative Government or Group Plan Benefits

Allows individuals to opt out of Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, and VA benefits and receive tax credit to purchase personal health plan instead.

Allows individuals to opt out of Medicare without losing Social Security benefits (as dictated by current law).

Allows individuals enrolled in either a FEHBP or an employer subsidized group plan to opt out and receive a credit instead.


Other Provisions

Sec. 131. Limitation on Employer-Provided Health Care Coverage

Allows for the employer exclusion of health care coverage up to $20,000 for a family and $8,000 for an individual, with any additional funds used to be  taxable dollars

Sec. 132. Limitation on Abortion Funding

Requires that no federal funds authorized under, or  credits or deductions allowed under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 by reason of, this bill may be  used to pay for abortion (exceptions if the pregnancy endangers a women’s life or was the result of rape or incest) or cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion

snip

Sec. 136. Credit for Small Employers Adopting Auto-Enrollment and Defined Contribution Options

Small businesses (50 employees and under) may receive grants, up to $1,500, to offset the
administrative burden to institute auto-enrollment or a defined contribution. 

This credit is available on a one-time basis.

The ability to claim a credit expires two years after date of enactment.



HR 2300 Overview (11 pages)


HR2300 Complete Bill PDF "Empowering Patients First Act
One demographic I do not see being considered is the growing demographic of grandparents who are raising grandchildren. By the time our youngest turns 18, my wife will be well able to draw Social Security, But we'd get no tax credit fro insurance we'd have to carry until he is 26, on a retired 'income'? That dog won't hunt, and getting fined for not doing so is messed up, too.

How about getting rid of the Oxygen Tax first (The one you pay just for breathing).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2016, 12:08:42 pm »
Exactly. There is no constitutional authority for the federal government to be involved with our healthcare period. Let the states determine healthcare laws. Many here seem to just want a different flavor of big government.

Aye.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2016, 12:14:35 pm »
Exactly. There is no constitutional authority for the federal government to be involved with our healthcare period. Let the states determine healthcare laws. Many here seem to just want a different flavor of big government.
Precisely.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline verga

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2016, 01:04:12 pm »
Bureaucrats are deathly afraid of the concept of treating citizens like adults.

The fact that some states now require one to be 21 to buy a pack of cigarettes is a head shaker. When I turned 18, my stepfather gave me the ok to grab a beer from the fridge. If you're old enough to sign a contract or enlist in the military, you're old enough to drink a beer.
They are terrified that citizens will actually act like adults. If you act like an adult and take responsibility for your actions you will find that you need a lot less government than you originally thought.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2016, 01:19:19 pm »
They are terrified that citizens will actually act like adults. If you act like an adult and take responsibility for your actions you will find that you need a lot less government than you originally thought.
Actually, I have found that if you take responsibility for your actions and act like an adult, the bureaucrats resent the Hell out of it. The more you are self-sufficient, the less they like you, and the more they will do to prove you need to have them telling you how to live.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2016, 01:25:29 pm »
Actually, I have found that if you take responsibility for your actions and act like an adult, the bureaucrats resent the Hell out of it. The more you are self-sufficient, the less they like you, and the more they will do to prove you need to have them telling you how to live.

OH Yeah!!!  YOU are off the plantation and we CANNOT have that!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2016, 04:15:22 pm »
OH Yeah!!!  YOU are off the plantation and we CANNOT have that!
Dat's right boss! I been over here where the green grass grows and the cotton is all tall for a while, now. (please Bre'r fox! Don' throw me in that briar patch!)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2016, 06:28:59 pm »

Healthcare is a product and a service. 

Healthcare isn't what we're talking about.  Rather, the issue is healthcare financing ,  which, for most of us, means healthcare insurance.   Insurance regulation has traditionally been a core function of government.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline bilo

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2016, 06:49:43 pm »
Here's something I encountered in Central America. Some hospitals have memberships. You become a member of a hospital and all your care is provided for by that hospital.

My wife and I currently travel to Central America for some of our medical care and we just pay for it. The cost is usually about a third of what it would be in the USA.

The trend in the USA is for doctors to be employees of hospitals and private practices are in decline so why not just deal directly with the hospital?
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

geronl

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2016, 10:00:50 pm »
Because it's not the govts job to tell businesses whether they can or cannot offer insurance. That's between the employee and employer. For good or bad, it's a hiring perk to draw talent.

COBRA will allow you to keep any plan you have with your employer.

COBRA is too expensive for a lot of people though

geronl

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2016, 10:01:39 pm »
Here's something I encountered in Central America. Some hospitals have memberships. You become a member of a hospital and all your care is provided for by that hospital.

I like the idea. Send your monthly payment to the hospital not an insurer

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2016, 12:31:28 pm »
COBRA is too expensive for a lot of people though
Yep. In the layoff that impelled me to go into business for myself, the COBRA for insurance was only $2000.00/month. Not compatible with a layoff, but it looks like a good idea in print.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2016, 01:19:06 pm »
Here's something I encountered in Central America. Some hospitals have memberships. You become a member of a hospital and all your care is provided for by that hospital.

My wife and I currently travel to Central America for some of our medical care and we just pay for it. The cost is usually about a third of what it would be in the USA.

The trend in the USA is for doctors to be employees of hospitals and private practices are in decline so why not just deal directly with the hospital?

If left alone the marketplace will perform wonders!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2016, 01:31:54 pm »
Yep. In the layoff that impelled me to go into business for myself, the COBRA for insurance was only $2000.00/month. Not compatible with a layoff, but it looks like a good idea in print.

COBRA sure helps focus one on the true cost of offering health coverage by employers.  It's damned expensive. 

By the way,  Tom Price's reform proposal, the Empowering Patients First Act, would place a $8,000 cap on an employer's ability to deduct the cost of heath insurance provided to single employees, and $20,000 to employees with families.   The idea is to discourage gold-plated health coverage.   

People need more choices about how much of their health care costs they want to finance by means of insurance.   How many folks here would prefer the choice of a reasonable policy that pays for annual checkups and vaccines, and nothing else until your annual health care spend exceeds, say, $5,000?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2016, 01:43:11 pm »
COBRA sure helps focus one on the true cost of offering health coverage by employers.  It's damned expensive. 

By the way,  Tom Price's reform proposal, the Empowering Patients First Act, would place a $8,000 cap on an employer's ability to deduct the cost of heath insurance provided to single employees, and $20,000 to employees with families.   The idea is to discourage gold-plated health coverage.   

People need more choices about how much of their health care costs they want to finance by means of insurance.   How many folks here would prefer the choice of a reasonable policy that pays for annual checkups and vaccines, and nothing else until your annual health care spend exceeds, say, $5,000?   

I would favor allowing me to buy or choose insurance coverage tailored to MY specific needs at this current time in my life.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2016, 02:10:14 pm »
COBRA sure helps focus one on the true cost of offering health coverage by employers.  It's damned expensive. 

By the way,  Tom Price's reform proposal, the Empowering Patients First Act, would place a $8,000 cap on an employer's ability to deduct the cost of heath insurance provided to single employees, and $20,000 to employees with families.   The idea is to discourage gold-plated health coverage.   

People need more choices about how much of their health care costs they want to finance by means of insurance.   How many folks here would prefer the choice of a reasonable policy that pays for annual checkups and vaccines, and nothing else until your annual health care spend exceeds, say, $5,000?   
I had a 5K deductible per event, 80/20 after that to ten grand, and they took over from there. No vision, no dental, but have an account I pay for all that from in pre-tax dollars, up to 7550 a year. So, that went to the small stuff, and held enough for deductible, co-pay, etc.  It all worked fine for me, until my provider simply quit. No more health insurance.

Mrs. Joe and I had done the math on what we used annually in actual medical care, even with whatever the insurance had paid, and the actual costs were a fraction of the cost of insurance. At that point, it made more sense to cover the big stuff and pay the little bills out of pocket, and economically, we came out well ahead for years. Now, we'll get fined for breathing.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2016, 03:23:16 pm »
I would favor allowing me to buy or choose insurance coverage tailored to MY specific needs at this current time in my life.

Exactly!   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Tom Price's radically conservative vision for American health care
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2016, 05:25:45 pm »
If left alone the marketplace will perform wonders!

The invisible hand.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-