Apache Helicopter on Training Exercise Accidentally Shot with Live Ammo

[rangerrebew]

Apache Helicopter on Training Exercise Accidentally Shot with Live Ammo

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a20964/apache-helicopter-on-training-exercise-accidentally-shot-with-live-ammo/

​How the soldier got live ammunition is a mystery, say Army officials.​
 

By Kyle Mizokami
May 20, 2016
 
A soldier at an U.S. Army training center struck an attack helicopter with live rounds, causing the aircraft to land and triggering an investigation.

The incident, which took place at the National Training Center in southern California, was first reported at the US Army WTF! Facebook page. The soldier, whose unit was deployed from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington State, was temporarily attached to the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment. The "Blackhorse Regiment" plays the OPFOR, or Opposing Force in realistic wargames designed to prepare U.S. Army units for war.

According to the Facebook page, the soldier was equipped with an M4 carbine and was using his own magazines issued to him by his unit—not magazines issued to him at the National Training Center. A blank firing adaptor, a device attached to a rifle's muzzle allowing it to use blank ammunition properly, had been attached to the rifle but was blown off by the first live round.

M16A2 rifles equipped with blank firing adaptors.

The soldier scored "5 to 7 hits" on the Apache before it was realized he was using live ammunition. An initial report that the Apache was damaged enough to force it to land is seemingly contradicted by a later update that the helicopter was ordered to land.

No one onboard the helicopter was injured. The Army Times reports an investigation is underway to determine exactly how the incident took place. It seems likely though that the soldier simply mistook magazines filled with live ammunition for the magazines filled with blank ammunition he was supposed to use instead.

The Army Times reported that training resumed later in the day after a "100 percent" inspection took place to ensure there were no more live rounds present.

[MajorClay]

This is never good.  Must treat all weapons as loaded. 

[don-o]

This is never good.  Must treat all weapons as loaded.

Does that really apply in military training?

[rangerrebew]

Does that really apply in military training?

That is what we were taught in the conceal/carry class I took.  Being in the Navy I only fired 10 rounds from a 22 rifle but, as I remember it, we were never to point the weapon toward anyone unless we mean to use it.  The person firing the bullets did nothing wrong but it deserves an investigation to see how those live rounds got in there.

[EC]

Does that really apply in military training?

Doubly so. After all, most of the time we're actually aiming at some ONE. Not a paper target.

[don-o]

Doubly so. After all, most of the time we're actually aiming at some ONE. Not a paper target.

But if it is, say, a fire team exercise, would you not be "intending to kill" with the blanks?

Full disclosure: I was the weather guy in the AFand amquite out of my depth.

[EC]

Other units vary. Mine treats all weapons training as real. It's the only way to make it a reflexive action. We found in my unit that training solely on targets - you can develop some crack shots, but the same crack shots are usually among the 40% who don't fire their weapon in an actual fire fight.

My unit does all sorts of training. Range work, of course (I have held the distinction of being the worst pistol shot by far for ten years in a row. On a good day I can hit the floor. If I drop it.). Blanks. Every 20th round live for crawl exercises (there are depression limiters on the MG's we use, so you can crawl under them in perfect safety - if you keep your head and ass down). Capture the flag, where the defenders are armed with bean bag rounds (those things HURT!). Paintball. Laser tag. Nerf gun fights at night in the barracks with all the fuses pulled. Supersoakers filled with a dilute CS2 solution. It's all designed to get people used to evading gunfire and comfortable with shooting at people.

[Fishrrman]

Did the soldier -look at- the rounds in the magazine before he loaded it?

I never fired either an M-16 or M-14 with blanks -- only live ammo.
And that was a L-O-N-G time ago!

But sumthin' tells me that a blank cartridge looks significantly different than does a live one!

And wouldn't he have been able to tell by the recoil that the ammo he was using was live?
Granted, I doubt the M-4 -has- much recoil, but I'm certain a live round must "feel and sound" different than a blank!

[EC]

Recoil, not so much. Blanks have slightly less bang than live, but not much (Without the actual bullet to create the necessary back pressure, the auto doesn't work well, or at all. The blank firing adaptor's job is to supply that back pressure by more or less blocking the muzzle - they are pretty shitty at it though), and the M4 doesn't have much of a kick in the first place. He should have noticed the mags were not as light as they should be.

But more importantly - he should have double checked before the exercise, and whoever was running the exercise should have issued blank loaded mags to every participant at the git go. It's not like there are never enough squaddies on someone's shit list to make a loading detail all that difficult to fill out!

[rangerrebew]

But if it is, say, a fire team exercise, would you not be "intending to kill" with the blanks?

Full disclosure: I was the weather guy in the AFand amquite out of my depth.

I was a weather guesser in the Navy aboard the U.S.S. Ranger.  I never expected to meet one again from the Navy, let alone the AF.

[don-o]

I was a weather guesser in the Navy aboard the U.S.S. Ranger.  I never expected to meet one again from the Navy, let alone the AF.

Well, I got screwed over in assignments. Instead of in the weather shack, I fought the war hand plotting maps in Global Weather Central at Offut.

Rip teletype, grab blank map, enter enter five or six pieces of data with a rapidiograph for each station. Rinse and repeat.

Only relief was the discipline was pretty lax and we made a way to actually enjoy it.