The Briefing Room
General Category => Trump Legal Investigations => Topic started by: rangerrebew on June 09, 2023, 05:42:56 pm
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Meghan McCain Sounds Alarm Over ‘Terrifying’ Trump Indictment: ‘This Will Tear Us Apart’
Story by Jennifer Bowers Bahney • 43m ago
Meghan McCain, former co-host of The View and current Daily Mail columnist, wrote that she can feel the turmoil over Donald Trump‘s “terrifying” criminal indictment “in the pit of my stomach.”
McCain’s Friday column came under the heading, “The federal indictment of a president is a shattering and seismic moment – but unlike grave crises that brought us together, this will rip us apart. And it’s terrifying.”
McCain gave examples of momentous historical events that caused Americans to band together.
“Richard Nixon‘s resignation showed the country that their president was, in fact, a crook. The September 11th attacks revealed our powerful nation to be incredibly vulnerable. The January 6th riots exposed the gaping rifts that had torn open between us all.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/meghan-mccain-sounds-alarm-over-terrifying-trump-indictment-this-will-tear-us-apart/ar-AA1clqnU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=37411b4899fc4c6c895500413111a4fe&ei=91
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IF Trump is put behind bars, which IMHO is likely, it will definitely tear the country apart. Not for the reasons she gives. The reason it will tear us apart is because of the obvious sheer corruption of the DOJ and the continual witch hunt. I am still completely convinced that the insurrection on J6 was orchestrated by Pelosi, Pence and others to make it appear that it was Trump's fault and his supporters.
We could see enormous pushback from his supporters -- that's an unknown yet.
Then we have the leftists --- Antifa, BLM that will also undoubtedly push right back.
So she has reason to be terrified. It could get down to everyone for themselves.
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You campaigned for Biden, cupcake, so own it. This is exactly what you wanted.
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Trump was a private citizen when he wouldn't return Government property, and when he lied about having returned it all.
Don't steal Government property. Don't lie about possessing Government property. Don't obstruct the Government's attempt to recover Government property.
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Trump was a private citizen when he wouldn't return Government property, and when he lied about having returned it all.
Don't steal Government property. Don't lie about possessing Government property. Don't obstruct the Government's attempt to recover Government property.
And don't pretend a president cannot make documents Unclassified.
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Reminds me of a quote that seems to be on point if they Lock Trump up; "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."
Stock up on Guns and Ammo my friends.
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I don't believe either of these cases will ever be tried. The New York case illegally uses federal law to justify a local prosecution, which would otherwise be outside the statute of limitations. This case assumes federal procedures have more salience than the constitutional authority of the POTUS to declassify documents in any way he sees fit. In both cases, I believe the Supreme Court will deny prosecution, if an appeals court doesn't do it first.
I think the Democrats well know this too. So why are they prosecuting at all? They want to turn Trump into a martyr. They know this will solidify voters toward Trump in the primaries, but will be viewed with suspicion by average voters in a general election. In short, the Dems are using their power to appoint the GOP nominee.
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IF Trump is put behind bars, which IMHO is likely, it will definitely tear the country apart.
The country is already torn apart ---- it is primed to explode.
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The country is already torn apart ---- it is primed to explode.
I agree RiV. We live in bad times. This will make it worse.
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So why are they prosecuting at all? They want to turn Trump into a martyr. They know this will solidify voters toward Trump in the primaries, but will be viewed with suspicion by average voters in a general election.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNq-FGG93NdI8lI8SWfZwXje9Q36wHuto4TYwy9J9w1A&s)
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I agree RiV. We live in bad times. This will make it worse.
IMO, this is all bringing the fight that's been looming for decades to the battlefield. I don't like the odds on which side surrenders.
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I agree RiV. We live in bad times. This will make it worse.
Trump, an unwitting martyr.
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This case assumes federal procedures have more salience than the constitutional authority of the POTUS to declassify documents in any way he sees fit. In both cases, I believe the Supreme Court will deny prosecution, if an appeals court doesn't do it first.
I don't think an ex-President can declassify documents retroactively simply by claiming he "thought" declassified them while he was still actually president. He must have taken some action of some kind while President demonstrating that he did in fact declassify them, and he didn't. And I don't think the Supreme Court will accept that argument either because it's kind of ridiculous. It means that on the day prior to his death, Jimmy Carter could have simply announced that he had decided, while President 40+ years ago, to declassify every single document relating to U.S. nuclear weapons,. And the moment he announces that, any in the military is free to tell that information to anyone because it is no longer classified.
The law doesn't like absurdities.
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And don't pretend a president cannot make documents Unclassified.
Presidents can. Ex-Presidents can't. And an ex-President saying "I mentally declassified all these documents while I was President, even though I didn't put in anywhere in writing or tell anyone, is basically giving the power of declassification to every ex-President.
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I don't think an ex-President can declassify documents retroactively simply by claiming he "thought" declassified them while he was still actually president. He must have taken some action of some kind while President demonstrating that he did in fact declassify them, and he didn't.
He packed them up and took them. That very act alone might be construed to mean he declassified them. Presidents are pretty much above the law when it comes to classified documents. The fact that they are trying Trump under the Espionage Act shows that they are trying to avoid the Presidential Powers Act, under which the POTUS has the authority to do whatever he wants.
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He packed them up and took them. That very act alone might be construed to mean he declassified them. Presidents are pretty much above the law when it comes to classified documents. The fact that they are trying Trump under the Espionage Act shows that they are trying to avoid the Presidential Powers Act, under which the POTUS has the authority to do whatever he wants.
Nope. It doesn't work that way at all.
Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Presidential Records and the Presidential Records Act
Media Alert ·
Friday, June 9, 2023
https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2023/nr23-016
At any rate, Trump just torpedoed himself in the recording of his meeting with the book publisher and reporter:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/09/politics/trump-tape-didnt-declassify-secret-information/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-classified-document-recording-evidence.html
He's done!
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Trump is his own worst enemy. Offering the prosecutors their own evidence against him. Braggidly displaying a map of a possible attack on Iran he is quoted "As President I could have declassified it" and, "Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."
If he did something so stupid AND had it recorded he deserves everything coming to him.
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Trump is his own worst enemy. Offering the prosecutors their own evidence against him. Displaying a map of a possible attack on Iran he is quoted "As President I could have declassified it" and, "Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."
If he did something so stupid AND had it recorded he deserves everything coming to him.
I understand what you are saying, but I do find it a little odd that he himself would have it recorded. I am thinking more along the lines that he didn't know that it was being recorded. Trump has made a lot of enemies or perhaps people that he normally associates with have been bought. Trump should be less trusting. It's a shame, but I think that's just the way it is. Who in his circle can he actually trust???
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I understand what you are saying, but I do find it a little odd that he himself would have it recorded. I am thinking more along the lines that he didn't know that it was being recorded. Trump has made a lot of enemies or perhaps people that he normally associates with have been bought. Trump should be less trusting. It's a shame, but I think that's just the way it is. Who in his circle can he actually trust???
I think at least one of the compromising conversations was with journalists who were recording the conversation with Trump's knowledge. The feds got the tapes through the subpoena process. It was pretty stupid of Trump, nonetheless. I guess he hasn't been playing 4 dimensional chess, after all.
Honestly, who among us could survive a federal investigation into our affairs if the Feds really wanted to get us? You ever download something illegally? Do your mattresses all have their labels? Etc.
Don't get me wrong. I never voted for Trump in a primary, and I never will. I was never taken in by the guy. But it seems clear to me that this is a politically-motivated prosecution, and there is a bit of meat on the bone (though I still think the case will never be tried).
It does show that the reason Trump wanted these documents was for ammunition against his political enemies, as opposed to selling the information, which is what Hunter Biden did.
That does not excuse Trump. It just goes to the double standard thing.
It's time for Trump to endorse DeSantis in exchange for a pardon. This anvil is just too heavy for Trump to carry through a general election.
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Presidents can. Ex-Presidents can't. And an ex-President saying "I mentally declassified all these documents while I was President, even though I didn't put in anywhere in writing or tell anyone, is basically giving the power of declassification to every ex-President.
He wrote a memo dated Jan 19, 2109 declassifying what he had at MAL. I believe that means he was President on that date.
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He wrote a memo dated Jan 19, 2109 declassifying what he had at MAL. I believe that means he was President on that date.
If you're referring to the Crossfire Hurricane memo, that actually makes his legal position worse than if it didn't exist at all for a few reasons:
1) It's a formal, written and signed memo declassifying specific documents related to Crossfire Hurricane, and to no other documents:
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/
2. The existence of the memo proves that when Trump wanted to declassify documents, he knew exactly how to do it. He didn't just say after he left office that "by the way, I declassified those Crossfire Hurricane documents in my head". He had it written down and signed while he was still President so nobody could dispute that he had taken an official Presidential action. That's just common sense, right? It also ensures that the entities within the government responsible for tracking and safeguarding that classified information know that it is no longer classified. They won't know it if he doesn't tell them.
3. Given that he signed this particular declassification memo on January 19, left office the very next day and took all those other documents with him, it begs the question of why - if he truly did intend to declassify all those other documents -- he didn't just do the exact same thing he did with the Crossfire Hurricane documents? He's got a huge staff, lawyers, etc.. All he had to do was say "do up another memo applying to all these other documents I'm taking so I can sign that one too." But he didn't. So the question is...why?
The most logical conclusion to be drawn from that is that he had not decided to declassify all those other document.
3. If Trump truly believed that he could declassify documents simply by "thought", he wouldn't have needed that Crossfire Hurricane memo in the first place.
I think one thing that is very important to understand is that when documents are declassified, that applies to everyone, and to every copy of the document. That means anyone in the government could make the information publicly without being accused of disclosing classified material. So if Trump actually had said "I am officially declassifying all those documents", he's basically letting bad guys get that information. And presumably, there is some information in there that he did not want bad guys to get access to. So, he didn't declassify those documents. He just took them with him while they were still classified, and therefore would continue to be treated as such by the government.
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Wendy Patterson
@wendyp4545
They publicly announce the date time and location that Trump is forced to attend and the Secret Service isn't making special accommodations?
They're making Trump a target. Is the plan to have him killed using a losing case as the means to get Trump at the location for the opportunity to present itself? Secret Service will not seek ‘special accommodations’ for Trump’s Miami court appearance
By Victor Nava
June 10, 2023 1:05am
The Secret Service will not seek “special accommodations” ahead of former President Donald Trump’s arraignment in a Miami federal courthouse on charges related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents, a spokesman for the agency said Friday.
“While operational security precludes us from going into specifics, the Secret Service will not seek any special accommodations outside of what would be required to ensure the former president’s continued safety,” Secret Service Chief of Communications Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement on Friday.
“As with any site visited by a protectee, the Secret Service is in constant coordination with the necessary entities to ensure protective requirements are met. We have the utmost confidence in the professionalism and commitment to security shared by our law enforcement partners in Florida,” he added ...
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/secret-service-will-not-seek-special-accommodations-for-trumps-miami-court-appearance/)
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Wendy Patterson
@wendyp4545
They publicly announce the date time and location that Trump is forced to attend and the Secret Service isn't making special accommodations?
They're making Trump a target. Is the plan to have him killed using a losing case as the means to get Trump at the location for the opportunity to present itself?NY Post (https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/secret-service-will-not-seek-special-accommodations-for-trumps-miami-court-appearance/)
Yeah, that smells to high Heaven.
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This is pretty damning:
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,502186.msg2846723.html#msg2846723
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Wendy Patterson
@wendyp4545
They publicly announce the date time and location that Trump is forced to attend and the Secret Service isn't making special accommodations?
They're making Trump a target. Is the plan to have him killed using a losing case as the means to get Trump at the location for the opportunity to present itself?NY Post (https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/secret-service-will-not-seek-special-accommodations-for-trumps-miami-court-appearance/)
Doesn't Trump have his own private security detail??
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If you're referring to the Crossfire Hurricane memo, that actually makes his legal position worse than if it didn't exist at all for a few reasons:
1) It's a formal, written and signed memo declassifying specific documents related to Crossfire Hurricane, and to no other documents:
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-declassification-certain-materials-related-fbis-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/
2. The existence of the memo proves that when Trump wanted to declassify documents, he knew exactly how to do it. He didn't just say after he left office that "by the way, I declassified those Crossfire Hurricane documents in my head". He had it written down and signed while he was still President so nobody could dispute that he had taken an official Presidential action. That's just common sense, right? It also ensures that the entities within the government responsible for tracking and safeguarding that classified information know that it is no longer classified. They won't know it if he doesn't tell them.
3. Given that he signed this particular declassification memo on January 19, left office the very next day and took all those other documents with him, it begs the question of why - if he truly did intend to declassify all those other documents -- he didn't just do the exact same thing he did with the Crossfire Hurricane documents? He's got a huge staff, lawyers, etc.. All he had to do was say "do up another memo applying to all these other documents I'm taking so I can sign that one too." But he didn't. So the question is...why?
The most logical conclusion to be drawn from that is that he had not decided to declassify all those other document.
3. If Trump truly believed that he could declassify documents simply by "thought", he wouldn't have needed that Crossfire Hurricane memo in the first place.
I think one thing that is very important to understand is that when documents are declassified, that applies to everyone, and to every copy of the document. That means anyone in the government could make the information publicly without being accused of disclosing classified material. So if Trump actually had said "I am officially declassifying all those documents", he's basically letting bad guys get that information. And presumably, there is some information in there that he did not want bad guys to get access to. So, he didn't declassify those documents. He just took them with him while they were still classified, and therefore would continue to be treated as such by the government.
Interesting, but I don't think it had anything to do with Crossfire Hurricane. TBH, I have no idea.
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Doesn't Trump have his own private security detail??
@libertybele
I am sure he does,but there is no way in hell the SS is going to allow them to be armed in DC.
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Doesn't Trump have his own private security detail??
I thought the USSS was obligated to protect him. Sounds like they're only "kind of" going to protect him.
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I thought the USSS was obligated to protect him. Sounds like they're only "kind of" going to protect him.
@mountain.eer
I am no longer certain the SS can be counted on to protect Trump
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@mountain.eer
I am no longer certain the SS can be counted on to protect Trump
They never could be. That's why Trump had his personal detail.
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Interesting, but I don't think it had anything to do with Crossfire Hurricane. TBH, I have no idea.
As far as I'm aware, the only memo he executed on January 19 relating to the declassification of documents is the one I linked in my post. I've never heard of anything else, couldn't find anything else, and have never seen any other memo identified. The one I linked in my post is it.
If someone out there is telling people there is some other memo out there broader than that one, then you should ask them to identify/link to it. They won't, though, because this is it. If not...wouldn't you expect Trump to be waving that memo from the rooftops saying "I declassified all those documents, and it isn't just me "deciding" to do it but not telling anyone?
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Wendy Patterson
@wendyp4545
They publicly announce the date time and location that Trump is forced to attend and the Secret Service isn't making special accommodations?
They're making Trump a target. Is the plan to have him killed using a losing case as the means to get Trump at the location for the opportunity to present itself?NY Post (https://nypost.com/2023/06/10/secret-service-will-not-seek-special-accommodations-for-trumps-miami-court-appearance/)
Exactly what is meant by the "special accommodation" that they are refusing to make? The SS says they will provide the normal level of protection provided to a former President. I don't see what the problem is with that.
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Exactly what is meant by the "special accommodation" that they are refusing to make? The SS says they will provide the normal level of protection provided to a former President. I don't see what the problem is with that.
I don't think that the SS can be trusted.
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I don't think that the SS can be trusted.
Well, how many successful assassination attempts have their been on Trump so far?
Even if you don't trust them, I can't see what that has to do with this "special accomodations" angle. That sounds to me like some pundit or member of the press had their own idea of what "special accommodations", and the Secret Service doesn't use that particular term so they responded that they didn't have any. For some reason, people seem to be making a big deal out of that.
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Well, how many successful assassination attempts have their been on Trump so far?
Even if you don't trust them, I can't see what that has to do with this "special accomodations" angle. That sounds to me like some pundit or member of the press had their own idea of what "special accommodations", and the Secret Service doesn't use that particular term so they responded that they didn't have any. For some reason, people seem to be making a big deal out of that.
LOL!
Sure don't see Barack and Mike Obama out and about.
Wizard behind the curtain indeed.
The media and paparazzi are warned by THEIR Secret Service protection detail...which sure as hell makes "special accommodations" for them, to stay away or else.
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The media and paparazzi are warned by THEIR Secret Service protection detail...which sure as hell makes "special accommodations" for them, to stay away or else.
What, specifically, does the term "special accommodations" mean to the Secret Service", and where is that definition located?