When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
Why would any rational human (including Republican) do this @Hoodat ? The "conservatism" represented by the majority of voices here is, for a myriad of reasons, simply unelectable. :shrug:
When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
It would be a very bad move for "Republicans" to dump Trump. If they ever think they're going to get his voters back they are sadly mistaken. I'd rather dump McConnell, McCain, Graham, etc. :0001:
The time to have dumped McConnell, McCain, Graham and the rest of the RINO's was a long time ago...that ship has sailed. Who exactly would we replace them with??
For the most part, they already do...what they don't embrace is Reactionary Fundamentalism. Which is actually a perversion of conservatism, as it invites government into our personal and religious lives.
Why would any rational human (including Republican) do this @Hoodat ? The "conservatism" represented by the majority of voices here is, for a myriad of reasons, simply unelectable.
Right... Government run health care is real "conservative"... Nowhere in the constitution is there authorization of the federal government running health insurance. Zip. Where in the constitution is the allowance of the executive branch to pick which laws it is going to enforce? Like looking the other way for the "good" illegal aliens but getting rid of the "bad" ones? The list is long of such things. It is lawless.
And how many conservatives here on this site give a crap what consenting adults do in their homes? Not many. Your "fundamentalism" claims are false. The actual conservatives on this site are for smaller government and liberty.
The time to have dumped McConnell, McCain, Graham and the rest of the RINO's was a long time ago...that ship has sailed. Who exactly would we replace them with??Hey, if people can fantasize about dumping Trump, than I can have fantasize about dumping McConnell, McCain and Graham.
IMO Trump will dump himself. He's a 70 year old guy in total chaos and strife. That can't be healthy. He could be enjoying his wealth right about now.
I mean I just don't think this is very sustainable.
I'm not prone to apocalyptic political predictions and find myself almost stunned by the situation we are crashing into...we must oppose this with every non-violent means at our disposal. And I'll be honest, I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
I don't know anyone who is advocating for government run healthcare.
This may sound like hyperbole, but we are now openly at war with the Left. They are seeking to override a fair and constitutional election because they did not like the outcome. They are using tactics from street brawling, general rioting, disruption of political rallies, radicalization of students on college campuses, and the domination of the 4th estate for purposes of propaganda and disinformation. They are willing to sacrifice the constitution, democracy, and all of the established rules of our civil society in pursuit of seizing back power. Its a familiar determination, one that cost 100's of millions of lives in the 20th century, but it is rearing in its head now right in front of us...threatening the very fabric of the United States.
If conservatives and Republicans cannot rally together now, we are going to lose this fight and this country...and we will not win it back in our lifetimes. Remember, tyranny and oppression arise from the Left and are shrouded in self-attributed good intentions married to self delusion. We are approaching that moment where the country is going to take a paradigm shift in one direction or another...we will move sharply Left, or we will fight back this tide and hold to the constitution.
I'm not prone to apocalyptic political predictions and find myself almost stunned by the situation we are crashing into...we must oppose this with every non-violent means at our disposal. And I'll be honest, I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
It would be a very bad move for "Republicans" to dump Trump. If they ever think they're going to get his voters back they are sadly mistaken. I'd rather dump McConnell, McCain, Graham, etc. :0001:
I think it is pretty clear that train left the station and isn't coming back. Trump is just a symptom of how far gone things are. By the time the circus leaves town the GOP is going to be a laughing stock and there's going to be hell to pay as a result. GWB gave us Obama, we'll see what Trump brings us. I expect something far worse.
They best not if they want to retain the power they covet. The backlash on election day will be mighty.
This may sound like hyperbole, but we are now openly at war with the Left.
Its a familiar determination, one that cost 100's of millions of lives in the 20th century, but it is rearing in its head now right in front of us...threatening the very fabric of the United States.
If conservatives and Republicans cannot rally together now, we are going to lose this fight and this country...and we will not win it back in our lifetimes.
Remember, tyranny and oppression arise from the Left and are shrouded in self-attributed good intentions married to self delusion.
We are approaching that moment where the country is going to take a paradigm shift in one direction or another...we will move sharply Left, or we will fight back this tide and hold to the constitution.
I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
Aren't you just the little ray of sunshine today.
I don't believe that GWB gave us Obama. I'm expecting the country to move more firmly to the right in the next few years. We've already started in that direction with the House, Senate, Governorships and President.
Where have you been?
Where have you been?
Which is why people like you embrace and push Big Government Populism/Socialism/Fascism -
I embrace your right to opine @INVAR but you know nothing and post from your knee jerk.
Which explains your unwavering Apologetics for a lifelong NY Liberal Democrat who now leads your party and the country, and your propaganda for a party beholden to Big Government as long as they get to manage it.
For the most part, they already do...what they don't embrace is Reactionary Fundamentalism. Which is actually a perversion of conservatism, as it invites government into our personal and religious lives.
This may sound like hyperbole, but we are now openly at war with the Left. They are seeking to override a fair and constitutional election because they did not like the outcome. They are using tactics from street brawling, general rioting, disruption of political rallies, radicalization of students on college campuses, and the domination of the 4th estate for purposes of propaganda and disinformation. They are willing to sacrifice the constitution, democracy, and all of the established rules of our civil society in pursuit of seizing back power. Its a familiar determination, one that cost 100's of millions of lives in the 20th century, but it is rearing in its head now right in front of us...threatening the very fabric of the United States.
If conservatives and Republicans cannot rally together now, we are going to lose this fight and this country...and we will not win it back in our lifetimes. Remember, tyranny and oppression arise from the Left and are shrouded in self-attributed good intentions married to self delusion. We are approaching that moment where the country is going to take a paradigm shift in one direction or another...we will move sharply Left, or we will fight back this tide and hold to the constitution.
I'm not prone to apocalyptic political predictions and find myself almost stunned by the situation we are crashing into...we must oppose this with every non-violent means at our disposal. And I'll be honest, I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
It would be a very bad move for "Republicans" to dump Trump. If they ever think they're going to get his voters back they are sadly mistaken. I'd rather dump McConnell, McCain, Graham, etc. :0001:
I can count on one hand the republicans I trust.
Whether they dump Trump or not is incidental to me...
But not because of Trump.
I trust him less than the rest of them.
Throw all the bastards out. That would be a good start.
When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
The left is at a historic low point, and yet we still cannot seem to get anything done. This is pretty remarkable and yet, government seems paralyzed. Some people blame Trump, some blame the GOP. It's pretty pathetic, frankly.
The post by Invar is the very definition of why we are losing this war with the Left. He'd rather disparage Republicans and Conservatives that he finds "impure", than actually come together and fight the Left. He wants to kill the apostate whilst the barbarian horde bursts through the city gates to kill everyone. Many of us here may not meet your purity test, Invar, but by any classical definition we are every bit the conservative you deem yourself...in many senses, moreso.
And while our disagreements with you are as principle based and adamant as your own, we have the maturity and reason to see that it is the assault from without the Republican/Conservative ranks that is capable of destroying everything we all hold dear....constitutionalism, religious freedom, free speech, and even the electoral nature of our Republic. You want to engage in petty internal squabbles rather than fight the Mongol Horde....and that is idiocy in action. That is not to say I consider you intellectual lacking...on the contrary...but you've let doctrinal fanaticism lead you into behavior that assures the Left will win this battle for the future.
I sincerely and honestly beseech you to aim your fire outside the walls, rather than at the soldiers next to you who you deem imperfect.
Aren't you just the little ray of sunshine today.
I don't believe that GWB gave us Obama. I'm expecting the country to move more firmly to the right in the next few years. We've already started in that direction with the House, Senate, Governorships and President.
If he continues disrespecting Israel Christians will drop him like a hot rock.
No, you are the left.
and it is already gone.
@DB is stone dead right.
You're dreaming. Most don't even know where 'right' is.
It's alright. Ultimately they will learn
Pain is a great teacher.
Folks like INVAR and roamer are worthless politically. They may as well be in league with those seeking to upend the election.
They reside in Cloudcuckooland; the rest of need to gird for what's coming.
"We" nothing.
The GOP is not in open warfare with the Left, they are too busy placating and accommodating them and adopting the Left's Agenda as their own with a few modifications.
@INVAR
Thank you, INVAR, for this well thought out post and taking the time to write it. I copied your words to post them again and here they are:
"The GOP is not in open warfare with the Left, they are too busy placating and accommodating them and adopting the Left's Agenda as their own with a few modifications. The Left is certainly 'at war' with everyone they perceive to be in opposition to them. The 'Right'? Not so much.
We've been warning of that path we have been treading for years to wholesale dismissal from everyone who insisted that could never happen here and/or our salvation rests on political saviors. We will live that which we have chosen to be ignorant of.
You are witness to the fact illustrated on this very board that sharing a commonality is rarely if ever possible. We cannot even agree on what the core moral foundations are supposed to be, much less the definition of liberty as intended. Hell, we cannot even define marriage, or what constitutes a standard family anymore.
It will take a biblically religious revival, of which the majority of churches in this nation are not even interested in, and a majority population who view the bible with hostility, want nothing to do with.
So too does Nationalist Populism that has no problem with big government. Socialism simply by another name.
We are ALREADY sharply Left. Even among the GOP and the 'Moderates' - the Constitution is referenced only when it serves their larger political agenda and have no more use for it's strict adherence anymore than the Democrats do. Populists for Trump have previously stated their opinion is that he needs to act as a dictator. As to fighting back - well, France in the early-to-mid 1790's is most likely what will result, especially when the economic consequences already sown come crashing down on us.
We are already too divided among core issues and values to pose any kind of unified opposition and the majority of the population will side with the Left rather than those who want smaller government."
Why do you haters always take everything personally?
That's right.
I will say it yet again sommore:
Liberalism cannot win by merit. It has no merit.
It is winning because it has no opposition.
Really?
Then why is there a Republican majority in the House, the Senate, and in the Governorships of the country?
And, by the way, the presidency.
You whiners are getting on my last nerve. I'm outta here.
Really?
Then why is there a Republican majority in the House, the Senate, and in the Governorships of the country?
And, by the way, the presidency.
You whiners are getting on my last nerve. I'm outta here.
A Republican Congress and President certainly have nothing to do with Conservatism in the year 2017.
The post by Invar is the very definition of why we are losing this war with the Left. He'd rather disparage Republicans and Conservatives that he finds "impure",
than actually come together and fight the Left.
He wants to kill the apostate whilst the barbarian horde bursts through the city gates to kill everyone. Many of us here may not meet your purity test, Invar, but by any classical definition we are every bit the conservative you deem yourself...in many senses, moreso.
And while our disagreements with you are as principle based and adamant as your own
but you've let doctrinal fanaticism lead you into behavior that assures the Left will win this battle for the future.
I sincerely and honestly beseech you to aim your fire outside the walls, rather than at the soldiers next to you who you deem imperfect.
@INVAR
I follow your posts and urge you to write more as they are well received by thinking people on this forum. 888high58888
The post by Invar is the very definition of why we are losing this war with the Left.
He'd rather disparage Republicans and Conservatives that he finds "impure", than actually come together and fight the Left.
He wants to kill the apostate whilst the barbarian horde bursts through the city gates to kill everyone.
Many of us here may not meet your purity test, Invar, but by any classical definition we are every bit the conservative you deem yourself...in many senses, moreso...
I sincerely and honestly beseech you to aim your fire outside the walls, rather than at the soldiers next to you who you deem imperfect.
Really?
Then why is there a Republican majority in the House, the Senate, and in the Governorships of the country?
And, by the way, the presidency.
You whiners are getting on my last nerve. I'm outta here.
Really?
Then why is there a Republican majority in the House, the Senate, and in the Governorships of the country?
And, by the way, the presidency.
You need to understand that the vast majority of voters say the current version of Conservatism has nothing to do with the year 2017.
American could use your help.
You need to understand that the vast majority of voters say the current version of Conservatism has nothing to do with the year 2017.
Your heart's in the right place @RoosGirl .... but your vision is still looking in the rear view mirror toward 1980.
I do pray you turn around and see where you actually are. American could use your help.
I don't need to scrape Trump off my shoe. I avoided stepping in that steaming pile in the first place.
When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
says the resident liberal I would rather have folks like @roamer_1 and @INVAR in the trenches with me. I know where they stand.
Might does not make right.
Yes it most certainly could. Which requires specifically that @RoosGirl does not 'turn around'
I washed my hands of Trump long ago, sad thing is the actual election may prove to be the easiest part of Trump's reign. This idiot's aim seems so off that he shoots himself in the foot more than at his so called enemy. Now nobody can tell who his enemy really is, because the budget he signed gave the democrats everything they basically wanted and fulfilled little to nothing of his campaign pledges. I don't think The Big Don had a moral compass to direct him beyond getting elected. His days in office seem like a fish just pulled out of the water left on the bank to flop around. It is actually embarrassing to watch.
Now things are crumbling the usually people pop up to scream for the rest of us to support this 5th grade stammering buffoon. This is your idiot, you deal with him.
No worries. I 100% know what my job is right now; teaching my 5 year old how to live in a world full of people who will compromise on anything.
When will Conservatives dump the Republican Party is my question.
#NeverRepublican
I know the difference between right and wrong. You go on ahead without me.
@INVAR
I follow your posts and urge you to write more as they are well received by thinking people on this forum. 888high58888
So do I @RoosGirl ... so please don't continue to think you own that. And, if I need to go ahead and help America without you, I will continue to do so. Count on it.
Be well. :seeya:
Folks like INVAR and roamer are worthless politically.
They may as well be in league with those seeking to upend the election.
And people wonder why I am always referencing 1790's France for what our near-term future will look like.
This may sound like hyperbole, but we are now openly at war with the Left. They are seeking to override a fair and constitutional election because they did not like the outcome. They are using tactics from street brawling, general rioting, disruption of political rallies, radicalization of students on college campuses, and the domination of the 4th estate for purposes of propaganda and disinformation. They are willing to sacrifice the constitution, democracy, and all of the established rules of our civil society in pursuit of seizing back power. Its a familiar determination, one that cost 100's of millions of lives in the 20th century, but it is rearing in its head now right in front of us...threatening the very fabric of the United States.Fine. Y'all come back, now, y'heah?
If conservatives and Republicans cannot rally together now, we are going to lose this fight and this country...and we will not win it back in our lifetimes. Remember, tyranny and oppression arise from the Left and are shrouded in self-attributed good intentions married to self delusion. We are approaching that moment where the country is going to take a paradigm shift in one direction or another...we will move sharply Left, or we will fight back this tide and hold to the constitution.
I'm not prone to apocalyptic political predictions and find myself almost stunned by the situation we are crashing into...we must oppose this with every non-violent means at our disposal. And I'll be honest, I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
It is a caution.
In the same breath of time, two things were lifted up before the eyes of Man.
One, the French declaration of the Rights of Men.
The other, the United States Declaration of Independence.
I wonder which most Americans would be more comfortable with today?
That answer is made manifest each and every day, sometimes right here on this board.
DeToqueville spent a lot of time here in the States trying to figure out how liberty managed to flourish in our society while his devolved into a bloodbath and dictatorship.
His answer is enlightening to those who understood his summations, and now soundly discarded by those who prefer what liberties come from Natural Law sans any Creator and Divine Author of that Law.
@INVARI agree!
I follow your posts and urge you to write more as they are well received by thinking people on this forum. 888high58888
I agree!
Really?Gee, maybe you are right. The liberals are winning.
Then why is there a Republican majority in the House, the Senate, and in the Governorships of the country?
And, by the way, the presidency.
You whiners are getting on my last nerve. I'm outta here.
When Will Republicans Dump Trump?Iowa. That's when I'd seen enough.
I'm not prone to apocalyptic political predictions and find myself almost stunned by the situation we are crashing into...we must oppose this with every non-violent means at our disposal. And I'll be honest, I'm not optimistic that we can unify sufficiently to beat a Left that is now moving in almost complete concert.
I don't need to scrape Trump off my shoe. I avoided stepping in that steaming pile in the first place.
Given where this culture now sits, that is probably the one and only statement I will ever agree with you on.
Because politically - our views and mindsets are irrelevant. So rejoice - you win.
And people wonder why I am always referencing 1790's France for what our near-term future will look like.
Iowa. That's when I'd seen enough.
My concerns from then have proven justified.
And, if I need to go ahead and help America without you, I will continue to do so. Count on it.If you think posting fawning propaganda and belittling those who don't fall for it is helping America, well, let's just say you're wrong.
If you think posting fawning propaganda and belittling those who don't fall for it is helping America, well, let's just say you're wrong.:thumbsup:
If you think posting fawning propaganda and belittling those who don't fall for it is helping America, well, let's just say you're wrong.:amen:
Right... Government run health care is real "conservative"... Nowhere in the constitution is there authorization of the federal government running health insurance. Zip. Where in the constitution is the allowance of the executive branch to pick which laws it is going to enforce? Like looking the other way for the "good" illegal aliens but getting rid of the "bad" ones? The list is long of such things. It is lawless.
And how many conservatives here on this site give a crap what consenting adults do in their homes? Not many. Your "fundamentalism" claims are false. The actual conservatives on this site are for smaller government and liberty.
I'm still trying to figure out why we are debating an article written by Politico as if it's worthy of discussionWe peel the layers back, wherever its from. If we don't address what the opposition is saying, who will?
We peel the layers back, wherever its from. If we don't address what the opposition is saying, who will?
We peel the layers back, wherever its from. If we don't address what the opposition is saying, who will?
Amen to that. It's also a bad move for them not to support him, at least publicly. You named four people we should dump.... there are more.. How do they keep getting elected???
"We" nothing.
The GOP is not in open warfare with the Left, they are too busy placating and accommodating them and adopting the Left's Agenda as their own with a few modifications. The Left is certainly 'at war' with everyone they perceive to be in opposition to them. The 'Right'? Not so much.
We are already too divided among core issues and values to pose any kind of unified opposition and the majority of the population will side with the Left rather than those who want smaller government.
Yep. Primary challengers have to defeat the whole machine. The alternative is to vote Democrat and take a chance that's not going to cost the farm, just to clear the way for a fresh GOP face next time. Then the Dem is running as an incumbent.
The power of incumbency. This is why we need term limits. Once in the system, it's too difficult to pry them out again.
The nation would be better served by "churn."
Trump is, sad to say, an amateur who is being ground into dust by the professionals.
The business of politics and the media's coverage of it requires adherence to an accepted protocol of behavior, and Trump's defying it and the pros are lowering the boom on him.
Trump has to appeal to the people. He is being confronted by a slow-motion coup, and he has to simultaneously be Presidential and attack the motivations of his adversaries. He needs to fight this civil war, for that is what this is, or step aside.
Yep. Primary challengers have to defeat the whole machine. The alternative is to vote Democrat and take a chance that's not going to cost the farm, just to clear the way for a fresh GOP face next time. Then the Dem is running as an incumbent.
Seems the 'reports from the Capitol' always pick up come election time: 'soft' campaigning on our dime.
That part is all correct except for the "step aside" part. That is the worst thing he can do. He needs to make it clear to his opponents that he will fight them till the bitter end, and he will not resign no matter what they do.
Any hint otherwise will convince them that they just need to apply more pressure.
Term limits will cause turnover in the ranks, but I'm not sure that won't just encourage them to loot harder because their days are numbered.
The problem is systemic. Therefore the only solution is to modify the system so as to alleviate the problem.
Term Limits.
:wtf!:
:wtf!:
It's a civil war, folks.
This crapwouldshould come to an end...lickity split.
It's a good GD thing Cankles isn't in the Oval Office.
The 2nd Amendment would be history right now.
So to celebrate the second amendment being intact, you applaud a call to take the first amendment out back and shoot it.
Smooth.
It's past time to emulate the Islamic Jihadists....
I am very late to this party but I find this to be nothing more than just another politico hit job. Trying to influence opinions instead of reporting news.
So @mystery-ak , you approve of your esteemed member saying stuff like this?
No..I don't approve of that statement...what do you want me to do ban him over it?
So to celebrate the second amendment being intact, you applaud a call to take the first amendment out back and shoot it.
Smooth.
No..I don't approve of that statement...what do you want me to do ban him over it?
Really? Slick. I would never applaud dismantling the Constitution, nor did I say anything to that affect. You did. Reality is the 2nd Amendment is the amendment upon which all our other rights/amendments hang; without it, we will have none.
Good to see everyone getting along for a change. It has been tiresome lately that every thread breaks out in a nasty fight.
This thread is just tangible proof that we all can just along sometimes without the bitterness and anger. I hope this keeps up.
It's a civil war, folks.
So to celebrate the second amendment being intact, you applaud a call to take the first amendment out back and shoot it.
Smooth.
No it's not.
It's prepping the ground for our unique version of Robespierre's Terror.
I'm afraid that comment is probably wasted among most here and a few likely think its a great idea.
I'll "dump Trump" when he's given me reason to dump him by my standards, not by the comically-unfair standards of #NeverTrump.
Right, but calling for violence against reporters is just fine and dandy with you?
I'll "dump Trump" when he's given me reason to dump him by my standards, not by the comically-unfair standards of #NeverTrump.:amen:
No....why say that you know it's not true....I have privately asked for that to be edited...if it is not I will do it!
I'll "dump Trump" when he's given me reason to dump him by my standards, not by the comically-unfair standards of #NeverTrump.What comically unfair standards are those? Better yet, what are yours? Just curious where you're coming from. The IFF isn't working.
I'm afraid that comment is probably wasted among most here and a few likely think its a great idea.@INVAR @Cripplecreek Not only not wasted, but what I have been predicting, too. Less like 1776, more like "the Terror". About all folks learn from history is that folks don't generally learn from history...
@INVAR @Cripplecreek Not only not wasted, but what I have been predicting, too. Less like 1776, more like "the Terror". About all folks learn from history is that folks don't generally learn from history...
Meanwhile, people who DO get History are doomed to be sucked down with the fools. People really DO seem to think Robespierre is a good idea.Angry people do stupid things.
I agree with your stated position and I would suggest you leave the comment as it was written unless the author himself chooses to edit it.
He was not using profanity against a member. He was advocating an act we may be horrified with the implications of - but he has every right to opine on it, and we retain every right to point out what kind of mindset that comes from.
Part of the problem is that it quickly becomes worse. When such comments began to be allowed at TOS it wasn't long before a comment that "Trump's wall needs to be long enough for his blindfolded enemies to stand with their backs to it" went unchallenged and soon similar comments were being made with glee.
I remember a time when I got a time out from TOS for quoting the line from "Full metal jacket" about shooting women and children in a thread about video games and movies. It bothered me at first but I came to realize that it reflected poorly on the site and its other users so I didn't worry about it and took more care.
Angry people do stupid things.
They were angry and looking for someone to blame.
They're still angry, and looking for someone (else) to blame.
It is what happens when people will not own, dissect, and learn from their own failures.
Robespierre may have even thought it was a good idea, until he was looking into the basket.
Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose...
What comically unfair standards are those? Better yet, what are yours? Just curious where you're coming from. The IFF isn't working.
He thought it was a GREAT idea until then. I'm sure he was shocked when they came for him. People like that are really hot on knocking off everybody else, in his case he thought wasting half the population of France was a necessary tactic.
To me Robespierre type stuff is the end-game for populism. Always has been, always will be. It's just the natural way it progresses.
He thought it was a GREAT idea until then. I'm sure he was shocked when they came for him. People like that are really hot on knocking off everybody else, in his case he thought wasting half the population of France was a necessary tactic.
That's why we must never forget the lessons that particular Frenchman taught us. Going around calling for everybody's head always ends up with the caller losing his head. Unfortunately, the killing doesn't end there, but goes on for a while after until somebody realizes it's a bad idea.
Looks to me like a call for horrible violence (beheadings, etc.). Your choice. :shrug:
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
The keyboard warriors who call for violence---like this, and another post yesterday advocating punching journalists in the mouth---will never do anything but call for it. They'll hope someone else takes action so they can watch from their couches.
Well, we could start by not intentionally interpreting everything he says in the most negative way possible to make him look as bad as possible.
For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.
How did the media and #NeverTrumps interpret this? As Donald Trump being ignorant on the subject. They took his question on why was there a Civil War, and framed it as Trump not knowing the root causes behind the war, rather than the rhetorical, philosophical question it clearly was.
The media has flipped the principle of charity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) on its head with Trump. A good start to being fair would be, you know, not doing that.
Well, we could start by not intentionally interpreting everything he says in the most negative way possible to make him look as bad as possible.I was curious. We don't need to interpret everything he says as the worst possible message, the MSM will do that for us. Still, he does step in it from time to time. While that sort of controversy played well for him in the election cycle dominating airtime and other media, it really gets in the way of governing. The media who had the issues of Newsweek all printed and distributed showing President Hillary on the cover were gobsmacked when she lost (to my immense and intense pleasure), but have recovered and will go into full court press against Trump. It fits their delusions, and I'm just waiting for the psychotic break.
For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.
How did the media and #NeverTrumps interpret this? As Donald Trump being ignorant on the subject. They took his question on why was there a Civil War, and framed it as Trump not knowing the root causes behind the war, rather than the rhetorical, philosophical question it clearly was.
The media has flipped the principle of charity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) on its head with Trump. A good start to being fair would be, you know, not doing that.
Well, we could start by not intentionally interpreting everything he says in the most negative way possible to make him look as bad as possible.
For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.
How did the media and #NeverTrumps interpret this? As Donald Trump being ignorant on the subject. They took his question on why was there a Civil War, and framed it as Trump not knowing the root causes behind the war, rather than the rhetorical, philosophical question it clearly was.
The media has flipped the principle of charity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) on its head with Trump. A good start to being fair would be, you know, not doing that.
Look at what using the mere word "impeachment" has done for the market today. DOW down 250....this might get ugly fast.
There have been Rats demanding Impeachment since before he was inaugurated. I was watching the market open before I came in to work (I'm West Coast), and the big dive came when Ryan had a press conference to show his true stripes about Trump's tax cut plan.
For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.
Jackson's forced march of the civilized Indian tribes of the 1830's grants him no moral authority to say anything of consequence.
Next.....
Jackson's forced march of the civilized Indian tribes of the 1830's grants him no moral authority to say anything of consequence.
And I say this even as he is husband of my great great great great aunt.
Next.....
Part of the problem is that it quickly becomes worse. When such comments began to be allowed at TOS it wasn't long before a comment that "Trump's wall needs to be long enough for his blindfolded enemies to stand with their backs to it" went unchallenged and soon similar comments were being made with glee.
Trump's philosophical depth runs to about "So do you suppose those or real or silicone?"
Fair point and the fact that unchallenged statements become permissible behavior is indeed a risk. But the owner will have to make that call.
I'm proceeding from the selfish viewpoint that such a comment serves as quotable ammunition when I am called to task for pointing out that there are Trump supporters willing to kill for Trump, or that the mindset of the Trump militant is not any different than mobs who turned their societies into tyrannical bloodbaths.
It's a selfish viewpoint, indeed. And totally wrong.
We have serious stuff going on in the country and it's time you, and others who agree with you, examine your priorities.
How long are you going to let your Trump Hate control your viewpoint on every issue? You are as bad as those you are criticizing.
It's a selfish viewpoint, indeed. And totally wrong.Some people have just decided that their priority is to bitter, hateful old farts. They are actually worse than those they are criticizing. This is about them being right, not what is right for the country. **nononono*
We have serious stuff going on in the country and it's time you, and others who agree with you, examine your priorities.
How long are you going to let your Trump Hate control your viewpoint on every issue? You are as bad as those you are criticizing.
.
Trump is what he is. I'm more fascinated by watching the methods of True Believers get applied to Trump, because that is in actuality a larger clear and present danger to liberty than by anything Trump himself can do.
Look lady, our priorities are based on promoting and defending our principles - not playing Apologetics for an egomaniac with his foot so far up his maw and so far out of his depth it is frightening.
Like liberals, you constantly define every single disagreement or criticism of Trump's statements and behaviors as 'hate'. I do not hate Trump, nor do I despise him as much as I do Obama or the Clintons. I'm indifferent to him, and do not expect much in terms of promoting Conservative principles from a lifelong NYC Liberal Democrat.
Trump is what he is. I'm more fascinated by watching the methods of True Believers get applied to Trump, because that is in actuality a larger clear and present danger to liberty than by anything Trump himself can do.
Some people have just decided that their priority is to bitter, hateful old farts. They are actually worse than those they are criticizing. This is about them being right, not what is right for the country. **nononono*
n.
That's the side you want to join???
Look at what using the mere word "impeachment" has done for the market today. DOW down 250....this might get ugly fast.It is time for party "leaders" like Ryan, McConnell McCain, Cruz etc. to speak out to show us all how much they are committed to the agenda.
Very funny, Cripplecreek.
You will probably be happy to know that Elijah Cummings just made a statement to the effect that "we cannot ignore these scandals any longer."
Elijah Cummings !!!
We are at war, sweetie. Choose sides wisely.
Not at all. Just tell Trump to get the hell out, and let Pence govern.If you think for one second that the Rats are going to let Pence govern any more than they are letting Trump govern, than you are sadly delusional. **nononono*
If you think for one second that the Rats are going to let Pence govern any more than they are letting Trump govern, than you are sadly delusional. **nononono*
Your frenetic post just proved my point. You are more interested in hoping that True Believers, as you call them, get disillusioned and punished than you are in anything substantive happening to the country.
But most of us are more interested in what happens to the country. You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump. That's what it's all about... proving yourself right.
Elijah Cummings just said on TV that "we can't ignore these scandals any longer."
Elijah ... who sat calmly through the Obama administration and the Hillary campaign.
That's the side you want to join???
Everyone has an opinion on the Civil War and Trump is entitled to his.There's just one problem with that last statement. We actually want him to do a good job. We love America. Sometimes criticism is 'constructive'--as in 'here's what was wrong, quit it'.
We need to stop focusing on these minor slip ups. We are, in effect, joining the vast left wing conspiracy by doing so.
Your frenetic post just proved my point. You are more interested in hoping that True Believers, as you call them, get disillusioned and punished than you are in anything substantive happening to the country.M'am, right is right and wrong is wrong, and that doesn't change because the guy you like is the one screwing up.
Most reasonable people here are well aware that Trump is as far from perfect as a person could be.
But most of us are more interested in what happens to the country. You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump. That's what it's all about... proving yourself right.
Well, okay. You are right.
Elijah Cummings just said on TV that "we can't ignore these scandals any longer."
Elijah ... who sat calmly through the Obama administration and the Hillary campaign.
That's the side you want to join???
I used to think Citizens United was a good call, but these days I'm having my doubts.Yes. All of this, especially the last.
It may be on a sound foundation (donating money qualifies as 1st Amendment protected Political Speech) but the best little whorehouse in DC has made itself so totally beholden to K Street I doubt most of Congress is even capable of writing a law themselves.
Which kind of explains why we keep getting Executive Orders Left and Right.
We've let the rascals get away with it for so long the will of the voters has become irrelevant to Congress.
Congressional Whores have turned us into a term limited monarchy.
No matter what any President wants done, they just take the money and flip him off.
As for Trump, he's doing a fine job of painting himself into one corner after another with his 'Art of the Deal' crap.
He needs a course in Public Speaking to learn how to make his case in televised addresses rather than tweets to understand how Reagan worked the room.
Firing Priebus as WH COS is a must if we want Trump to stop cutting his sell out deals.
That's the side you want to join???
This demanding everybody choose sides is what led us to where we have a child in office today. "You're either on my side or you're the enemy" is fine for spotting Islamist terrorists and their enablers, but a very poor governing philosophy in the US.
It is time for party "leaders" like Ryan, McConnell McCain, Cruz etc. to speak out to show us all how much they are committed to the agenda.I doubt McCain will, he's still pee-ohed at not getting 'his turn' and votes with the Liberals. McConnell, Ryan, maybe sometimes, Cruz will support what he thinks is right, and the two were at 80% or better on issues in the campaign, once you got past the smear crap.
Or perhaps they expect Trump to get completely pissed off, resign and start over with Pence, weakened like Gerald Ford.
This demanding everybody choose sides is what led us to where we have a child in office today. "You're either on my side or you're the enemy" is fine for spotting Islamist terrorists and their enablers, but a very poor governing philosophy in the US.Great post
Yep. I too have problems with that aspect of Trump supporters. :tongue2:
Bitter, hateful old farts?
I resent that. I am not old.
This demanding everybody choose sides is what led us to where we have a child in office today. "You're either on my side or you're the enemy" is fine for spotting Islamist terrorists and their enablers, but a very poor governing philosophy in the US.
Great post
I am astonished that the "if you're not supporting Trump then you're supporting Hillary" nonsense is still alive and well here. Really. Astonished.
And the same person suggests that Ted Cruz be loud about what Congress is doing to push aside the Dem agenda?! Riiiight! A goldfish has a memory long enough to remember that the Trump supporters were telling Ted to sit down and shut up because he lost.
@Emjay
And the Senate and Congress should be speaking up to defend Trump against unfounded and unproven and libelous assertions by the press.
There is a third side that is neither for Trump nor against him.That gets back to upholding, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States.
He was elected. The establishment - political community, media, bureaucracy - is attempting to reverse that election under the pretense of some grotesque double standard of justice. There is no evidence to speak of yet they're already talking about impeachment.
Unless some real law breaking or otherwise truly impeachable offense is revealed then opposing the establishment's effort to reverse the results of the past election does not equate to defending Trump simply because he's "our guy". It would be a catastrophe if they were to succeed.
You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump.
That's probably where most of the leaks are coming from.
No....why say that you know it's not true....I have privately asked for that to be edited...if it is not I will do it!
That gets back to upholding, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States.
Some people are apparently not for that, whether they are Liberals, or calling for a dictator to reverse the policies and laws the liberals passed, or people caught up in some cult of adulation who think they have found a political messiah to heal all ills with a wave of the hand.
That's probably where most of the leaks are coming from.
This quote was about emulating jihadists though... that's crazy town IMO. Killing women, children, beheading, etc. etc.
I guess people are ok with that kind of talk at this site?
Good point. But who's leaking to Congress? I'd like to follow that string back to the originators.
Or...maybe they just know you're FOS.
Please show us the quote where I am for "Killing women, children, beheading, etc. etc."
There is a third side that is neither for Trump nor against him.
He was elected. The establishment - political community, media, bureaucracy - is attempting to reverse that election under the pretense of some grotesque double standard of justice. There is no evidence to speak of yet they're already talking about impeachment.
Unless some real law breaking or otherwise truly impeachable offense is revealed then opposing the establishment's effort to reverse the results of the past election does not equate to defending Trump simply because he's "our guy". It would be a catastrophe if they were to succeed.
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
The keyboard warriors who call for violence---like this, and another post yesterday advocating punching journalists in the mouth---will never do anything but call for it. They'll hope someone else takes action so they can watch from their couches.
Gee...how else is one supposed to take a call to "emulate the jihadists"?
Terrific post @skeeter
You're the one who self-professes to be a big brain round here.....you figure it out.
I'm still trying to figure out why we are debating an article written by Politico as if it's worthy of discussion
The problem is systemic. Therefore the only solution is to modify the system so as to alleviate the problem.
Term Limits.
@Jarhead
:amen: Brother! :amen:
He thought it was a GREAT idea until then. I'm sure he was shocked when they came for him. People like that are really hot on knocking off everybody else, in his case he thought wasting half the population of France was a necessary tactic.
@INVAR and roamer_1 I'd take it as a compliment when a Liberal calls you politically worthless.
The Trumpian faction also has to realize that there are some ultra-conservatives like myself, who have taken self-pledges to never ever support a liberal under any circumstance. This Trojan horse is not a conservative. He only deserves our contempt.
@Cyber Liberty
Sort of like all those folks who think we should welcome all those Muslim refugees in the hope that they will kill us last isn't it?
Whoooooa there cowboy. Not saying we would get anything less obstructionist from the dims, but at least all the DJT clown show distraction would be cleared.
I'm simply saying that in some cases, probably most on this site, defending Trump no more equates to mindlessly defending a political messiah than opposing him equals support for Hillary.When he is right he is right, when he is wrong, he is wrong.
@catfish1957
You and I agree on most everything but I part company with you if you are suggesting that we should just let the media have it's way with Trump! NO WAY in hell will I go for that! Not ever!
Terrific post @skeeter
There is a third side that is neither for Trump nor against him.
He was elected. The establishment - political community, media, bureaucracy - is attempting to reverse that election under the pretense of some grotesque double standard of justice. There is no evidence to speak of yet they're already talking about impeachment.
Unless some real law breaking or otherwise truly impeachable offense is revealed then opposing the establishment's effort to reverse the results of the past election does not equate to defending Trump simply because he's "our guy". It would be a catastrophe if they were to succeed.
When he is right he is right, when he is wrong, he is wrong.
It's only the fine points of whether he is right or wrong that seem to be at issue for most.
It is those who will admit no wrong and automatically whip out the "hater" stick to beat people with who have a real problem.
When he is right he is right, when he is wrong, he is wrong.That's funny, I think it's the people who refuse to admit that everything he does isn't wrong or illegal are the ones who have a real problem. :shrug: Those people deserve the "hater" label.
It's only the fine points of whether he is right or wrong that seem to be at issue for most.
It is those who will admit no wrong and automatically whip out the "hater" stick to beat people with who have a real problem.
Gee...how else is one supposed to take a call to "emulate the jihadists"?Maybe he just likes car bombs in markets and IEDs.
@Cyber Liberty
Sort of like all those folks who think we should welcome all those Muslim refugees in the hope that they will kill us last isn't it?
That's funny, I think it's the people who refuse to admit that everything he does isn't wrong or illegal are the ones who have a real problem. :shrug: Those people deserve the "hater" label.I think if you look around this site with any scintilla of fairness, you won't find anyone like that. What I have seen is how often those who aren't fans of Trump are ignored when they say he did right, but the second they call him on something wrong are labelled "haters" or some such nonsense.
This demanding everybody choose sides is what led us to where we have a child in office today. "You're either on my side or you're the enemy" is fine for spotting Islamist terrorists and their enablers, but a very poor governing philosophy in the US.
I know I'm probably a bad person but I just don't and cannot like Muslims.
And the media would turn up the heat X100 if not 1000!
I think if you look around this site with any scintilla of fairness, you won't find anyone like that. What I have seen is how often those who aren't fans of Trump are ignored when they say he did right, but the second they call him on something wrong are labelled "haters" or some such nonsense.
I think Pence would have a far better shot at unified action. At actually creating a working coalition. He is respected by the Tea Party (even though everyone realizes he needs a backbone), and the moderates will work with him... And he didn't spend a year and a half pissing off absolutely everyone.
And his impeccable character, long record, and mundane lifestyle would leave the press with little traction.
If there is a way forward that will really get things done, it is probably more though Pence than Trump.
You know what? The people you describe who "automatically whip out the "hater" stick to beat people with are so rare on this forum they are in danger of becoming extinct.For a second I thought y'all were lobbying for 'endangered species' status.
Maybe the Trump haters just like to post more or have more time or love the sound of their own keyboards more .... I don't know, but I see far more posts from people who automatically pull out the Hate Trump stick than I see defenders of Trump.
A little simplistic maybe. The fact is ... there are two Basic sides with some nuances on both sides.
Yes, we chose a side when electing the person you call a child. Of course we did.
There were only two sides. One was unacceptable.
I think Pence would have a far better shot at unified action. At actually creating a working coalition. He is respected by the Tea Party (even though everyone realizes he needs a backbone), and the moderates will work with him... And he didn't spend a year and a half pissing off absolutely everyone.
And his impeccable character, long record, and mundane lifestyle would leave the press with little traction.
If there is a way forward that will really get things done, it is probably more though Pence than Trump.
Nope! Yet another scalp on there belt and there would be no stopping them!
You know what? The people you describe who "automatically whip out the "hater" stick to beat people with are so rare on this forum they are in danger of becoming extinct.
Maybe the Trump haters just like to post more or have more time or love the sound of their own keyboards more .... I don't know, but I see far more posts from people who automatically pull out the Hate Trump stick than I see defenders of Trump.
I'm with you on that. The "Hate Pence" drumbeat would start before he even got his hand on the Bible.
Nope! Yet another scalp on there belt and there would be no stopping them!As a practical matter, while Pence might have less stored enmity out there, you are correct. Any giving ground to the Dems would be seen not only as a sign of weakness, but would encourage them in their lawless rants across the country. Then things would get really ugly, because people would not stand for that.
A little simplistic maybe. The fact is ... there are two Basic sides with some nuances on both sides.
Yes, we chose a side when electing the person you call a child. Of course we did.
There were only two sides. One was unacceptable.
Of course. And they would probably even try to hire some bimbos to claim (falsely, of course) that they were abused in some way by Pence. It's a pattern of abuse that the left knows only too well how to inflict upon anyone that isn't on their plantation.
With FR down our resident Trumpsters are getting added reinforcements and I am glad, they needed some fresh blood. Welcome to all you newbies.
As a practical matter, while Pence might have less stored enmity out there, you are correct. Any giving ground to the Dems would be seen not only as a sign of weakness, but would encourage them in their lawless rants across the country. Then things would get really ugly, because people would not stand for that.
Nope! Yet another scalp on there belt and there would be no stopping them!
The illusion you are operating under is that there are two sides, represented in Democrat and Republican... There are not. Just two feet of the same giant, shuffling toward Gomorrah.
The illusion you are operating under is that there are two sides, represented in Democrat and Republican... There are not. Just two feet of the same giant, shuffling toward Gomorrah.
But not by impeachment. That would leave a scar on our party that would never heal.
People WILL put up with it if they think it is just. That's why the commie media has been such a powerful tool for the Rats.
I would disagree. I think the rally on the Conservative side would be significant.
It's just that the anti-Trumpers seem to be more prolific posters .... at least lately...lol. They've had a lot of ammo and help from the rad left (might explain it).
People WILL put up with it if theythinkare made to believe it is just. That's why the commie media has been such a powerful tool for the Rats.
The media is GREAT at doing that!
It just highlights the ugly truth that Americans in general today are become an uneducated, ignorant lot of fools easily beguiled and swayed into whatever they are told to think, believe and act on.
The media only has such power because Americans no longer think for themselves and follow the emoting herds into dependency.
@Cyber Liberty
A minor correction if I may:
People WILL put up with it if theythinkare made to believe it is just. That's why the commie media has been such a powerful tool for the Rats.
The media is GREAT at doing that!
I think if you look around this site with any scintilla of fairness, you won't find anyone like that. What I have seen is how often those who aren't fans of Trump are ignored when they say he did right, but the second they call him on something wrong are labelled "haters" or some such nonsense.
I think it's safe to say there are three or four posters for whom everything trump does is wrong, just as there are three or four for whom everything he does is right.
The difference I have observed is the former group generally take their shots at trump, while the latter group generally take their shots at just about anyone who criticizes trump (while also throwing around the "hater" label -- really?).
OK! I can live with the fact that you disagree with me. Hope you can as well because I strongly disagree with that.
I think it's safe to say there are three or four posters for whom everything trump does is wrong, just as there are three or four for whom everything he does is right.
The difference I have observed is the former group generally take their shots at trump, while the latter group generally take their shots at just about anyone who criticizes trump (while also throwing around the "hater" label -- really?).
@Cyber Liberty
A minor correction if I may:
People WILL put up with it if theythinkare made to believe it is just. That's why the commie media has been such a powerful tool for the Rats.
The media is GREAT at doing that!
I think it's safe to say there are three or four posters for whom everything trump does is wrong, just as there are three or four for whom everything he does is right.:beer:
The difference I have observed is the former group generally take their shots at trump, while the latter group generally take their shots at just about anyone who criticizes trump (while also throwing around the "hater" label -- really?).
I think it's safe to say there are three or four posters for whom everything trump does is wrong, just as there are three or four for whom everything he does is right.
The difference I have observed is the former group generally take their shots at trump, while the latter group generally take their shots at just about anyone who criticizes trump (while also throwing around the "hater" label -- really?).
It just highlights the ugly truth that Americans in general today are become an uneducated, ignorant lot of fools easily beguiled and swayed into whatever they are told to think, believe and act on.Once again, a way-over-the-top generalization of the American people which I reject as a pitiful attempt to indict the majority of us.
The media only has such power because Americans no longer think for themselves and follow the emoting herds into dependency.
That's the breaks... And the result of electing a man of low character in the first place.Maybe you should tell that to Pence, since he supported him, agreed to be his VP and I presume voted for him. What does that make him. According to a lot of NTs, that makes him not a conservative. :shrug:
Maybe you should tell that to Pence, since he supported him, agreed to be his VP and I presume voted for him. What does that make him. According to a lot of NTs, that makes him not a conservative. :shrug:
Suggest you clean your lenses.Well, now, if SNAFU wasn't so normal, people would find other things to talk about, ya think? As for "virtually every thread", well, the comments pertain to the subject matter. There have been threads here where Trump doesn't even get brought up, but folks looking for "haters" to hate on might miss those.
Your own words:
"...the former group (which include those "4" who live here 24/7) generally take their shots at trump,"
'They' do this on virtually every thread, many times savagely piling on, ala Lord of the Flies.
That's what calls any decent Trump supporter to speak out and rebuke them in the strongest of terms.
Now.....if you need a safe space, contact the management. :laugh:
Not to me. Albeit that Pence is a few vertebrae short of a full spine, I would happily take that with the character I know him to possess, over the low character of the current occupant, regardless of his brass.
Well, now, if SNAFU wasn't so normal, people would find other things to talk about, ya think? As for "virtually every thread", well, the comments pertain to the subject matter. There have been threads here where Trump doesn't even get brought up, but folks looking for "haters" to hate on might miss those.
To me, what matters is who moves the ball farther down the field, and I can't honestly predict that. One thing I do know is that if Trump is removed for Pence, the leftist press will start the anti-Pence drumbeat the instant it happens, so there's that going for Trump right now.
To me, what matters is who moves the ball farther down the field, and I can't honestly predict that. One thing I do know is that if Trump is removed for Pence, the leftist press will start the anti-Pence drumbeat the instant it happens, so there's that going for Trump right now.
Mike Pence ... to be honest, I had never heard of him till Trump named him his VP...something about the guy I just don't trust. The MSM and the DEMS aren't going to stop. They are in full 'war' mode. They lost. They have nothing left other than their lies, their accusations and a MSM that is willing to spread their b.s.
It doesn't matter. The press is always going to be against a Republican. This is nothing new, or even at any greater volume.
This is true, but Pence would have the added burden of a press dancing on his predecessor's grave holding his severed head. It would make things more difficult under those circumstances, no?
It doesn't matter. The press is always going to be against a Republican. This is nothing new, or even at any greater volume.
But, honestly @roamer_1 how much can we be expected to endure? Some of us, myself included, fought long and hard for a different type of leader to pull this country back to the right direction and at the least break up the deep state.
I am convinced such expectations were sheer folly.
But, honestly @roamer_1 how much can we be expected to endure? Some of us, myself included, fought long and hard for a different type of leader to pull this country back to the right direction and at the least break up the deep state.
I am convinced such expectations were sheer folly. And I'll admit, it is time for President Trump to pack his bags, or we'll pack them for him. It's just enough.
I am inclined to believe they will allow Pence to assume the Presidency. He'll be neutered, but at least we'll hold the office.
I envision a Paul Ryan type, or Paul Ryan himself, selected as VP ... and after muted and sparse gnashing of teeth, the Senate, including the majority of Democrats, will confirm the nominee. It will be hailed as the first act of reconciliation after the disaster of Donald Trump. And this reconciliation will be the hallmark of all legislation.
The nightmare and the turmoil will be over and a sense of normalcy will be returned. Hell, even here friendship and civility will return. Enough with the fight. It's too exhausting.
I don't think so... And really, I don't care. If the reason to hold Trump up is only to prevent the press and the Democrats from having their satisfaction, it means far less to me than the press and the democrats having their way - which they predictably will under a liberal Republican administration.
@roamer_1
(http://img.memecdn.com/its-a-trap_o_100145.jpg)
Too bad, in your folly, that you chose a boorish NY liberal with ties to the mob, and globalism to bear that standard.
I know I am just a back country hick, but around here, while we know putting a fox in the henhouse might change the status in the henhouse, we have the foresight to know that not all changes to the henhouse are desirable.
Congratulations.
(http://img.memecdn.com/its-a-trap_o_100145.jpg)
I don't think so... And really, I don't care. If the reason to hold Trump up is only to prevent the press and the Democrats from having their satisfaction, it means far less to me than the press and the democrats having their way - which they predictably will under a liberal Republican administration.
But, honestly @roamer_1 how much can we be expected to endure? Some of us, myself included, fought long and hard for a different type of leader to pull this country back to the right direction and at the least break up the deep state.
I am convinced such expectations were sheer folly. And I'll admit, it is time for President Trump to pack his bags, or we'll pack them for him. It's just enough.
I am inclined to believe they will allow Pence to assume the Presidency. He'll be neutered, but at least we'll hold the office.
I envision a Paul Ryan type, or Paul Ryan himself, selected as VP ... and after muted and sparse gnashing of teeth, the Senate, including the majority of Democrats, will confirm the nominee. It will be hailed as the first act of reconciliation after the disaster of Donald Trump. And this reconciliation will be the hallmark of all legislation.
The nightmare and the turmoil will be over and a sense of normalcy will be returned. Hell, even here friendship and civility will return. Enough with the fight. It's too exhausting.
That's a kinnard! Share with us please what policies of major consequence is he pushing that is oh so liberal? Believe me I had to get over the butt hurt too when my guy Cruz didn't get in but I'll be honest objectively looking at his agenda and what policies he is pushing are conservative. Problem I see is most still believe it is the primaries akin to Hillary losing the election and not letting it go.
Border security through wall
Cut off immigration
Invest in America
Kill Obamacare
Bring jobs back (I don't agree 100% with his policy on this one)
Cut taxes across the board
Kill regulations crippling business
Openly talk about faith
Kill EPA regs
Open up land reserved by the Feds and place back under State control
So back to my original, what policies above does a liberal support? His agenda is far more conservative than ANY imagined and far more than any that has been pushed since Reagan.
Maybe you should tell that to Pence, since he supported him, agreed to be his VP and I presume voted for him. What does that make him. According to a lot of NTs, that makes him not a conservative. :shrug:
Too bad, in your folly, that you chose a boorish NY liberal with ties to the mob, and globalism to bear that standard.
I know I am just a back country hick, but around here, while we know putting a fox in the henhouse might change the status in the henhouse, we have the foresight to know that not all changes to the henhouse are desirable.
Congratulations.
AGENDA: these are all words so far, Yes he killed some EPA regs then gutted the agency's funds in the budget he signed off on then threw in some bucks for PP to appease Ivanka.
Immigration: get back to me when he cancels obummers EO's on DACA and DAPA.
He's the main reason we didn't get the Repeal of ACA because his deputies (Bannon, Miller, Reince) screwed the process up, Ryan being such a puss and all.
Openly Talks about Faith, I'm still laughing about that one.
Hey we got Gorsuch, Pruitt, Mattis and Perry so I'm kool but the rest are merely Words as @geronl says.
@Right_in_Virginia Has your account been hacked?
That's a kinnard!
Share with us please what policies of major consequence is he pushing that is oh so liberal?
Believe me I had to get over the butt hurt too when my guy Cruz didn't get in
but I'll be honest objectively looking at his agenda and what policies he is pushing are conservative. Problem I see is most still believe it is the primaries akin to Hillary losing the election and not letting it go.
Border security through wall
Cut off immigration
Invest in America
Kill Obamacare
Bring jobs back (I don't agree 100% with his policy on this one)
Cut taxes across the board
Kill regulations crippling business
Openly talk about faith
Kill EPA regs
Open up land reserved by the Feds and place back under State control
So back to my original, what policies above does a liberal support? His agenda is far more conservative than ANY imagined and far more than any that has been pushed since Reagan.
I am, again, humbled by your brilliance ... deeply insightful comments and gratuitous compliment.
I am glad we're finally on the same side. You are a treasure. :beer:
@roamer_1 I really wasn't that shocked or surprised when he made the "Grab them by the..." comment, I already knew he was just a MAN, lacking in Character like some of us, What was equally not shocking was the fact that he said it into a Live Microphone, it confirmed my suspensions of what stupid looks like.
Yah right back atcha... Here's a nice song Just for you.
AGENDA: these are all words so far, Yes he killed some EPA regs then gutted the agency's funds in the budget he signed off on then threw in some bucks for PP to appease Ivanka.
Immigration: get back to me when he cancels obummers EO's on DACA and DAPA.
He's the main reason we didn't get the Repeal of ACA because his deputies (Bannon, Miller, Reince) screwed the process up, Ryan being such a puss and all.
Openly Talks about Faith, I'm still laughing about that one.
Hey we got Gorsuch, Pruitt, Mattis and Perry so I'm kool but the rest are merely Words as @geronl says.
What the hell are you complaining about @corbe ? You're getting what you want served on a silver platter.
Gee, can't you ever be happy?
Mike Pence ... to be honest, I had never heard of him till Trump named him his VP...something about the guy I just don't trust. The MSM and the DEMS aren't going to stop. They are in full 'war' mode. They lost. They have nothing left other than their lies, their accusations and a MSM that is willing to spread their b.s.Actually, he was a primary maybe when Romney was running, maybe even McCain. He did not look that bad, then. At least he wasn't on my "Oh, Hell no!" list. I can see him taking the veep offer, because 'if not now, when?' I don't think he was on the country-clubber's dance card.
It wasn't a budget but a CR. The budget battle is in a couple months.
We didn't get a repeal of ACA because of a feckless GOPe congress.
DACA YOU WONT hear me support this and agree it makes no sense
I believe a lot of your angst shouldn't be pointed at Trump as he sets forth policy and ideas then leads the party to adopt. It is up to Congress to architect the bill and pass it to his desk.
Your issue should primarily be with a worthless do nothing GOPe Congress not entirely with Trump
@skeeter
Post of the day! If not the month! 888high58888
But, honestly @roamer_1 how much can we be expected to endure? Some of us, myself included, fought long and hard for a different type of leader to pull this country back to the right direction and at the least break up the deep state.@Right_in_Virginia
I am convinced such expectations were sheer folly. And I'll admit, it is time for President Trump to pack his bags, or we'll pack them for him. It's just enough.
I am inclined to believe they will allow Pence to assume the Presidency. He'll be neutered, but at least we'll hold the office.
I envision a Paul Ryan type, or Paul Ryan himself, selected as VP ... and after muted and sparse gnashing of teeth, the Senate, including the majority of Democrats, will confirm the nominee. It will be hailed as the first act of reconciliation after the disaster of Donald Trump. And this reconciliation will be the hallmark of all legislation.
The nightmare and the turmoil will be over and a sense of normalcy will be returned. Hell, even here friendship and civility will return. Enough with the fight. It's too exhausting.
Then things would get really ugly, because people would not stand for that.
@Right_in_Virginia
Have you noticed any numbness or tingling in your extremities?
Is your speech slurred?
Are you having trouble with your vision?
Check in the mirror and make sure you have normal full facial mobility on both sides.
If the answer to any of the first three is yes, or the answer to the last question is no, and you have not been consuming excessive amounts of alcohol based refreshments or muscle relaxers, please seek medical attention...you may have had a stroke.
Of course they would.Lawless rants across the country? Rioting? Looting? Nah. Too many people out there now with rifles that will hit from 300+ yards. Looting will be stopped, whether the government wants to or not. All it has to do is get too close to the wrong neighborhood and the neighbors will vote from the rooftops.
What else can they do? The State gets what the State wants. And the state wants a progressive.
I think Pence would have a far better shot at unified action. At actually creating a working coalition. He is respected by the Tea Party (even though everyone realizes he needs a backbone), and the moderates will work with him... And he didn't spend a year and a half pissing off absolutely everyone.
And his impeccable character, long record, and mundane lifestyle would leave the press with little traction.
If there is a way forward that will really get things done, it is probably more though Pence than Trump.
@beandog
Do you think Pence is a man without ambition? He's a politician, after all.
I think you make a very good point.
On the things he can do, he's done a decent job. He hasn't done everything he said he'd do (DAY ONE), and he's reversed himself on some (didn't see that coming), but all in all it seems to be he's done a goof bit to a lot more good than harm.
And then there's Congress. POTUS can insipire/threaten/bribe/beg, but it's up to the Congress to send him bills to sign. They have no reason to care one bit about POTUS's agenda. They write the bills. What conservative bills has trump vetoed?
So is Chris Christie but his lifes ambition is that next 5AM donut run.
He did threaten to "primary" conservatives - and no one else.
He did threaten to "primary" conservatives - and no one else.
I take it you meant 'canard', otherwise plz define.Dang.....that was quite well said. ^-^
all of them, in the end.
Not a matter of butthurt in the least. It amazes me how often y'all accuse it of me.
I am against Trump because I will not (ever) consciously associate myself with a man of deprecable character.
I am against Trump because he is a liberal, and has always been a liberal. His thinking is liberal, his family is liberal, and all that will not change, even though you might hope for the 'Road to Damascus' conversion he proclaims.
Precisely why I am no longer a Republican. I am not impressed with the idea that I must fall in line behind the 'Won'. I find it a deplorable trait. I will ever follow those of merit, or I will lead. But I do not salute the brass for the brass's sake.
Talking points, subject to change... And changing already.
His agenda is bullsh*t meant to dance you down the garden path.
What possible reason would one have for believing a man who literally cannot prevent himself from lying for ten minutes? He lies like a rug, and yet you believe him.
@Right_in_VirginiaLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... you owe me a new monitor! ....LOLOLOLOL @Smokin Joe
Have you noticed any numbness or tingling in your extremities?
Is your speech slurred?
Are you having trouble with your vision?
Check in the mirror and make sure you have normal full facial mobility on both sides.
If the answer to any of the first three is yes, or the answer to the last question is no, and you have not been consuming excessive amounts of alcohol based refreshments or muscle relaxers, please seek medical attention...you may have had a stroke.
But, honestly @roamer_1 how much can we be expected to endure? Some of us, myself included, fought long and hard for a different type of leader to pull this country back to the right direction and at the least break up the deep state.
I am convinced such expectations were sheer folly. And I'll admit, it is time for President Trump to pack his bags, or we'll pack them for him. It's just enough.
I am inclined to believe they will allow Pence to assume the Presidency. He'll be neutered, but at least we'll hold the office.
I envision a Paul Ryan type, or Paul Ryan himself, selected as VP ... and after muted and sparse gnashing of teeth, the Senate, including the majority of Democrats, will confirm the nominee. It will be hailed as the first act of reconciliation after the disaster of Donald Trump. And this reconciliation will be the hallmark of all legislation.
The nightmare and the turmoil will be over and a sense of normalcy will be returned. Hell, even here friendship and civility will return. Enough with the fight. It's too exhausting.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... you owe me a new monitor! ....LOLOLOLOL @Smokin Joe
When will Republicans embrace Conservatism?
The possibility of me having a stroke makes you laugh @mrpotatohead ?Not at all.... His sarcasm has me laughing. Obviously it was a joke. Lighten up........
You've given up far too easy. The sense of normalcy you speak of is the fall of this country under a mountain of unfunded liabilities 200+ trillion dollars, larger growth of centralized government further removing decisions from the states to the Feds, full invasion of illegals with the amnesty party, larger influence pushed by lobbiests to the GOP and their money masters, continued erosions of our freedoms from socialist liberals with no fight from spineless feckless repukelicans and ultimately a totalitarian state led by marxists.
Sorry but Trump is barely 3 months in and we want to concede? How about fighting against the very people who are at the center of this? Our spineless GOPe.
@beandogI thought all the "true" conservatives wanted a man of character, not a man of political ambition. How can you trust someone who does things just for political ambition, not because it's the right thing to do. So what you're telling me is Pence is know better than any other politician. :shrug:
Do you think Pence is a man without ambition? He's a politician, after all.
Thank goodness that Trump is the man he is. For all his negative qualities, he does have total confidence in himself. We won't see any of this namby pamby 'I'm tired' and 'I give up' from him.
That's really the $64,000 question. But as @Right_in_Virginia informs us, conservatism is unelectable. Taking that nugget of wisdom to its logical conclusion, we should just go ahead and come to terms with the fact that our noble experiment in representative self-governance is circling the drain in ever tightening spirals. I'll be bitter and jaded, but I'll at least go out singing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWTnsemkIs)
:soangry:
That's really the $64,000 question. But as @Right_in_Virginia informs us, conservatism is unelectable. Taking that nugget of wisdom to its logical conclusion, we should just go ahead and come to terms with the fact that our noble experiment in representative self-governance is circling the drain in ever tightening spirals. I'll be bitter and jaded, but I'll at least go out singing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWTnsemkIs)
:soangry:
That's not it at all.
The ONLY way the LEFT will be defeated is for Donald Trump to succeed in his economic agenda, so that millions MORE Democratic voters will cross-over as Trump's Blue Dogs.
The 'Conservative' being discussed here will NOT negotiate for SOME of what they want. They want it all or they'll find another candidate who they believe can deliver, on that which they deem important.
They are going to have to recognize the binary choice together with the real threats facing the Constitution today, and essentially STFU, stop their whining and get behind President Donald Trump.
But they won't.
That's not it at all.
The ONLY way the LEFT will be defeated is for Donald Trump to succeed in his economic agenda, so that millions MORE Democratic voters will cross-over as Trump's Blue Dogs.
The 'Conservative' being discussed here will NOT negotiate for SOME of what they want. They want it all or they'll find another candidate who they believe can deliver, on that which they deem important.
They are going to have to recognize the binary choice together with the real threats facing the Constitution today, and essentially STFU, stop their whining and get behind President Donald Trump.
But they won't.
@geronl
Lol
After a meatloaf dinner.
I thought all the "true" conservatives wanted a man of character, not a man of political ambition. How can you trust someone who does things just for political ambition, not because it's the right thing to do. So what you're telling me is Pence is know better than any other politician. :shrug:
That's not it at all.That's because being "right" is more important to some than doing the right thing. :shrug:
The ONLY way the LEFT will be defeated is for Donald Trump to succeed in his economic agenda, so that millions MORE Democratic voters will cross-over as Trump's Blue Dogs.
The 'Conservative' being discussed here will NOT negotiate for SOME of what they want. They want it all or they'll find another candidate who they believe can deliver, on that which they deem important.
They are going to have to recognize the binary choice together with the real threats facing the Constitution today, and essentially STFU, stop their whining and get behind President Donald Trump.
But they won't.
"Look at the way I've been treated lately, especially by the media. No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly." - President Trump
That's not it at all.
The ONLY way the LEFT will be defeated is for Donald Trump to succeed in his economic agenda, so that millions MORE Democratic voters will cross-over as Trump's Blue Dogs.
The 'Conservative' being discussed here will NOT negotiate for SOME of what they want. They want it all or they'll find another candidate who they believe can deliver, on that which they deem important.
They are going to have to recognize the binary choice together with the real threats facing the Constitution today, and essentially STFU, stop their whining and get behind President Donald Trump.
But they won't.
"Look at the way I've been treated lately, especially by the media. No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly." - President Trump
They are going to have to recognize the binary choice together with the real threats facing the Constitution today, and essentially STFU, stop their whining and get behind President Donald Trump.
But they won't.
That's because being "right" is more important to some than doing the right thing. :shrug:
And that's why that Commandment about Adultery says it's ok on Thursdays only./s
You either have principles or you don't, rather simple @DCPatriot
Fascinating, isn't it?
...and when you consider what's at stake? Then you get pissed off. :smokin:
@beandogSorry, but being ambitious is not the same thing as putting aside your morals and character to support a man that you do not admire. Either Pence did admire and support the Donald, in which case according to some that would make him a man of low character, or he did it just to advance himself politically, which would make him a man of low charcter in my opinion. I sure wasn't under the impression that he wasn't a saint, just a man of high moral character. Either he is or he isn't. :shrug:
Don't be silly, no one ever said they wanted a man with no ambition, and if they had, it wouldn't have made sense. How does a person become president without wanting it and working for it? Ambition isn't negative in itself.
Right, that's exactly what I'm telling you. Were you under the impression he's a saint or something?
That's because being "right" is more important to some than doing the right thing. :shrug:
No, we won't.
Because we are governed by principles you people have no use for, and we're not wannabe Jihadists or Fascists that you opined earlier today should kill reporters and who tell everyone who doesn't seig-heil to shut up.
Who cheated on you?
No, we won't.
Because we are governed by principles you people have no use for, and we're not wannabe Jihadists or Fascists that you opined earlier today should kill reporters and who tell everyone who doesn't seig-heil to shut up.
I actually heard him say that and truer words were never spoken.
He did not follow up that statement with saying how tired he was or that he couldn't take it anymore.
Fascinating, isn't it?When I get pissed off I just go outside and dig torpedo grass out of my lawn. I seem to be doing that a lot lately. If you get really pissed off, you can come and help me. It does help. :silly:
...and when you consider what's at stake? Then you get pissed off. :smokin:
That is always what those without any governing principles charge those of us who are governed by principles.Just keep telling yourself that. *****rollingeyes*****
What you define as 'right' and what principles dictate is 'right' are mutually exclusive when it comes to Trump.
Your buddy @Frank Cannon
Sorry, but being ambitious is not the same thing as putting aside your morals and character to support a man that you do not admire. Either Pence did admire and support the Donald, in which case according to some that would make him a man of low character, or he did it just to advance himself politically, which would make him a man of low charcter in my opinion. I sure wasn't under the impression that he wasn't a saint, just a man of high moral character. Either he is or he isn't. :shrug:
You are just too good to be true. And thanks for not calling your fellow posters 'wannabe Jihadists or Facists' while claiming that Trump supporters are mean.
Quote from: DCPatriot on Today at 08:54:12 AM
It's past time to emulate the Islamic Jihadists....
That isn't what I said at all, fumb duck! *****rollingeyes*****
Quote from: DCPatriot on Today at 08:54:12 AM
It's past time to emulate the Islamic Jihadists....
And that's why that Commandment about Adultery says it's ok on Thursdays only./s
You either have principles or you don't, rather simple @DCPatriot
In the same speech (which I posted ... somewhere) the President also said "the more righteous your goal, the more opposition you will face, but don't ever, ever, ever give up!"
I haven't heard this clip on the news. :pondering:
@Emjay
When Gov. Pence vetoed the Religious Freedom Bill his Legislature passed after saying he would sign it, interrupted by the VP selection committee, His loving Trump was not a surprise, typical politician, Tea Party died a long time ago, let it go.Then why do so many posters around here seem eager to make him the next President. You either get Trump or the man who supported Trump. There are know other choices. :shrug:
The internet is forever bub:
Love baseball analogies, @corbe
Ty Cobb was hated. A mean drunk, a womanizer...to the point, nobody's wife or girlfriend, sister or mother was safe to be alone with him.
Many hometown fans and even people in the organization had 'principles' and wanted him traded.
The rest is history. http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/20249/ty-cobb (http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/20249/ty-cobb)
Then why do so many posters around here seem eager to make him the next President. You either get Trump or the man who supported Trump. There are know other choices. :shrug:
Go, Rangers.
But, yes, one thing the Trump haters have in common is that they reek of self-righteousness to the point that I had to bring my gardenia in beside my computer.
THEY are the good ones ... the ones too smart and too principled to fall for a person with as many faults as Trump has.
But, don't worry, they will be here keeping the faith (as they call it) until they succeed in poisoning the well and we have good ole liberals back in control.
That's because being "right" is more important to some than doing the right thing. :shrug:So, pray tell, how do you do "the right thing" if it is wrong?
But, don't worry, they will be here keeping the faith (as they call it) until they succeed in poisoning the well and we have good ole liberals back in control.
So, pray tell, how do you do "the right thing" if it is wrong?
Yeah....how about that?
Only difference is, that I don't give a sh*t.
I've got principles too!
Finally @beandog someone explains the BINARY Theory CORRECTLY to me.
I say we dance with the one who brung us - Trump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-fkSYDtUYSo the only answer you have is a slap in the face? About what I'd expect for jihadi guy.
And to think some of them were the dearest of friends. **nononono*
Go, Rangers.
But, yes, one thing the Trump haters have in common is that they reek of self-righteousness to the point that I had to bring my gardenia in beside my computer.
THEY are the good ones ... the ones too smart and too principled to fall for a person with as many faults as Trump has.
But, don't worry, they will be here keeping the faith (as they call it) until they succeed in poisoning the well and we have good ole liberals back in control.
You are just too good to be true. And thanks for not calling your fellow posters 'wannabe Jihadists or Facists' while claiming that Trump supporters are mean.
Yep !! I lost one who really loved me ... she's on this forum ... now she hates me.
With all due respect @DCPatriot I do get your analogy about Ty Cobb (I think) and how it relates to Principles and whether you are a winner or not based on the financial reward you return to your organization.
I have a very short Sports season-1 Month (if I'm lucky) NBA Playoffs, left MLB in the 94 Strike and the NFL when Bud Adams took my beloved Oilers to Tennessee.
This is hilarious! The guy you voted for as Prez - was a lifelong NYC LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. YOU already put good ole liberals back in control! Congrats!
We have nothing to do with it. You guys are on your own.
That is seriously what DC said today. He said we should be like jihadists.
Now THAT is mean.
I generally don't believe in banning posters here, but that level of threat of violence came mighty close to deserving permanent citizenship elsewhere for a guy claiming to be a "patriot."
And it wasn't INVAR who said it, my friend.....
The best and most correct post I've read here in 6 months. Truly nailed it...especially their belief that only they are "principled". Its an arrogance that results in blindness, and its a big part of why those of us who believe in libertarian and conservative ideals are losing this nation to the Left.
So the only answer you have is a slap in the face? About what I'd expect for jihadi guy.
It appears you don't have an answer. Thanks for playing.
What are you talking about. I don't hate you. I just find you mildly offensive.
Now stop talking behind my back. I'm always watching.
I am amused when people who support a NY Democrat accuse the rest of us of wanting to put liberals in control
Kinda surreal, ain't it?? :shrug:
Really. Are we all liberals now, that we can't understand and see hyperbole when its in use. The rational presumption is that "be like jihadists" means to be committed to a cause and single minded....not cutting off heads and blowing things up. Everyone here knows this was the meaning, why pretend it meant something horrific when it clearly did not? Perhaps it was over the top, but that's about the worst thing you could say about it. If we're going to ban people for overly harsh hyperbole, than we've gone down the liberal rat hole with little hope of return.Look all this babble about hyperbole is very nice. I feel like I'm back in junior high English class. But we all know the single minded purpose of jihadists is to get you to convert or kill you. We know the methods they are more than willing to employ. So don't sugar coat it. I asked how you "do the right thing" when it is wrong, and my answer was a video of a guy getting slapped in the face. Same poster, more violence, no logic. Sounds a mite jihadi to me.
Now run along now, and get with the program. :whistle:
Except he's not a NY Dem, he's a Republican president of the United States. Ronald Reagan was a California Dem, and he too became a Republican president. As your premise is entirely wrong, its not surprising you're amused by assertions drawn from a correct premise.
With all due respect @DCPatriot I do get your analogy about Ty Cobb (I think) and how it relates to Principles and whether you are a winner or not based on the financial reward you return to your organization.
I have a very short Sports season-1 Month (if I'm lucky) NBA Playoffs, left MLB in the 94 Strike and the NFL when Bud Adams took my beloved Oilers to Tennessee.
@Mesaclone Do you really want to go there
Reagan "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, they left me"
Trump "Bill convinced me I could BS my way through the REP Primary"
I'm glad to go there...because I've not asserted that the two men are identical. The analogy simply clarifies that having been a Dem does not forever preclude awakening to better policy ideas. The president's policies have been conservative, consistently, and his legislative initiatives have all sought to turn back the Obama tide of radical socialism. So the man is what he does...or at least...what he is explicitly efforting to do. Claiming he's an NY Lib is as vacuous as declaring Reagan a California Lib.Except for that global warming thingy http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,262569.msg1319234.html#msg1319234 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,262569.msg1319234.html#msg1319234)
Yep !! I lost one who really loved me ... she's on this forum ... now she hates me.Oh you poor, poor baby. 8888crybaby
I could to thee a tale unfold, whose lightest word,
Would harrow up they soul,
Freeze thy young blood.
Why would any rational human (including Republican) do this @Hoodat ? The "conservatism" represented by the majority of voices here is, for a myriad of reasons, simply unelectable. :shrug:
Oh you poor, poor baby. 8888crybaby
Sheesh.
I'm glad to go there...because I've not asserted that the two men are identical. The analogy simply clarifies that having been a Dem does not forever preclude awakening to better policy ideas. The president's policies have been conservative, consistently, and his legislative initiatives have all sought to turn back the Obama tide of radical socialism. So the man is what he does...or at least...what he is explicitly efforting to do. Claiming he's an NY Lib is as vacuous as declaring Reagan a California Lib.
@Right_in_Virginia
At least you are up front about opposing Conservatives. Reminds me of Bill Bolling.
In spite of that picture I know you are a dude and I don't think you find me mildly offensive.
Very offensive, maybe.
I don't want or need any pity from you. I only posted that to illustrate how One Way some people are.Sorry you wasted your time with that redundancy. Have a nice day. :laugh:
Who said I opposed conservatives @Hoodat ... I want names!!You see, that's the problem. We just aren't, and y'all are telling us to argue for the best price. Some things aren't for sale.
But the truth is until conservatives learn that politics and governing require more than a knowledge of preaching and a propensity for judging, conservatives will be stuck a minority within a minority. People just don't like either.
Rather than taking this personally ... think about it. It's really good advice.
But the truth is until conservatives learn that politics and governing require more than a knowledge of preaching and a propensity for judging, conservatives will be stuck a minority within a minority. People just don't like either.
Rather than taking this personally ... think about it. It's really good advice.
It would be if we really really wanted to 'fit in', and 'go with the flow', and follow the lemmings.
But that's not what Conservatism is about.
If you were one, you'd know that.
It would be if we really really wanted to 'fit in', and 'go with the flow', and follow the lemmings.The folks who are the soi disant variety who keep trying to remake it in their image, just like some other things are the problem. If they only had the honesty to drop the self-applied label they'd do less damage. Instead they claim the title and fight us every inch of the way, from the left side, of course.
But that's not what Conservatism is about.
If you were one, you'd know that.
I am one and I do know @roamer_1 I'm simply giving my 2 cents on how to win elections and govern. But, hey, if that isn't what conservatism is about or wants, then the strategy is working. :shrug:
Too many "conservatives" are useless because they reside in Cloudcuckooland, not the real world. Pragmatism is what gets legislation passed and change effected. Of course, those who champion the art of the possible are derided as "unprincipled" by those who fancy themselves as morally superior.
Let them bask in their phony moral superiority. They're a hell of a lot happier when the Dems are in power anyway.
Okay...I'll play this one time. But please try to keep up.
I don't give a fiddler's ###k about your highbrow principles....noble as they may be.
On one side, a 'flawed' big C Conservative, who has governed...in terms of signed EOs, bills put forth and oh yeah....Justice Neil Gorsuch on the SCOTUS....all in about 4 months, Conservatively.
The DEADLY mortal enemy....the ONLY OTHER CHOICE, is Hillary Clinton, who would destroy/repeal the 2nd Amendment, cement Single Payer into our lives...and continue to exterminate the White majority...all the while continuing to weaken our defenses and our Middle Class.
Now run along now, and get with the program. :whistle:
Matthew 16:26:
“For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”
Matthew 16:26:
“For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”
Nonsense. This has nothing to do with one's soul. Politics is the art of the possible. If you think adherence to rigid ideological purity is necessary to preserve your soul, then you're nuttier than a fruitcake.
Art of the Possible? :silly:
Wow that statement perfectly frames the Orange Mindset. Principles be damned and then.... oh fudge..... the idol is a Trojan horse.
Stay in your basement. Exposure to sunlight's bad for ya.
But the truth is until conservatives learn that politics and governing require more than a knowledge of preaching and a propensity for judging, conservatives will be stuck a minority within a minority. People just don't like either.
Rather than taking this personally ... think about it. It's really good advice.
QuoteLet them bask in their phony moral superiority. They're a hell of a lot happier when the Dems are in power anyway.
Amen, brother!
Too many "conservatives" are useless because they reside in Cloudcuckooland, not the real world. Pragmatism is what gets legislation passed and change effected. Of course, those who champion the art of the possible are derided as "unprincipled" by those who fancy themselves as morally superior.Well, when the Dems are in power, the Republicans aren't so damned obsessed with fighting Conservatives.
Let them bask in their phony moral superiority. They're a hell of a lot happier when the Dems are in power anyway.
Why would any rational human (including Republican) do this @Hoodat ? The "conservatism" represented by the majority of voices here is, for a myriad of reasons, simply unelectable. :shrug:
So your advice is to abandon Conservatism for political expediency. Got it.
In other words, you oppose Conservatism.
So your advice is to abandon Conservatism for political expediency. Got it.
In other words, you oppose Conservatism.
Trump was pretty far down my list, but higher than Cruz, who was pretty much a Cuban-American Barry Goldwater.
My top choices for 2016 were Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and Marco Rubio. Trump was pretty far down my list, but higher than Cruz, who was pretty much a Cuban-American Barry Goldwater.
I support conservatism
A big part of this is the fact that the Left has the edge in the media, they have academia, and they also have pop culture via domination of Hollywood. Not to mention most of the "civil servants" in government at all levels are left-of-center. The civil servants can always wait out the elected politicians. The media and pop culture will shape how many see things.
LOL
Robinson can't get that rustbucket site taped back together fast enough.
LOL
Robinson can't get that rustbucket site taped back together fast enough.
No. His advice is to get the most conservative legislation possible enacted into law
My top choices for 2016 were Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and Marco Rubio. Trump was pretty far down my list, but higher than Cruz, who was pretty much a Cuban-American Barry Goldwater.Oh well, the more things change the more they remain the same. I liked Goldwater over Johnson, too. I haven't changed, but for all y'all's soul-selling finesse, You have only lost a lot of ground.
I support conservatism, but am tired of the tactical and strategic incompetence of its leaders over the past decade-plus.
Do you really believe that conservatism would have survived the army of Lois Lerners and a Merrick Garland Supreme Court that Hillary Clinton would have wrought?
Funny how some our Trumpet hoard calls us haters for our comments, and not bowing down to the orange idol. Still the TOS brings their Cruz hate in periodic fashion. They are really becoming an amusing lot.
Nonsense. This has nothing to do with one's soul. Politics is the art of the possible. If you think adherence to rigid ideological purity is necessary to preserve your soul, then you're nuttier than a fruitcake.Your lack of true wisdom is extruding.
You support conservatism, But the most conservative candidate of the entire list was Cruz, and he was the bottom of choices?. Hmmmmm.....
Cruz lost me with his tactical and strategic incompetence in the 2013 Obamacare shutdown fight.
It was a fight at the wrong time, on the wrong issue, and with insufficient resources.
How many times did Harry Reid circular-file legislation when Democrats had the Senate majority? Did anyone seriously think he was going to allow a vote to defund Obamacare?
You can talk your principles all you want, but Cruz would have lost in a landslide with his proven tactical and strategic incompetence. The wages of that would have been an army of Lois Lerners suppressing conservative speech while a Merrick Garland Supreme Court invented "constitutional rights" for every left-wing agenda item under the sun. The wages Barry Goldwater's tactical and strategic incompetence was mere bankruptcy from an entitlement state that LBJ had the popular mandate for.
Sorry if I wasn't eager to join your quest to commit suicide.
with his proven tactical and strategic incompetence.
Your lack of true wisdom is extruding.
The pedestal you seat yourself upon has a truly precarious tilt to it.
Humility in the face of God and others is where it all begins.
And your POTUS Trump has excelled so well in that area. :silly:
That slow gurgling sound is your credibility circling the drain.
Let's see... 304 electoral votes in the last Presidential election, despite NeverTrumpers on the right and the media...
Based on those results, I'll take Trump. Voter registration data in Florida, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin are still showing net gains for Republicans.
Soul and principles are a concept that's beyond the understanding of the orange crowd.
Hope they are getting more than 30 pieces of silver (check about 10 chapters down).
Your lack of true wisdom is extruding.
The pedestal you seat yourself upon has a truly precarious tilt to it.
Humility in the face of God and others is where it all begins.
Here lies @catfish1957 , whose children and grandchildren's freedoms were taken by the American Left.I'd rather be remembered here (and in the hereafter) for having principles than for being a sellout.
But the SOB had 'principles'.
:whistle:
Careful...he'll end up calling you an intolerant religious bigot like he has others here.Darn...he's on to us! :silly:
Here lies @catfish1957 , whose children and grandchildren's freedoms were taken by the American Left.
But the SOB had 'principles'.
:whistle:
Let's see... 304 electoral votes in the last Presidential election, despite NeverTrumpers on the right and the media...
Based on those results, I'll take Trump. Voter registration data in Florida, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin are still showing net gains for Republicans.
Here lies DCP who sold his soul and anyone that he cared for down the orange river on the myth of a "wall"
But hey, he believed in "MAGA" till the failed bitter end...and was tossed upon the ash heap of failed Populist regimes for his efforts.
:shrug:
Here lies @catfish1957 , whose children and grandchildren's freedoms were taken by the American Left.
But the SOB had 'principles'.
:whistle:
LOL I was thinking the same thing.
Help is on the way!
(http://i.imgur.com/Yatu9WI.gif)
This is what "Conservative" #NT do one their down time. Smoke dope with Chuck Schumer.....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAHbgklUQAAtl-R.jpg)
This is what "Conservative" #NT do one their down time. Smoke dope with Chuck Schumer.....That's what we get for not hanging out with the 'cool kids' with the orange crack pipe... :shrug:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAHbgklUQAAtl-R.jpg)
Careful...he'll end up calling you an intolerant religious bigot like he has others here.A bigot title I can take, but will not take turning my face to the one who created us.
I'd rather be remembered here (and in the hereafter) for having principles than for being a sellout.
A bigot title I can take, but will not take turning my face to the one who created us.
This is what "Conservative" #NT do one their down time. Smoke dope with Chuck Schumer.....
@Cripplecreek
Lol
Praying John picks the right key...
(http://i.imgur.com/DAheL.gif)
That's what we get for not hanging out with the 'cool kids' with the orange crack pipe... :shrug:
Shouldn't that be left to the Trumpbots...I mean Trump does consider Schmucky a good friend...someone that he can work with.
I am one and I do know @roamer_1 I'm simply giving my 2 cents on how to win elections and govern. But, hey, if that isn't what conservatism is about or wants, then the strategy is working. :shrug:
You say that but there are your two heroes having a circle jerk yesterday with a corrupt POS.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZnJtybZ4It4EE/giphy.gif?response_id=591db8b2577e0ef34da9ce6c)Reminds me of the old windows message:
Reminds me of the old windows message:
If you are having trouble connecting to the internet, check our Online Help...
Not my heroes. The people I consider heroes have nothing to with the idiots currently infesting Sodom on the Potomac.
I leave the Idol worship to folks like you.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZnJtybZ4It4EE/giphy.gif?response_id=591db8b2577e0ef34da9ce6c)
LOL
Robinson can't get that rustbucket site taped back together fast enough.
Amen, brother!
That's just it. The Democrats effectively are in power, because Conservatism has been abandoned by the very people campaigning on its coattails. The Dems get to keep Obamacare. The Dems get to keep exorbitant tax rates. The Dems get to keep baseline budgeting. The Dems get to keep annual trillion dollar expansions of the money supply through the printing-of-the-money by the Fed. And the Dems get to keep control of the narrative. All because Conservatives were told to get in the back of the bus by people who care more about holding on to political power just like Democrats than they care about actually rolling back the power of Government.
To hell with you all you Democrat-wannabees. Unless we begin cutting back the encroachment of government in our lives - unless we get the federal government the hell out of health care insurance - unless we bring federal spending below 19% of GDP - unless we implement a flat tax where everyone who holds a job becomes accountable, then we as a nation will cease to exist. And after 17 months of campaigning, two months of preparation, and four months in office, it is clear that not one of you Trump sycophants gives a damn about any of these things. All you care about is having power.
Lets keep it at Defcon 3 or lower, please.But lower numbers are a higher alert state. Jus' saying... :shrug:
Haven't you heard? 'Pragmatism' is what wins elections and makes change.Oh. Like McDonalds.
Principles are are for those who are 'nuttier than a fruitcake'.Better to have nuts than be nuts.
'Principles' are for those who want a theocratic dictatorship.What "theo"? There are a couple out there that don't match my principles.
Just like their Leftist counterparts, the AlwaysTrump Pragmatists are going to ignore facts when it denigrates their political parties and messiahs, even when most of what is promised in terms of shrinking the power of the Beast is reneged by the very peoples and party they put into power.Well, they have ever handled defeat badly, especially at their own hands. SSDD, really. I just wonder how all those people they didn't need (or want, even) got to be the bad guys. :shrug:
Reminds me of the old windows message:
If you are having trouble connecting to the internet, check our Online Help...
Folks like me azzhole? Who exactly are folks like me you little bleep?
I just wonder how all those people they didn't need (or want, even) got to be the bad guys. :shrug:
Folks like me azzhole? Who exactly are folks like me you little bleep?
Cruz lost me with his tactical and strategic incompetence in the 2013 Obamacare shutdown fight.
It was a fight at the wrong time, on the wrong issue, and with insufficient resources.
How many times did Harry Reid circular-file legislation when Democrats had the Senate majority? Did anyone seriously think he was going to allow a vote to defund Obamacare?
You can talk your principles all you want, but Cruz would have lost in a landslide with his proven tactical and strategic incompetence. The wages of that would have been an army of Lois Lerners suppressing conservative speech while a Merrick Garland Supreme Court invented "constitutional rights" for every left-wing agenda item under the sun. The wages Barry Goldwater's tactical and strategic incompetence was mere bankruptcy from an entitlement state that LBJ had the popular mandate for.
Sorry if I wasn't eager to join your quest to commit suicide.
I hope God is running next time because there is no earthly being that suits 'you people.'
Not to mention his boys premeditated effort to smear Cruz and his family. Trumpets and their leader deserve each other.
The primaries ended months ago. Who is worse those that blindly support Trump (which is bad) or those that complain about it yet still are the only ones pointing back to the primaries they never got over. Hillary supporters are doing the same thing today. Throwing fits because their horse didn't make the podium.I was a supporter Sen. Cruz and still believe he'd have been a better president than Trump but, I am happy to see that Sen. Cruz is more of an adult and patriot than some of those who supposedly supported him. If he is able to put aside any feelings of bitterness he has towards Trump, with reason, to do what is best for the country than who am I to do differently. :shrug:
The primaries ended months ago. Who is worse those that blindly support Trump (which is bad) or those that complain about it yet still are the only ones pointing back to the primaries they never got over.So just because it was in the past, it's OK now, even though he never actually rectified the damage he caused?
So just because it was in the past, it's OK now, even though he never actually rectified the damage he caused?If Sen. Cruz can move on for the good of the country, so can you. :thud:
If Sen. Cruz can move on for the good of the country, so can you. :thud:
So just because it was in the past, it's OK now, even though he never actually rectified the damage he caused?
The primaries ended months ago. Who is worse those that blindly support Trump (which is bad) or those that complain about it yet still are the only ones pointing back to the primaries they never got over. Hillary supporters are doing the same thing today.
Yeah, Kind of missed that little "apology" thing. Has the Orange ever apologized for anything?
Yeah, Kind of missed that little "apology" thing. Has the Orange ever apologized for anything?Even if he did, would it ever be anything more than lipservice?
So just because it was in the past, it's OK now, even though he never actually rectified the damage he caused?
YES. He did angrily apologize for the 'Grab em by the Pu**y' comment, looking like he was dragged to the mike.
We're supposed to pretend that he's a decent person now because he got elected. And if we still think he's an amoral jerk, we wouldn't be satisfied with anyone but "God."
The arguments in defense of Trump, and the accusations of people who still haven't fallen for him, are pretty lame.
The issue was and still remains, character.Well said! It amazes me that after all the complaints about the ship of state being on a port tack, the solution was to jettison the rudder and berate those who wanted to come about.
Trump illustrated in the Primaries (indeed his entire public life), that he was not a man of moral character to entrust the Presidency to in order to further Conservative principles into governance. Trump does not really believe in those principles to begin with. He believes in self. Something even the Trump Faithful admit and admire.
Given what we've endured since Clinton and Obama - it has become obvious that character, honesty, integrity and foundational principles are ino longer important to the American people. We are become as Ancient Israel was under the rule of exponentially wicked and selfish leaders that the people demanded rule them while they practiced those things that destroy a civilization.
It is become obvious that Americans want a Punisher and they want a Provider, not a statesman. Sure they pay lip service to the Constitution - until it is said to be an obstacle towards 'doing what is right' on the avenue of expedience. I cannot count the number of times I have read from Trump's acolytes that he needs to act as dictator or circumvent Congress to do what needs to be done. An immoral people who are the most animated will always demand immoral leaders.
Cruz would likely have suffered the same if not worse treatment from the Oligarchy in the Establishment, the Left and the Media that Trump has. Maybe moreso. The difference is that Cruz would not be handing them ammunition on a daily basis because he has no self control. Nor would he be stoking the fires of conflict and war over the divisions now being made irreconcilable. Publicly flicking the noses of your opposition while giving them the finger via thumbs on Twitter, only exacerbates the divides and engenders the war that has been brewing for decades.
But this is what happens with a man is given Authority and power whom has no core convictions or principles except whatever he can declare a 'win' which often entails humiliation off those who do not adore him, because narcissism demands it.
It is not the fact that the most Conservative candidates lost the primaries to Trump, it is the daily drumbeat we have read since, from Trump's supporters that illustrate they have as much contempt for Conservative principles that the Democrats do when those principles negate total support of their leader.
My guess is that he only did that to try to fool the non-thinking "evangelical Christians" who wanted to pretend he wasn't an amoral letch who sexually assaulted women on a regular basis.
Unfortunately, it worked, and for the most part "evangelicals" no longer have any moral authority.
The issue was and still remains, character.
My guess is that he only did that to try to fool the non-thinking "evangelical Christians" who wanted to pretend he wasn't an amoral letch who sexually assaulted women on a regular basis.There was the whole well-timed "Anointed of God" smear campaign that ensured another front runner would not get the Evangelical vote. Someone was made out to be the next Jim Jones.
Unfortunately, it worked, and for the most part "evangelicals" no longer have any moral authority.
We're supposed to pretend that he's a decent person now because he got elected. And if we still think he's an amoral jerk, we wouldn't be satisfied with anyone but "God."
The arguments in defense of Trump, and the accusations of people who still haven't fallen for him, are pretty lame.
It does not remain character. Not to You People."Read my Lips"... It's all about character.
You denigrate the two Bush presidents on a regular basis and they were men of exemplary character.
What remains is someone who is perfect; that is someone who does exactly what you would do in every situation.
The fact is that until very recently we did not know that much about the private lives or characters of our presidents.
You continue to mistake Trump for The Enemy because you feed on his past and cringe at his personal habits, such as tweeting.
Very childish. You will never have a leader who suits you.
"Read my Lips"... It's all about character.
As for mistaking Trump for the enemy, no, I know what he is, and we saw that long ago. He lost my vote in Iowa, in one statement that revealed his opportunistic nature rather than the principles and gumption to do the right thing. I'm only pleasantly surprised when he gets it right, and saying Hillary would have been worse is little consolation.
It's his supporters who are often insufferable boors, insisting they are 'conservative' and that he is, and destroying another fine word.
I'm not even so disappointed that those of us who are Originalist Constitutionalists and Federalists have to find a new name for "Conservative", because we saw this coming, too.
"Read my Lips"... It's all about character.:amen:
As for mistaking Trump for the enemy, no, I know what he is, and we saw that long ago. He lost my vote in Iowa, in one statement that revealed his opportunistic nature rather than the principles and gumption to do the right thing. I'm only pleasantly surprised when he gets it right, and saying Hillary would have been worse is little consolation.
It's his supporters who are often insufferable boors, insisting they are 'conservative' and that he is, and destroying another fine word.
I'm not even so disappointed that those of us who are Originalist Constitutionalists and Federalists have to find a new name for "Conservative", because we saw this coming, too.
It does not remain character. Not to You People.
You denigrate the two Bush presidents on a regular basis and they were men of exemplary character.
The fact is that until very recently we did not know that much about the private lives or characters of our presidents.
You continue to mistake Trump for The Enemy because you feed on his past and cringe at his personal habits, such as tweeting.
Very childish. You will never have a leader who suits you.
"Read my Lips"... It's all about character.
As for mistaking Trump for the enemy, no, I know what he is, and we saw that long ago. He lost my vote in Iowa, in one statement that revealed his opportunistic nature rather than the principles and gumption to do the right thing. I'm only pleasantly surprised when he gets it right, and saying Hillary would have been worse is little consolation.
It's his supporters who are often insufferable boors, insisting they are 'conservative' and that he is, and destroying another fine word.
I'm not even so disappointed that those of us who are Originalist Constitutionalists and Federalists have to find a new name for "Conservative", because we saw this coming, too.
Show us where I have denigrated either Bush on this board. Go on. Show us all the quotes where I have denigrated them.
Certainly not among a population of persons such as yourself that is for sure.
Trump is not the enemy! The enemy is the corrupt inside the beltway crowd who will do ANYTHING to preserve their precious swamp no matter what it takes! The media will aid them all they can in their efforts!
Trump is not the enemy! The enemy is the corrupt inside the beltway crowd who will do ANYTHING to preserve their precious swamp no matter what it takes! The media will aid them all they can in their efforts!
Speaking as a person such as myself, you make no sense whatever.
My dear Friend, according to the rabid Trump supporters, WE are the enemy if we do not fully genuflect, 'get on the Trump train' and defend/support/cheer and toss up accolades for their dear leader. In fact, in the past two days - the word treason has been directed at those of us critical of Trump.
Trump may not be my enemy. But his mobs of supporters have declared those of us who dare to be critical, to be the enemy.
So be it.
I shortened all the propaganda, there, because I am one of the "You People", which means I am not one of the other people, with which you identify. Which puts you and the squishes and the rest over on the Liberal side.
No one can tell me a really Bad thing he has done AS PRESIDENT except exist.
Noting the entry into force of the Paris Agreement on climate change and its implementation, and reiterating the need for global action to reduce both long-lived greenhouse gases and short-lived climate pollutants, andhttps://www.state.gov/e/oes/rls/other/2017/270802.htm (https://www.state.gov/e/oes/rls/other/2017/270802.htm)
Reaffirming the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and the need for their realization by 2030...
If people get on the wrong side of this war for America, they will be very sorry when and if the other side wins.No argument here. The question is who is on what side, and how do you determine if it is the right one? That, m'am, is a matter of principle.
Trump is not the enemy! The enemy is the corrupt inside the beltway crowd who will do ANYTHING to preserve their precious swamp no matter what it takes! The media will aid them all they can in their efforts!No argument here!
While you wait for perfection and get some joy about calling people insufferable boors, the rest of us will try to work with what we have and defend against liberalism.
@musiclady
Oh, more than that! We're supposed to DEFEND him, and ignore that the blatant fact of his own flawed character allows the attacks upon him, removes erstwhile opponents (and many many others) from coming to his aid, and largely is causal to his own dilemmas and eventual destruction.
We are to see him only in a orange-rosy glow, and dismiss all criticism...
No argument here!
I'm only distressed at the hubris that thought it could strike deals with the 535 in full save their asses mode.
No breach in the swamp will be enough to dump that slime into the Tidal Basin, and there aren't sufficient numbers of vac trucks in the country to draw it off fast enough.
The only good thing is that with a nominal Republican in the White House, the cadre on the Hill are breaking cover to save their phony baloney jobs, and to keep the status quo. It's time to pay particular attention to the Congress, because they will hide behind the present kerfuffle in the media and do dastardly deeds behind that smokescreen.
I get the strong feeling, with many #nevertrumps the preferred scenario is to lose with Mr. polite, Mr. nice, cherubs like Dole, McCain and Romney.
We lose, but their high morals and principles are secure. Funny thing, though. They bitched about all of those guys, too.
#nevertrump neversatisfied, never, never, never but always right. Right, right, right.
I would rather be happy (winning, holding power) than be right about every signal last detail through long winded repetitive sermons by the hour.
My dear Friend, according to the rabid Trump supporters, WE are the enemy if we do not fully genuflect, 'get on the Trump train' and defend/support/cheer and toss up accolades for their dear leader. In fact, in the past two days - the word treason has been directed at those of us critical of Trump.
Trump may not be my enemy. But his mobs of supporters have declared those of us who dare to be critical, to be the enemy.
So be it.
No, lady, we are not supposed to pretend that Trump is a decent person. But, yes, some people will never be satisfied and Trump has given them an opportunity to vent their hate daily.
I'm really tired of having to reiterate that I am fully aware of Trump's character flaws and I don't like them any more than you do.
But I also live in the real world and in that world there are two elements fighting for control of our country. There is the liberal element that believes in everything we fear and hate and there is the Republican side.
Yes, there are squishes on the Republican side and people who don't meet our hopes but basically they are Our Side.
I cannot be convinced that there's any benefit to continually spend our time bashing Trump. What benefit is there?? No one can explain it to me, except enjoying proving daily that the bashers are far too good and fine to accept Trump while the scum among us does so.
Trump has done some good things; and he has tried to do more but been deterred by a congress that is a bit divided.
No one can tell me a really Bad thing he has done AS PRESIDENT except exist.
If people get on the wrong side of this war for America, they will be very sorry when and if the other side wins.
I would rather be happy (winning, holding power).
Still peddling falsehoods, I see @INVAR . Nobody has claimed that being critical of Trump is treasonous.
I should have bitch-slapped you for the lying turd you are as was my first notion.
My problem is that I realize that Trump, himself, is on the wrong side of this war for America.
Just because he stuck an R by his name and the Republican establishment decided to ignore who he was and that he didn't believe in anything they were supposed to believe in, doesn't change who he really is.
In my opinion, the war for America was lost when the Republican party opted to choose a populist, unprincipled liberal as their candidate, and give us the rancid choice we had in November.
Now there is no longer a major party that even pretends to stand for American principles. I'm a little late to understanding that fully, though I've been moving that direction for years, but Trump's nomination proved to me that neither the Democrat party (which, I've known since I was sitting on my Daddy's knee), nor the Republican party represents the values I have always held as a patriotic American citizen.
Sorry if that offends you and that you feel like I should stop telling the truth about Trump, but I'm not going to comply and give up what I think is most important just because people on the internet don't like it.
I get the strong feeling, with many #nevertrumps the preferred scenario is to lose with Mr. polite, Mr. nice, cherubs like Dole, McCain and Romney.
We lose, but their high morals and principles are secure. Funny thing, though. They bitched about all of those guys, too.
#nevertrump neversatisfied, never, never, never but always right. Right, right, right.
I would rather be happy (winning, holding power) than be right about every signal last detail through long winded repetitive sermons by the hour.
I get the strong feeling, with many #nevertrumps the preferred scenario is to lose with Mr. polite, Mr. nice, cherubs like Dole, McCain and Romney.If that's the case, then why do you spend your time here endlessly treating us to your erroneous interpretations of what we supposedly think?
We lose, but their high morals and principles are secure. Funny thing, though. They bitched about all of those guys, too.
#nevertrump neversatisfied, never, never, never but always right. Right, right, right.
I would rather be happy (winning, holding power) than be right about every signal [sic] last detail through long winded repetitive sermons by the hour.
You betcha. While they are sulling and whining, while they are waiting for a third or fourth party and a perfect candidate, we will man the barricades with the weapons we actually have.Just be careful to construct them across the street, and point yourselves in the correct direction, toward the liberals.
If that's the case, then why do you spend your time here endlessly treating us to your erroneous interpretations of what we supposedly think?
The devil's in the details.
Just be careful to construct them across the street, and point yourselves in the correct direction, toward the liberals.
Thank you.
Stuff a sock in it and STFU. Very elegant and meaningful. Is that all you have?Nope I found a typo, too. Fun for everyone.
If I knew what you heck you meant by that I would either agree or disagree with you, or possibly still be confused.The barricades y'all are going to be manning. Just a tactical tip.
You betcha. While they are sulling and whining, while they are waiting for a third or fourth party and a perfect candidate, we will man the barricades with the weapons we actually have.
You betcha. While they are sulling and whining, while they are waiting for a third or fourth party and a perfect candidate, we will man the barricades with the weapons we actually have.
Hope those weapons are sharper than your wit.I just want them to point them the right way.
Just sayin...
Count me in! @Emjay
Stuff a sock in it and STFU. Very elegant and meaningful. Is that all you have?
I just want them to point them the right way.
Hope those weapons are sharper than your wit.
Just sayin...
You betcha. While they are sulling and whining, while they are waiting for a third or fourth party and a perfect candidate, we will man the barricades with the weapons we actually have.
If I knew what you heck you meant by that I would either agree or disagree with you, or possibly still be confused.
I'm so witty; I'm so pretty;
You've gotta admit it, Radio Guy, you have met your match in prettiness.
They are so busy thinking about what Trump hasn't done... ... they are doing NOTHING to help matters.
They don't know what they want. They haven't thought past their glorious standards.
:beer:
I have a face made for radio...never denied that.
However I also have seen your FB profile pic.
:whistle:
Please keep your fire downrange. Shoot at the liberals, not us, even if we don't agree all the time. Something like that, we're trying to prevent casualties from friendly fire.
In fact, this whole thread's been friendly fire, and I'm surprised the Mods haven't locked it yet.
In fact, this whole thread's been friendly fire, and I'm surprised the Mods haven't locked it yet.
Ooooh. That hurts. Getting mean now, are you?
Same here.Yeah, sort of like muscle memory. They've been so busy attacking us that they'd do it out of habit. I wonder if they even attack Democrats any more?
Sadly they are either going to be pointed in a generally circular direction...or away from the real enemy completely.
Enjoy the winning for winning's sake, and power for power's sake.I will truly do that.
I will truly do that.
eg, The power to achieve the most conservative outcome, from among no vote, 3rd party vanity weirdo, democrat or Republican.
Votes cast for the first 3 options do not do that, but the 4th does.
Enough.
Thread locked temporarily. If the personal sniping starts up on another thread, timeouts will happen.
I liked it better when it was locked.
I will truly do that.
eg, The power to achieve the most conservative outcome, from among no vote, 3rd party vanity weirdo, democrat or Republican.
Votes cast for the first 3 options do not do that, but the 4th does.
I liked it better when Republicans stood on principle instead of being Democrat-lite.
I liked it better when Republicans stood on principle instead of being Democrat-lite.
[...] make silk purse out of a sow's ear [...]
I liked it better when Republicans stood on principle instead of being Democrat-lite.I think by that standard, there has been only Reagan who would pass the test of not being democrat lite.
Can you name a single election since WWII where the democrat was the conservative, by comparison to the Republican?
I think by that standard, there has been only Reagan who would pass the test of not being democrat lite.
But we got Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Bush I, Bush II and Trump. Always better than the alternative.
Perot was the only 3rd party person that came close to having a chance.
Can you name a single election since WWII where the democrat was the conservative, by comparison to the Republican?
And the strident SOCONS will have to be tied up in the trunk.
Trump is not remotely close to Reagan. HOWEVER what specific ACTIONS has Trump taken as President that makes him Democrat lite?
I liked it better when Republicans stood on principle instead of being Democrat-lite.
What "principle" are you referring to @Hoodat
You mean besides not revoking Obamacare...trying to force Israel into a two state solution and going soft on curbing illegal immigrants sneaking across our borders?
Not too much I guess.
What "principle" are you referring to @Hoodat
You mean besides not revoking Obamacare...trying to force Israel into a two state solution and going soft on curbing illegal immigrants sneaking across our borders?
Not too much I guess.
You mean besides not revoking Obamacare...trying to force Israel into a two state solution and going soft on curbing illegal immigrants sneaking across our borders?
Not too much I guess.
Engaging in the impossible is seldom profitable.Just another one-eared pig, smeared with lipstick.
Just another one-eared pig, smeared with lipstick.
I believe I've heard none other than yourself accuse Trump of having dictatorial proclivities. If he had decreed Obamacare hereby repealed would you have applauded?
The truth is that seeing what the Democrat Party has become...[full blown anarchists who want to expand socialism and repeal Amendments and tear down statues....complete surrender to the good of the State, screw your Bill of Rights.], the millions upon millions of their blue collar, God-fearing voters will continue to cross over and embrace Donald Trump and maybe put down stakes.There you go again. Get the "family" in town and trash the place threatening to tie people up. I'd love to see you try. That'd be a hoot.
So, the 'Republicans' will be even MORE moderate. And the strident SOCONS will have to be tied up in the trunk.
And @Hoodat .....there's no place else for you to go.
The truth is that seeing what the Democrat Party has become...[full blown anarchists who want to expand socialism and repeal Amendments and tear down statues....complete surrender to the good of the State, screw your Bill of Rights.], the millions upon millions of their blue collar, God-fearing voters will continue to cross over and embrace Donald Trump and maybe put down stakes.
So, the 'Republicans' will be even MORE moderate. And the strident SOCONS will have to be tied up in the trunk.
And @Hoodat .....there's no place else for you to go.
I don't want him to rule by fiat like Obama did.
You mean besides not revoking Obamacare...trying to force Israel into a two state solution and going soft on curbing illegal immigrants sneaking across our borders?You left out the Secretary of State who signed off on the Global warming thing.
Not too much I guess.
Thats a relief.
I invite you to attempt to tie us up and put us in the trunk sir.
You reveal yourself to be no different than those you just railed against.
There you go again. Get the "family" in town and trash the place threatening to tie people up. I'd love to see you try. That'd be a hoot.
Shouldn't come to any surprise to you. I've been consistently saying that since he took office.
@INVAR
Just more keyboard tough-guy gasbaggery from someone who wouldn't budge off his sofa.
Good thing, too. Anyone who lays a finger on me will draw back a stump.
The smaller percentage of the whole [body] your ideological takes you, the less of a voice you have.
Unless you're the rectum, that is.
The other poster made a decent point - to date Trump has been no less conservative than, say, GW Bush was.
Not exactly what I wanted out of this election either, but denying that he has done some good since January does no ones credibility any favors.
I know this is over your head, but we really do not care if our voice is drowned out by a mob majority - because we are governed by something you have no use for.
(http://www.smartvalueblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/AlwaysStandOnPrincipleEvenIfYouStandAlone.jpg)
Keep editing garbage boy.
We'll see what the price was of that "some good" in four years. My guess is it will be higher than GW's.
The other poster made a decent point - to date Trump has been no less conservative than, say, GW Bush was.
Not exactly what I wanted out of this election either, but denying that he has done some good since January does no ones credibility any favors.
LOL! Then he tries to turn it around on me.
You're the 3rd man in on an ongoing back and forth, and suggests I want to literally come to your houses and tie you up.
How far did you go in your English studies?
The little bit of good he has done so far keeps getting overshadowed by the stuff he keeps screwing up.
Oh, wait!
What about your claim that I was coming literally to tie you up and put you in the trunk, pajama man?
You betcha. While they are sulling and whining, while they are waiting for a third or fourth party and a perfect candidate, we will man the barricades with the weapons we actually have.And you will be defeated, just as you are being defeated now
So I keep reading. Time will tell the truth from fantasy.
Hope springs eternal.
Let's stop the rectum references... *****rollingeyes*****
I have an idea! Let's just stop. Locked.Look at that...another thread locked!
Look at that...another thread locked!
What "principle" are you referring to @Hoodat
<sigh>
Again, get the federal government the hell out of the health insurance industry, put an end to baseline budgeting, reduce spending to a level no higher than 19% of GDP, end the Social Security Ponzi scheme by replacing it with real investment, and put a stop to printing up new money to finance federal spending.
It's called 'limited government'.
So, the 'Republicans' will be even MORE moderate. And the strident SOCONS will have to be tied up in the trunk.
And @Hoodat .....there's no place else for you to go.
<sigh>
Again, get the federal government the hell out of the health insurance industry, put an end to baseline budgeting, reduce spending to a level no higher than 19% of GDP, end the Social Security Ponzi scheme by replacing it with real investment, and put a stop to printing up new money to finance federal spending.
It's called 'limited government'.
Let's stop the rectum references... *****rollingeyes*****
It's night of the living thread.:silly: @RoosGirl
Ah, the SOCON bogeyman. How quaint. Nevermind that I never mentioned a singe social issue. I simply want the power of government severely curtailed just as our Founding Fathers intended. Clearly, you believe otherwise, just as your 'tied up in the trunk' phrase indicates. At least we now know which of us supports liberty and which of us supports tyranny (as long as it's his kind of tyranny).
Christ, Almighty. Can ANYBODY read?
I separated you from them. Go ahead. Look.
Homeless Freepers... now that is funny! @corbe We are homeless right now. :laugh:
I did. You offered a binary choice. (Sound familiar?)
A. Join a more moderate Repubican Party
B. Get locked in the trunk with the SOCONS.
@flowers, btw...when you go back to TOS and Jim is talking about the new server he needs money for, you might want to ask him what happened to the new server he bought about three years ago. The site crashed during every one of the 2012 debates, and on election night. He seemed really excited when he and John bought the thing.
It sure didn't last long....
These FR renegades just don't understand the damage they leave in their wake.
FR will come back up this Month, I think, and it will take us Briefers weeks to reeducate/subjugate our small Trump Community again!
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/58641313.jpg)
Jim Robbingman
8 hrs
Received a two part message from John. The first part went into some of the horror stories of procurement, replacement and recovery but he ended it upbeat. Sounds like he's making great progress. Says he's going to go up to San Jose and purchase some additional equipment then he should be ready to install. And he says installation should be straightforward as the drive is pre-loaded and ready to go. The only thing he left off was the timing and I haven't heard back from him on that yet. Oops, he just responded to my question if we were going to be up today.. Said it depends on how many unexpected problems like he had yesterday pop up. Prayers up!
You're a sturdy Conservative who happens to dislike Donald Trump on a personal level. You're pragmatic.
Are you going to jump in the fire with the nutz? Or, are you going to be part of a bigger and greater Republican Party.?
If you read that post that upset you again, you'll see it that.
Hasn't this bullshit song and dance about "John going to somewhere" to fix this or that been the line for decades? Can't he come up with a better lie on why the site is down?
If I was running a site like that I wouldn't have to drive anywhere to get to my server(s) and I don't know chit about running a website!
I sent him my whole Social Security Check just to buy some Peace in here. Those freepers are making such a mess of things.
You're a sturdy Conservative. You're pragmatic.
be part of a bigger and greater Republican Party.?
If I was running a site like that I wouldn't have to drive anywhere to get to my server(s) and I don't know chit about running a website!
If you were running a site like that I would call you a crooked son of a bitch and mock you for being a jack ass.
LSP-Later Stage Puberty, I thought everybody had that, that's what the Doctors told me.
Good for you. They don't hand out checks for alcoholism anymore so I have had to cut back on my trips to Vegas to meet whores.
Oh, but they do Frank, they added another letter, it's called LSP/F now, Latter Stage Puberty/Freeper syndrome, not only do you act stupid you actually are stupid.
Ok I didn't really mean it Freepers I love yall,
signed
sappy ba$tard
The unmovable principles of the Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives, Foreign Policy/Defense Conservatives, and the civil libertarians. You can look them up.Maybe you had the Reagan amnesty in mind too?
Those freepers are making such a mess of things.
You need to check your hearing.
I don't want him to rule by fiat like Obama did.
He should have told Congress to bring him the total repeal they approved 2 years ago so he could sign it.
Hell he could still do that now.
But he won't.
He wants single payer.
@INVARRich. You criticize DC Patriot of "keyboard tough-guy gasbaggery" then issue a threat.
Just more keyboard tough-guy gasbaggery from someone who wouldn't budge off his sofa.
Good thing, too. Anyone who lays a finger on me will draw back a stump.
@INVAR
Just more keyboard tough-guy gasbaggery from someone who wouldn't budge off his sofa.
Good thing, too. Anyone who lays a finger on me will draw back a stump.
Maybe you had the Reagan amnesty in mind too?
Notice you got a hard on for the Freepers tonight. One of them take your parking spot today?
Maybe you had the Reagan amnesty in mind too?Actually, that was one of the things he did I did not approve of.
I do @Frank Cannon and I know it's obvious, it's just an old animosity showing back up and I wasn't even Zotted, just everything else they that do over there when they don't agree with ya, unlike here, I gotta admit their Server being down has brought some different meat, fresh ideas here to chew on and I've enjoyed it, whether or not I'll miss them when Jim gets his archaic Server System back up is another story, but this too shall pass.
<sigh>
Again, get the federal government the hell out of the health insurance industry, put an end to baseline budgeting, reduce spending to a level no higher than 19% of GDP, end the Social Security Ponzi scheme by replacing it with real investment, and put a stop to printing up new money to finance federal spending.
They don't hand out checks for alcoholism anymore so I have had to cut back on my trips to Vegas to meet whores.
They still do that there?
I thought everything was online or on Amazon these days.
You know, a virtual drive up to a twosome in furs and high heels and place a bid like on eBay for a potential score?
Don't panic. When all your fair weather friends head back to their psychotic shit hole, I will still be here to knock you down when you are up.
BTW, I wasn't zotted either. My page is still there intact as a creepy reminder like that of being raped in prison. If I could remember all the DOS programming you needed to use to conduct business over there I would get rid of it.
* in context this is not the same reference to rectal as before, which has been banned temporarily.
Tried the Amazon thing, but the items were getting damaged on the UPS trucks before delivery.
The unmovable principles of the Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives, Foreign Policy/Defense Conservatives, and the civil libertarians. You can look them up.
You have no idea what you're talking about do you....you're rather like a mile wide and an inch deep. And yet you still wonder why your version of conservatism cannot gain political traction...even though it's "unmovable".Apparently you didn't look them up. **nononono*
@roamer_1
@DCPatriot
I guess there's "no place to go' if politics is your entire life, but if it is, you need a break, anyway.
No worries @CatherineofAragon ... @DCPatriot has a rather full life. ^-^
Apparently you didn't look them up. **nononono*
Apparently you didn't look them up.
Why? Based on everything the conservative geniuses here write there are 720 versions of everything "immovable" . . . from fornication to immigration to taxation. I wanted your version ... but apparently you don't have one.I am no clairvoyant. You never said you wanted my version. And somehow you blame me for that?
And somehow you blame me for this. @Smokin Joe :shrug:
Tried the Amazon thing, but the items were getting damaged on the UPS trucks before delivery.
Well, you beat me to that one. Nuff said.
888high58888
Well ., I'll give you the same reply: What's your version of the conservative "immovables" Based on everything written by conservatives here, there's a hell of a lot of confusion about this.For starters, part of it is in cursive. Are you up for that?
So, now's your chance .... Enlighten me @roamer_1 Consider it doing God's work.
Come on... give it your best damn shot. (And don't forget to ping me .... I'll look forward to your answer tomorrow)
@Freya
Because this thread needs more kitties...
(http://s12.postimg.org/o86wpxsbx/20170515_150734.jpg)
My guess is that he only did that to try to fool the non-thinking "evangelical Christians" who wanted to pretend he wasn't an amoral letch who sexually assaulted women on a regular basis.
Unfortunately, it worked, and for the most part "evangelicals" no longer have any moral authority.
I see how You are trying to hijack this Thread @rodamala and everyone already knows Trump does not like Cats or Dogs or Republicans.
Did you try the local mall?
That's a sad subject in my area. Our anchor store for the mall was a Montgomery Ward. A local Indian tribe claimed the housewares section was on sacred land and took it over. The store went out of business because 78% of their profits were from spatula sales. Now all we have for shopping is an old guy in a beat up Econoline van who moves hot merchandise every Tuesday morning. By the time I get there all the good stuff is usually gone.Careful, paleface! You didn't check out the goods inside? You can tell they are genuine. Carefully Handcrafted In Native America? Jugs And Pottery American Navajo?
Damn Indians.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2854653995_b91de0927e.jpg?v=0)
Well ., I'll give you the same reply: What's your version of the conservative "immovables" Based on everything written by conservatives here, there's a hell of a lot of confusion about this.
So, now's your chance .... Enlighten me @roamer_1 Consider it doing God's work.
Come on... give it your best damn shot. (And don't forget to ping me .... I'll look forward to your answer tomorrow)
For starters, part of it is in cursive. Are you up for that?
I remember that show, I saw the rerun last fall.Mr Haney did all right. He came out on every deal.
(https://dakiniland.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/cruz-as-mr-haney1.png?w=590)
That's a sad subject in my area. Our anchor store for the mall was a Montgomery Ward. A local Indian tribe claimed the housewares section was on sacred land and took it over. The store went out of business because 78% of their profits were from spatula sales. Now all we have for shopping is an old guy in a beat up Econoline van who moves hot merchandise every Tuesday morning. By the time I get there all the good stuff is usually gone.
Damn Indians.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2854653995_b91de0927e.jpg?v=0)
Not even Orange Kyptonite would have saved Sen. Cruz against the Trump onslaught, America was angry, and rightfully so but I'm gonna send him some of this, just in case, Belated Birthday (46):
He wants single payer.
How do you know it is his birthday? First off, he is Lyin' Ted so whatever he says it is, he is lying. Secondly the Canadian calendar is in metric, so whatever date he give you, you have to divide it by 64. Lastly I refer to the fact that he is called Lyin' Ted again.
Yep. Remember Trump telling us in the primaries that we weren't compassionate (have a heart) if we didn't support healthcare for everyone. Just a week or so didn't he comment how Australia (I think it was there) had better healthcare than us lowly Americans. He gloated over the Canadian healthcare in his book. How people missed this during the primaries is beyond me.People didn't 'miss' that, they forcibly ignored it, especially if someone pointed it out. Besides, if anyone mentioned Canada, the same people who poo-poohed "birthers" with the Kenyan went all Orly Taitz on Cruz.
It wasn't rocket science, Trump is a big government liberal and always was.
@Right_in_Virginia
People didn't 'miss' that, they forcibly ignored it, especially if someone pointed it out.
That scares the living $hit out of me Frank, I've seen you on your bad days, Jeez, I'd rather have a rectal examination from . . . .
@musiclady
Bingo
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. - Romans 3:8
YIKES! Edward Scissorhands became a proctologist?
(https://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/6a160996-da13-43d9-8c43-f305e8a8349d/490cd1bc-d402-46f7-813a-020a60d98292.jpg)
And I'd like rainbows and lollipops and sunshine and singing and ponies and ice cream and ..... (https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6SjsMCyFzloT6Jc4ZcTkuwEsEl)
For your sake and the sake of your family, I do hope you have a Plan B at the ready. @Hoodat .... You're going to need it.
"Rectal" has been banned? One of these days I have to quit my business so I can be here when this crazy stuff goes down.
I'm curious as to how you know this @Right_in_Virginia care to elaborate?
to set the record straight..... *****rollingeyes*****How prescient of you.
Yesterday, I was making a point that the NT-SOCONS would be an even SMALLER percentage of the Body Politic-Republican Party, and therefore would lose MORE of their power/voice.
....unless they were the "rectum"....a tiny part of the body that has an awful lot to say about how things will run.
And the ONLY reason I made that post was because he called me "garbage boy"
Just taking advantage of an unlocked "locked" thread that may as well be TBR's version of the TOS Undead Thread.
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/102/691/1298787074140.png)
How prescient of you.
@flowers, btw...when you go back to TOS and Jim is talking about the new server he needs money for, you might want to ask him what happened to the new server he bought about three years ago. The site crashed during every one of the 2012 debates, and on election night. He seemed really excited when he and John bought the thing.@CatherineofAragon I have wondered for YEARS where that money goes.
It sure didn't last long....
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #541 on: May 18, 2017, 08:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2017, 08:27:43 PM
There you go again. Get the "family" in town and trash the place threatening to tie people up. I'd love to see you try. That'd be a hoot.
You cannot be that obtuse! Can you @Smokin Joe ?
Both you and @INVAR are unable to grasp hyperbole....., uh-huh.
The smaller percentage of the whole [body] your ideological takes you, the less of a voice you have.
Unless you're the rectum, that is. *****rollingeyes*****
Modify message
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:35:19 PM by DCPatriot »
Later you quoted my reply, which I had already deleted:
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2017, 08:50:06 PM
Keep editing garbage boy.
Note the time stamps. My remark came after yours.
@CatherineofAragon I have wondered for YEARS where that money goes.
Note the time stamps. My remark came after yours.
to set the record straight..... *****rollingeyes*****
Yesterday, I was making a point that the NT-SOCONS would be an even SMALLER percentage of the Body Politic-Republican Party, and therefore would lose MORE of their power/voice.
....unless they were the "rectum"....a tiny part of the body that has an awful lot to say about how things will run.
And the ONLY reason I made that post was because he called me "garbage boy"
Was that before or after you advocated emulating Jihadists?
Thanks, @RoosGirl ! It's human nature to want to remember the other person as at fault, whether they were or not. I had deleted my comment, but it had been snagged for posterity. Even so, it was a response, not a provocation. The time stamps set the record straight.
I get that people will believe their own lies so that they feel better about themselves and why they believe and do certain things. But when they expect us to believe their lies it's just perplexing and sad and a hassle. But, good for you for being willing to call them to task. It takes effort, but is worth it.
@flowersYou mean they don't even send out for pizza or chinese or something?
Well let me end the mystery for you. Much of it goes in Jim's pocket, some goes in John's pocket, and the change that's left over goes to purchase bandwidth and for equipment maintenance/replacement.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Was that before or after you advocated emulating Jihadists?
:whistle:
....against the corporate media.
Not "....beheading women and children". Not literally tying anyone up and locking them in a trunk.
Growing weary of your shtick.
You should 'see' yourself.
Today, you're tossing the Noob remark around. But you were the one squealing like a stuck pig, when I used in on your when you first arrived all full of piss and vinegar. ...telling me the number of posts you have mean nothing.
Then, the other day, who else but @mystery-ak herself, had to tell you to lay off the newcomers and make them feel welcome.
Again, it was you who ran to get in anyone's face who.....
....treated you exactly the way you were treating them.
Look up 'irony'.
:whistle:DC, you're a good enough writer that you shouldn't have to be trumpsplaining yourself all over the place. Just tighten up the rhetoric, willya?
....against the corporate media.
Not "....beheading women and children". Not literally tying anyone up and locking them in a trunk.
Growing weary of your shtick.
You should 'see' yourself.
Today, you're tossing the Noob remark around. But you were the one squealing like a stuck pig, when I used in on your when you first arrived all full of piss and vinegar. ...telling me the number of posts you have mean nothing.
Then, the other day, who else but @mystery-ak herself, had to tell you to lay off the newcomers and make them feel welcome.
Again, it was you who ran to get in anyone's face who.....
....treated you exactly the way you were treating them.
Look up 'irony'.
After.
Much after.
Bigly.
DC, you're a good enough writer that you shouldn't have to be trumpsplaining yourself all over the place. Just tighten up the rhetoric, willya?
No worries @CatherineofAragon ... @DCPatriot has a rather full life. ^-^
You mean they don't even send out for pizza or chinese or something?Cheapskates. Wow, such austerity! :silly:
Lol!!!
But.... in their defense... do you have any idea how expensive ordering pizza in California is these days? And with donations down.....
@Right_in_Virginia
That wasn't for him, but for anyone he thinks might feel they have "no place to go".
I don't see how that applies in the context it was used.
My future has an expanded Republican Party, due to the Democratic Party's shift to the Left, fostering division and class identity politics.
It's a gift for God. And Donald Trump will be the beneficiary. The shrill SOCON/NT will not be in any position to dictate the platform/agenda.
They can add their two cents just like everybody else.
Where else are they going to go with their vote? The moderate DEM came running to Donald Trump. And will continue to do so.
I don't see how that applies in the context it was used.
My future has an expanded Republican Party, due to the Democratic Party's shift to the Left, fostering division and class identity politics.
It's a gift for God. And Donald Trump will be the beneficiary. The shrill SOCON/NT will not be in any position to dictate the platform/agenda.
They can add their two cents just like everybody else.
Where else are they going to go with their vote? The moderate DEM came running to Donald Trump. And will continue to do so.
That's what I meant, @CatherineofAragon ^-^
And THAT ladies and gentlemen is the recipe of how the GOP was taken over by the Democrat Party and their entire Big Government Agenda accepted as platform policy.
Congratulations. You have stumbled onto the why of how we arrived at a Uniparty Oligarchy.
Enjoy your swim in Socialism with a bunch of 'R's floating around the pool.
I write 'on the go'.You have a nice day, there, too, peaches. Bless your heart!
I communicate on the forum in a conversational style. Too old to change.
Only even here because I'm sick and tired of all you very intelligent people seemingly unable to grasp hyperbole and nuance, and instead, grab one word, and make a backyard squirrel out it.
Don't much like being the 'prey' around here anymore than you would.
You're all FOS.
I don't see how that applies in the context it was used.
My future has an expanded Republican Party, due to the Democratic Party's shift to the Left, fostering division and class identity politics.
It's a gift for God. And Donald Trump will be the beneficiary. The shrill SOCON/NT will not be in any position to dictate the platform/agenda.
They can add their two cents just like everybody else.
Where else are they going to go with their vote? The moderate DEM came running to Donald Trump. And will continue to do so.
That's what I meant, @CatherineofAragon ^-^
Good post there. I would only add that the Party needs to make sure they aren't losing people out the back flap of the tent as they bring new ones in. A classic conundrum, and the danger posed when one starts saying STFU to people who have been loyal to the Party their whole lives (and I'm NOT saying you're doing that...pretty much to the contrary).
And THAT ladies and gentlemen is the recipe of how the GOP was taken over by the Democrat Party and their entire Big Government Agenda accepted as platform policy.
Congratulations. You have stumbled onto the why of how we arrived at a Uniparty Oligarchy.
Enjoy your swim in Socialism with a bunch of 'R's floating around the pool.
Good post there. I would only add that the Party needs to make sure they aren't losing people out the back flap of the tent as they bring new ones in. A classic conundrum, and the danger posed when one starts saying STFU to people who have been loyal to the Party their whole lives (and I'm NOT saying you're doing that...pretty much to the contrary).
And THAT ladies and gentlemen is the recipe of how the GOP was taken over by the Democrat Party and their entire Big Government Agenda accepted as platform policy.@INVAR @Bigun But... didn't you see, we're the ones "FOS" (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?action=post;quote=1328373;topic=263143.650;last_msg=1328463). You are entirely right, that's how we got here, and there are those good with that. No wonder they 'don't need our support or want our support'. They're democrats, they just don't know it yet.
Congratulations. You have stumbled onto the why of how we arrived at a Uniparty Oligarchy.
Enjoy your swim in Socialism with a bunch of 'R's floating around the pool.
@INVAR @Bigun But... didn't you see, we're the ones "FOS" (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?action=post;quote=1328373;topic=263143.650;last_msg=1328463). You are entirely right, that's how we got here, and there are those good with that. No wonder they 'don't need our support or want our support'. They're democrats, they just don't know it yet.
{{{{{{{{{Sigh!!!}}}}}}}}}}}}}}I'm fresh out of olive branches. Time to cut down the trunk and start swinging it.
I'm fresh out of olive branches. Time to cut down the trunk and start swinging it.:amen: :amen: and :amen:
@Right_in_Virginia
That wasn't for him, but for anyone he thinks might feel they have "no place to go".
Nonsense, @INVAR
While the Republican Party will get bloated with Blue Dogs, their grown children will witness the economic and defensive improvements as they get ready to vote for the 1st time.
True...the coming amnesty of sorts...whatever...eventually, those 30 million in the shadows will be voting.
They are the new elusive 'independent" vote....that 20% that could go supposedly either way.
Again, I say, they've been working and living in the shadows but they're not blind either.
My money is on the Republican Party.
A compassionate conservative party when compared to the Communists on the Left.
Proof that dreams of utopia don't just live within the Democrat party.
Good luck with all that, considering the principles you and your pro-Trump compatriots have sh*t on have no place in your party.
Oh.... you added the 'Compassionate Conservative' to the recipe.
We saw what that really meant with Bush.
Enjoy your new "moderate" Democrat Party.
@DCPatriot
Okay, I see what you meant. My mistake. 888oops888
If the alternative Party is a National Worker's Socialist....I certainly will.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9alville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9alville)
I live in 'Realville'.
If the alternative Party is a National Worker's Socialist....I certainly will.
I live in 'Realville'.
@Right_in_Virginia
For you alone my dear!
I'll say again ... I agree with the basic conservative principles: minimal government interference, a return to Federalism, a strong national and global defense, including law and order at home and defined, protected borders. I am for freedom of speech, for all opinions, the elimination of protected classes of citizenship, and a slaying of the victim mentality and a return to personal responsibility (although I don't know how we legislate this). On social issues, I stand firmly behind the rights of the unborn.
The other social issues ... I am not inclined to fight. Fighting gives them a spotlight and prestige they do not deserve. These other social issues are not a political battle worth more blood and deeper isolation. We should teach our children, set an example-- but not demand a candidate support part of the government's role is to enforce our personal beliefs--as deeply held at they may be.
I think everything that was listed in the post I responded to is the endgame---hence my rainbows and lollipops reply. There is no magic wand or magic candidate to bring all that about.
But it was Donald Trump, not Ted Cruz, not Jeb Bush, not Rand Paul, not Marco Rubio, not Ben Carson, not Chris Christie, not John Kasich, not Carly Fiorina, not Scott Walker, not Lindsey Graham, not Bobby Jindal, not Rick Santorum, not Mike Huckabee, not George Pataki and not Jim Gilmore - - - who figured out a way to get us back on the field and in the game.
"Conservatives" can hate the coach, even hate the ones who support him, but that's not a good enough reason not to pull with the team and help the President win as many games as we can.
So, please, enough with the demands for conservative purity and immediate results. Enough with holding on to a hurt from nearly a year ago. It was politics. If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
@Right_in_Virginia
It was politics. If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
Two way street there RIV!!!! Who is the one whining about witch hunts?
@Right_in_Virginia
For as long as Trump continues to move the ball toward those conservative ideals I'm all in! The instant he signs on to something like single payer health insurance I run like hell for the exit!
Two way street there RIV!!!! Who is the one whining about witch hunts?
Your question has nothing to do with my post. :seeya:
@catfish1957
"Conservatives" can hate the coach, even hate the ones who support him, but that's not a good enough reason not to pull with the team and help the President win as many games as we can.
So, please, enough with the demands for conservative purity and immediate results. Enough with holding on to a hurt from nearly a year ago. It was politics. If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
And in five years you will get the pleasure of making a binary choice between either Mao's Party or Mussolini's Party.Another 'over-the-top' generalization.
Have fun... in "Realville".
"Conservatives" can hate the coach, even hate the ones who support him, but that's not a good enough reason not to pull with the team and help the President win as many games as we can.
I'll say again ... I agree with the basic conservative principles: minimal government interference, a return to Federalism, a strong national and global defense, including law and order at home and defined, protected borders. I am for freedom of speech, for all opinions, the elimination of protected classes of citizenship, and a slaying of the victim mentality and a return to personal responsibility (although I don't know how we legislate this). On social issues, I stand firmly behind the rights of the unborn.
The other social issues ... I am not inclined to fight. Fighting gives them a spotlight and prestige they do not deserve. These other social issues are not a political battle worth more blood and deeper isolation. We should teach our children, set an example-- but not demand a candidate support part of the government's role is to enforce our personal beliefs--as deeply held at they may be.
I think everything that was listed in the post I responded to is the endgame---hence my rainbows and lollipops reply. There is no magic wand or magic candidate to bring all that about.
But it was Donald Trump, not Ted Cruz, not Jeb Bush, not Rand Paul, not Marco Rubio, not Ben Carson, not Chris Christie, not John Kasich, not Carly Fiorina, not Scott Walker, not Lindsey Graham, not Bobby Jindal, not Rick Santorum, not Mike Huckabee, not George Pataki and not Jim Gilmore - - - who figured out a way to get us back on the field and in the game.
"Conservatives" can hate the coach, even hate the ones who support him, but that's not a good enough reason not to pull with the team and help the President win as many games as we can.
So, please, enough with the demands for conservative purity and immediate results. Enough with holding on to a hurt from nearly a year ago. It was politics. If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.
You "legislate" personal responsibilty by ending gov't incentive for being irresponsible.
YES!!!!
You "legislate" personal responsibilty by ending gov't incentive for being irresponsible.
You "legislate" personal responsibilty by ending gov't incentive for being irresponsible.
Sounds simple. Which incentive would you start with? @RoosGirl And then what should be next?
Thanks.
You "legislate" personal responsibilty by ending gov't incentive for being irresponsible.
mere Republcan-ism
Most intelligent statement I have read on this website today.
But neither the dems nor repubs are interested in doing that because then people will think they're just a bunch of meanies and won't vote for them.
Most intelligent statement I have read on this website today.
CORRECTAMUNDO!
The fact that their side is ignorant of this basic truth illustrates clearly that they are enemies of Conservatism.
Sounds simple. Which incentive would you start with? @RoosGirl And then what should be next?
Thanks.
First thing, stop giving food stamps to fat people. Duh.
Who are the enemies of Conservatism @Hoodat ?
Non starter. The people who get the incentives will vote against you, so this approach is stymied.
Non starter. The people who get the incentives will vote against you, so this approach is stymied.
Where do you start @DiogenesLamp ? Where do you stop?
Yup. There's a famous quote about what happens to a Democracy when people figure out they can vote themselves largess out of the Treasury.
It's been said a multitude of times previously!
Of course there is the alternative approach - go full Democrat.
So what? @roamer_1 ... Are you going to let "Republican" prevent you from being heard? Having a chance at governing? Maybe even winning the big prize some day?
You're not big enough for a team in the majors ... you've got to join one.
Or maybe not. Maybe all this whining and bit*^hing and lashing out in fear and anger works for you and is enough for you.
Sounds simple. Which incentive would you start with? @RoosGirl And then what should be next?
Thanks.
Then, maybe you can tell me @Bigun the government incentive you remove first ... and when you know you've removed enough.
These are serious questions. I've heard this talking point for years, Bigun. It's been throw out by anyone trying to claim the Reagan mantle to a near orgasmic reception by SOME conservatives. It's not new. And since it's always DOA, it's really not intelligent to keep pushing for the same failed approach.
No one else is even listening. Maybe explaining what you would remove and when you would stop would go a long way to changing this.
If this matters to you. :shrug:
Thanks.
It's not new. And since it's always DOA, it's really not intelligent to keep pushing for the same failed approach.
To me, this attitude is just handwringing and whining by people who are too lazy or don't have the backbone to stand up and do the right thing; the same people who are afraid of being called meanies for laying some tough love out. They're cowards for being willing to allow the can to be kicked down the road and letting someone else reap the consequences when the bottom finally does fall out.
#1 on my list would be to stop the practice of having more illegitimate babiessimply in order to get a bigger check from uncle sugar!
And I would throw out citizenship for anchor babies That would stop the one infant born here from becoming a free ticket for 3 generations of relatives getting to stay in the US and hop on the taxpayer gravy train
And I would throw out citizenship for anchor babies That would stop the one infant born here from becoming a free ticket for 3 generations of relatives getting to stay in the US and hop on the taxpayer gravy train
And I would throw out citizenship for anchor babies That would stop the one infant born here from becoming a free ticket for 3 generations of relatives getting to stay in the US and hop on the taxpayer gravy train
right.
But it boils down, and always will boil down, to repenting of this absurd and unsustainable lifestyle.
Laws are made for the lawless. laws are always control. the more laws, the more control. That is why decadence leads invariably to tyranny.
1. End all tax credits. If you don't pay the tax you don't get jack.
2. Place a 5-year limit on welfare. If you get off welfare, then you can start paying the government back to build your limit back up.
3. Stop rewarding single mothers for being single mothers.
4. End the SS ponzi scheme and replace it with actual investment.
5. End the government student loan monopoly.
You are going to have to explain further what you mean by this. Are you saying "Give up and join the inevitable team."
And which one of these are you going to be able to get through the Congress and get the President to sign?
That is an issue that needs fighting out in court. I firmly believe that the children of non citizens who happen to be born on our soil are not automatically citizens today.
The more laws, the more loopholes. The more loopholes, the more lawyers. The more lawyers, the less personal responsibility.
And which one of these are you going to be able to get through the Congress and get the President to sign?
Uh, no. That's what you are saying. I'll stick to what I believe in instead of embracing Democrat values because it gets me elected.
With Trump, none. But then Trump isn't a Conservative.
You make an interesting point there, @Bigun. Much of the trouble we have today with policy is a result of court decisions. Many attempts to remedy the problems have been thwarted by other court decisions. President Trump can't turn around without having his decisions set aside by courts, on legal grounds that should never have been even considered ("Well, he said such-and-such in the campaign, so obviously the policy is racist!").:amen: :beer:
Until the courts are placed back in their proper place in the system, and no longer be considered a super legislature, we will never get things fixed. It's too easy for a guy in a robe on a bench to become a petty tyrant. He has every incentive to go wild.
You make an interesting point there, @Bigun. Much of the trouble we have today with policy is a result of court decisions. Many attempts to remedy the problems have been thwarted by other court decisions. President Trump can't turn around without having his decisions set aside by courts, on legal grounds that should never have been even considered ("Well, he said such-and-such in the campaign, so obviously the policy is racist!").
Until the courts are placed back in their proper place in the system, and no longer be considered a super legislature, we will never get things fixed. It's too easy for a guy in a robe on a bench to become a petty tyrant. He has every incentive to go wild.
It doesn't matter. The courts will simply overturn any law we care to pass.
Neither is congress, so whence your ideas?
Could we perhaps ask that you suggest ideas which are possible?
Neither is congress, so whence your ideas?
Could we perhaps ask that you suggest ideas which are possible?
And how do you fix this? You appoint non-kook judges. You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges, and in the case between Trump and Hillary, it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges.
All are possible when we elect Conservatives. Unfortunately, that didn't happen this last Presidential election.
It wouldn't even get that far. You couldn't have gotten the congress to pass any of those submitted ideas.
Two and five. The idea of 'workfare' has been breached before to reduce endless dependency and return welfare to a safety net and not a vocation. Five years gets the one in the crib to preschool or Kindergarten. Then its time for mom to get (back?) to work. If she needs to update/improve her skill set, there are five years to do that through adult ed/GED and community college programs.
And which one of these are you going to be able to get through the Congress and get the President to sign?
All are possible when we elect Conservatives.
Unfortunately, that didn't happen this last Presidential election.
Better yet start with the measures that Trump campaigned for. Get as much of that done as possible.
Every man who gets on a court can become a kook Judge. Lord Acton's rule applies. The power of the courts must be curtailed, because no matter what person you put in the robe, eventually he will expand his tyranny to fit the available power.
Congress is the only body that can put limits on the courts by limiting their jurisdiction, and Congress isn't willing to do that for the same reason they won't rein in zealous bureaucrats: They rely on the courts and bureaucrats to do the things Congress wants without Congress taking any of the blame. Long story short, Congressmen are incentivized to be chickens.
Media. It is a constant left wing wind blowing against the politics of the nation, and till it is addressed, we will continue to blow in that direction.
Two and five. The idea of 'workfare' has been breached before to reduce endless dependency and return welfare to a safety net and not a vocation. Five years gets the one in the crib to preschool or Kindergarten. Then its time for mom to get (back?) to work. If she needs to update/improve her skill set, there are five years to do that through adult ed/GED and community college programs.
Student loans: get the government out. The bankers would love a source of income, open it up to private investment and you'll do away with six year four year degrees in 'studies' programs that have very limited employment potential. I'm not saying to let the banks choose majors, but let them set interest rates and let loans based on the probability of repayment, much like the sort of risk assessment insurance companies. Engineering? High GPA? lower rates. Grievance studies? Low GPA? higher rates. This would encourage STEM studies, and better scholarship, which lead to better jobs and salaries more likely for the bank to get paid back.
That is not happening, and has not been happening for quite some time. What do you propose to do to make such a thing happen? Remember, you can't enact any of your suggestions till *AFTER* you get the election of Conservatives to happen.
Do you not see the systemic flaws in your approach?
It took more than a half century for LBJ'S "great society" to bring us to this point and will take at least half that long to correct even if a concerted effort is undertaken to do it.
There is an alternative, but it requires catching federal judges performing acts which can lead to their impeachment. I would guess that the Judges who rendeer the most liberal decisions may do so because of their sympathy with those committing the acts against the laws they place a stay upon.
And how do you fix this? You appoint non-kook judges. You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges, and in the case between Trump and Hillary, it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges.
That is what voters in effect, authorized. Do that, they see results, then move to other items.
Yes. If you can't make big sweeping bites into the problem, make whatever bites you can.
And how do you fix this? You appoint non-kook judges. You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges, and in the case between Trump and Hillary, it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges.
It took more than a half century for LBJ'S "great society" to bring us to this point and will take at least half that long to correct even if a concerted effort is undertaken to do it.
There is an alternative, but it requires catching federal judges performing acts which can lead to their impeachment. I would guess that the Judges who rendeer the most liberal decisions may do so because of their sympathy with those committing the acts against the laws they place a stay upon.
Whether that sympathy crosses the line into actual illegal behaviour on their part is the question, and if it does, that may be cause for impeachment, especially if proven behaviour prior to placing a stay on any given law or executive order antedates the stay, and occurs within the time the law is in effect.
For all practical purposes, stopping a law from being enforced because they (or someone who is related, or with whom there is a fiscal or other connection) have broken the law could be an avenue of approach. It is difficult, however to prove that situation, but if so, that may be a battle plan.
Those bites are listed elsewhere on this forum. There were roughly 80 promises, some of which are a good idea, some of which are not. Unfortunately, in the midst of all the Russian kerfuffle Tillerson signed onto what amounts to a committment to the Paris Accords, and the ethanol mandate will be kept. Despite appointing an EPA chief who doesn't believe in AGW, Tillerson's actions effectively negate much of the potential progress that can be made.
Yes. If you can't make big sweeping bites into the problem, make whatever bites you can.
I don't know if it's possible, given an infinite amount of time and effort.
We've reached a point where the Gibsmedat crowd can outvote the producers at will. That's why I felt physically ill after the 2012 election, because I knew that we'd passed the tipping point where the people figured out they could just vote themselves cash from the government pot.
It's why this form of government is only workable with a moral population. People will resist looting the treasury only if their morals prohibit theft, and there are far too many people now perfectly happy to live off the earnings of others by stealing it, using government as the agent of force.
The reason congress is unwilling to do their jobs is that most of them are lawyers first and would love to become either a K street lobbyist or a judge upon their retirement from congress.
There are currently 120 vacancies on the Federal Bench. How many has Trump filled?
I think it could still fly, but it has to be packaged right. It has to be sold as benefiting the minority and other communities which are the recipients, and cannot ever be allowed to be portrayed as a racial issue, because the fiscal solvency of the nation isn't a racial issue.
The time when that approach would have worked I think is now past. We have a different set of demographics than we did in 1995, and so I don't think you could get work fare through congress today.
It is what makes liberal professors 'elites', there is no way universities could afford their crap otherwise. Especially by pushing the STEM aspect, an "Invest in America" campaign could take root.
This is a more plausible idea. Of all the ones mentioned, this is the closest to possible, but I still think the current congress wouldn't do it, and would claim to not even see the need to do it.
But we can nibble at this apple several different ways, and I think we need to do some of that.
Texas' efforts to create a $10,000.00 degree program is exactly the sort of thing we need to be doing. Also credentializing the Khan Academy and others like it would take some of the money out of "Higher" education.
The Selling of credentials at exorbitant prices is a long ongoing scam in this nation, and we need to be draining the profit out of it.
Yes, the systemic flaw is in repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.888high58888 I have been saying for years that that 'R' does not mean they are conservative. Chris Christie proved that a long time ago.
Republicans.
Better to begin again elsewhere, with those who would actually fulfill their promises.
Where the party platform actually means something.
And where candidates actually believe in their causes.
In my vast experience, you will get *nothing* from the GOP.
And you will get nothing from Trump.
Relying upon people absent of character will never yield results
Ethanol will continue destroying small engines where people haven't figured out how to get it out of the fuel and can't get ethanol free fuel. Some form of cap and trade remains a possibility. There is little advantage to building oil pipelines when the very market comes under attack by the same administration's actions.
888high58888 I have been saying for years that that 'R' does not mean they are conservative. Chris Christie proved that a long time ago.
We need to close down the Congressional office buildings and allow for Congressional offices to be placed inside each Congressman' Congressional district, and Senate offices in their corresponding State capital. They can use Webex to cast votes. No more K-street. No more influence.
The problem is that Trump's popularity and successful election proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that not even Republicans want to correct the vile actions and consequences of LBJ's "great society."What gets me is that we rejected the idea of an autocratic fellow from New York when Giuliani didn't get the nomination. Chief points of opposition were that he'd want to govern by decree, and now we have what we have. Maybe Rudy just didn't have a pretty enough wife, or enough gold trim...
We are in a tiny minority here, and the majority of Republicans are scoffing at us because we still believe what we believed 50 years ago.
I don't know how we right this ship with the mentality we see in Trump's supporters.....
I don't know why it's impossible to get people to understand Ethanol simply doesn't carry enough BTUs of energy to be a replacement for Gasoline. When the point of persuasion was "Better smog control," it made more sense than this business of "Eliminate oil." I don't know how many times I pointed out there isn't enough biomass in the world to replace Oil for fuel, nobody seems to get the point.
Had a liberal friend on the phone one day and he asked me about energy, and I said, "It's stupid to burn our food, and moving the tailpipe from our car to a power plant somewhere by driving an electric car is equally stupid." It's racist to boot, because they don't put power plants in the backyards of people with money and political power.
Yep. All debate and voting can be live streamed. With today's technology they can stay in district 100% of the time. K-Street would still be in the mix, but it would make it a bit more difficult. Congressional offices can be sold to universities for offices, classrooms, dorms, etc. the Capitol building can be taken over by parks and some money could be made on tourism. Also, we need to drastically curb office expenses. One secretary per Congress person. Okay, maybe two per senator. That's it. All other personnel must be paid for by the Congress person. Hell, let's go ahead and ration office supplies while we're at it. They need to operate on shoe strings.
I don't know why it's impossible to get people to understand Ethanol simply doesn't carry enough BTUs of energy to be a replacement for Gasoline. When the point of persuasion was "Better smog control," it made more sense than this business of "Eliminate oil." I don't know how many times I pointed out there isn't enough biomass in the world to replace Oil for fuel, nobody seems to get the point.Agreed. Unfortunately, the antidote for ethanol in fuel is water. Mix enough in the gas to absorb the alcohol, then let the water settle and decant the gasoline with a lot less alcohol. Which will mean people dumping contaminated water down drains, in sewers, on the ground...
Had a liberal friend on the phone one day and he asked me about energy, and I said, "It's stupid to burn our food, and moving the tailpipe from our car to a power plant somewhere by driving an electric car is equally stupid." It's racist to boot, because they don't put power plants in the backyards of people with money and political power.
I like asking libs why they would want a coal powered car.
They'll just tell you they don't want coal generating electricity, they want wind farms to chew up endangered birds instead.Are there any stats on how the solar cookers are doing?
Check this out:
(https://www.fws.gov/cno/es/calcondor/condor-2010-2014-640px.jpg)
The population of California Condors in the wild was on the rise until 2012, and is now collapsing. Why? Wind farms.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the antidote for ethanol in fuel is water. Mix enough in the gas to absorb the alcohol, then let the water settle and decant the gasoline with a lot less alcohol. Which will mean people dumping contaminated water down drains, in sewers, on the ground...
unintended consequences and all that.
Are there any stats on how the solar cookers are doing?
I like that. "You want a new pencil? Sure! Bring me your old one and I'll trade." Same for Gucci loafers. I really hate the ones with the little tassels on them. Who needs shoestrings, anyway?
I like that. "You want a new pencil? Sure! Bring me your old one and I'll trade." Same for Gucci loafers. I really hate the ones with the little tassels on them. Who needs shoestrings, anyway?
I don't know why it's impossible to get people to understand Ethanol simply doesn't carry enough BTUs of energy to be a replacement for Gasoline. When the point of persuasion was "Better smog control," it made more sense than this business of "Eliminate oil." I don't know how many times I pointed out there isn't enough biomass in the world to replace Oil for fuel, nobody seems to get the point.
Had a liberal friend on the phone one day and he asked me about energy, and I said, "It's stupid to burn our food, and moving the tailpipe from our car to a power plant somewhere by driving an electric car is equally stupid." It's racist to boot, because they don't put power plants in the backyards of people with money and political power.
Uh, no, I'm not falling for that non-rational BS. The question was in regarding the Conservative approach to dissuading irresponsible behavior. It is disingenuous to support liberal Republicans at the expense of Conservative ones, and then criticize Conservative Republicans for not being in position to enact Conservative legislation.
You supported Trump. You got what you paid for. You told Conservatives you didn't need us. So live with it. I've told you what Conservatives should do. You clearly reject it. So enjoy your future as Democrat-lite. By next election, the voters will figure it out and go for the real thing instead of the imitation. And you will again be blaming Conservatives because they didn't want to sell their souls for short-lived political expediency.
I don't know if it's possible, given an infinite amount of time and effort.
We've reached a point where the Gibsmedat crowd can outvote the producers at will. That's why I felt physically ill after the 2012 election, because I knew that we'd passed the tipping point where the people figured out they could just vote themselves cash from the government pot.
It's why this form of government is only workable with a moral population. People will resist looting the treasury only if their morals prohibit theft, and there are far too many people now perfectly happy to live off the earnings of others by stealing it, using government as the agent of force.
The problem is that Trump's popularity and successful election proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that not even Republicans want to correct the vile actions and consequences of LBJ's "great society."
We are in a tiny minority here, and the majority of Republicans are scoffing at us because we still believe what we believed 50 years ago.
I don't know how we right this ship with the mentality we see in Trump's supporters.....
That is what voters in effect, authorized. Do that, they see results, then move to other items.
Customer walks in, says I want a car. You don't veer off and try to sell them a hot air balloon, pumped full of rhetoric and philosophy.
I don't know if it's possible, given an infinite amount of time and effort.
We've reached a point where the Gibsmedat crowd can outvote the producers at will. That's why I felt physically ill after the 2012 election, because I knew that we'd passed the tipping point where the people figured out they could just vote themselves cash from the government pot.
It's why this form of government is only workable with a moral population. People will resist looting the treasury only if their morals prohibit theft, and there are far too many people now perfectly happy to live off the earnings of others by stealing it, using government as the agent of force.
In fact it was Liberal Republicans from the North East that caused it. LBJ just outsmarted them.
Not the majority, just a very powerful minority of them.
You are worrying about Trump supporters when you should be far more worried about Hillary supporters. They won't go away if you manage to help them defeat Trump, they will only get stronger.
And they really are mentally ill.
Liberals Are An Inferno Of Flaming Crazy And We Should Pour Gasoline On The Fire (https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/05/15/liberals-are-an-inferno-of-flaming-crazy-and-we-should-pour-gasoline-on-the-fire-n2326754)
What would that do to the detergents and no-knock additives?I don't know, frankly. It might remove some of them, too. Maybe @thackney knows.
And therein is the crux of the problem of which I don't think all of us here are aware.
The voting system has become a tool whereby the productive are put at the mercy of the parasite component of society, and I think it is very unlikely that a parasite will ever consent to being removed from it's host.
If we are to take back that which has been given to the parasites, it will have to be done slowly and likely with as much stealth as possible.
This is as close as I will ever get to Gucci loafers, and I thank God often for that.Nice looking boot! (Loafers? LOL!)
(http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/image/spin_prod_965227912)
Those bites are listed elsewhere on this forum. There were roughly 80 promises, some of which are a good idea, some of which are not. Unfortunately, in the midst of all the Russian kerfuffle Tillerson signed onto what amounts to a committment to the Paris Accords, and the ethanol mandate will be kept. Despite appointing an EPA chief who doesn't believe in AGW, Tillerson's actions effectively negate much of the potential progress that can be made.
Ethanol will continue destroying small engines where people haven't figured out how to get it out of the fuel and can't get ethanol free fuel. Some form of cap and trade remains a possibility. There is little advantage to building oil pipelines when the very market comes under attack by the same administration's actions.
As far as I am concerned, Gorsuch is the salient accomplishment, and the jury is still out on how he will rule.
Screw burning our food, we're burning our alcohol!I never drank any corn liquor smoother than a drywall rasp.
I have an idea. Conservatives need to step up and start running for the local school boards, or at least pay attention to who is running.
Ensure that the next generations are taught about American history (warts and all), our Constitution and why it was written as it is and the difference between what was intended and how it is being interpreted. Teach them the scientific method, logic, and to question and think for themselves. Teach them truth. and fire any teachers who put politics before knowledge. Teach them to be skeptical of the textbook/media/faceplant/etc, and look to the primary sources. Teach them about Ponzi schemes and the history of successful government interventions into markets.
Maybe we can't elect enough Conservatives to fix this mess. I certainly don't think we can. But since we're living large on their money, it seems to me we owe the future generations the opportunity to do so.
We need to close down the Congressional office buildings and allow for Congressional offices to be placed inside each Congressman' Congressional district, and Senate offices in their corresponding State capital. They can use Webex to cast votes. No more K-street. No more influence.
Congress has to authorize the funding. If they did that who would watch their kids, scrub their floors and mow their lawns, make their beds? They have skin in the game.
Very aptly put. If Trump makes some changes and people like them, then we move in that direction.
One of those changes better be a wall.
I think it could still fly, but it has to be packaged right. It has to be sold as benefiting the minority and other communities which are the recipients, and cannot ever be allowed to be portrayed as a racial issue, because the fiscal solvency of the nation isn't a racial issue.
It doesn't matter how big the check is if the dollars aren't worth anything, and that's where we are headed if we keep printing them.
It is what makes liberal professors 'elites', there is no way universities could afford their crap otherwise. Especially by pushing the STEM aspect, an "Invest in America" campaign could take root.
I have an idea. Conservatives need to step up and start running for the local school boards, or at least pay attention to who is running.So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.
Ensure that the next generations are taught about American history (warts and all), our Constitution and why it was written as it is and the difference between what was intended and how it is being interpreted. Teach them the scientific method, logic, and to question and think for themselves. Teach them truth. and fire any teachers who put politics before knowledge. Teach them to be skeptical of the textbook/media/faceplant/etc, and look to the primary sources. Teach them about Ponzi schemes and the history of successful government interventions into markets.
Maybe we can't elect enough Conservatives to fix this mess. I certainly don't think we can. But since we're living large on their money, it seems to me we owe the future generations the opportunity to do so.
That's why you have to repackage the whole thing as a 'benefit', not as a cut. Then, suddenly the whole racial component goes out the window. You could even have people on racially oriented websites complaining about another program to benefit a different demographic to help sell the idea.
I think this is wishful thinking for two reasons; That you think you can keep "racial" out of it by emphasizing it isn't racial but is instead "fiscal" and that you could even get this debate started in congress. Any attempt to cut benefits will be accused of being "racial" and Congress doesn't see the status quo as a problem.
Exactly the point. We ought to be breaking up this monopoly of control on Credentials. We should "Socialize" (Make them live under the socialism rules they try to force on others) the Socialists in the Universities who live like Tsars and preach to us "Peasants."Yep.
Make them poor, and they will acquire wisdom.
The real problem is the goodies they vote themselves from the government comes out of the pockets of the ever dwindling producers At some point atlas will shrug.
So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.
That's why you have to repackage the whole thing as a 'benefit', not as a cut. Then, suddenly the whole racial component goes out the window. You could even have people on racially oriented websites complaining about another program to benefit a different demographic to help sell the idea.
And what do you suppose happens at that point? Call me paranoid, but I believe it will be much bloodshed.
So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.I wonder how many of us even here, who really care about and follow politics, even remember who they voted for in the last school board election.
Likely so. When we can no longer produce at a rate to keep them happy things will get dicey...
Lots of Innuit have freezers, so obviously there is a market. "And you only have to plug it in 6 months out of the year if you set it on the porch...."
You better be able to sell freezers to Eskimos, cause that's the sort of salesmanship this is going to take.
And what do you suppose happens at that point? Call me paranoid, but I believe it will be much bloodshed.
Screw burning our food, we're burning our alcohol!
Very aptly put. If Trump makes some changes and people like them, then we move in that direction.
One of those changes better be a wall.
Lots of Innuit have freezers, so obviously there is a market. "And you only have to plug it in 6 months out of the year if you set it on the porch...."
What really needs to be reformed is the way people qualify for benefits, and how that changes. As is, if you make a dollar over your Medicaid cutoff, you're on your own. If you make too much, the SNAP goes away. There is a point where the benefits are not able to be replaced by minor increases in income, but those minor increases will cost all the benefits. That needs to be tapered to a more graduated transition, or it provides a disincentive to work harder. It was like working overtime (when a guy could get in overtime) and seeing it go to taxes after just a couple of hours. So, if the option was there, you only worked enough overtime to maximize the take-home, and not so much it cost you.
30 years ago (it hurts to be able to say that, I'm not THAT old am I???), I knew women who intentionally got pregnant at regular intervals. As long as they had a child under X years old, they got the free apartment and benefits for the whole clan. They discussed this quite openly.Living hand to mouth all the annualization in the world doesn't change the dip in cash flow. Making too much put a guy into the next bracket, which meant higher withholding rates and if you just crossed the threshhold, your take home pay actually got a little smaller than 40 hours worth. IIRC, and this was the '70s, the crossover point for me was 46 hours a week where the time and a half came in at less than regular pay by the time the taxes were taken out.
I have to say I never have understood the idea that overtime "costs you" at some point. At the end of the year, your taxes are based on AGI. The overtime bonus is taxed at exactly the same rate as your base income. My guess is that for some the additional income caused their employer to withhold more (I don't know how withholding works), but at the end of the year you made X and the feds want Y.
30 years ago (it hurts to be able to say that, I'm not THAT old am I???), I knew women who intentionally got pregnant at regular intervals. As long as they had a child under X years old, they got the free apartment and benefits for the whole clan. They discussed this quite openly.
I have to say I never have understood the idea that overtime "costs you" at some point. At the end of the year, your taxes are based on AGI. The overtime bonus is taxed at exactly the same rate as your base income. My guess is that for some the additional income caused their employer to withhold more (I don't know how withholding works), but at the end of the year you made X and the feds want Y.
Which is one of the many reasons taxing income is so antiethical for supposed free people. We should be taxing our consumption instead of our efforts!
?? Consumption of energy and goods? That would give Big Brother tremendous control over our lives. No tax or flat tax, period.
?? Consumption of energy and goods? That would give Big Brother tremendous control over our lives. No tax or flat tax, period.
Agreed. Flat tax. If it's good enough for God, it should be good enough for the US Treasury.
Besides, why expand the ATF to the ATF-and everything else sold under the sun.
If you are talking about a flat rate income tax it's no sale with me. No income tax period! Read the link in my tag line.
Then we will agree to disagree. I would rather have an employer with an incentive to account for taxes deducted from my income than to expand the power of government to provide incentive at the point of a gun to both buyer and seller.
I understand your point, really I do. I just prefer a flat tax on income over a national sales tax that invites a black market economy.
Texas has a very large economy and relies on a sales tax without any problems.
Texas has a very large economy and relies on a sales tax without any problems.
To tax consumable; we will be taxed to death. We already pay for electricity, water and food, etc. I don't want the government taxing me for using electricity and then taxing me again if I use too much. Same with water. Same with food, etc. I don't want to go to the grocery store and the government telling me I am only allotted 2 apples, 2 bananas, a gallon of milk a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and jelly and anything over that not only will I have to pay the taxes on but have to pay additional taxes for going over my allotment. I could go on, but point made.
To tax consumable; we will be taxed to death. We already pay for electricity, water and food, etc. I don't want the government taxing me for using electricity and then taxing me again if I use too much. Same with water. Same with food, etc. I don't want to go to the grocery store and the government telling me I am only allotted 2 apples, 2 bananas, a gallon of milk a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and jelly and anything over that not only will I have to pay the taxes on but have to pay additional taxes for going over my allotment. I could go on, but point made.
Right now there are chip readers on credit and debit cards ... they already know what you are purchasing, where you are purchasing, how much you are purchasing and the frequency of those purchases. Throw in a national ID card at the situation that you will have to use to be able to make everything you purchase and Big Brother will completely control your life. As an example, you won't be able to use more the 3 gallons of water a day without paying a penalty tax .... the list goes on, but I'm sure you get the point.
Flat tax of 10%. No state, federal, income or sales tax.
I have full confidence in the State of Texas collecting a sales tax without imposing undue tyranny upon its citizenry. I have zero confidence in a central government based in Maryland collecting a much greater portion of sales tax in Texas.
Tax consumption, not incomes. Don't punish savers.
Tax consumption, not incomes. Don't punish savers.
To tax consumable; we will be taxed to death. We already pay for electricity, water and food, etc. I don't want the government taxing me for using electricity and then taxing me again if I use too much. Same with water. Same with food, etc. I don't want to go to the grocery store and the government telling me I am only allotted 2 apples, 2 bananas, a gallon of milk a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and jelly and anything over that not only will I have to pay the taxes on but have to pay additional taxes for going over my allotment. I could go on, but point made.
Right now there are chip readers on credit and debit cards ... they already know what you are purchasing, where you are purchasing, how much you are purchasing and the frequency of those purchases. Throw in a national ID card at the situation that you will have to use to be able to make everything you purchase and Big Brother will completely control your life. As an example, you won't be able to use more the 3 gallons of water a day without paying a penalty tax .... the list goes on, but I'm sure you get the point.
Pay cash. Simple solution, 100% legal, and 100% untraceable.
@libertybeleThe problem I see with that is the government then stepping in, decrying 'hoarders', and making more laws. They're pushing us to go cashless, and some people are buying in. Not me, I like cash. It works, almost everyone will take it, no record of the transaction. But with tracking goods entirely possible, it could become illegal to stock up on a loss leader on sale at a store, which is how we buy things. It goes on sale, we know we'll use it, we hit it hard, and coupon it too, if we can while it is on sale. My wife shakes her head when I walk out of a store having bought $280 worth of groceries (normal prices) for $120, but she loves it and none of the stores around these parts have double coupon days or I'd really get out cheap.
I will agree with @Bigun .
The salient difference is in this: A flat RETAIL ONLY tax ties the goverment to the market. if things are going badly, it is suddenly in the interest pf the government to keep the economy going - without happy campers spending their money on consumables, the government gets nothing.
In the case of withholdings from your employer, the government couldn't give a rusty crap as to whether you have money to spend at the end or not. They get their rake right off the top, instead of getting their cut at the end.I agree, in that if there was a Federal Sales tax, Food, Water, medical care, primary housing, and energy for the home should be untaxed. No surtax on fuel, there is already a fuel tax. Taxes on new items only, and land is 'used', so no tax on land sales or existing homes. Tax building materials or new items constructed from recycled/repurposed materials, because the end product is 'new'. There are those who like 'prebate' schemes, but anytime the government issues a check there will be fraud. Just don't tax the essentials, and that whole bureaucracy is eliminated along with the potential for someone getting extra checks or stealing someone else's.
Now, I am for no tax on food items or medical items, making them basically write-off. I don't know if land and first homes should be exempt... But you get the basic idea.
No, I won't call you paranoid. Food riots and the like become a very real possibility. At that point, if a person hasn't already, there's a decision to make about just what lengths a person is willing to go to to protect their family, themselves, their stuff. It's pretty much a given the first ones up the walk will be unarmed women and/or hungry little children. Do you feed the kids who are likely scouts for adults, even larger groups? Or turn them all away proclaiming you don't have anything?
And what do you suppose happens at that point? Call me paranoid, but I believe it will be much bloodshed.
I don't know, frankly. It might remove some of them, too. Maybe @thackney knows.
@Cyber Liberty @Smokin JoeWell, this was for small engines (I really can't imagine doing it 35 gallons at a time). The ethanol will kill them anyway, I'd be willing to try it if I had to. The idea is that the water will settle out, and to separate the two before you use the fuel.
I'm going to say don't add water to your gasoline and leave it at that. I know I'll never do that to gasoline I run in my vehicles.
Honestly the Fed needs to set up a flat tax 10% for everyone.
Then leave it up to the states to determine tax rates...sales or income based to make up the difference based on their own budgetary needs. That way they have the money they need to spend.
This whole give everything to the Fed then wait like a bunch of baby birds with your mouth open waiting to get your share is stupid.
When will Republicans Dump Trump?
3:24 pm, August 14th, 2019
(You heard it here 1st)
Well, this was for small engines (I really can't imagine doing it 35 gallons at a time). The ethanol will kill them anyway, I'd be willing to try it if I had to. The idea is that the water will settle out, and to separate the two before you use the fuel.
Why? Enforcing illegal immigration laws already on the books will work just as well in the interim. The wall is an excuse for more funding, IMO. We don't really need it right now. Hell, what we need is to keep the Muslim extremists from entering our country via that Obama "refugee" program. If only...
Once in awhile you say something which I regard as sensible.
Well, this was for small engines (I really can't imagine doing it 35 gallons at a time). The ethanol will kill them anyway, I'd be willing to try it if I had to. The idea is that the water will settle out, and to separate the two before you use the fuel.
I saw Ethanol absolutely destroy a two-stroke engine once. Outboard motor.It did that for my father--a mile offshore. He's in his eighties and had to row in.
I appreciate that.
You know in the grand scheme of things there's probably only a couple of things we actually disagree on.
For me:I'll let my dad know. I'm in a market where I can readily get no ethanol fuel, but I'm 2K miles away.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/f3a8535d-6898-4566-ae5b-de22a2f056a3.jpg._CB291181255_.jpg)
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/sta-bil-marine-formula-ethanol-treatment-8-oz.-22239/7630013-P?searchTerm=sta-bil+marine+formula+ethanol+treatment+%288+oz.%29
For me:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/f3a8535d-6898-4566-ae5b-de22a2f056a3.jpg._CB291181255_.jpg)
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/sta-bil-marine-formula-ethanol-treatment-8-oz.-22239/7630013-P?searchTerm=sta-bil+marine+formula+ethanol+treatment+%288+oz.%29
I appreciate that.
You know in the grand scheme of things there's probably only a couple of things we actually disagree on.
I bet we do. I expect most of our disagreement are in the methods we see for accomplishing the grander scheme.
And that is the standard state of affairs on our side! We all want to get to the same place but spend all of our time arguing about which vehicle to ride in to get there!
I'll let my dad know. I'm in a market where I can readily get no ethanol fuel, but I'm 2K miles away.
That's because I know MINE is the only one that will work! Now get in the back! :chairbang:
Living in a high humidity environment, I also use:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/511IyYHDS7L._SX385_.jpg)
https://www.ruralking.com/justrite-5-gallon-safety-can.html
It is better to have something that will maintain a bit of vapor pressure inside the can and less exchange of humid air with day/night temperature changes.
@thackney
For my money, I am an Eagle man.
Eagle 5 gallon safety cans are in stock at my local mom & pop type, farm/hardware store, and amazingly... still made in the USA...
...and have not been sued out of existence by lawyers representing those that are left with sour grapes for not receiving the Darwin Award they intended to get.
I think Blitz is out of business because of that... and all plastic gas cans are now functionally impossible to use and frankly, more dangerous to use for people that don't go pouring gasoline on campfires.
http://www.safety1industries.com/product-reviews-blog/eagle-vs-justrite-gas-cans (http://www.safety1industries.com/product-reviews-blog/eagle-vs-justrite-gas-cans)
[...] all plastic gas cans are now functionally impossible to use and frankly, more dangerous to use for people that don't go pouring gasoline on campfires.
As an aside, if you have a local farm store, they sell an aftermarket retrofit kit that turns those plastic cans old-school again, vent and all... For around 10 bucks and a 5 minute mod, all is made well. Jussayin.All of mine are old school. Kept out of sunlight to cut UV degradation, and still work fine. The new ones are a mess, though.
All of mine are old school. Kept out of sunlight to cut UV degradation, and still work fine. The new ones are a mess, though.